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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:33 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
The ONLY reason I disagree with you is because the rookies and future incoming classes were not at the barganing table.

Of course, which is why the rookie wage scale is lower than it would have been if they were included. However, my point is that this is only one of many distortions.

NFL Teams and the union collude to set the salary cap, 53 man roster limit, guaranteed contracts, implications of bonuses on the salary cap and many other factors that prevent players from being paid "fair market value". Before fans complain about one distortion they need to seriously think about what the NFL would be like if they removed all of the limits and if teams actually simply paid their players based on current fair market value.

Would Wilson be making more or less money if the remaining 8 teams were competing to pay the best 8 QBs for Sunday? He may be earning millions for a single game, or finding himself making nothing when the Seahawks offered Brees $2 million for a single game check. Peyton Manning would probably only play home games, as mediocre teams would bid a lot of money to hire him for a single home game and drive up local interest. There would be no draft and teams in big cities would be able to afford the best players for the playoffs.

Fair market value has no consideration in the NFL because we fans think the sport is better when teams collude on stuff like salary caps and a rookie draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:28 pm 
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It is still fair market value - just a regulated market :) regulated by the NFL players and the owners....... The market isn't fair but what the players get paid is fair under those market conditions. In regards to rookies an unfair condition has been put in place limiting them compared to others in that same market place.

Not many employees are in a position where they could go from employeer one week to another next to a third the week after that so that they are limited to staying on a team while under contract is not something I see as unfair. Labor contracts are common place and so are non-compete clauses if you leave and that is really all it is.

We have different opinions but I don't know any other "distortions" within the labor agreement that all parties didn't agree on in a majority vote. This is the one item that distorts against the group excluded from voting. Kind of like current employees at my company voting to get rid of cleaning services and only have new hires do all the cleaning and meanwhile existing employees will get to split the savings on cleaning services.........

The only difference is that the incoming employees can either work for us or for peanuts in Canada


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:49 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
It is still fair market value - just a regulated market :) regulated by the NFL players and the owners....... The market isn't fair but what the players get paid is fair under those market conditions. In regards to rookies an unfair condition has been put in place limiting them compared to others in that same market place.

Not many employees are in a position where they could go from employeer one week to another next to a third the week after that so that they are limited to staying on a team while under contract is not something I see as unfair. Labor contracts are common place and so are non-compete clauses if you leave and that is really all it is.

We have different opinions but I don't know any other "distortions" within the labor agreement that all parties didn't agree on in a majority vote. This is the one item that distorts against the group excluded from voting. Kind of like current employees at my company voting to get rid of cleaning services and only have new hires do all the cleaning and meanwhile existing employees will get to split the savings on cleaning services.........

The only difference is that the incoming employees can either work for us or for peanuts in Canada


Don't most union contracts call for the newest employees to make the least, and aren't these contracts in place when new employees are hired? It's not like we are breaking some new kind of ground here with smaller contracts for new employees or having new employees come into a union with rules in place that they had no say so over.

The rule seems a bit unfair now, because none of the current vets had to work through a rookie scale. In a decade, most players will have done so, and the new guys will be seeing what the spoils are for their hard work under the rookie scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Rather than having something happen which would be a CBA violation and cost Seattle picks/money, I'm sure Wilson is getting taken care of with endorsements. (See the Levi commercial, for instance.)


Bingo! He has probably made more money already in endorsements than he has for playing football. After beating the Redskins his endorsement stock will sky rocket. Expect to see him in Nike commercials in the off- season.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Average NFL career is about 6 years if they make opening day's roster (the 3.5 number is lower than real numbers by all the people that gets cut early). This is very different than the normal union employee...... The Running back average is 2.57 under the same metric that the average is 3.5 so I am guessing that the average running back career is about 4.5 years or so if they make the opening day roster.

That first contract is 4 years - non negotiable for 3.

RW isn't going to complain. He will play all out for the rest of his career regardless. But the rookies got screwed and we will see many of them look fantastic for 1-2 years, get seriously injured and never have the big payday


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:39 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Average NFL career is about 6 years if they make opening day's roster (the 3.5 number is lower than real numbers by all the people that gets cut early). This is very different than the normal union employee...... The Running back average is 2.57 under the same metric that the average is 3.5 so I am guessing that the average running back career is about 4.5 years or so if they make the opening day roster.

That first contract is 4 years - non negotiable for 3.

RW isn't going to complain. He will play all out for the rest of his career regardless. But the rookies got screwed and we will see many of them look fantastic for 1-2 years, get seriously injured and never have the big payday


Russel Wilson, a third round draft pick put over a million in the bank from the Seahawks organization this year (before playoff checks). How is this being "screwed"? He was getting that million simply for being drafted, even if he didn't become the starter. Just as guys like Jemarcus Russell and other players "screwed" the NFL by taking huge paychecks and never doing a damn thing in their careers. At least Wilson and others can earn endorsement checks and have the chance to make even more money after the three years, but in the old system, tens of millions of cap room was getting tied up by players who never once stepped onto an NFL playing field. And many of these players further hurt their teams by holding out for those big paychecks which this CBA can no longer do.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Since you are in Anchorage we should just meet at Peanut farm and hash this out over a beer :)

Screwing used to be by players underperforming. Screwing now is by players overperforming their draft status. The system should have been corrected by metrics tied to the contract / performance bonus and they should be in the CBA to be equal. You would need to have them outside of the salary cap though which would be the major issue


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:24 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Since you are in Anchorage we should just meet at Peanut farm and hash this out over a beer :)

Screwing used to be by players underperforming. Screwing now is by players overperforming their draft status. The system should have been corrected by metrics tied to the contract / performance bonus and they should be in the CBA to be equal. You would need to have them outside of the salary cap though which would be the major issue


I think a simpler solution would be to renegotiate this at the next negotiation for a new CBA and make it so teams may (within the salary cap) put bonuses into the contracts based on level drafted. Say a first rounder would have to make the pro bowl as their contracts are already higher, but later round players can negotiate bonuses based on games started or minutes played over the course of a season or some other means of status, but honestly, it's only a small percentage of players who are on any extreme value charts because of this. There are still early rounders not earning the money they got to balance out the RW's of the draft who are being paid far too little for their value.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Russell has no injury worry... he can take out as big of a damned insurance policy on his career as he is comfortable in paying for. He can sit down with his financial guys and decide what his career is "worth" and buy a policy. That way if his "legs get ripped up" as stated above, then he collects on that policy. The team also has a policy on him and if he is hurt and never plays again, then they pay out the remainder of what he is owed, or reach an injury settlement (with him, it's likely he'd get the insurance payout as I am sure his contract is insured at this point).

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Those of you hoping Wilson doesn't bolt after his contract is up,,,,stop worrying. He already said he wants to spend his career as a Seahawk, and I believe him 100%

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