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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:45 pm 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
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No, but I would have thought he'd say something like "no one receiver may stand out, but they have a balanced attack and we all have to play good disciplined football on Sunday and take their crowd out of the game". Something to that effect.


Riggo, Sherman is just Sherman. He is arguably one of the best, if not the best CB in the league. And as fans, honestly we like his talk, because he does back it up. Realize too, he's gone up against some good recievers this year from some of the best offenses in the NFL. So I don't think you will see anyone here attempt to defend him (because we love ourselves some Sherman). But hey, we will see when he finally gets blown up in a game, if that ever happens.


How do you think he got so good so fast? 5th round draft pick etc. Do you think most people passed him over because 6'3 just isn't typical corner size?

I'm amazed at how well your secondary turned out, given there was relatively little noise about any of them coming into the league.


Pete Caroll's scheme doesn't ask the CB's to do a ton of different things. Ask yourself, how many great CB's have there been at USC when he was there, then ask yourself how many of them have amounted to anything in the NFL? We drafted one of those guys early in Holmgren's tenure, Kris Richard, he's now our DB coach. CB is one of the more fungible positions on Pete's D. The guy that really makes it all work is Earl Thomas. Pete likes safties way more than CB's.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Fastest guy on the field Earl Thomas or Lane our other CB, go ahead and throw up that deep ball with the pretty spiral. Reason we can be physical is Thomas covering the deep zone for BOTH sides of the field because he is that fast and that smart back there.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
Sherman was mocking thier receivers?

Anyone know what he said?


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:33 pm 
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i know this is off topic but i dont know think i should start its own topic, its obvious why the skins dont like Sherman, But why does it seem like their biggest target is Leon Washington? I've read several things about their players targeting him. And their fans keep saying " I hope we get a bone shattering hit on Leon"
Is there a story there?
Sorry for the hijacking i was just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Because of the coin toss last time we faced them maybe, him and Robinson were standing up for a guest of honor that was in the coin flip huddle along with Hargrove.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:03 pm 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
You guys act lie Sherman = Revis. Unbeatable. Do you really believe he can't be caught on or beaten?


He can be beaten.. there's no such thing as a complete lock-down corner anymore. More likely than not though.. if there is a DB beaten tomorrow it won't be #25. Browner and Trufant are much more susceptible to being beat for a big play.

What Sherman has been known to do as well, is he will bait the opposing team QB throughout the entire game. So he may play off his guy a couple of times in hopes that the QB gets a little false confidence and makes a mistake.

Not sure if RG3 will do that.. as he protects the football exceptionally well, but it's something to keep in mind. Sherman is a VERY smart corner.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:22 pm 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:

You guys act lie Sherman = Revis. Unbeatable. Do you really believe he can't be caught on or beaten?


He can be beaten but a lot of independent stat geeks point out his stop rate is pretty outstanding. The first Rams game this year was not one of his better games. He is a pretty smart DB and uses his familiarity from being a WR in his play. Both he and Browner seem awkward to me but Sherman is much more fluid, just gangly (sp).

A couple of things to consider. In 2010, not a single player on the Seahawks made the Pro-Bowl. The team was a fantasy football nightmare on offense as well as defense. To now have players that can be considered near the top of their position groups in less than 2 yrs, of course there may be an over-inflated opinion of said players.

But how do most players get to be known throughout the league unless they are QBs/WRs or RBs. Hype. It isn't just Seahawks fans hyping these players now. It is the silly media, the same media that still thinks the national audience cares or wants to hear about Tim Tebow and the Jets.

Around here, in the past few months, there has been a light switch that was flipped. Now this team and its fans are now being forced down people's throat like the 9ers, Patriots, Giants and Packers. They can easily be replaced with the Skins if things continue going well for your team.

I leave it up to others to dispute who is the best or not. Darrell Green was one bad mofo, but he probably has more respect within the Skins fanbase than he has with the Seahawks fans. Skins fans are more vested in his greatness. It makes them feel part of history. Snicker and let our delusional fans have their day in the sun. Or is that something else you want taken from them after tomorrow's game?

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Great post as usual Doc. Dare I say EPIC. The comparison to Darrell Green seals it for me. You ask ANY Skins fan about Darrell and they will rave on and on about him for a long time. If you say something negative about Darrell you'll get your butt kicked, whether it be by an actual boot to the ass, or with a string of awards and statistics. Darrell is even very very well known to me, and I have never been to DC, don't watch a tremendous amount of Skins games, and am fairly Seahawk and college-centric in my viewing. But I know through our chance meetings over the years that Darrell Green was one of (if not the) best DB's to ever play. It's easy to see why. He was fast. He got the ball. He did the very things that Sherman does, in baiting QB's. He may not get you today, but Darrell would always end up ahead. Even if it was a season later. He remembered everything and played on that stuff.

So your comparison is beautiful. Darrell was blessed with being extremely fast. Fastest guy I ever saw except for maybe Devin Hester. He was lightning quick, and even in his 20th season was step for step with any receiver they put him on. But what made him great? His brain. He was so ridiculously smart. He knew tendencies on everybody. I'd say the Hawks had a very similar player in Dave Brown. Skins fans won't remember Dave, but we all will, for the very same reasons. If you burned Dave somehow in the first quarter, then he was picking you off for six points in the third, because he knew as a QB you just could NOT resist trying it again. You had to.... and Dave was right there waiting for the ball in the spot he knew it would be. For us as Hawks fans this is the best defensive backfield we've had since Dave Brown, Kenny Easley, Eugene Robinson, and Terry Taylor. I'd put those 4 guys up against any foursome at DB in NFL history and feel pretty darned confident that we were going to be alright. 2 of the greatest safeties to ever play the game were roaming the middle, a true amazing shutdown genius in Dave, and Terry was the young guy that could fly like he had wings on his feet. Too bad they didn't play together that long, but when they did.... we knew that we had a distinct advantage, especially with Green and Nash and I believe Bryant too up front. That was a defense that this team is looking like, and for old-timers like us, this is something we have EARNED as diehard fans, and you're darn right we're going to enjoy every great moment and watching them grow and learn and hopefully do something like bring us the trophy the 86 defense rightfully deserved. If they were in the NFC that year, they'd have made the playoffs and no doubt in my mind won the Superbowl.

I saw several writers who had the end of year power rankings with the Seahawks at #1 in 1986 and they didn't even make the playoffs. They were that good, but hit a stinker of a run on offense at the absolute worst time. They proved it head to head that they were better than the Giants though and everybody knew it. Unfortunately, Easley got sick, Taylor started using drugs (at least that was the rumor), and DB got old in a hurry and that was that. Let us relish our good fortune now. We've earned it as a fanbase.

One moment that really just brought a lot of emotion up in me was due to one of these players. Eugene Robinson won a Superbowl in Green Bay and they asked him for his thoughts right after the game, and it still chokes me up a bit even now. But he literally held that trophy up and said to the announcer that "This is for all of the fans in Seattle and in Green Bay too!" Yeah, he said Seattle before Green Bay. I loved that. Eugene went out there and played for a few teams, but his heart was always in Seattle and he wanted to thank US and tell us that this Lombardi that he was holding was as much ours as anybody elses. Sure it belonged to the Packers, but for him to even say that meant a lot. He knew we needed something and he offered it. It was one of the classiest things I've ever seen, and yet I'm afraid many never saw it. I did, and I had to get up and leave the room as I was watching it with all of my roommates in college and I had to just go sit in my room and dry my eyes, because it meant a lot. Now we have guys like that again putting us on the map, and I know that Eugene will be the first one cheering if we get that trophy and I hope like crazy it happens, and if it doesn't... oh well. It won't be because I short sold my team or said anything bad about them. I LOVE these guys and will hype them until I'm dead. Richard Sherman is better than Revis. There I said it. Why? Because I think it's true. If Richard Sherman were on the Jets he'd be the spokesperson for Nike, Gatorade, McDonalds, and Amazon.com right now. He's good. He's great. He's ours. We love him.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:24 am 
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Was there any one play that really sealed it for you with Sherman? With Darrell I can still remember him running down Tony Dorsett from across the field to save a TD on a long run play, and his outstretched dive to stop Darren Wilson of the Vikings from scoring in the 1987 Championship game to tie in the final seconds.

Was he the greatest ever? That's highly debatable....but he was definitely deserving of his Hall of Fame credentials. From 1983 to 1990 I'd say he was the best in the NFL. Then Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders arrived and it became a bit more debatable.

Dude played for 20 years as a corner! To me that says he did everything right regarding how he treated his body. It makes me sad that the last half of his career we only made the playoffs once in 10 years. He played his last game under Spurrier...wish he could have gone out until a better team but he never complained or whined, just kept being the ultimate professional.

I know he and Art Monk used to call players to get together during the offseason and lift/condition back when they didn't have OTAs...they both led by example...much the way Russell Wilson and RGIII do now.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:31 am 
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Sherman had an INT where he made a better catch than any receiver I've ever seen. Extended out to about 10 feet and on his absolute tiptoes. I still don't know where he came from and how he got to that ball and caught it. It was amazing.

The play last week where he just baited Bradford all game and snuck in from nowhere to steal an INT and win the game was pretty cool too. He seems to come up with some pretty amazing plays that just make you go "WOW!", but the thing is that he doesn't get many opportunities. They are trying to stay away from him, but he is still quick and smart enough to get there and get involved.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Sherman had an INT where he made a better catch than any receiver I've ever seen. Extended out to about 10 feet and on his absolute tiptoes. I still don't know where he came from and how he got to that ball and caught it. It was amazing.

The play last week where he just baited Bradford all game and snuck in from nowhere to steal an INT and win the game was pretty cool too. He seems to come up with some pretty amazing plays that just make you go "WOW!", but the thing is that he doesn't get many opportunities. They are trying to stay away from him, but he is still quick and smart enough to get there and get involved.


Nice. Do you think he could have made it as an NFL receiver as well? Another thing about Darrell - was in his older years he basically tutored Champ Bailey on how to prepare, be a professional, and maximize his talent. While Champ left here with no loved lost for Snyder and the organization, he credits Darrell Green for being a great mentor when he came into the league. Alot of players would have too much ego to help someone learn all of your tricks.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:43 am 
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Before his injury at Stanford he was ahead of Doug Baldwin on the depth chart if thats any indication.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:45 am 
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The moment I knew Sherman was for real was after the Cincinnati game last year. We lost, but he made AJ Green look like the 5th rounder and he was the top 10 pick. He went into the game calling Green "bad routes and inconsistency" and then backed it up. He ran a route for AJ and turned him into the CB while Sherman made the catch for an INT. We lost that game, sure, but that's where I was sold on Sherman.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:46 am 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
You guys act lie Sherman = Revis. Unbeatable. Do you really believe he can't be caught on or beaten?


How do you think an NFL market that no one cares about gets a good number of mainstream media pundits/analysts/writers to say Sherman's probably the best CB in the league? He hasn't even played two full seasons yet, either.

Just food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:47 am 
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Yes, I'm 100% certain he could have made it as an NFL receiver if Harbaugh wasn't such an assclown. I think he'll get offensive snaps next year if all goes as planned. He is built almost exactly like Sidney Rice who is a pretty decent WR. He is 6'3", quick, has great hands and knows how to get to the ball. I think if he had just continued on his track he would have been at least a 3rd rounder as a WR, especially with Luck throwing to him and helping his status grow.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:51 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Yes, I'm 100% certain he could have made it as an NFL receiver if Harbaugh wasn't such an assclown. I think he'll get offensive snaps next year if all goes as planned. He is built almost exactly like Sidney Rice who is a pretty decent WR. He is 6'3", quick, has great hands and knows how to get to the ball. I think if he had just continued on his track he would have been at least a 3rd rounder as a WR, especially with Luck throwing to him and helping his status grow.


Could you imagine Stanford's offense if they had Sherman out there paired w/ Owusu, rather than having to throw 80% of their passes to TEs... They could have been scary good if Harbaugh knew how to get out of his own way...


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:54 am 
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This is the play where I fell in love with Richard Sherman


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:08 am 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
drdiags wrote:
RiggoReincarnated wrote:
Well, its true. lol


How is he a cheat? Unless benefit of a doubt no longer exists in this country. We can surmise he lucked out on the leaky cup/chain of evidence thing or we can choose to take him at his word that he didn't take the PEDs and his sample was tainted.

Being the skeptics that we all tend to be, lucking out on the results is what most want to believe but until he gets suspended for this one would have to put "suspected" in front of calling the man a cheat.

Riggo, I thought you were a decent guy but this time around is leading me to think you are not what I thought. Continue with your fun and after Sunday, see you down the road.


Being a decent person doesn't mean I have to like all your players or even respect them. Did you think OJ was guilty? I did. Do I think Sherman used something? Yes. He got off on a technicality...good for him and the Seahawks. In retrospect I should have said "probably" before true.

I know we've had people suspended for pot (T. Willliams, F. Davis), and Adderall (C. Griffin, Jordan Black), and our strong safety who was pegged to start is suspended for the whole season. So I'm not acting like we are saints here. I just think Sherman is very lucky...and hopefully for you guys he really is clean because you know Goddell will be going after him after his appeal being victorious.


Um, no. A "technicality" would be if the tester put down the wrong date or didn't initialize everyhwhere he was supposed to. A compromised test isn't a "technicality", not's not a valid test at all, end of story. And Sherman maintained his innocence all along, so I tire of people saying he was lying the whole time and got off on a technicality. He got off because a valid test was never conducted. I don't see how you can declare someone guilty when they haven't been tested.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:14 am 
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Navyhawkfan187 wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
Yes, I'm 100% certain he could have made it as an NFL receiver if Harbaugh wasn't such an assclown. I think he'll get offensive snaps next year if all goes as planned. He is built almost exactly like Sidney Rice who is a pretty decent WR. He is 6'3", quick, has great hands and knows how to get to the ball. I think if he had just continued on his track he would have been at least a 3rd rounder as a WR, especially with Luck throwing to him and helping his status grow.


Could you imagine Stanford's offense if they had Sherman out there paired w/ Owusu, rather than having to throw 80% of their passes to TEs... They could have been scary good if Harbaugh knew how to get out of his own way...


Stanford actually had lots of good receivers while Sherman was there (first Bradford, then Owusu, Baldwin, Whalen). Only after he left did they have to start relying on tight ends. That was because he left at the same time that Baldwin and Whalen did, leaving just Owusu, who when on to suffer frequent injuries due to helmet-to-helmet blows, and Stanford's younger wide-outs didn't rise to the level of their predecessors. On the other hand, Stanford was indeed weak at CB, so while the circumstances of Sherman switching to CB were lame, the outcome actually was good for the team (and Sherman himself, ultimately).


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:09 am 
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True, but on the point of if he was an NFL quality receiver, I think you have to say yes, because he's outplaying almost every NFL receiver he's ever faced. He knows how to run routes, he knows how to get to the ball, he's got the size/speed combo, etc. He is an NFL player and that says a lot. Baldwin's size hurt his draft status, and then the 49ers aren't picking him and teams are wondering what's wrong. Sherman was a great enough athlete with 1 year at a position to get drafted. If he had been playing all along he would have been drafted as a WR earlier I think. Harbaugh was mad that he took a redshirt. Just shows what a selfish dong he is. Richard is too smart for his own good sometimes. Made sure he got his education paid for. What a loon right? /sarcasm off

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:32 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
True, but on the point of if he was an NFL quality receiver, I think you have to say yes, because he's outplaying almost every NFL receiver he's ever faced. He knows how to run routes, he knows how to get to the ball, he's got the size/speed combo, etc. He is an NFL player and that says a lot. Baldwin's size hurt his draft status, and then the 49ers aren't picking him and teams are wondering what's wrong. Sherman was a great enough athlete with 1 year at a position to get drafted. If he had been playing all along he would have been drafted as a WR earlier I think. Harbaugh was mad that he took a redshirt. Just shows what a selfish dong he is. Richard is too smart for his own good sometimes. Made sure he got his education paid for. What a loon right? /sarcasm off


That's really interesting...do you think the paradigm may shift towards taller DBs in the draft now? I wonder if that will then cause people to choose WRs differently...and have more shorter shiftier types to try to combat the physical advantage of the taller DBs. Or will we see more WRs built like TEs to try to be able to box out people like Sherman on passes.


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:43 am 
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Most teams don't use their DB's like Seattle is. Seattle also is in a unique situation in their division with the receivers they have to face. When you have 6 games against teams with bigger receivers, then it helps to have big DB's. As time has gone on the Cards have gotten rid of Bolden, are only using Fitz, the Rams receiving corps has gone small with Amendola now, and the 49ers have Crabtree and Moss, but I don't see Moss sticking around.

I think more teams will see the benefit of having a tall and strong CB, but most teams get by just fine with the shorter dudes. The Hawks have the benefit of having Earl Thomas who is the size of a typical corner playing CF and roaming side to side playing safety. Kam Chancellor is built like a LBer. It is a weird system. The corners play man, and everybody else typically plays a zone.

As for NFL teams going after big CB's.... I don't think there are that many typically available. The big guys tend to be slower and not be NFL players (like Browner was initially, he was a great college CB, but was told he was too big and slow, but played great in the CFL and got his chance and excelled). Sherman was a strange situation as has been covered.

The last really big CB I can recall that made a big impact and was supposedly going to change how teams were going to approach things and how they were going to go after big CB's was Bobby Taylor. He was a great CB, and shut down the likes of Michael Irvin and a few others in his days with the Eagles, and then his career ended early due to injury, and we were back to 5-8 - 5-10 DB's again.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:49 am 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
True, but on the point of if he was an NFL quality receiver, I think you have to say yes, because he's outplaying almost every NFL receiver he's ever faced. He knows how to run routes, he knows how to get to the ball, he's got the size/speed combo, etc. He is an NFL player and that says a lot. Baldwin's size hurt his draft status, and then the 49ers aren't picking him and teams are wondering what's wrong. Sherman was a great enough athlete with 1 year at a position to get drafted. If he had been playing all along he would have been drafted as a WR earlier I think. Harbaugh was mad that he took a redshirt. Just shows what a selfish dong he is. Richard is too smart for his own good sometimes. Made sure he got his education paid for. What a loon right? /sarcasm off


That's really interesting...do you think the paradigm may shift towards taller DBs in the draft now? I wonder if that will then cause people to choose WRs differently...and have more shorter shiftier types to try to combat the physical advantage of the taller DBs. Or will we see more WRs built like TEs to try to be able to box out people like Sherman on passes.

Shark said it pretty well, but going big at CB will become a trend, but not everywhere. Big corners mean more press, and not every scheme favors that.
Put our guys in a tampa-2, and watch them fail. They have to be in a scheme that emphasizes taking away inside leverage and allows them to make QBs go over their length to the sidelines, a more difficult throw. Once QBs start trying to paint the sidelines, we have won.

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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:41 am 
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I liked playing Donkey Kong, I miss the old video arcade days


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 Post subject: Re: It's on like Donkey Kong; 'Skins DT calls Sherman a cheater
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:38 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Sherman had an INT where he made a better catch than any receiver I've ever seen. Extended out to about 10 feet and on his absolute tiptoes. I still don't know where he came from and how he got to that ball and caught it. It was amazing.


Oh absolutely that is one of, if not THE best interception I've ever seen.
It was the first game against Arizona this season, and Skelton, under pressure threw the ball out of bounds and Sherman came up with it. I think everyone watching the game at first thought "incomplete pass... wait interception WHAT!?"


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