Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies

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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:00 am
  • When was the last time Andrew Luck was better than RW? 2010? 2009?
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:02 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Cartire, that's a big no-no. You can post a snippet of the article, but not the whole thing.
    It wasnt the whole article, it was jsut the list. He rambles on for a whole page before the list. But it was very ugly on the paste, so thanks to the mods for cleaning it up.


    Right, but it's a paid article and that was quite a lot of it. The forum rules talk about this, if you need to reference it. just giving you a heads-up. Thanks.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:07 am
  • This must be QB's not rookie QB's... Rogers and Tom Brady didnt even play when they were rookies. They road the pine
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:05 am
  • AF_Hawk wrote:Wow, still can't believe Eli and even Roethlisberger are ahead of Wilson/Griffin. These rookies led their teams to the playoffs AND put up better QBR and qb ratings.


    You are surprised that two qb's that have 4!!!! Superbowl rings between them are ranked over two rookies?

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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:08 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:Wow, still can't believe Eli and even Roethlisberger are ahead of Wilson/Griffin. These rookies led their teams to the playoffs AND put up better QBR and qb ratings.


    You are surprised that two qb's that have 4!!!! Superbowl rings between them are ranked over two rookies?

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    In career rankings, sure. They've rebounded from lesser rookie seasons.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:09 am
  • This is a best qb list right? That is very different from a rookie of the year list. You could rank RW as higher on a OROY but put Luck higher on the qb ranking. The list should also take body of work into account and then IMHO all the top 10 qbs belong as better qbs than any of the 3 rookies. Get back to me after the playoffs and I will be ready to re-review that..... then lets see how next year goes.

    If this was last year everyone would have said Cam Newton should be a top 5 on that list with this mentality. Did you say so? And if so where does he belong today........

    No issue with the list - no real difference between 11, 12 and 13

    Hope we win on Sunday, RW throws 4td's and RG3 throws 4 int's - that is all that matters
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:20 am
  • 8. Joe Flacco

    He lost me.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:23 am
  • youngchew wrote:LOL @ Flacco 8th


    Well, he does have a very strong arm.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:27 am
  • In my thread about Colin Cowherd's picks I listed some stats about Luck and Washington. He interviewed one of the bet makers from Las Vegas that had some really cool stats. Some great info on his show today about the Colts and the Redskins. I would recommend the podcast, I think it's free?

    "interesting facts from the "Wise Guy" Colin had on the show: "Andrew Luck has more INTs than TDs on the road."

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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:30 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:Wow, still can't believe Eli and even Roethlisberger are ahead of Wilson/Griffin. These rookies led their teams to the playoffs AND put up better QBR and qb ratings.


    You are surprised that two qb's that have 4!!!! Superbowl rings between them are ranked over two rookies?

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    Next what? This ranking is based off of this years performance isn't it?
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:36 am
  • AF_Hawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:Wow, still can't believe Eli and even Roethlisberger are ahead of Wilson/Griffin. These rookies led their teams to the playoffs AND put up better QBR and qb ratings.


    You are surprised that two qb's that have 4!!!! Superbowl rings between them are ranked over two rookies?

    NEXT


    Next what? This ranking is based off of this years performance isn't it?



    No, the article clearly states this takes into account QB's previous success. Its an overall current QB's and how they rank in all time compared to each other.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:40 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    No, the article clearly states this takes into account QB's previous success. Its an overall current QB's and how they rank in all time compared to each other.

    Didn't read the article, only watched the video and I didn't even start REALLY listening until I heard the three rookies. My bad.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:57 am
  • There's always the coincidental possibility of a co-ROY award. It all depends on how the votes go, but it would be cool to see RW and RG both get the honor.

    It may be unprecedented for OROY, but there have been 3 co-MVPs: 2003 with McNair and Peyton; 1997 Favre and Barry Sanders; 1960 Norm Van Brocklin and Joe Schmidt.

    There was also one co-DROY. In 1980 the falcons had two LBs who shared the award: Buddy Curry & Al Richardson

    Extra fun fact: in 44 years, 5 overall #1 picks have won OROY, and 3 overall #2 picks.

    Extra extra fun fact: The latest-drafted player to win it was Mike Anderson (#189) drafted in 2000 by Mike Shanahan and the Broncos.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:02 am
  • Roethlisburger is a damn good QB, even if I hate the team, and I have no problem rating him or Eli above the rookies. Also, I think some of the rankings are a lifetime type thing, which is a disadvantage to new players. Eli Manning had a poor 2nd half of the season, but people aren't going to forget how amazing he's been in the postseason the last few years, and his SB wins....just like Big Ben had an off year(for him), but still put up good stats and played well.

    Personally, I think they had Stafford ranked too low there. I also don't agree with Shaub and Ryan. Sure, they have great numbers, but right now, they aren't proven winners, at least Ryan isn't in the postseason. But then again, no rookie is a proven postseason winner yet either, so I guess it makes sense.

    As for RGIII, Luck and Wilson, these are the arguments I've heard that make sense:

    RGIII isn't asked to do as much. He has a 2 read passing offense, and runs a college offense. The SKins tailored his Baylor offense to ease his transition, so while he has production, he actually hasn't run much of an NFL offense.

    Luck has been asked to do more. He has talent around him, has had to pass more to win games (thus upping his INT totals), and he's actually been handed the keys to the ENTIRE offense from day 1. He's been asked to do everything that Brady, Peyton Manning and Rodgers has, and he's handled it. He's making rookies around him better players, and he has as many rushing TD's as Wilson does believe it or not.

    Wilson wasn't handed the keys to the offense right away, and there were some growing pains. I think a lot of his INT's were off the hands of his WRs, and while that has something to do with pass placement, I also think people completely disregard that fact and just claim he has more than RGIII. The national perception is that he started slowlly and grew into the player he is, while Griffin was hot right away (going back to the college/pro argument here). The production and numbers are roughly the same between RGIII and Wilson, so it's become a toss up between the two.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:20 pm
  • AF_Hawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:Wow, still can't believe Eli and even Roethlisberger are ahead of Wilson/Griffin. These rookies led their teams to the playoffs AND put up better QBR and qb ratings.


    You are surprised that two qb's that have 4!!!! Superbowl rings between them are ranked over two rookies?

    NEXT


    Next what? This ranking is based off of this years performance isn't it?


    No it is a qb ranking period and I agree with Jaworski that based on body of work and showing where they are year in year out Manning, Big Ben and even Flaco should be higher than all rookies.

    Do I see a higher ceiling and have higher long term expectations of this years rookies than players like Flacco - yes but that is a different discussion
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:41 pm
  • Get used to Wilson not winning RoY. If it was a fan vote, he'd have a chance, but it's an Associated Press vote, and it's shockingly come to the point where fans are more informed than most of the people covering the sport.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:49 pm
  • RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.


    Jesus, Redskins fans are racist. I'm not saying you believe, or have ever believed, in what you quoted; but that you'd even bring it up is just like...Wow. You guys see racism everywhere. Even places where it doesn't exist. (Cough, our forum.)
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:53 pm
  • Not to mention Griffin plays on the East coast, not going to be a shock that Griffin wins it. (Albeit, he has played very well this year)

    Hawks46 probably made the best case for Luck I've heard but if Luck played as well as Griffin or Wilson have, which is admittedly unfair, then no one would be taking about Griffin or Wilson winning it.

    I don't know, I just want the QB playing for Seattle to have the most wins when it's said and done this year.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:09 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.


    Jesus, Redskins fans are racist. I'm not saying you believe, or have ever believed, in what you quoted; but that you'd even bring it up is just like...Wow. You guys see racism everywhere. Even places where it doesn't exist. (Cough, our forum.)


    I gotta second that, Roland. Sheesh, I had no idea that was even an era. Was it a storied era, an epic era, or just a dumbass thing to say era?
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:13 pm
  • I thought I saw Jaws lobby for RW for ROTY on First take after week 16. Not sure if he changed his mind after week 17. I suppose it's possible to have a lower ranked QB win ROTY though.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:17 pm
  • As I understand it the ROY ballots are collected before the playoffs begin. If that is true, what happens if RG-III wins OROY and then RW beats RG-III & Washington convincingly - then wins out through subsequent playoff games/Super Bowl? This is well within probabilities, so what happens then? Maybe that is why a co-OROY would make a lot of sense. They are both excellent QB's and are very close in many peoples minds, but why is it that the ROY's have to be judged after the regular season, playoff excellence doesn't count????
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:21 pm
  • LawHawk wrote:ELI MANNING???? SCHAUB? FLACCO? WTF??? I can see Ryan and Brees, maybe Roethlisberger. But no way no way no way is Eli Manning or Joe Flacco or Matt Schaub better than our boy.


    I think there's a bit of bias going back to Jaworski's playing days. He was a game manager just like Shaub and CrackHoe (Flacco).
    I'll give Eli the benefit of the doubt because he's definitely better than CrackHoe and Shaub when the game is on his shoulders...he also has a couple if SB's notched in his belt. Wilson would have to have a larger body of evidence and some SB wins to beat him.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:27 pm
  • KDawg_ES wrote:
    jkitsune wrote:But now they're essentially tied statistically. Either one could win it, and I'm guessing that RG3 will, for whatever reason - but that's fine by me. He deserves it every bit as much as RW. They both deserve it more than Luck. In my heart of hearts, I don't know that I honestly believe either RG3 or RW stand out as 'more deserving' than the other.


    I've been trying real hard to think of reasons Griffin deserves it over Wilson... But I'm having a hard time coming up with one other than a lack of turnovers. Wilson's thrown 393 passes (2.5% INT rate) and Griff has thrown 393 passes (1.3% INT rate). Griffin also has more rush TDs and rush yards. But then Wilson has six more passing touchdowns. They're so neck and neck it's crazy. Those six more touchdowns actually translate to him having more touchdowns in total.

    I don't think you can go wrong with having either one of these guys as your franchise quarterback or rookie of the year. Both of our teams hit the lottery with these guys :)

    :2:
    New to the forum but I've been a Seahawk's fan since before probably half of you were born (aka when they started).

    Niceties out of the way, I don't know that you could call RG3 a lottery ticket. The Skins paid a heavy price for him (to the Lambs no less) to get him. He's an expensive but very sound and profitable investment. For the price paid, Five-Eighths (my unsuccessful nickname for him) blows away RG3 as an investment and imo can be easily called a lottery win. That said, I am the opposite of you in that I can't think of a reason to give it to Five Eights over RG3. The only chance he had of pulling an upset would be to have RG3 have an off game (which he did, but obviously that was unknown at the time) and for FE to have another outstanding game. Which he didn't. So the upset probably won't happen, though it's still possible. However, I would rather them have to go through adversity and witness the leadership of the little guy and fight back for a win than to go into DC without having to actually claw through a game for 4 straight games. As much as I'd love to see him win it, I'd rather increase our chances of having a game to watch next weekend.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:24 pm
  • RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.


    I too am curious to know who belongs in that "era" I mean do black quarterbacks like; Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper belong to this era? I seem to recall all these particular quarterbacks to be exemplary. Or perhaps you're talking about the one or two that everyone likes to talk about, JeMarcus Russell and Vince Young and more or less bagging on Vick, to some people have to agree that he is (was) a great athlete and a good quarterback (good not great). If that is the case, regarding (JeMarcus) Russell and Young as an "era" is pretty asinine. More like bad picks that didn't work out.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:37 pm
  • Seahawk_Dan wrote:
    RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.


    I too am curious to know who belongs in that "era" I mean do black quarterbacks like; Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper belong to this era? I seem to recall all these particular quarterbacks to be exemplary. Or perhaps you're talking about the one or two that everyone likes to talk about, JeMarcus Russell and Vince Young and more or less bagging on Vick, to some people have to agree that he is (was) a great athlete and a good quarterback (good not great). If that is the case, regarding (JeMarcus) Russell and Young as an "era" is pretty asinine. More like bad picks that didn't work out.


    I just meant in general. It was a big deal for Doug Williams to win the Super Bowl because previously there was a stereotype amongst much of the NFL that a black quarterback never could lead at that position.

    One thing is for sure, both RGIII and Wilson have the mental acuity the latter 2 you mentioned would dream to have. The ones you mentioned as exemplary, I agree. Though only Moon I feel warrants Hall of Fame material for what he did over the duration of his career....Super Bowl victory or not.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:16 pm
  • Jaworski has NEVER liked RW. I have listened to him consistently on Mike and Mike and he always says "RW is a nice story, but Luck is better than RW". He doesn't like running QBs. He likes QBs like Manning, who sit in the pocket and throws.
    But, what bothers me about people like Jaworski is, he will have all types of praises for Rothlisberger for his "Ability to extend plays and get out of the pocket and throws". How different is Rookie Rothlisberger and Russell Wilson? The only difference is size. Unfortunately , RW can't grow to become as tall or Roth.
    In a couple of years, Johny Mainzel will be coming out of college. He is barely 6ft tall, but he is an excellent runner. I have no doubt nobody will question his size or arm strength.

    Here is Ron Jaworski prior to the 2011 NF Draft:
    Ron Jaworski knows what it takes to be an NFL quarterback. He was a pretty good one, after all. The former Eagle and current ESPN analyst did his homework on the top quarterbacks in the draft, watching hours of tape, and ranked the top seven as such: (1) Blaine Gabbert, Missouri; (2) Newton, Auburn; (3) Colin Kaepernick, Nevada; (4) Christian Ponder, Florida State; (5) Ryan Mallett, Arkansas; (6) Jake Locker, Washington; (7) Andy Dalton, TCU.
    Here is the source:
    http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-28/sports/29483327_1_ryan-mallett-nfl-quarterback-blaine-gabbert
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:34 pm
  • well riggo, do appreciate the attempt to explain yourself, but ya that's pretty bad, and just an unecessary comment, observation, whatever you want to call it... it's 2013 , not the 60's, at least on the west coast anyways...
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:04 pm
  • Colin Kaepernick one slot behind Russell? Explain that one to me.
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:59 pm
  • Not sure where this belongs but was just readin Simmins article and had to tea one part twice. Luck has 28 turnovers. To go with his 18 interceptions he has 10!!!! Fumbles

    Pretty amazing from the rookie of the year.......
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:08 pm
  • When the Lame Stream Corporate media loves you, you can't do no wrong.
    How many Super Bowl has Brett Favre won?
    How many Super Bowls has Payton Manning won?
    You would be shocked by the answer.
    Listening to the Media, one could think ... these guys have won as many SB as Michael Jordan has won NBA championships ... Isn't that ridiculous?

    Unless Andrew Luck turns into ... JaMarcus Russell, Luck will be on TV every single year more than anyone else from the Rookie class.
    I can't complain ONE bit. RW is very comfortable with who he is and he doesn't need the media to validate him.
    RW might become the Tim Duncan of the NFL. The Short Fundamental.
    mikeak wrote:Not sure where this belongs but was just readin Simmins article and had to tea one part twice. Luck has 28 turnovers. To go with his 18 interceptions he has 10!!!! Fumbles

    Pretty amazing from the rookie of the year.......
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Re: Ron Jaworski ranks the rookies
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:39 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.


    Jesus, Redskins fans are racist. I'm not saying you believe, or have ever believed, in what you quoted; but that you'd even bring it up is just like...Wow. You guys see racism everywhere. Even places where it doesn't exist. (Cough, our forum.)

    You guys REALLY have to stop associating the opinions/viewpoints of select fans with the entire fan base of the Washington Redskins.

    The state of Maryland is extremely diverse, in fact as a state it's something like top 5 in the country in terms of percentage of African Americans.

    The counties in Maryland that border DC are also something like 70% African American. I'm sorry for ranting too much about demographics, but it bothers me as a fan of the Redskins when I constantly people take the ignorant comments of other Redskins fans and assume the ENTIRE FANBASE of the Washington Redskins feels the same way.
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