Update on sherman

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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:07 am
  • bestfightstory wrote:I have a hard time believing him because:

    A). He has a lot to lose.
    B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
    C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
    D). I have administered these tests.
    Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
    His story is laughable.

    Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

    I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.


    Yes but if the bottle was faulty in the Navy where I took countless tests over 11yrs they would have dumped that sample and had me drink a bunch of water/coffee and re test with a new bottle. Any fault in the specimen cup invalidates the test, that's why you have to have positive control of the bottle from the time you grab it and inspect it until the tamper seal is placed on it, in the Navy now they even had us tip the bottle upside down on a "chem wipe" to make sure there were no leaks or anything. I have a hard time believing that the NFL sample takers are that careful about things. The test itself is uniform and fail safe yes, but if there is any discrepancy in the actual taking of the sample then the test is invalid. The NFL sample taker should have had Sherman immediately retest with a new specimen cup.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:08 am
  • I want to thank you MTS before I can no longer see your posts for taking less than twenty to prove that you deserve to be on my ignore list. See how I gave you the benefit of the doubt?


    Okay, bye.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:08 am
  • MTS wrote:Please read throughout the thread before posting replies to early replies.

    I admit that I did not know that he denied the initial story. I saw the proof that he is denying that story.

    And for those of you who are saying "innocent until proven guilty"...Im sorry, but hasn't he already been proven guilty?

    He tested positive for Adderall, period. He is guilty, now he must prove his innocence. Notice: this is an "appeal" not a trial.


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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:08 am
  • JSeahawks wrote:
    MTS wrote:Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

    should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

    sigh...


    Yes. It would make me happy.

    I'm all for morality. But i'm even more all for the Seahawks winning a Super bowl.

    MTS, I am all for morality. I believe totally in what you're saying. We shouldn't be happy that someone cheated and got away with it. Which brings me to.....

    Super Bowl XL.

    The Testeverde helmet is a football.

    Super Bowl XL.

    The Ravens have an extra timeout.

    Super Bowl XL.

    Lame scheduling that gives every other team, every year, unfair advantages that Seattle Seahawks annually have to overcome, but which NEVER puts the Hawks in an advantageous position.

    Super Bowl XL.

    Sorry, but after all the times the Hawks have been cheated, well, to quote Clark Gable

    Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn
    Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

    R. Sherman: "I don't want to be an island. I want to be a tourist attraction. You come, I take your money & you go."
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:09 am
  • See ya! Thanks for reading.

    Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:14 am
  • kmedic wrote:Sherman never said he didn't take Adderall or any other PED. All he said was that the truth would come out and that he would be ok. Besides, it is illegal for any NFL employee or player to comment on a pending suspension appeal.

    The defense here reminds me a lot of Ryan Braun a couple years ago. Positive for steroids, but sample tampered with (protocol not followed), therefore results thrown out.

    This could work. If Sherman can subpeona the test taker and he admits to using a broken cup then I don't see how the results hold up.


    This exactly, I couldn't remember who it was in MLB that got their positive test thrown out though. Any inconsistency or fault in the sample gathering process invalidates the test.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:15 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:
    MTS wrote:Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

    should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

    sigh...


    Yes. It would make me happy.

    I'm all for morality. But i'm even more all for the Seahawks winning a Super bowl.

    MTS, I am all for morality. I believe totally in what you're saying. We shouldn't be happy that someone cheated and got away with it. Which brings me to.....

    Super Bowl XL.




    The Testeverde helmet is a football.

    Super Bowl XL.

    The Ravens have an extra timeout.

    Super Bowl XL.

    Lame scheduling that gives every other team, every year, unfair advantages that Seattle Seahawks annually have to overcome, but which NEVER puts the Hawks in an advantageous position.

    Super Bowl XL.

    Sorry, but after all the times the Hawks have been cheated, well, to quote Clark Gable

    Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn


    Well Said
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:15 am
  • bestfightstory wrote:I have a hard time believing him because:

    A). He has a lot to lose.
    B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
    C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
    D). I have administered these tests.
    Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
    His story is laughable.

    Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

    I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.



    Ya I tend to agree.

    Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

    It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

    I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:15 am
  • MTS wrote:Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

    should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

    sigh...


    We're not here to discuss the morality of whether or not it's right or wrong if a NFL player gets away with cheating. We're here to discuss if our starting CB Richard Sherman can win his appeal so that he can freaking play in the playoffs. Obviously, you are not a Hawks fan....

    If you want to talk about whether cheating is right or wrong then send a letter to Roger Goodell or go to church today. Either way, I suggest you take your banter elsewhere. It's pointless in this thread.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 am
  • Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 am
  • MTS wrote:See ya! Thanks for reading.

    Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?


    Sherman commented to Local Radio that the water bottle thing wasn't true. That he wasn't using that as his defense and that "the substance I tested positive for has never been in my body." So keep bringing up a false report by a 3rd hand source that was debunked the day after it was reported.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:17 am
  • kmedic wrote:
    MTS wrote:Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

    should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

    sigh...


    We're not here to discuss the morality of whether or not it's right or wrong if a NFL player gets away with cheating. We're here to discuss if our starting CB Richard Sherman can win his appeal so that he can freaking play in the playoffs. Obviously, you are not a Hawks fan....

    If you want to talk about whether cheating is right or wrong then send a letter to Roger Goodell or go to church today. Either way, I suggest you take your banter elsewhere. It's pointless in this thread.



    Obviously I'm not a Hawks fan because I want a cheater to take the punishment he deserves? Man, marketing is really kicking your @$$ huh?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:18 am
  • MTS wrote:Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.


    Any amphetamine which is what the positive result was, which is what adderall is, lasts a few days at most in your system. Its a very quickly metabolized substance.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:18 am
  • seahawksflow wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:I have a hard time believing him because:

    A). He has a lot to lose.
    B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
    C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
    D). I have administered these tests.
    Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
    His story is laughable.

    Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

    I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.



    Ya I tend to agree.

    Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

    It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

    I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?


    He gets off on a technicality. As I mentioned before, this reminds me a lot of the whole Ryan Braun deal. He was clearly positive, but got off because protocol was broken.

    And for those wondering whether I care or not if he was actually positive? NO. :177692:
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:18 am
  • Sherman commented to Local Radio that the water bottle thing wasn't true. That he wasn't using that as his defense and that "the substance I tested positive for has never been in my body." So keep bringing up a false report by a 3rd hand source that was debunked the day after it was reported.[/quote]

    When I said "bottle" I meant the bottle he urinated in that magically broke and caused them to use an adderall-laced bottle. I already stated that I have heard/understood that he has denied the water-bottle drinking "claim" that someone obviously made up to write the news without any cause or purpose.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:22 am
  • MTS wrote:See ya! Thanks for reading.

    Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?


    The NFL will (or has) talk to the person that administered the test. That person has nothing to hide, it's not like they'll get fired for it. We haven't heard anything about that because they aren't allowed to comment on it.

    I read somewhere that Sherman has been tested before and after the testing in question took place. Haven't heard anything about him testing positive in those cases.

    And to the OP that asked about hair samples. I believe Adderall is like alcohol, it only stays in your system for something like 24 hours. I don't believe it would show up in a hair sample.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:23 am
  • Navyhawkfan187 wrote:
    MTS wrote:Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.


    Any amphetamine which is what the positive result was, which is what adderall is, lasts a few days at most in your system. Its a very quickly metabolized substance.



    What about things that Adderall has been used to cover up? (Not saying this is the case). How long do some of those last in the system?


    kmedic wrote:
    seahawksflow wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:I have a hard time believing him because:

    A). He has a lot to lose.
    B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
    C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
    D). I have administered these tests.
    Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
    His story is laughable.

    Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

    I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.



    Ya I tend to agree.

    Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

    It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

    I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?


    He gets off on a technicality. As I mentioned before, this reminds me a lot of the whole Ryan Braun deal. He was clearly positive, but got off because protocol was broken.



    Thanks for the clarification.
    Last edited by seahawksflow on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:24 am
  • Another issue...

    When they give urinalysis tests (I have done in the past for employment), the test-giver has to sign off that they not only inspected the bottle and that it was unbroken seal, they made me sign off on it, too.

    One thing that makes me wonder:

    If this bottle had broken and he knew it, why did Sherman wait alllll the way until now to appeal it instead of requesting that a new sample be taken on the spot? I don't know...maybe he wanted to wait because he knew the second test would be dirty too?

    Because you know, he could have requested to take the sample again to be sure that something like this didnt happen.

    But of course, what do I know? I am an idiot non-Seahawks fan that just hates Sherman from San Francisco with no education and I am just trolling.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:26 am
  • Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

    Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

    I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am
  • BocciHawk wrote:Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

    Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

    I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...



    Sherman should have complained about the faulty testing and took the sample again on the spot....

    Or would he have no excuse for later then?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:33 am
  • As far as requesting for them to take another sample, two possibilities immediately come to mind. First, these guys get tested all the time, he might very well have thought nothing of it, just a random glitch, move on. It's just not something that immediately jumps to mind as a protest type deal for many people.

    (Side comment -- I won't go through the "naked" body scanners, I don't think they are safe, and when I opt out I often get crap from the security people saying "you know, everyone goes through them, it's not a big deal" yadda yadda. I do think that a lot of people just have the next step in mind and aren't terribly concerned about little weird glitches or things they are expected to deal with and move on from. I'm sure Sherman doesn't enjoy peeing in a cup, and he probably thought it was funny that the guy ended up with piss on his hands because of a leaky cup, and never remotely thought that the right response was to say "wait, I want to give another sample" drink water and wait 20 minutes and all that crap. He probably had better things to do.)

    More to the point, second possibility, I bet the NFL doesn't allow people to give second samples. Some drugs particularly amphetamines can be flushed by water and vitamin C. If you allow second samples, imagine how that works... guy knows he's going to pee hot, so he accidentally cracks the plastic cup while peeing in it, lets the handler figure that out, says he'll give a second sample in 30 minutes, goes over and drinks a quart of water, tries to find and take three or four vitamin C tablets too, and pretends he can't pee, drinks another quart of water, waits another 30 minutes... he might have just reduced his odds of peeing hot from 100% to 30%.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:33 am
  • MTS wrote:Please read throughout the thread before posting replies to early replies.

    I admit that I did not know that he denied the initial story. I saw the proof that he is denying that story.

    And for those of you who are saying "innocent until proven guilty"...Im sorry, but hasn't he already been proven guilty?

    He tested positive for Adderall, period. He is guilty, now he must prove his innocence. Notice: this is an "appeal" not a trial.


    I doubt you would care about Shermans tribulations if the Hawks were 5-7 at this point in the season. Yet, here you are bright and early this Sunday morning on a opposing teams fan forum to vehemently enlighten us on your stance on the matter. Kick-offs not till 5:30. Go for a jog, go to church, watch the early games, read a book. Whatever!!! I'm sure you could find a million other things to do that wouldn't make you look like a troll. Our Hawks are relevant and a threat to your team. That's the only reason you are here. Maybe YOU should...

    MTS wrote:And somehow I am from San Fran? Good god, dumb@ss. Get real and get a life. Sherman isn't your dad, brother, or son. You have no real connection to this random dude. Im sorry I stated my opinion that makes a lot of sense to a lot of other people outside of die-hard obsessed Seahawks fans (even some of you agree).

    SMH. Pathetic.


    When you contradict yourself and bash others for investing so much time in a player, but then spend a fair amount of time trying to convince us that we are lost with our thoughts, it makes you look silly.
    Last edited by Mistashoesta on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:36 am
  • MTS wrote:
    Evil_Shenanigans wrote:The complete absence of any facts or data here are leading to quite a lot of petty bickering. Every argument hear has been based on hearsay. Did he do it? I suspect that he did. Will he be suspended? I suspect so.



    Fact: Sherman tested positive for Adderall
    Fact: It was reported that he stated that he drank from a water bottle
    Fact: Sherman now denies this story
    Fact: Sherman now says it was due to a broken container (obviously laced with adderall, the drug that Brandon Browner among others got caught with and didn't deny).
    Fact: Brandon Browner got caught with the exact same substance.
    Fact: It is nearly impossible for a container to break and then be replaced with another that somehow was magically laced with Adderall.


    Just because you call something a fact does not make it one. Every instance you stated is either alleged or hearsay.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:36 am
  • I have heard that this can be found to be in the body pretty easily even if a second test is needed, along with HGH and other items, mmj.

    So I don't know why the NFL would disallow this. I am assuming we will hear more when the appeal goes on. All I really hope, is that if he did cheat, he pays the price. I think thats fair.

    Or, the NFL should simply say "hey! you are getting paid millions, take whatever drugs/steroids you want and get really big and bad, more action!"

    If every player wants to cheat and get big, just let 'em get big. I couldn't care less as long as it is a level playing field for everyone.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:39 am
  • MTS wrote:
    BocciHawk wrote:Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

    Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

    I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...



    Sherman should have complained about the faulty testing and took the sample again on the spot....

    Or would he have no excuse for later then?


    MTS, you are trolling or have poor reading comprehension.

    In cycling, when you piss test, they give you two or three cups. You pee a little, then pee into the first cup, then pee into the second cup, and if it's a particular class of event, you pee into a third cup. You also give a blood test, and they do the same thing, they fill two or three vials. The first sample of each are tested immediately. The remaining samples are stored cold and only destroyed if the initial tests are negative OR if the initial tests are positive and all appeals have been exhausted.

    The NFL should do the same thing. It's ridiculous that they are using a single sample, and presumably someone making $12 an hour to handle the sample and make sure that the individual really is peeing into the cup aka "meat gazer".

    This $12 per hour person may not be capable of intelligently deciding when someone should resample or not, and as I stated in my earlier post, and is obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a minute, taking a second sample may in fact be a cheating type tactic in and of itself.

    The whole idea of the testing regime that the NFL uses is that the annual test is supposed to be a surprise. You walk into the locker room, and they tell five guys "piss test, now" and they have to do it. If you let them have time to drink water and sit around, possibly with only some minor amount of supervision, you are just asking for the second sample to come out different than the first...
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:39 am
  • Mistashoesta wrote:
    MTS wrote:Please read throughout the thread before posting replies to early replies.

    I admit that I did not know that he denied the initial story. I saw the proof that he is denying that story.

    And for those of you who are saying "innocent until proven guilty"...Im sorry, but hasn't he already been proven guilty?

    He tested positive for Adderall, period. He is guilty, now he must prove his innocence. Notice: this is an "appeal" not a trial.


    I doubt you would care about Shermans tribulations if the Hawks were 5-7 at this point in the season. Yet, here you are bright and early this Sunday morning on a opposing teams fan forum to vehemently enlighten us on your stance on the matter. Kick-offs not till 5:30. Go for a jog, go to church, watch the early games, read a book. Whatever!!! I'm sure you could find a million other things to do that wouldn't make you look like a troll. Our Hawks are relevant and a threat to your team. That's the only reason you are here. Maybe YOU should...

    MTS wrote:And somehow I am from San Fran? Good god, dumb@ss. Get real and get a life. Sherman isn't your dad, brother, or son. You have no real connection to this random dude. Im sorry I stated my opinion that makes a lot of sense to a lot of other people outside of die-hard obsessed Seahawks fans (even some of you agree).

    SMH. Pathetic.


    When you contradict yourself and bash others for investing so much time in a player, but then spend a fair amount of time trying to convince us that we are lost with our thoughts, it makes you look silly.



    Bright and early? For you, maybe. Its 12:30PM here (in Missouri). Contradict myself? Hardly. Would I care if the Seahawks are 5-7? I don't know. I still support the chiefs and they currently have 2 wins, what do you think?

    Thanks for adding to the conversation and being completely off topic, though! Your insight has been great!
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:41 am
  • BocciHawk wrote:
    The whole idea of the testing regime that the NFL uses is that the annual test is supposed to be a surprise. You walk into the locker room, and they tell five guys "piss test, now" and they have to do it. If you let them have time to drink water and sit around, possibly with only some minor amount of supervision, you are just asking for the second sample to come out different than the first...



    You do realize, you went back like 3 pages to quote that, right? You didn't post what you re-quoted of yourself until pages later and I responded directly underneath.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:45 am
  • MTS wrote:I have heard that this can be found to be in the body pretty easily even if a second test is needed, along with HGH and other items, mmj.


    I'm sorry, this is just totally wrong. Do some research.

    Amphetamines are water soluble. They flush quickly. Even without special efforts, if you are talking about someone taking Adderall on a Thursday night for a test Friday, they will pee clean Sunday. If you drink extra water and take vitamin C, drink coffee to produce extra urine, you might be able to be clean in 12 hours, certainly 24.

    THC is fat soluble. Same with LSD and many other psychoactives. It can stay stored in body fat for long periods of time, even years for chronic users. It's difficult to flush. Most tests will not detect it after a few weeks, because they aren't sensitive enough, but some tests (like human hair) can pick it up for years, if they are done properly with expensive modern equipment.

    BTW, if your comment was correct, you'd think the answer would be super simple -- just test Sherman now. If he's clean, he was clean, and if he's dirty, then he was probably dirty then too. The NFL isn't doing that and Sherman isn't suggesting that, so you can tell from the behavior that this isn't a workable situation. Frankly, it would be cool if it was! You'd just have people give one sample, if it was hot, bring them in a few days or a week later, make them retest, and that would be the "appeal"...
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:45 am
  • My question is I read where they took these tests early or in pre season, if i'm wrong please correct me, but why did they wait till now to start putting out results and suspending. Not just us but look across the whole league, if this was a virus they would call it a epidemic. Almost all these suspensions and claims happened in a three week period.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:48 am
  • MTS wrote:
    BocciHawk wrote:
    The whole idea of the testing regime that the NFL uses is that the annual test is supposed to be a surprise. You walk into the locker room, and they tell five guys "piss test, now" and they have to do it. If you let them have time to drink water and sit around, possibly with only some minor amount of supervision, you are just asking for the second sample to come out different than the first...



    You do realize, you went back like 3 pages to quote that, right? You didn't post what you re-quoted of yourself until pages later and I responded directly underneath.


    What? I never quoted myself, or went back three pages... I'm writing, you know, from personal knowledge, opinion, etc.

    When I quoted you, it was a comment made very recently... and my comment on it was totally off the cuff.

    Step away from the crack pipe... oh, and by the way, crack is water soluble, so if you stop smoking now, you'll probably be clean by Tuesday.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:48 am
  • BocciHawk wrote:
    MTS wrote:I have heard that this can be found to be in the body pretty easily even if a second test is needed, along with HGH and other items, mmj.


    I'm sorry, this is just totally wrong. Do some research.

    Amphetamines are water soluble. They flush quickly. Even without special efforts, if you are talking about someone taking Adderall on a Thursday night for a test Friday, they will pee clean Sunday. If you drink extra water and take vitamin C, drink coffee to produce extra urine, you might be able to be clean in 12 hours, certainly 24.

    BTW, if your comment was correct, you'd think the answer would be super simple -- just test Sherman now. If he's clean, he was clean, and if he's dirty, then he was probably dirty then too. The NFL isn't doing that and Sherman isn't suggesting that, so you can tell from the behavior that this isn't a workable situation. Frankly, it would be cool if it was! You'd just have people give one sample, if it was hot, bring them in a few days or a week later, make them retest, and that would be the "appeal"...


    Dude, I highly doubt that if they tested him straight up and it was positive, 5 minutes later they tested him again it would be negative. Yes, it can be washed out, but it would like take gallons of water to do so, not 32 oz or something needed to get a second sample within a 20-30 minute period.

    Also, you act like they were looking specifically for one drug, adderall, and they weren't. I highly, highly doubt he could instantly and completely flush it.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:50 am
  • chris98251 wrote:My question is I read where they took these tests early or in pre season, if i'm wrong please correct me, but why did they wait till now to start putting out results and suspending. Not just us but look across the whole league, if this was a virus they would call it a epidemic. Almost all these suspensions and claims happened in a three week period.


    Someone who has all the details in memory or wants to do the research will clean this up, but I think the test was September 8th, first week of the regular season, and they sat on the results for at least six weeks, until late October. When the players are notified, they can appeal, and the league takes some time to schedule the appeals, and in the case of Sherman, he had his appeal delayed... so you end up in December.

    It is a bit of an epidemic, regardless, I think there's been 20+ suspensions for PEDs across the league. Many of them defensive backs, many of them stating it was for Adderall (though there's some question about that given that the NFL won't say which PED was tested positive, and many are possibly using steroids and then in the court of public opinion claiming it's Adderall).
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:51 am
  • BocciHawk wrote:
    MTS wrote:
    BocciHawk wrote:
    The whole idea of the testing regime that the NFL uses is that the annual test is supposed to be a surprise. You walk into the locker room, and they tell five guys "piss test, now" and they have to do it. If you let them have time to drink water and sit around, possibly with only some minor amount of supervision, you are just asking for the second sample to come out different than the first...



    You do realize, you went back like 3 pages to quote that, right? You didn't post what you re-quoted of yourself until pages later and I responded directly underneath.


    What? I never quoted myself, or went back three pages... I'm writing, you know, from personal knowledge, opinion, etc.

    When I quoted you, it was a comment made very recently... and my comment on it was totally off the cuff.

    Step away from the crack pipe... oh, and by the way, crack is water soluble, so if you stop smoking now, you'll probably be clean by Tuesday.



    Dude: The quote that you quoted me from was from page 4. Your next response appeared on page 5, my next response was underneath that, then you went back to page 4 again and quoted me telling me Im stupid.

    Maybe you should get off the crack pipe, oh and if you drink 20oz of water or something, I hear amphetamines go away instantly!
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:58 am
  • MTS wrote:
    BocciHawk wrote:
    MTS wrote:I have heard that this can be found to be in the body pretty easily even if a second test is needed, along with HGH and other items, mmj.


    I'm sorry, this is just totally wrong. Do some research.

    Amphetamines are water soluble. They flush quickly. Even without special efforts, if you are talking about someone taking Adderall on a Thursday night for a test Friday, they will pee clean Sunday. If you drink extra water and take vitamin C, drink coffee to produce extra urine, you might be able to be clean in 12 hours, certainly 24.

    BTW, if your comment was correct, you'd think the answer would be super simple -- just test Sherman now. If he's clean, he was clean, and if he's dirty, then he was probably dirty then too. The NFL isn't doing that and Sherman isn't suggesting that, so you can tell from the behavior that this isn't a workable situation. Frankly, it would be cool if it was! You'd just have people give one sample, if it was hot, bring them in a few days or a week later, make them retest, and that would be the "appeal"...


    Dude, I highly doubt that if they tested him straight up and it was positive, 5 minutes later they tested him again it would be negative. Yes, it can be washed out, but it would like take gallons of water to do so, not 32 oz or something needed to get a second sample within a 20-30 minute period.

    Also, you act like they were looking specifically for one drug, adderall, and they weren't. I highly, highly doubt he could instantly and completely flush it.


    READ my earlier comment. It's a gradient. From the moment the drug is in your system, it's going away. At some point, it goes away enough that the test won't pick it up. You can accelerate the rate that it's going away by doing many things... drinking water, coffee, and vitamin C are all easy ones. If you can't produce urine, these protocols -- and I don't know the NFL rules -- usually say to drink some water, up to 32 ounces or so, and wait 20 or 30 minutes, then try to pee.

    My whole point is that say for arguments sake that a player had been taking Adderall. They stopped two days ago, so they knew they probably would be OK, but weren't sure. They get a test sprung on them as a surprise. ON PURPOSE, they break the cup, pee on their hands, something like that, and state they want to take a second sample. If the NFL allowed that, it would be a MAJOR way to cheat. They could say they need time to pee, drink water, wander off, possibly find some vitamin C in their locker... you get the idea, it becomes a way to cheat, the second sample, if it's gathered after the first sample, from a fresh batch of diluted urine.

    I might also add that the first urine of the day is way more concentrated than any urine after that... so it is well known that if you know you are being tested that day, you want to wake up, pee, drink a bunch of water, have some coffee, pee again, and drink some more water... then go in for your test.

    I'm not suggesting that if you take Adderall, drink 32 ounces of water, and get tested, all in a 30 minute period, that you'll be clean. That's ridiculous. I am saying that if you took Adderall two days ago, had been drinking water, coffee, vitamin C, walked in and were confronted with a test, that you'd significantly improve your chances of testing clean if you intentionally screwed up your first sample.

    Long story short, people who simply suggest that Sherman should have said "dude, this cup is cracked, I need to give a second sample" are being naive as I would assume the NFL does NOT allow this as part of the testing process.

    (The NFL SHOULD routinely take multiple samples from the same urination, and store the extra samples for testing if there's a positive result on the primary, but they apparently don't, which is just stupid and lazy.)
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:59 am
  • MTS wrote:And for those of you who are saying "innocent until proven guilty"...Im sorry, but hasn't he already been proven guilty?

    He tested positive for Adderall, period. He is guilty, now he must prove his innocence. Notice: this is an "appeal" not a trial.


    Like so much of what you've posted in this thread, wrong.

    You don't have to prove your innocence when you appeal, you challenge the legality of the "conviction" (since this isn't a court of law, that'd be the suspension). In this case, Sherman is charging that the evidence (the urine) shouldn't have been admissible because the agreed to procedure was not followed... that's all he is going to need to prove.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:01 am
  • All the reports of what he "claimed" before are just bogus. Nobody has been allowed to talk about anything, nobody knows as much as they think they do.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:04 am
  • MTS wrote:Dude: The quote that you quoted me from was from page 4. Your next response appeared on page 5, my next response was underneath that, then you went back to page 4 again and quoted me telling me Im stupid.

    Maybe you should get off the crack pipe, oh and if you drink 20oz of water or something, I hear amphetamines go away instantly!


    I am not attacking you personally, I just think that there's a lack of knowledge in this particular area.

    Page 4 starts with the first post at 10:07 AM Pacific time. That's less than an hour ago. I did not reach back into the annals of history when selecting quotes...
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:07 am
  • I think MTS is being fairly reasonable. I love my Seahawks, but if he did in fact cheat he needs to pay the pauper.

    I'm ok with waiting through the appeal process, but I definately lean towards him being guilty. Sounds like he's trying to get off on a technicality to me.

    Just my two cents.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:09 am
  • Davehawk wrote:I think MTS is being fairly reasonable. I love my Seahawks, but if he did in fact cheat he needs to pay the pauper.

    I'm ok with waiting through the appeal process, but I definately lean towards him being guilty. Sounds like he's trying to get off on a technicality to me.

    Just my two cents.


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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:12 am
  • I look at it like this:

    No one here not me, not any of you know for a 100% fact that he did or did not get caught with PED.

    In fact, it appears none of us are even sure what the correct NFL drug testing protocol is in regards to the broken cup that is being claimed. With that in mind, I presented my opinion and why I believe it and a lot of people have presented theirs (although, I find the ones who think he isnt guilty just wanted to throw out personal attacks or call me a troll or whatever, rather than having any type of sensible argument...but, what can you expect?)

    The bottom line here is: if he is guilty, I hope he pays. If he isn't (which I doubt), I hope he gets off and is cleared.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:16 am
  • CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
    Davehawk wrote:I think MTS is being fairly reasonable. I love my Seahawks, but if he did in fact cheat he needs to pay the pauper.

    I'm ok with waiting through the appeal process, but I definately lean towards him being guilty. Sounds like he's trying to get off on a technicality to me.

    Just my two cents.


    Where do you want the change sent?



    I don't know what you think....but this isn't very clever....

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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:38 am
  • MTS wrote:First one lie and now another?

    SMH, my god, man. Take your punishment and learn your lesson!

    I am all for the Hawks being as good as possible, but one someone does something to get some type of advantage (one way or another), you need to pay. The fact that he is lying over and over and doing this is really disgraceful to this organization.

    I hope he serves the sentence he definitely deserves. I hate liars and I hate cheaters, even if they are on my own team.

    Another thing that is disheartening are all of the comments about "oh I hope he gets by". Really? No morals or sportsmanship or anything? I know this prescription drug isn't necessarily the most enhancing one available, but if it didn't do something, why did he take it?



    And you know this for a fact? With out a doubt? So you were there? Your post is a disgrace to Seahawks.net
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:43 am
  • CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
    Davehawk wrote:I think MTS is being fairly reasonable. I love my Seahawks, but if he did in fact cheat he needs to pay the pauper.

    I'm ok with waiting through the appeal process, but I definately lean towards him being guilty. Sounds like he's trying to get off on a technicality to me.

    Just my two cents.


    Where do you want the change sent?


    ?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:43 am
  • MTS wrote:First one lie and now another?

    SMH, my god, man. Take your punishment and learn your lesson!


    The whole wrong water bottle thing was a rumor that was false, and Sherman said he had no clue where it came from. Get over your propped-up moral high ground with incorrect facts.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:02 pm
  • The cup thing is maybe reasonable if they did indeed use another cup.

    I mean Browner and Winston got hit too, but then why did Browner appeal...

    I just hope he get's cleared so other fans can't call him a cheater.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:08 pm
  • Have any of the fools who think that "the authority is always right" ever been around a family court disputed custody case? Have you (addressing men here) ever been falsely accused of domestic violence, or even worse, falsely accused of rape? Have you had an ex in family court swear under oath to lies about how you supposedly "abused" your children? Do you understand how biased the process can be against innocent people, based on societal presumptions of "guilty until proven innocent" Yes, there are "lab tests" involved here, but it's sounding like the NFL is sloppy and disorganized and unprofessional about how they conduct their tests. Maybe someone with detailed knowledge of NFL testing protocols could provide a link to any details they have.
    Have any of you ever heard of the Duke Lacrosse case, and how the players were convicted in the media, suspended from school, over bogus rape allegations.
    Read this article about the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case and come back and tell us how authority is always right, people in high official positions never lie, and the people accused are always guilty.
    Sure, there are some differences in circumstances, but the point is that when people's livelihood and reputation are at stake, the evidence process better be damn good, not sloppy, and blind "trust in the authorities" leads to corruption and abuses like the Duke Lacrosse team.
    For all we know, the $12/hour contract lab tech who took the sample is working for a company owned by a buddy of Goodell's, has some sort of sociopathic personality disorder, is a 49ers fan to boot, and decided to have a little fun, exercise a little power, by dropping a chunk of a banned substance into Sherman's sample. An organization as big and rich as the NFL has no excuse for running a sloppy and unprofessional testing program, if that's what we learn through this process. However, the information we're working with is extremely limited. Do you *blindly trust* the NFL authorities?
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:09 pm
  • Im in the military and we do urinalysis all the time. If it works anyway like the military, there should have been a witness, if the witness testifies what sherm is saying is true...he will get off without punishment.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:14 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:Have any of the fools who think that "the authority is always right" ever been around a family court disputed custody case? Have you (addressing men here) ever been falsely accused of domestic violence, or even worse, falsely accused of rape? Have you had an ex in family court swear under oath to lies about how you supposedly "abused" your children? Do you understand how biased the process can be against innocent people, based on societal presumptions of "guilty until proven innocent" Yes, there are "lab tests" involved here, but it's sounding like the NFL is sloppy and disorganized and unprofessional about how they conduct their tests. Maybe someone with detailed knowledge of NFL testing protocols could provide a link to any details they have.
    Have any of you ever heard of the Duke Lacrosse case, and how the players were convicted in the media, suspended from school, over bogus rape allegations.
    Read this article about the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case and come back and tell us how authority is always right, people in high official positions never lie, and the people accused are always guilty.
    Sure, there are some differences in circumstances, but the point is that when people's livelihood and reputation are at stake, the evidence process better be damn good, not sloppy, and blind "trust in the authorities" leads to corruption and abuses like the Duke Lacrosse team.
    For all we know, the $12/hour contract lab tech who took the sample is working for a company owned by a buddy of Goodell's, has some sort of sociopathic personality disorder, is a 49ers fan to boot, and decided to have a little fun, exercise a little power, by dropping a chunk of a banned substance into Sherman's sample. An organization as big and rich as the NFL has no excuse for running a sloppy and unprofessional testing program, if that's what we learn through this process. However, the information we're working with is extremely limited. Do you *blindly trust* the NFL authorities?




    So, you think the NFL choooses random players and decided to punish them? "Oh, look at the Richard Sherman guy, we hate him, lace his test with Adderall! Do it with Brandon Browner's too, but he will just take the ban because he is a pushover!"

    If this is what you believe, don't have children.

    And why Sherman? Why not someone like Russell Wilson or Lynch or Tate or Rice? Poor, poor little baby Sherman! All he does is keep his mouth closed and play a respectable game for an honest and decent living!

    Get real.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:14 pm
  • MTS wrote:
    BocciHawk wrote:Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

    Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

    I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...



    Sherman should have complained about the faulty testing and took the sample again on the spot....

    Or would he have no excuse for later then?

    We have no way of knowing whether he complained on the spot or not.
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Re: Update on sherman
Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:15 pm
  • morgulon1 wrote:
    MTS wrote:First one lie and now another?

    SMH, my god, man. Take your punishment and learn your lesson!

    I am all for the Hawks being as good as possible, but one someone does something to get some type of advantage (one way or another), you need to pay. The fact that he is lying over and over and doing this is really disgraceful to this organization.

    I hope he serves the sentence he definitely deserves. I hate liars and I hate cheaters, even if they are on my own team.

    Another thing that is disheartening are all of the comments about "oh I hope he gets by". Really? No morals or sportsmanship or anything? I know this prescription drug isn't necessarily the most enhancing one available, but if it didn't do something, why did he take it?



    And you know this for a fact? With out a doubt? So you were there? Your post is a disgrace to Seahawks.net



    U mad bro? :th2thumbs:
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