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 Post subject: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman just may get out of his suspension after all.

Sherman is claiming the cup that contained his urine sample was leaking, which forced the collector to use a second cup to capture the leakage.

Since the collector had to break the seal on the second cup, the chain of custody was broken. Because the seal was broken, the urine sample could become contaminated. If the story holds up, Sherman’s suspension could be wiped out.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Seattle-Seahawks-CB-Richard-Sherman-using-leaky-cup-defense-to-beat-drug-suspension-122312

didn't see this posted, Hopefully true and can get this dropped and we wont lose Sherman!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Wow he has a decent chance to NOT get suspended.....

Holy crap........


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Even if he's suspended, we'll get him back for the Superbowl. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:15 pm 
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NFL doesn't have to follow its own rules...

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Lords of Scythia wrote:
Even if he's suspended, we'll get him back for the Superbowl. ;)



Be alot cooler though if we dont lose him :D , Just last night he was a huge distraction to the 49ers and is a huge asset to the team.
Truly hoping the league has to take into consideration he seal was broken and this really should be dropped.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:17 pm 
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He said that last night in the post game interview.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:21 pm 
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VaporHawk wrote:
NFL doesn't have to follow its own rules...


Actually they do when it comes to drug testing. If they were to ignoe a blantant testing error (if that is what really happened) than I could see this thing escalating in a lawsuit. DATIA (drug testing association) has explicit rules concerning Chain of custody. If a "fatal flaw" occured in the collection process, that would result in an invalid test and if action was taken against an employee based on this compromised test, this would open the company to legal action by the employee.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:31 pm 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
VaporHawk wrote:
NFL doesn't have to follow its own rules...


Actually they do when it comes to drug testing. If they were to ignoe a blantant testing error (if that is what really happened) than I could see this thing escalating in a lawsuit. DATIA (drug testing association) has explicit rules concerning Chain of custody. If a "fatal flaw" occured in the collection process, that would result in an invalid test and if action was taken against an employee based on this compromised test, this would open the company to legal action by the employee.


I can't speak for the true nature of the agreement on the chain of custody as it pertains to NFL rules, but in law - the chain of custody is everything.

This will come down to if the NFL wants to go through with the positive test findings based on the fact they could be wrong. I would suspect if enough doubt has been cast that the suspension should be overturned and Sherman shouldn't miss any games. Whether or not he actually took Adderall is besides the fact now; it's a lot like letting a criminal walk just because his Miranda rights weren't read to him. Or OJ who wrote a book about how "I would have done it" - all the facts look correct, but the test was clearly botched.

I would say the only argument would be if they really wanted Sherman was to have overwhelming confidence that there was no way that his sample could have been tainted; which would come down to the testing facility testifying to the fact that it was completely unreasonable to think that samples were mixed and/or contaminated. Since the NFL is not a court of law, the suspension could be upheld for that reason. But as a poster states, that leaves the NFL open to a major law suit - as the monetary damages resulting from a civil case would be overwhelming.

If I was Goodell, I'd say "Let's punt and re-examine our processes and suppliers" - meaning let's go beat up the testing facility for "Coug'n It"

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:11 pm 
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For anyone who also follows baseball, doesn't this sound like the same deal that got Ryan Braun's 50 game suspension overturned?


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:13 pm 
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I'm actually pretty optimistic now that he won't be suspended

That would obviously be HUGE. The Seahawks need Sherman if they want to get to the SB.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:17 pm 
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cesame wrote:
I'm actually pretty optimistic now that he won't be suspended

That would obviously be HUGE. The Seahawks need Sherman if they want to get to the SB.


Cesame optimistic about something? THE MAYAN APOCALYPSE IS REAL :stirthepot:


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:24 pm 
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So many people on this board were saying that Sherman should just take the suspension. They wanted to trust blatant speculation and hearsay rather than Sherman's actual explanation.

Water bottle story? Didn't come from Sherm. Crossing swords? Didn't come from Sherman. ALL HE SAID was that he wasn't worried. Thats it, thats all. So many people said, " Well, i heard this and i heard that." You heard many things, but you didnt hear it from Sherm.

There is a difference between fact and speculation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:43 pm 
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“I wish I could,” Sherman said regarding the possibility of the Wapner-Llewelyn option after Sunday night’s thumping of the 49ers. “I don’t know if it’s possible. If I could pursue it further, because I’d win in a neutral court, but I don’t know if I can pursue it further.”

Technically, he can pursue the matter in court. But he’d have to prove that the outcome of the arbitration procedure that arises from the collective bargaining process should be disregarded, and that’s a high standard.

Others have tried, and few (if any) have prevailed. The problem is that the players don’t have the tools at their disposal to challenge irregularities in the collection and testing of their urine samples.

As we’ve previously reported, Sherman planned to raise during the appeal alleged defects in the collection process. Adam Schefter of ESPN reported on Sunday that the cup containing Sherman’s sample was broken, that a second cup was placed under the leaking cup, that the seal on the second cup was broken, and that the chain of custody also was broken.

Under baseball’s testing procedures, that would be enough to overturn the outcome. Since a strict-liability standard is applied to the presence of banned substances in the player’s urine, a strict-liability standard is applied to the testing process. If there’s any flaw, the entire test is rejected.

But NFL and the NFLPA didn’t agree to procedures that impose such stringent obligations on the test collector. Which underscores the notion that the appeals aren’t lost in the hearing room, but that they were forfeited at the bargaining table.


Florio breakdown. Dude, the NFLPA is horrible and an embarrassment.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:44 pm 
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The NFL isn't about to suspend Sherman after last night. They know how much ratings he'll bring them in the playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:45 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
The NFL isn't about to suspend Sherman after last night. They know how much ratings he'll bring them in the playoffs.


That is VERY reasonable. Not only that, Sherman will FOREVER be a thorn in their side. He wont shut-up, he wont drop it, he'll be relentless.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:50 pm 
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So he's guilty but since the UA collector failed to correctly follow procedure its not going to be credible. Yeah buddy!!! I don't see Sherm missing any games. What i am waiting to see is "BREAKING NEWS Richard Sherman suspension dropped". :0190l:


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Masterful defensive effort on and off the field. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Seahawks4life wrote:
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Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman just may get out of his suspension after all.

Sherman is claiming the cup that contained his urine sample was leaking, which forced the collector to use a second cup to capture the leakage.

Since the collector had to break the seal on the second cup, the chain of custody was broken. Because the seal was broken, the urine sample could become contaminated. If the story holds up, Sherman’s suspension could be wiped out.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Seattle-Seahawks-CB-Richard-Sherman-using-leaky-cup-defense-to-beat-drug-suspension-122312

didn't see this posted, Hopefully true and can get this dropped and we wont lose Sherman!!


The problem I have with this(and I have 25 years of random drug testing through D.O.T.)if the sample that was going to be sent to the lab was leaking, they would just send me back for another sample. Of course I realize DOT and NFL guide lines may differ, but why should they?

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Sherman doesn't have to win. He just has to tie up the process until next season and we'll get him through the Superbowl. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:30 pm 
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bellingerga wrote:
cesame wrote:
I'm actually pretty optimistic now that he won't be suspended

That would obviously be HUGE. The Seahawks need Sherman if they want to get to the SB.


Cesame optimistic about something? THE MAYAN APOCALYPSE IS REAL :stirthepot:


If that's optomistic, I must be really out of touch, but I agree that losing him would be the second largest blow our secondary could take. Most people don't realize how Thomas holds that whole thing together.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:30 pm 
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To save face it's a good time for the NFL to dimiss the case, Christmas/New Years. People are busy doing other things.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Not to mention Roger Goodell is going to get publicly raaped for his Salem witch hunt style persecution of the New Orleans Saints organization,
Jonathan Vilma isn't going to let this die. I don't blame him


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:28 pm 
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I only have one question regarding this:

How does Sherman prove the seal was broken? Did he take pictures? I simply cannot believe that his defence is based on his word versus someone else's, I'm just curious as to how he proves that this was the case


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Great defense by a great defender. Which makes my cynical side - okay, yeah, that's the only side I have - wonder if he didn't use something to poke a hole in the container to cause it to leak in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Lords of Scythia wrote:
Sherman doesn't have to win. He just has to tie up the process until next season and we'll get him through the Superbowl. :)

Sherman and his lawyers need to privately threaten Rog and the NFL there will be a big lawsuit against both if the suspension isn't dropped, a lawsuit that Rog and the NFL will LOSE in a court of law.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Maybe his urine is like alien blood and it eats through stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:35 pm 
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SNDavidson wrote:
Maybe his urine is like alien blood and it eats through stuff?


You mean alien as in Autobots? It makes sense why Optimus Prime pisses speed and shiits thunder. Energon > skittles. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:51 pm 
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If the seal was broken an that was documented he will "walk". Either in this appeal or higher level. There is no doubt in my mind ASSUMING that this can be proven. Ryan Braun got off on the claim that the same didn't go straight back despite the handling following the protocol. A professional tester should have redone the test even if it took hours for another sample.

This will be an embarrassment to the NFL if they know Sherman can prove a break in the seal. They just lost face in the bounty issue and won't do it again....


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Cant afford to lose him. Even with Browner back. His presence back there, his trash talk, Swag, and play making abilities can not be matched. I hope this is thrown out! I do not think this team makes it to the Super Bowl without him.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:07 am 
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I read an article about a former Seahawk who won a lawsuit against the NFL because he tested positive and had never taken PEDs. He reached the biggest settlement to date for years of missed pay...ect.

I doubt they want a shot at that again, if indeed there was some sort or wronging.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:22 am 
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Latest tweet from Sherman:

Hoping we play in a just League @nfl. Not a league that allows a tester to mix urine samples. A tester with a history of errors. Has has had to have 6 other tests thrown out and he has only been testing 6months.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:27 am 
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ensett wrote:
Latest tweet from Sherman:

Hoping we play in a just League @nfl. Not a league that allows a tester to mix urine samples. A tester with a history of errors. Has has had to have 6 other tests thrown out and he has only been testing 6months.


you beat me to it.

Man I hope the nfl is nice!


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:51 am 
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ensett wrote:
Latest tweet from Sherman:

Hoping we play in a just League @nfl. Not a league that allows a tester to mix urine samples. A tester with a history of errors. Has has had to have 6 other tests thrown out and he has only been testing 6months.


Not trying to get my hopes up...but sounds like Sherman did his homework. The Worm just might wiggle his way out of this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:41 pm 
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morgulon1 wrote:
Not to mention Roger Goodell is going to get publicly raaped for his Salem witch hunt style persecution of the New Orleans Saints organization,
Jonathan Vilma isn't going to let this die. I don't blame him


It wasn't a witch hunt. Tag's confirmed the players involvement (saying no one should feel good about what had happened) but said the blame should fall on the coaches only. Vilma has nothing to go on. trying to prove Libel against the commish will be darn near impossible to gather evidence suggesting that Goodell maliciously went after him.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:43 pm 
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-The Glove- wrote:
ensett wrote:
Latest tweet from Sherman:

Hoping we play in a just League @nfl. Not a league that allows a tester to mix urine samples. A tester with a history of errors. Has has had to have 6 other tests thrown out and he has only been testing 6months.


Not trying to get my hopes up...but sounds like Sherman did his homework. The Worm just might wiggle his way out of this one.


nice quotable there man, the worm might just wiggle his way out. hah


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:13 pm 
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The really really stupid thing here on the NFL/Testers behalf is all they needed to do was throw out his initial test and have him re-test once he got re-hydrated (usually an hour and a 16 oz. cup of water later).

Unless there is a specific item in their testing procedures that says they don't have to follow a chain of custody (the cup you pee in is the one we have to use), or there is a specific section that says they can not retest you within X amount of hours or days, then it makes absolutely no sense that the tester wouldn't have said "ooops... broken cup, let's retest in an hour. Here's a glass of water. Have a seat and watch some tube or goof around with your phone, and let me know when you're ready to do it again."

I have had a "chain of custody" situation happen before at pain management when they forgot to empty the storage bin you put them in as they got backed up because they were busy. There were multiple unsealed cups and somebody had forgotten to take 3 out when I put mine in. I pointed out when I came out (it's a pass through door that you can put the test in on your side, and the nurse pulls it out from the other). I said that there were multiple cups in there and there was piss all over the place (looked like somebody intentionally splashed all over the place... probably to try to taint all tests and cover themselves for using street drugs) and I was uncomfortable (they were using dixie cups with our names written on them by us). I said I wasn't comfortable with the whole situation. They said that it was their fault and they'd retest me another time. The next time I was tested, they used sealed cups with my info pre-printed on a label by a computer with a permanent seal on the cup that I had to break, and every time since I've had an empty pass through to place the cup in.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Wow, Shark, I've never heard of a lab that sloppy. It would certainly make one suspicious of the validity of any tests run there.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Vilma has been a whiny child about all of this, I'll be shocked if he actually wins anything big against Goodell.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Urine sample compromised
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:42 pm 
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ensett wrote:
Latest tweet from Sherman:

Hoping we play in a just League @nfl. Not a league that allows a tester to mix urine samples. A tester with a history of errors. Has has had to have 6 other tests thrown out and he has only been testing 6months.


Very interesting.......

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