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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:36 am 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Aros wrote:
Look, JSeahawks, I feel ya man. He's got talent. Nobody here argues that. What I argue is that I don't care how talented you are. If you are unable to stay healthy, and you show a history of being unable to stay healthy, you are not worth much to me.

Sorry my man but that is one aspect of the NFL paradigm that I have - and always will - buy into, hook, line and sinker.


No need to apologize. He's my adopt-a-rookie from back in the day. I've sworn an oath to defend him. Plus, one day he'll be healthy and he'll either be great for the Seahawks, or we'll regret giving up on him.

I'd be more concerned if he was having the same injury over and over (See Greg Oden :34853_doh: )but its been just bad luck things. A torn up knee. A broken leg. Then a pulled/torn muscle in his first game back. As soon as his luck turns, he'll be great. If he kept hurting the same knee then i'd be 100% in agreement that we should give up on him. But, not yet.


The situation reminds a lot of Lofa's end here. The team simply has to move on and bring in someone to replace him. Look at is this way, we replaced Lofa's production pretty easily with Hawthorne and now we have a rookie who needs to have a good last game to have a better rookie season than Lofa's.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:00 pm 
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I'm going to channel my inner John Morgan for just a moment - common fans really suck sometimes.

First of all, Walter Thurmond HAS played an entire season for us. 2010. He participated in 14 games. He didn't start, but he was definitely one of the "defensive interns" Pete was developing, along with Kam Chancellor.

Second, I just recoil when physically healthy fans fold their arms, stick their noses in the air, and snidely proclaim what another person's physical problem is. What's the biggest risk YOU take for the Seahawks, getting punched in the stands by some drunk guy in the row below you? Of course it isn't our job to stay healthy, it's the players' job, but the grueling nature of football should induce some understanding from us. That perspective seems lacking sometimes. This is a guy's dream, he's worked hard to overcome it, and luck just hasn't been on his side. Yet we consider it our...birthright? as fans to bash a person when he isn't fully able to perform for us, as if our status as consumers shields us from having to include any other consideration, or gives us the right to vent our frustration by promoting the end of a person's career. It's all about us, like he's offended us somehow.

Third, Walter Thurmond is not draining this team by being unable to stay healthy. As someone else pointed out earlier, there are a myriad of players who have been languishing on the roster and taking up space without actually being a hindrance to anyone. I haven't heard anyone complaining about Jaye Howard's perpetual foot injury and demanding he be cut. Thurmond simply gets this treatment because he's more high-profile and thus higher on the "fan frustration scale", not because of some rock-solid philosophy where every individual on the 53-man roster should be ready to contribute at a moment's notice. No roster in the NFL is like that all the time.

Lastly, give the player some credit for his skill. PC has stuck with this guy through thick and thin, and that says something about his ability as a cornerback - the exact same thing that his play does. He's good. He's not being IR'ed because he's "unable to stay healthy" or some such ridiculous artifice on the level of judging a team's mental fortitude by studying four-second camera shots of the sideline bench. Nor should he be benched for that reason, not with his talent. He's being IR'ed because he might have genuine competition at the position of slot corner, and THAT makes him more replaceable. That's a good reason to put him aside. Until then, whom did you plan on replacing Thurmond? DeSean Shead?

A player struggles with his lifelong dream because of an uncooperative, agonizing leg and WE feel all inconvenienced as fans. Someone tried to defend this position by saying "I'd want Steve Largent gone if he struggled this much too", but he failed to mention how he'd feel if Largent got healthy immediately afterwards and went on to catch 100 touchdowns for a more patient team. If you think that sounds silly, think of Russell Okung.

/sermon

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Last edited by MontanaHawk05 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:05 pm 
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^Amen!


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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:18 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
I'm going to channel my inner John Morgan for just a moment - common fans really suck sometimes.

First of all, Walter Thurmond HAS played an entire season for us. 2010. He participated in 14 games. He didn't start, but he was definitely one of the "defensive interns" Pete was developing, along with Kam Chancellor.

Second, I just recoil when physically healthy fans fold their arms, stick their noses in the air, and snidely proclaim what another person's physical problem is. What's the biggest risk YOU take for the Seahawks, getting punched in the stands by some drunk guy in the row below you? Of course it isn't our job to stay healthy, it's the players' job, but the grueling nature of football should induce some understanding from us. That perspective seems lacking sometimes. This is a guy's dream, he's worked hard to overcome it, and luck just hasn't been on his side. Yet we consider it our...birthright? as fans to bash a person when he isn't fully able to perform for us, as if our status as consumers shields us from having to include any other consideration, or gives us the right to vent our frustration by promoting the end of a person's career. It's all about us, like he's offended us somehow.

Third, Walter Thurmond is not draining this team by being unable to stay healthy. As someone else pointed out earlier, there are a myriad of players who have been languishing on the roster and taking up space without actually being a hindrance to anyone. I haven't heard anyone complaining about Jaye Howard's perpetual foot injury and demanding he be cut. Thurmond simply gets this treatment because he's more high-profile and thus higher on the "fan frustration scale", not because of some rock-solid philosophy where every individual on the 53-man roster should be ready to contribute at a moment's notice. No roster in the NFL is like that all the time.

Lastly, give the player some credit for his skill. PC has stuck with this guy through thick and thin, and that says something about his ability as a cornerback - the exact same thing that his play does. He's good. He's not being IR'ed because he's "unable to stay healthy" or some such ridiculous artifice on the level of judging a team's mental fortitude by studying four-second camera shots of the sideline bench. Nor should he be benched for that reason, not with his talent. He's being IR'ed because he might have genuine competition at the position of slot corner, and THAT makes him more replaceable. That's a good reason to put him aside. Until then, whom did you plan on replacing Thurmond? DeSean Shead?

A player struggles with his lifelong dream because of an uncooperative, agonizing leg and WE feel all inconvenienced as fans. Sheesh. Someone tried to defend this position by saying "I'd want Steve Largent gone if he struggled this much too", but he failed to mention how he'd feel if Largent got healthy immediately afterwards and went on to catch 100 touchdowns for a more patient team. If you think that sounds silly, think of Russell Okung.

/sermon


Your nice rant still doesn't hide the fact that if this guy doesn't learn to avoid injury he won't be on the team.

Teams will not wait year in and year out for a guy to fulfill his dream as you put it.

Why do you think tru is still on this team? Had thurmond showed the ability to stay healthy I am more than convinced Trufant is gone. Instead we have Trufant for the playoffs. How does that sound?

You can bet your sweet ass that Pete and Schnieder are prepping to move on from him. They obviously didn't want to jeopardize the team by holding a roster spot for him going into the playoffs. I am willing to bet that he would be ready in a week or so but with the way it goes with him they couldn't depend on him.

I guess it doesn't matter what happens to him if we learn to not depend on him. That's the worst thing for him as he will get passed by.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:18 pm 
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BASF wrote:
JSeahawks wrote:
Aros wrote:
Look, JSeahawks, I feel ya man. He's got talent. Nobody here argues that. What I argue is that I don't care how talented you are. If you are unable to stay healthy, and you show a history of being unable to stay healthy, you are not worth much to me.

Sorry my man but that is one aspect of the NFL paradigm that I have - and always will - buy into, hook, line and sinker.


No need to apologize. He's my adopt-a-rookie from back in the day. I've sworn an oath to defend him. Plus, one day he'll be healthy and he'll either be great for the Seahawks, or we'll regret giving up on him.

I'd be more concerned if he was having the same injury over and over (See Greg Oden :34853_doh: )but its been just bad luck things. A torn up knee. A broken leg. Then a pulled/torn muscle in his first game back. As soon as his luck turns, he'll be great. If he kept hurting the same knee then i'd be 100% in agreement that we should give up on him. But, not yet.


The situation reminds a lot of Lofa's end here. The team simply has to move on and bring in someone to replace him. Look at is this way, we replaced Lofa's production pretty easily with Hawthorne and now we have a rookie who needs to have a good last game to have a better rookie season than Lofa's.


Well the extreme difference here is that Lofa was a former star for us with a large contract whose body had completely broken down.

Is there something wrong with having a high upside corner coming to compete in training camp who costs pennies?

He's been hurt twice for us! Twice!

Had a major leg break that can happen to pretty much anybody and then once he gets activated midseason he pulls a muscle badly. Which is hardly an indicator of future injuries. It's really not that surprising it occurred for a guy coming off the PUP, it's hard to be in perfect game shape and end up rushing it a bit.

Of course he had the bad knee injury in college, but he'd survived the first three years pretty well.

Two unrelated major injuries, and a bad muscle pull. None of these things are chronic. And you guys want to cut him instead of bringing him into camp to see if he'll avoid the injury bug and play well? I'm sure we really need that backend camp fodder who'll never see a NFL field instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:29 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
At least it looks that way from his tweet.

Quote:
Thx2everyone who has supported me thru thick&thin. It's greatly appreciated.Seems my journey has come 2 an end this yr.Until nxt yr #GETMORE


https://twitter.com/WaltThurm3/status/2 ... 4668181505


Maybe it just means he has been ruled out for this Sunday ....... which is this year's last game.

The first playoff game will be next year in 2013.

Maybe he is just playing with everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
Your nice rant still doesn't hide the fact that if this guy doesn't learn to avoid injury he won't be on the team.


I have never understood the part where staying healthy is a skill to be learned. That just makes no sense to me. This is a run of bad luck, and bad luck is a variable that might clear up. Ergo it makes sense to keep him around until a replacement is found.

That replacement wasn't Tru, by the way. Tru is not the player he once was and certainly didn't play well from the slot.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:41 pm 
* Capt'n Dom *
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
Tech Worlds wrote:
Your nice rant still doesn't hide the fact that if this guy doesn't learn to avoid injury he won't be on the team.


I have never understood the part where staying healthy is a skill to be learned. That just makes no sense to me. This is a run of bad luck, and bad luck is a variable that might clear up. Ergo it makes sense to keep him around until a replacement is found.

That replacement wasn't Tru, by the way. Tru is not the player he once was and certainly didn't play well from the slot.


Bad phasing on my part.... If he can't stay healthy he is gone. Some players can't stay healthy even though they have talent up the wazzu. Hopefully thurmond isn't one.

I stand behind my theory about tru. They cut him and brought him back cause they needed numbers at the corner position. Had thurmond been ready to roll all season and they had confidence he would stay that way I don't see any reason for tru to be on this team.

Now we get tru, and all his liabilities, for the playoffs. I am not thrilled about that. I would much rather have a healthy thurmond and I don't know why seeing as I can't remember what that looks like.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:07 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
Tech Worlds wrote:
Your nice rant still doesn't hide the fact that if this guy doesn't learn to avoid injury he won't be on the team.


I have never understood the part where staying healthy is a skill to be learned. That just makes no sense to me. This is a run of bad luck, and bad luck is a variable that might clear up. Ergo it makes sense to keep him around until a replacement is found.


You might call it "bad luck". However, there are players that are simply "injury prone".....and Walter is not the first!! There have been many players in the NFL who never seem to be able to return to their former capabilities after sustaining a major injury. All the talent in the world is useless if the player cannot be on the playing field. In this league, it's "What have you done for me lately?" From the fan's perspective....two years is a l-o-n-g time. For somebody 20 years old....that's 10% of their lifetime.....that's a very long time.

What is the probability of finding his "replacement" in Free Agency this winter? I'd guesstimate about a 10% chance of finding a player of similar skills.
What is the probability of finding his replacement in the "Draft"? Maybe 20%...but it will usually take a year for him to maximize his skills.

Bottomline...there is no easy answer to finding a player with similar skills who would be ready come September 2013


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 Post subject: Re: Walter Thurmond IR'ed
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Porkchop 2.0

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