Note in regards to SoS Argument

First off, thanks for being fairly classy from what I've glossed over poring the forums. Big difference from the Aints fans we're used to, in that there's actual football discussion going on over here. About myself - I'm a young gun at 20, became a Falcon fan in 1997 because of my uncle, and I've only been a legitimate football fan since 2000, but I've bled the red and black ever since I watched Vick in 2001...naturally, that's a bit of a sore subject now, as it is with most Falcon fans. I've also always had a soft spot for two other teams in the NFL, those two being the Texans (lovable losers, cool uniforms, impressive what they've done in recent seasons) and the Seahawks (mainly for Shaun Alexander and the cool uniforms). Of course, I've grown up since then, and can form opinions that aren't based off of the uniform a team wears. The Seahawks are the media darlings now, and that's quite a difference from years past - congrats, you guys have earned it.

Now, back to the thread's intention - addressing the argument about strength of schedule. I could just make the same point that's been made by others, about how the 2005 Seahawks are comparable to the 2012 Falcons in terms of respect, but that's an eyeball test, and as such, I'm sure won't be respected a heck of a lot.

However, in our defense, while the strength of defensive opponents being last in the NFL looks bad on the surface, a large portion of that can also be attributed to the strength of offenses in our division. We have the 3rd, 7th, 13th and 18th ranked offenses in terms of points scored, and the 2nd, 8th, 9th and 12th ranked offenses in terms of yardage in the NFC South. When you factor in the fact that we're constantly playing each other as well as having 8 other common opponents in the AFC West and NFC East, it's no surprise that our entire division has an easy SoS when it comes to strength of defensive opponents.

In a way, it's like poking fun at the NFC West offenses for having the 9th, 11th, 25th and 31st ranked offenses in scoring and the 11th, 17th, 23rd, and 32nd ranked offenses in yardage. Sure, it makes them look mediocre to bad as a division when it comes to offense, but it's also due to playing better defenses in the NFC West. I've seen that very argument made right here on these boards. It's a large part of why your strength of schedule is considered tougher, as well.

Our defense has already been shown to be 5th in points scored against, with the 10th ranked SoS, so I won't beat that dead horse. They're underrated by pretty much everyone, but it's interesting to see some of the folks on your boards giving props to us. The difference between our defenses isn't nearly as cut and dry as one would believe. Yours is #1 in points scored against with the 15th ranked SoS. Obviously fantastic, so I won't talk much more on that either.

As another note, in regards to our offense, the fact is, stats are very easily skewed. For example, while the bridge between our offenses doesn't appear to be that great, with Atlanta having a slight to decent advantage (7th in points scored, 8th in yardage) over Seattle (9th in points scored, 17th in yardage), there's something to be said for consistency over inflation. Don't take this the wrong way - as I've stated, I like the Seahawks and keep up with them a decent bit - but your average points scored has been inflated tremendously, whereas the Falcons tend to like keeping the score around 30ish.

To illustrate this, the Falcons were only held under 20 points twice in the year - once against Dallas (19 points), and once in the meaningless last game of the year against the Bucs (17 points). With Dallas, we were playing in a tough environment and had constant failure in the red zone, whereas with the Bucs, we were obviously screwing around with plays, almost treating it like a preseason game, except with the starters in. On one occasion, we ran three screen plays in a row. I sh*t you not. It was testing things out, a very vanilla gameplan besides the fact, since it wasn't trick plays we were running - it was just stuff we wanted to practice.

On the other hand, the Seahawks were held under 20 points SIX times in the year. It did come earlier in the year, so the argument could be made that the Seahawks "clicked" and put it together along the stretch. While I think that's largely true, especially due to Russel Wilson's play, I think it also bears thinking that the stretch was also against their toughest opponents, which could have easily been the cause of the lower point output.

It should also be mentioned that the Seahawks average points per game is inflated by three games down the stretch with 42 or more points. This might be because Carroll likes to kick the weaker teams when they're down - seriously, he only runs up the score on the weaker opponents in the NFL. Conversely, the Seahawks only scored 30 or more points once besides those blowouts.

The Falcons, on the other hand, never scored over 42, despite outscoring their opponents in the first half by roughly 70 points over the season. The Falcons did, however, score 30 or more points five times on the season, and scored 27 three times as well.

This is not to take away from all the good the Seahawks have done - rather, just to provide an opposing fan's perspective, and maybe get some good feedback as well. Can't wait for the game on Sunday...good luck to both teams. Just...a bit more luck to ours.

Good write up and thanks.

And welcome aboard.

At least both teams will be playing on an actual NFL caliber field.

:les:

Good luck on Sunday, you'll need it j/k

Here is to a good, hardhitting game come Sunday. Should be a barnburner!

I appreciate the write up but have to refute the "running up the score" argument. Pete never ran up the score. Ever. And its such a BS term to begin with.

There are two example people cite when they say he ran up the score. The 4th and 23. And the Fake Punt. I will explain both.

The 4th and 23 came in the 4th Qtr when out entire first string on both sides of the ball were taken out. People have been screaming, that having Flynn throw it was trying to run up the score. Thats ludicrous. Firstly, any team going for it on 4th and 23 has about a 2% chance of success. Therefor, stopping the down would give AZ the ball closer to midfield then if we would have punted it. Second, the clock stop regardless on an incomplete, turnover of downs, punt. So to pretend that throwing kept the game going longer is also ridiculous. Throwing the ball right there did two things. Gave Flynn another ingame throw that he needs. And it gave the AZ team the ball with better field position then if we punted.

The fake punt was an automatic call that our special teams had already had on since the start of the game. If the special teams saw a certain coverage, they were to automatically check into the fake punt. And well, it worked flawlessly. So you know why it was an auto audible. Pete did come out afterward and say that it wasnt even on his mind at that time and he should have called it off in the middle of the game, but wasnt thinking about it. The fact that the Special teams did what they were suppose to without the coaches is awesome. Was it needed, no. But it wasnt pete trying to run up the score.

Also, the bulk of play calling in the second half of all those games was run, run, run. With a pass coming only on 3rd and longs.

And Lastly, the bulk of those points for all 3 games came in the first half. These are all professional big boys being payed millions of dollars. Its not seattles fault the teams ended up quitting on themselves.

Listen, Atlanta can only line up and play the teams in front of them. You won't see me arguing with you about Strength of Schedule weaknesses. It is more of a battle tested argument that tips the scales in the Hawks favor. I would imagine you would feel even more confident if your team had beaten teams with a stronger collective record....just to get them ready for the playoffs. As it is, you're just not quite sure what to expect with you're team on Sunday. Am I right?

The last part I will mention is the way off perception that Carroll only runs up the score on weaker teams in the NFL. Well, I guess this might concern you on Sunday huh? That you're team just might get it's butt kicked and get embarrassed? Well, don't worry. If the Seahawks need to pull back the throttle, we do so. 2nd and 3rd string guys come in. Problem is, they still execute the offense and defense really well, and your defense still has to show up for every play or we will still score. Carroll can't be accused of running up the score if we do that right? Well my friend, that is exactly how we "Ran up the score" on those other teams this year.......If that is what you want to call it. I call it mercy. Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback.

All I wanted to touch on is SF is not a weaker opponent and we beat them 42-13. We're fully capable of playing that game...but with our D, we don't need to. When teams have put up points against us, we have as well...as you can see by our biggest loss margin being 7. PC loves to play the TOP and field position game.

Nice write up and welcome to .net but you lost me when you said Carrol ran up though score. Everything else you stated is fact and great points to be made. The only argument that can be made is again, the strength of schedule. The NFC West had to play the NFC North and the AFC East while the NFC South played the AFC West and the NFC East.

For Atlanta, the AFC West was 4, 16, 25, and 28 in terms of points against a game and were 2, 20, 26, 32 in points for. While the NFC East was 12, 22, 24, 29 in points against per game and were 4, 6, 15, 29 in points for.

In comparison, the Seahawks opponents in the AFC East was 7, 9, 20, 26 in points against a game and 1, 21, 27, 28 in points for. The NFC North was 3, 11, 14, 27 in points against per game and were 5, 14, 16, 17 in points for.

In a quick glance it looks as if Seattle went head-to-head against better offenses and defenses all year while traveling quite a bit more than Atlanta did.

If you look closely at the first eight games you realize they were barely opening the playbook on both sides of the ball
Take the next eight weeks and see a completely different team as the playbook is now open
They started opening it up in the overtime vs chicago
Prior to that I was pulling out my hair and calling pete a doucheand thinking our coordinators on both sides of the ball were idiots
My how things change
go look at our offensive stats and come back

good OP, and very refreshing to see someone so young come in and talk some solid football, well done young man.. points i wanted to touch on have already been addressed, and i don't acknowledge the running up the score BS anymore, who gives a crap about that stuff other than the whiners and deadskins....

as i've stated before, this game is going to come down to defensive plays, corners against big fast physical recievers and our nickel play, ugghh... but the real battle will be trying to contain Gonzales, god that dude makes me sick.. we will have success running the ball, you guy's will probably not, but you will probably have some success with the check downs to the back and tight ends... you will more than likely struggle with our read option...

so basically what it boils down to is, both offenses will probably move the ball with some success and put points on the board.. it's going to be up to who's defense makes the most plays, TO , and ST... it also could come down to who has the ball last..
either way, great team you have, great match up, should be another great game, here's to hoping you guys lose big time..

Dallas is anything but a tough environment these days. The new stadium is cavernous, cowboy fans treat it as a social gathering, and field conditions are nearly identical to Atlanta.

This might be because Carroll likes to kick the weaker teams when they're down - seriously, he only runs up the score on the weaker opponents in the NFL.

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I bet you can come up with a simpler explanation for why we have scored more against the weaker opponents. Think about it.

I don't care about the SOS argument.

The playoffs have nothing to do with it.

In reality, it is........ HOW is the team playing currently?

Falcons lost 2 out of their last 4, including the last game played, and then had 2 weeks off.

The Hawks have won 7 of 8, 3 in a row on the road and blowouts of 3 teams in that stretch.

So, is SOS a part of that?.....No, we are simply playing well at the right time.

I would never argue the running up the score issue. It's the freakin' NFL. If you can not stop a team, that is your problem. Do your job!

I can definitely see that your offensive numbers are driven up by a 58-0 win against a 5-11 team and a 50-17 win against a 6-10 team who also allowed 52, 48, 45, 37, & 35 points to other teams this season. However, you did what you should have against those teams and blew them out.

If you want to take the SoS argument further, you can argue that the NFC South played some of the easiest ranked schedules in football, yet every team in the NFC South finished 3-3 against each other in division play, and was for some reason considered the weakest division in the NFC (every team finished with a winning record outside of division). Compare that to the NFC West where the Rams (7-8-1) finished with the best record in the west at 4-1-1, and the Cardinals the worst at 1-5. Meaning only the Niners and Seahawks finished with a winning record outside of the division. You can see there was a clear cellar dweller for everyone to beat up on.

Regardless, none of that stuff really matters, and after typing it I feel I wasted a few minutes of time. What matters most will be Sunday at 10:00am PT when our two teams meet.

This should be one of the best games of the season, and I for one can't wait.

Rise up Falcons!

Largent80":23e0krao said:

I don't care about the SOS argument.

The playoffs have nothing to do with it.

In reality, it is........ HOW is the team playing currently?

Falcons lost 2 out of their last 4, including the last game played, and then had 2 weeks off.

The Hawks have won 7 of 8, 3 in a row on the road and blowouts of 3 teams in that stretch.

So, is SOS a part of that?.....No, we are simply playing well at the right time.

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We lost 2 of our last 4 yes. But 1 was after we had wrapped up the #1 seed, the other was to a Carolina team (who is a division rival that we always seem to barely beat or lose to) that felt disrespected after we beat them. I am sure you saw all the media clippings that week about Ryan telling them to get the f### off our field (mouthed from the sideline.)

I would look at the fact that no one outside of our division beat us this season, even in the last month of the season, as a better bullet point.

Give me the hotter, younger hungrier team with swagger and really no pressure,over the team with all the pressure and no momentum after having a week off any day. I will take it.

Falcon fans-- thanks for sharing seriously.. this is soooo much better than last week with most of the Redskin fans (KD excluded)..

As a Falcon fan, I like this board. Civil for the most part and great discussion as well.

Barthawk":39sr0nmo said:

Falcon fans-- thanks for sharing seriously.. this is soooo much better than last week with most of the Redskin fans (KD excluded)..

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Even our fan base has it's trolls and less intellegent posters. But mostly we just enjoy good football!

treefidy":2z6if96u said:

Barthawk":2z6if96u said:

Falcon fans-- thanks for sharing seriously.. this is soooo much better than last week with most of the Redskin fans (KD excluded)..

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Even our fan base has it's trolls and less intellegent posters. But mostly we just enjoy good football!

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:thirishdrinkers: Yes sir!

I understand the concern about the use of SOS to justify whether a team has the makeup to go all the way. It was used heavily in '05 against the Seahawks. The Seahawks were under similar scrutiny as the '12 Falcons because of lack of recent playoff victories leading up to '05. It had been a few decades since their last playoff win in '83, similar to the current Smith/Ryan playoff drought of 0-3. I am sure Falcons fans will breath a collective sigh of relief once that monkey has been taken off their backs.

I expect the Falcons to come out highly motivated to shut up the pundits, the nation, the Seahawks and their fans. I understand and if the Falcons do win, I hope you guys make it to the Superbowl. Just a few more days and this chapter will be closed.

Thanks for the replies. I suppose I might be seeing it in a different way from most of you, and that's all good, but I did watch the entirety of the games I mentioned I felt they ran up the score. I do think that the win against the Niners was fantastic, especially since I dislike the 49ers for all the beatdowns they put on our team before my time. And I don't underestimate you guys at all. I just think that the game will be significantly closer than most do, and that people who bring up past failures of this team and strength of schedule should have the past brought to bear on them as well.

For all the people who would disagree if I said the Falcons would win JUST because they beat the Seahawks in 2010 and 2011, some would be the same people saying the Falcons are at a disadvantage because of their past playoff record. I'd be wrong to suggest we'd win because of what happened in past years, just as you'd be wrong to suggest we're the same team as years previous. We added two coordinators with vastly different philosophies. We've beaten every team on our schedule. There isn't much more you can do to prove a point when you're dealt an easy schedule.

Honestly though, good discussion...I might do a weapons write-up and comparison later to compare Seattle and Atlanta and some of the matchups...in all honesty, I'd say Sherman and Browner are great, but your safeties have been just as impressive this year. Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor are flat out ballers.

This comment annoyed me, though...

impacthawk":2f6bwh4g said:

Listen, Atlanta can only line up and play the teams in front of them. You won't see me arguing with you about Strength of Schedule weaknesses. It is more of a battle tested argument that tips the scales in the Hawks favor. I would imagine you would feel even more confident if your team had beaten teams with a stronger collective record....just to get them ready for the playoffs. As it is, you're just not quite sure what to expect with you're team on Sunday. Am I right?

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No, you're actually very much wrong. The thing I like about this team is that, despite the fact that we're playing down to weaker teams, we're also playing our best games in the spotlight, against the best teams we face. 3-0 against winning teams. 4-0 on prime time. 1 TD and 10 INTs in three games from Brees and the two Mannings. We've allowed the least passing touchdowns of any team in the NFL, and while you can point and say teams can just run on us and that's why, that doesn't explain our 5th ranked defense against better offenses than you faced. Just using the statistics here.

I'm actually very confident in my team come Sunday. It appears that you are too. We both should be. We both have the hungriest and, imho, best teams in the NFL. We're both built to play GB with our fantastic secondaries, and you obviously handled SF. I think we could beat them as well, albeit maybe not as convincingly. That was one heck of a game.

So excited for Sunday.

impacthawk":2f6bwh4g said:

The last part I will mention is the way off perception that Carroll only runs up the score on weaker teams in the NFL. Well, I guess this might concern you on Sunday huh? That you're team just might get it's butt kicked and get embarrassed? Well, don't worry. If the Seahawks need to pull back the throttle, we do so. 2nd and 3rd string guys come in. Problem is, they still execute the offense and defense really well, and your defense still has to show up for every play or we will still score. Carroll can't be accused of running up the score if we do that right? Well my friend, that is exactly how we "Ran up the score" on those other teams this year.......If that is what you want to call it. I call it mercy. Good luck.

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We score more on better teams. We score more consistently. We score quicker.

We flat out score, and you can't stop it.

On the other hand, you've been held to less than 20 points on six occasions, so it's apparent that you can be stopped. Our lowest point output of 17 is still better than five of your games. Yet you think that we're afraid we'll get out butts kicked and embarrassed?

I'm not going to start spouting off hateful trash, but I'll just say this - you're in for a show on Sunday. Likely one where two great teams battle to the end. But if one team gets handled...it won't be the one that feels disrespected, that's just getting some of its defensive starters back, the one that has everything to prove. I'll be here to eat my crow if I'm wrong.