ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core

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ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:35 pm
  • Ok, I’m a little annoyed with this silly argument about who has better receivers or a better passing game, with the only distinction that their players are named White and Jones and the fact they had more targets.

    Since we are a rushing team (TOT: 404 Pass/att, 536 Run/att) as opposed to ATL (TOT: 615 Pass, 378 Run/att) it’s natural the totals are going to be skewed. But let’s look at our receiving core and see how they match up:

    SEA-ATL WR#1
    NAMERECTAREffYDSAVGTD20+20+%YACYAC%
    Roddy White9214364%135114.771820%33825%
    Sidney Rice508063%7481571122%16422%


    SEA-ATL WR#2
    NAMERECTAREffYDSAVGTD20+20+%YACYAC%
    Julio Jones7912961%119815.2101722%45038%
    Golden Tate456866%68815.371227%22132%


    SEA-ATL WR#3
    NAMERECTAREffYDSAVGTD20+20+%YACYAC%
    Harry Douglas385964%39610.41513%14637%
    Doug Baldwin294959%36612.63517%8122%


    SEA-ATL TE#1
    NAMERECTAREffYDSAVGTD20+20+%YACYAC%
    Tony Gonzalez9312475%93010833%23625%
    Zach Miller385372%39610.43718%13233%


    SEA-ATL RB#1
    NAMERECTAREffYDSAVGTD20+20+%YACYAC%
    Jacquizz Rodgers535990%4027.6124%38796%
    Marshawn Lynch233077%1968.5129%19499%


    The point being we have just as an effective receiving core as Atlanta does when you take away statistics that are skewed by how often the two teams Pass/Run.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:52 pm
  • U could say the level of production from the ATL weapons is acquired because of how many opportunities they give those guys to make big plays.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:55 pm
  • That actually made me feel alot better about the passing game. Matt Ryan threw it over 600 times this season, of course they are going to have high numbers when all they do is throw it.

    Russell Wilson has proved that we can win with him hitting his 200 yards passing mark, especially with Lynch going over 100 yards rushing, plus wilsons rushing yards, and throw in a hint of turbin and thats where our strength comes in.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:00 pm
  • yup its easy to put up gaudy traditional stats when all you can do is throw 40 times a game to try and win...I'll take our efficient balanced attack over 6000yds passing every time.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:01 pm
  • The only thin that concerns me there is Gonzales in the redzone. 8 TDs - he will be a big target and we didn't do well on the first two goalline stands against the red skins. In the other hand we have a week to work on that :)
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:04 pm
  • So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:04 pm
  • One telling stat is number of touchdowns.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:12 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Not my interpretation. Swap receiving corps (not RB) and Matt Ryan would be in hot water this year and RW would have locked up ROY week 6.....
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:26 pm
  • As long as we have the ball and make first downs, Ryan can't throw to any of his receivers. Ball control, no turnovers, keep pounding the rock down their throat.
    If we get ahead ... we can let the defense finish them off. Also, I'm looking for our special team to make things happen this game, they were quite in Washington.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:26 pm
  • These numbers are very intriguing. Obviously they aren't everything for either team but they do a really good job of telling the receiver production story. Frankly, our receivers have done better than I thought. I can't wait to see how the numbers improve once the team is more familiar with each other and able to gel a bit better.

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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:33 pm
  • the fact that those players are so efficient despite the lack of a running game speaks volumes of their quality though
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:50 pm
  • FWIW, it's spelled "Corps"... not "Core" in the sense that you used it in the subject.

    Same pronunciation, different spelling.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:08 am
  • Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Ok for arguments sake let's say this was reveresed. Taking away that you had a White/Jones but still did not adjust your pass/run differential (Preferring Lynch). With the numbers I see, I would expect them to close, yes. BUT, there is another large difference the total pass attempt distribution (and even more for TD's) for Atlanta is heavily weighted to your top 3 Recievers + Jaquizz.

    Where the Seattle offense has more of a pass distribution beyond thier 2WR's and 1 Slot. Including Robinson(RB), McCoy (TE#2), Turbin (RB#2), which would skew the numbers.

    With that said, yes the general argument would be the numbers would be the same taking into acount the 4.2% better completion percentage that Ryan holds over Wilson.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 am
  • onanygivensunday wrote:FWIW, it's spelled "Corps"... not "Core" in the sense that you used it in the subject.

    Same pronunciation, different spelling.


    No I meant core as in thier core (primary) recievers, I've left out other receivers Atlanta uses. So not thier entire "corps".
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:26 am
  • :177692: isnt this obvious? for a board who has talked about "Falcons can't run the ball all they can do is pass!" you had to make up a chart that they had more opurtunities? :34853_doh:
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:32 am
  • Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Actually, I think he is pointing out that our receivers numbers are skewed by the number of targets. That they are underrated as a whole.

    Probably much the same you guys feel about your defense and folks disrespecting Strength of Schedule. Ya'll beat the teams you faced.

    I think Roddy White and Julio Jones are very talented. I ain't arguing the fact that you guys have a superb receiving group, but I also like out group. Once Rice got through the injury stuff, he has been awesome. Tate is great after the catch and on screens, and Baldwin is a prototypical third down receiver.

    Your receiving corp is legit, it is who we think it is. Our receiving corp is underrated. They are better than a lot of Atlanta fans think (at least the ones on the fan forums).
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:34 am
  • Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Who said that? Stop making things up
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:06 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Ok for arguments sake let's say this was reveresed. Taking away that you had a White/Jones but still did not adjust your pass/run differential (Preferring Lynch). With the numbers I see, I would expect them to close, yes. BUT, there is another large difference the total pass attempt distribution (and even more for TD's) for Atlanta is heavily weighted to your top 3 Recievers + Jaquizz.

    Where the Seattle offense has more of a pass distribution beyond thier 2WR's and 1 Slot. Including Robinson(RB), McCoy (TE#2), Turbin (RB#2), which would skew the numbers.

    With that said, yes the general argument would be the numbers would be the same taking into acount the 4.2% better completion percentage that Ryan holds over Wilson.


    I know it is your post but I completely disagree with you. If RW is better than Matt Ryan then he is doing more with his WR than Ryan is. So you swap receivers maybe RW's numbers skyrocket and so does the WRs whereas Matt Ryan's AND Rice's, Tates etc numbers go way down.......

    The numbers ONLY show that we get about the same amount of efficiency out of our WRs as Atlanta does
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:19 pm
  • keepertd wrote::177692: isnt this obvious? for a board who has talked about "Falcons can't run the ball all they can do is pass!" you had to make up a chart that they had more opurtunities? :34853_doh:


    That's not what it says. not at all. When the sample size of pass attempts varies by that degree, the only real way to compare the two teams passing efficiency is by looking at the averages and percentages. That's why averages and percentages exist in the first place. When you look at the averages, we're not really all that far apart. Yes they're better than us, but it isn't night and day like my gut was telling me.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:24 pm
  • White and Jones would have less catches and yards in seattle in our current offense? the answer is yes... we run the ball a lot more and we distribute the ball to a lot more targets.... obviously because tate and rice are not averaging 100 yrds per game... the most intriguing stat i see is touchdowns... and a huge edge going to ATL in the TE position.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:34 pm
  • keepertd wrote::177692: isnt this obvious? for a board who has talked about "Falcons can't run the ball all they can do is pass!" you had to make up a chart that they had more opurtunities? :34853_doh:


    Keeper, after browsing through your post history I'd like to just say this one thing: No one is forcing you to be here.

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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:05 pm
  • Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:07 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.


    Sure, you can catch a pass or even a few passes on Kam, but when he lowers the boom on a player, their arms tend to get shorter for the rest of the game.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:01 pm
  • mikeak wrote:
    Shock2k wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:So basically your saying if the Falcons were to swap players with the Hawks that they'd get the same or similar results?


    Ok for arguments sake let's say this was reveresed. Taking away that you had a White/Jones but still did not adjust your pass/run differential (Preferring Lynch). With the numbers I see, I would expect them to close, yes. BUT, there is another large difference the total pass attempt distribution (and even more for TD's) for Atlanta is heavily weighted to your top 3 Recievers + Jaquizz.

    Where the Seattle offense has more of a pass distribution beyond thier 2WR's and 1 Slot. Including Robinson(RB), McCoy (TE#2), Turbin (RB#2), which would skew the numbers.

    With that said, yes the general argument would be the numbers would be the same taking into acount the 4.2% better completion percentage that Ryan holds over Wilson.


    I know it is your post but I completely disagree with you. If RW is better than Matt Ryan then he is doing more with his WR than Ryan is. So you swap receivers maybe RW's numbers skyrocket and so does the WRs whereas Matt Ryan's AND Rice's, Tates etc numbers go way down.......

    The numbers ONLY show that we get about the same amount of efficiency out of our WRs as Atlanta does


    I didn't compare Matt Ryan to Russell Wilson, I'm comparing receiver effeciency, something I can compare, as once the ball is in the air, from both passers mainting relatively similiar completion percentages, I can make a reasonable assumption between the effectiveness of the receivers.

    We have very good receivers, we've all seen Golden, Rice, and Baldwin make amazing catches throughout the year. This thought started me down this road, as I was wondering how would you make the argument against Atlanta's receivers, and the rest is the list above.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:19 pm
  • I assume you see how a different qb would effect the efficency numbers of wr's right?

    Jones may be open 100 / 100 times but Matt Ryan only hits him 70 times. On the other hand Tate may have an extremly small window where the ball can go and RW hits it every single time and Tate catches the ball 70% of the time whereas Ryan would miss it 50% of the time and then a 70% catch rate would be a horrible number......

    You can't say putting a WR on a different team would give them about the same numbers because while you don't compare the qb's the WR numbers are tied to who throws the ball.

    What your numbers show is that when Seattle passes the ball you can expect as much of a threat as when Atlanta passes the ball
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:44 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.


    Sure, you can catch a pass or even a few passes on Kam, but when he lowers the boom on a player, their arms tend to get shorter for the rest of the game.


    Very true.

    We also play a team game on the back end. It isn't just 4 guys running around doing their own thing back there. You're not going to exploit BB just because he's less talented in coverage than Sherman. We set up the system to allow BB to play to his strengths (and damn is he strong). Ditto for Kam.

    Sherman is a stud and we can leave him on an island on his side of the field. He's fast enough and athletic enough that he doesn't need help over the top. He's Revis with a mouth. That allows Kam to play up closer to the LOS and play almost like a SS/LB hybrid style where he can lower the boom on any suckas that dare try to catch a ball in his general vacinity (see Davis, Vernon; Witten, Jason or Heap, Todd for evidence). Earl Thomas is one of the fastest moving people in the league. He can move from center field to the sideline in the blink of an eye. That's why we can leave him as a single high safety over the top. Brandon Browner doesn't have Sherman's speed or quickness, but he is a straight up thug in press coverage. Knowing that we have Earl Thomas over the top to clean up anything that might slip past, Browner is free to beat the crap out of recievers within 5 yards (...okay more like 6, maybe 7 yards). Not that he's even in the same league as Atlanta's big boy recievers, but look at what Browner and Thomas did to Pierre Garcon last week, especially on ET's pick. By the end of that game, BB had Garcon so frustrated that he faked a booboo just to get of the field.

    Put all those factors together, and add a very fast movng Bobby Wagner patrolling the middle, and Seattle is an extremely difficult team to pass the ball on whether it's left, right, deep, short or whatever. The only piece that worries me is nickel DB Marcus Trufant on whoever's in the slot. I mean, I love the dude, but he's over the hill. If we're to be exposed, that's where it will happen. God I wish Walter Thurmond could stay healthy...
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:56 pm
  • mikeak wrote:I assume you see how a different qb would effect the efficency numbers of wr's right?

    Jones may be open 100 / 100 times but Matt Ryan only hits him 70 times. On the other hand Tate may have an extremly small window where the ball can go and RW hits it every single time and Tate catches the ball 70% of the time whereas Ryan would miss it 50% of the time and then a 70% catch rate would be a horrible number......

    You can't say putting a WR on a different team would give them about the same numbers because while you don't compare the qb's the WR numbers are tied to who throws the ball.

    What your numbers show is that when Seattle passes the ball you can expect as much of a threat as when Atlanta passes the ball


    I see what your saying. Yes, I totally agree. From a "how hard was it to catch" perspective, "how well was it thrown", or tipped balls, or any of those other factors of course are not in consideration. Though it is not a statistical leap to say that the averages may come out close if you swapped receivers (though admittedly it is a leap, which is why I started that statement with "for arguments sake...")

    With that said, I think there these arguments can be extended around who has better pass distribution. I would argue that Seattle has better pass distribution than Atlanta. Though does Seattle have better distribution because Matt Ryan in general does not need to go further down his progressions than Wilson? Or, is it a better scheme/focus in distribution between the two teams? Again I'm not sure, I have not seen a lot of Atlanta games this year.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:02 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.


    Sure, you can catch a pass or even a few passes on Kam, but when he lowers the boom on a player, their arms tend to get shorter for the rest of the game.


    Very true.

    We also play a team game on the back end. It isn't just 4 guys running around doing their own thing back there. You're not going to exploit BB just because he's less talented in coverage than Sherman. We set up the system to allow BB to play to his strengths (and damn is he strong). Ditto for Kam.

    Sherman is a stud and we can leave him on an island on his side of the field. He's fast enough and athletic enough that he doesn't need help over the top. He's Revis with a mouth. That allows Kam to play up closer to the LOS and play almost like a SS/LB hybrid style where he can lower the boom on any suckas that dare try to catch a ball in his general vacinity (see Davis, Vernon; Witten, Jason or Heap, Todd for evidence). Earl Thomas is one of the fastest moving people in the league. He can move from center field to the sideline in the blink of an eye. That's why we can leave him as a single high safety over the top. Brandon Browner doesn't have Sherman's speed or quickness, but he is a straight up thug in press coverage. Knowing that we have Earl Thomas over the top to clean up anything that might slip past, Browner is free to beat the crap out of recievers within 5 yards (...okay more like 6, maybe 7 yards). Not that he's even in the same league as Atlanta's big boy recievers, but look at what Browner and Thomas did to Pierre Garcon last week, especially on ET's pick. By the end of that game, BB had Garcon so frustrated that he faked a booboo just to get of the field.

    Put all those factors together, and add a very fast movng Bobby Wagner patrolling the middle, and Seattle is an extremely difficult team to pass the ball on whether it's left, right, deep, short or whatever. The only piece that worries me is nickel DB Marcus Trufant on whoever's in the slot. I mean, I love the dude, but he's over the hill. If we're to be exposed, that's where it will happen. God I wish Walter Thurmond could stay healthy...

    Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even. I also thought you guys played stacked the box with 8 and gave a lot of single high safety looks? Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't understand how playing a team game would stop Browner from getting beat 1 on 1 in that situation? Let's say he gets beat on a slant route by Julio Jones in one on one? I don't think Earl Thomas has the closing speed to catch Julio in the open field.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:26 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.


    Sure, you can catch a pass or even a few passes on Kam, but when he lowers the boom on a player, their arms tend to get shorter for the rest of the game.


    Very true.

    We also play a team game on the back end. It isn't just 4 guys running around doing their own thing back there. You're not going to exploit BB just because he's less talented in coverage than Sherman. We set up the system to allow BB to play to his strengths (and damn is he strong). Ditto for Kam.

    Sherman is a stud and we can leave him on an island on his side of the field. He's fast enough and athletic enough that he doesn't need help over the top. He's Revis with a mouth. That allows Kam to play up closer to the LOS and play almost like a SS/LB hybrid style where he can lower the boom on any suckas that dare try to catch a ball in his general vacinity (see Davis, Vernon; Witten, Jason or Heap, Todd for evidence). Earl Thomas is one of the fastest moving people in the league. He can move from center field to the sideline in the blink of an eye. That's why we can leave him as a single high safety over the top. Brandon Browner doesn't have Sherman's speed or quickness, but he is a straight up thug in press coverage. Knowing that we have Earl Thomas over the top to clean up anything that might slip past, Browner is free to beat the crap out of recievers within 5 yards (...okay more like 6, maybe 7 yards). Not that he's even in the same league as Atlanta's big boy recievers, but look at what Browner and Thomas did to Pierre Garcon last week, especially on ET's pick. By the end of that game, BB had Garcon so frustrated that he faked a booboo just to get of the field.

    Put all those factors together, and add a very fast movng Bobby Wagner patrolling the middle, and Seattle is an extremely difficult team to pass the ball on whether it's left, right, deep, short or whatever. The only piece that worries me is nickel DB Marcus Trufant on whoever's in the slot. I mean, I love the dude, but he's over the hill. If we're to be exposed, that's where it will happen. God I wish Walter Thurmond could stay healthy...


    Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even. I also thought you guys played stacked the box with 8 and gave a lot of single high safety looks? Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't understand how playing a team game would stop Browner from getting beat 1 on 1 in that situation? Let's say he gets beat on a slant route by Julio Jones in one on one? I don't think Earl Thomas has the closing speed to catch Julio in the open field.


    Yes actually, he is on Revis's level. He is a 6'3" Derelle Revis that talks shit non stop. You'll see. Then you'll believe.

    As for Earl's speed... you'll also see. That kid as a ballistic missile. But for Julio to get open on the slant route, he'll have to either wait for BB to play off or beat the jam, then he'll also have MLB Bobby Wagner to contend with (who often plays a short zone over the middle). The thing with the slant route is it's all about the YAC. Julio might very well make the completion (hell, he might make a bunch) but he's not going very far with it. ET will close in and make the tackle for a short gain. You guys can play dink n dunk ball if you want, but it's not really your style.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:30 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:
    mikeak wrote:I assume you see how a different qb would effect the efficency numbers of wr's right?

    Jones may be open 100 / 100 times but Matt Ryan only hits him 70 times. On the other hand Tate may have an extremly small window where the ball can go and RW hits it every single time and Tate catches the ball 70% of the time whereas Ryan would miss it 50% of the time and then a 70% catch rate would be a horrible number......

    You can't say putting a WR on a different team would give them about the same numbers because while you don't compare the qb's the WR numbers are tied to who throws the ball.

    What your numbers show is that when Seattle passes the ball you can expect as much of a threat as when Atlanta passes the ball


    I see what your saying. Yes, I totally agree. From a "how hard was it to catch" perspective, "how well was it thrown", or tipped balls, or any of those other factors of course are not in consideration. Though it is not a statistical leap to say that the averages may come out close if you swapped receivers (though admittedly it is a leap, which is why I started that statement with "for arguments sake...")

    With that said, I think there these arguments can be extended around who has better pass distribution. I would argue that Seattle has better pass distribution than Atlanta. Though does Seattle have better distribution because Matt Ryan in general does not need to go further down his progressions than Wilson? Or, is it a better scheme/focus in distribution between the two teams? Again I'm not sure, I have not seen a lot of Atlanta games this year.


    Honestly I think Atlanta's WRs are way better at getting separation / by having two elite receivers you get more man-to-man and RW would be a runaway ROY with Jones and White on the team.... Add to that a HOF TE and my conclusion of the numbers is also that Matt Ryan isn't all that
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:30 pm
  • skater18000 wrote:U could say the level of production from the ATL weapons is acquired because of how many opportunities they give those guys to make big plays.


    for the lack of a productive rushing game which all know favors the other but somehow in their case their effective passing does not open the run?


    should be interesting I hope everyone is fully rested and primed up for this one... :thirishdrinkers:
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:39 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even. I also thought you guys played stacked the box with 8 and gave a lot of single high safety looks? Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't understand how playing a team game would stop Browner from getting beat 1 on 1 in that situation? Let's say he gets beat on a slant route by Julio Jones in one on one? I don't think Earl Thomas has the closing speed to catch Julio in the open field.


    A healthy Revis MIGHT be slightly better, but it's closer than you think. And Sherman has that understanding of the game you mention, better than you think. He's a smart dude, a Stanford grad, and he started his college career playing wide receiver for a couple of seasons, so he does understand what QB's and WR's are thinking.

    To help illustrate just how good Sherman has become in such a short time:

    Darrelle Revis 2007 rookie year-16 games: 3 picks, 17 passes defended, 1 forced fumble
    Richard Sherman 2011 rookie year-TEN games: 4 picks, 17 passes defended, 1 forced fumble

    Darrelle Revis 2nd year-5 picks, 16 passes defended, 1 forced fumble
    Richard Sherman 2nd year-8 picks, 24 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:40 pm
  • Tony Gonzalez is the biggest threat and concern, IMO. Seahawks are weak against TE and this is the best one they have faced all year. They had trouble with Pettigrew from Detroit. Gonzalez is a top 3 TE in the league and Ryan has shown that he will go to him at will. They don't have to go to Jones or White. They can still ride the Gonzo or use Douglas (Bess destroyed the Seahawks when they played in Miami). I'm not worried about the corners or the vertical game, it's the middle pass attack that is problematic for the Hawks.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:55 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:Sherman and Earl Thomas being one of my favorite players/safeties are the only ones that worry me. I think Browner and Chancellor can be had.


    so were the other 9 teams we've played "hadder" broke...? in other words they've went up against some of the best recievers in the league this year, and none of them seemed to have had their way with them, what makes your guys special.. either your guys are far and above the best recievers in the league, or our guys are pretty good...
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 pm
  • White and Julio are miles better than any WR we have.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:46 pm
  • I will say that Sidney rice is definitely underrated this season. The guy is a beast and would definitely have over 1,000 yards in a traditional offense.

    I will also say, Golden Tate is who he is and will probably never be much more.

    Doug Baldwin has some tremendous upside. He had like 800 yards last year as a rookie. He has the talent.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:57 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even.


    And with this you lose any shred of credibility you had. Sherman has the advantage of playing Major College Football as a receiver. He's bated several QB's this year, including Tom Brady.

    Revis is great, but I don't think there is nearly the separation between the two you think that there is. Saying Revis has a knowledge of the game that Sherman doesn't is ridiculous, imo.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm
  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    keepertd wrote::177692: isnt this obvious? for a board who has talked about "Falcons can't run the ball all they can do is pass!" you had to make up a chart that they had more opurtunities? :34853_doh:


    Keeper, after browsing through your post history I'd like to just say this one thing: No one is forcing you to be here.

    Thanks.


    all i did was point out what should be obvious, its like stating the fact Seattle runs more run plays than the Falcons do...no kidding because that's playing with the teams strength...
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:31 pm
  • Starrman44 wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even.


    And with this you lose any shred of credibility you had. Sherman has the advantage of playing Major College Football as a receiver. He's bated several QB's this year, including Tom Brady.

    Revis is great, but I don't think there is nearly the separation between the two you think that there is. Saying Revis has a knowledge of the game that Sherman doesn't is ridiculous, imo.

    No it's not ridiculous because he does. Revis is just as good if not a better press corner than Sherman and his understanding of the game pre-snap to know where the ball is coming is what makes him great. I'd like to see Richard Sherman's stats in zone as opposed to bump and run. He baited Brady on a "screw it" underthrow? I think not. I'd also like to see where he baited these other QB's you speak of. This is what baiting a QB entails. You can see the huge cushion Asante gives him from the start. After the snap Palmer looks to the left and everything is covered, he knows he has a WR on an out route on the other side of the field. Because of the huge cushion Asante gave before the ball was snapped Palmer doesn't expect Asante to be in position to pick the ball off but being the ballhawk that he is and knowing that on 3rd and 6 an out route is probably headed his way he jumps the route and returns it for 6. That is baiting a QB, not running stride for stride with a WR and picking off an underthrown ball.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 pm
  • One thing is obvious, great chart Shock2k. It has spurred a lot of really interesting dialogue which is a lot of fun to speculate on. I, like the rest of you, am excited to see how it all plays out on Sunday and who's theory ends up holding water. Ultimately it will come back to the QB's. If Russ got out all the jitters last week and plays like he did the second half of the season he and his receivers will be just fine. Of course, if Ryan plays well his receivers will be in good shape too. Go Hawks!

    Thanks for the time creating and sharing this!
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:59 pm
  • I would take our #3 and running back over theirs any day. Their #1 and #2 are obviously better. I do think Rice could be better than White if he was 10000% healthy, and if he had as many targets as White has had.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:06 pm
  • Starrman44 wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even.


    And with this you lose any shred of credibility you had. Sherman has the advantage of playing Major College Football as a receiver. He's bated several QB's this year, including Tom Brady.

    Revis is great, but I don't think there is nearly the separation between the two you think that there is. Saying Revis has a knowledge of the game that Sherman doesn't is ridiculous, imo.


    Don't get mad at him if he doesn't know that much about Sherman, he isn't a Seahawk fan. You don't have to throw out accusations of him losing all his credibility. Hell, I'll practically guarantee you most of the things you know about Sherman is from reading other people's breakdowns, not really breaking down all-22 of every Seahawk game, no shame in that, it's how I do it.

    Just saying, don't rip him to shreds just because he isn't as educated on a Seahawk player as we are.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:13 pm
  • Dirty Bird wrote:
    Starrman44 wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even.


    And with this you lose any shred of credibility you had. Sherman has the advantage of playing Major College Football as a receiver. He's bated several QB's this year, including Tom Brady.

    Revis is great, but I don't think there is nearly the separation between the two you think that there is. Saying Revis has a knowledge of the game that Sherman doesn't is ridiculous, imo.

    No it's not ridiculous because he does. Revis is just as good if not a better press corner than Sherman and his understanding of the game pre-snap to know where the ball is coming is what makes him great. I'd like to see Richard Sherman's stats in zone as opposed to bump and run. He baited Brady on a "screw it" underthrow? I think not. I'd also like to see where he baited these other QB's you speak of. This is what baiting a QB entails. You can see the huge cushion Asante gives him from the start. After the snap Palmer looks to the left and everything is covered, he knows he has a WR on an out route on the other side of the field. Because of the huge cushion Asante gave before the ball was snapped Palmer doesn't expect Asante to be in position to pick the ball off but being the ballhawk that he is and knowing that on 3rd and 6 an out route is probably headed his way he jumps the route and returns it for 6. That is baiting a QB, not running stride for stride with a WR and picking off an underthrown ball.


    Thanks for defining the word baiting for us....... :sarcasm_off:
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:22 pm
  • He's a master at baiting.

    Ps. Carson palmer sucks.
    Last edited by CANHawk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:23 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:He's a master baiter.


    FIFY
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:33 pm
  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:He's a master baiter.


    FIFY


    Thanks Big Ben.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:05 pm
  • camdawg wrote:
    Dirty Bird wrote:Um, Sherman is great but not on Revis level IMO. Revis has a knowledge of the game Sherman doesn't and plays a chess match with opposing QB's. Sherman is also not even close to being as good as Revis in zone but in terms of press/man to man coverage their about even. I also thought you guys played stacked the box with 8 and gave a lot of single high safety looks? Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't understand how playing a team game would stop Browner from getting beat 1 on 1 in that situation? Let's say he gets beat on a slant route by Julio Jones in one on one? I don't think Earl Thomas has the closing speed to catch Julio in the open field.


    A healthy Revis MIGHT be slightly better, but it's closer than you think. And Sherman has that understanding of the game you mention, better than you think. He's a smart dude, a Stanford grad, and he started his college career playing wide receiver for a couple of seasons, so he does understand what QB's and WR's are thinking.

    To help illustrate just how good Sherman has become in such a short time:

    Darrelle Revis 2007 rookie year-16 games: 3 picks, 17 passes defended, 1 forced fumble
    Richard Sherman 2011 rookie year-TEN games: 4 picks, 17 passes defended, 1 forced fumble

    Darrelle Revis 2nd year-5 picks, 16 passes defended, 1 forced fumble
    Richard Sherman 2nd year-8 picks, 24 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles


    Sherman also had a sack this year. And it should be remembered because it speaks volumes about his football IQ. Pete and him both reflected about that particular sack, pointing back to training camp, showing a rare offensive set which nobody really ever expected to see, and was given the instructions "If you ever see this, blitz". He isn't just a naturally talented corner with some WR experience, he is just as much a student of the game as Wilson.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:12 pm
  • By the way, the WR breakdown is terrific.

    I still, as a Hawk fan, give a lot of credit to Atlanta's WR over ours because the way our receivers get open comes from Wilson's ability to extend plays. I also think Atlanta's WR/QB connection has the benefit of more time spent together, so Ryan and his WRs have more then a single season to know each other. I can't under value that experience, even though I think Ryan potentially has to get past the pressure of the moment when its all on the line and prove he can win when it counts.

    off the topic of this game, I really really look forward to seeing what kind of passing game the Seahawks develop with more games played together. Next season is going to interesting with that kind of time to develop and refine their game.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:05 am
  • Great breakdown !!! Thanks so much for this. It puts a lot into perspective.
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Re: ATL vs. SEA Receiving Core
Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:08 am
  • Dirty bird, go to week 17 and watch the conclusion of the Seahawks-Rams game. Sherman Baits Bradford ( who has a much better statistical history of not being bated than Palmer who habitually leads the league in pick 6's) to throw to a wr down the middle who looked wide open.

    Other things to look at are when he battles for a ball with a receiver he usually wins and some of his picks are things of beauty. Keeping two feet in bounds while stretching out of bounds to make a catch many starting wr's wouldn't or couldn't make.

    Sherman didn't just play WR at Stanford. He was the leading receiver his Freshman and Softmore years before he got injured his junior year.

    The guy is a stud and a defensive leader on one of the best defenses in the league.
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