Game plan for Kaepernick: Force him out of the pocket?

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  • Also like to add that I'm sure Kearly has watched tons of tape on Kaep. It's almost a job for the guy. He's said over numerous threads that he wanted the Hawks to draft him. I would even wager that he has watched more "tape" on Kaep than most Niner fans.
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  • amill87 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    OK...I don't know how else to put this...WATCH THE GAMES. He is ACCURATE outside the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. When he was drafted Trent Dilfer said he was the most accurate QB he had ever seen on the run. If you don't believe me, I have in on Youtube as a part of all of the Niner picks that year. I also have a video of a bunch of his college film where he is...wait for it...running and throwing accurately downfield. I can supply that as well but my assumption is that you wouldn't want to waste your time watching Niner vids (I'd be the same way...lol).

    This is college tape. I get that, but he has shown signs of the same stuff both in practice and in games. Some plays have been called back on holding and some have been drops by the TE/WR (Delanie Walker can be maddening at times).

    Alex Smith and Sam Bradford have NEVER shown signs of that on any level. Alex in particular...and I like Alex...lol. My assumption isnt "yeah, he'll get better because they all do". Its that I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT!!


    So you have youtube highlights as your evidence?

    I openly admit I haven't seen tons of Kaep but what I have seen from as a passer hasn't made think "wow he's one of the best in the league". His running ability scares me much more than his arm. I HAVE seen him miss wide open guys quite often in such a small sample size. Every QB misses guys but IMO I have seen an alarming amount of misses. Like I said, I think you guys like Kaep so much because he is NOT Alex Smith



    Sigh...No....I WATCHED THE GAMES. Am I speaking a different language? LOL. I don't know how to make this more clear...

    As for the Highlight reel on Youtube, I MADE it. I POSTED it. I WATCHED THE GAMES (maybe if I say it a bunch of times people will see it...lol).

    As for missing an "alarming number of times", the 65+% comp % would disagree with you. So would his 8.4 yards per attempt (best in the NFL among starting QBs). Then again, I've been saying stats don't tell the whole story...so disregard that. :D

    The only player he's had an issue with on overthrows is Vernon Davis. They haven't quite been on the same page. Vernon has told Colin that he's not as fast as Colin thinks he is and to take something off the ball when throwing to him. LOL. They have a running joke that Vernon wants Colin to stop working out so much (gymrat) because his arm is already strong enough. LOL.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • amill87 wrote:Also like to add that I'm sure Kearly has watched tons of tape on Kaep. It's almost a job for the guy. He's said over numerous threads that he wanted the Hawks to draft him. I would even wager that he has watched more "tape" on Kaep than most Niner fans.


    I don't doubt it. I knew the Niners were going to take a QB last year so I got my hands on everything I could find in regards to just about every draft eligable QB there was.

    I was SOOOOOOOOO happy they didn't take Gabbert. LOL!! WHEW!!

    Some of his criticism is correct in regards to Kaep...WHEN HE WAS IN COLLEGE. The "One-read" thing in particular. It just isn't the case anymore. Now there are times that he stays on his #1 longer than he should because he is always trying to hit the big play...the deep pass. THAT is fair, but he has thrown multiple TDs this year to his second or 3rd options.

    My biggest concern with Kaep tho when he was drafted was his delivery. Really long with inconsistent angles. Just...Odd. They appear to have doe something with it. Not sure what. It's still a bit funky, but his delivery is MUCH faster than it was in college.

    I'm not trying to slam Kearly or something. I don't even know him. I simply completely disagree with his assessment of the player Kaep is RIGHT NOW.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:OK...I don't know how else to put this...WATCH THE GAMES. He is ACCURATE outside the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. When he was drafted Trent Dilfer said he was the most accurate QB he had ever seen on the run. If you don't believe me, I have in on Youtube as a part of all of the Niner picks that year. I also have a video of a bunch of his college film where he is...wait for it...running and throwing accurately downfield. I can supply that as well but my assumption is that you wouldn't want to waste your time watching Niner vids (I'd be the same way...lol).

    This is college tape. I get that, but he has shown signs of the same stuff both in practice and in games. Some plays have been called back on holding and some have been drops by the TE/WR (Delanie Walker can be maddening at times).

    Alex Smith and Sam Bradford have NEVER shown signs of that on any level. Alex in particular...and I like Alex...lol. My assumption isnt "yeah, he'll get better because they all do". Its that I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT!!

    I do waste my time watching Niner games. I record most of their games on Direct TV, I like knowing the competition. I see that you don't, no biggie, but it explains your rose colored glasses. I was on point with Colin in college too, Seattle was in the QB market that year.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:OK...I don't know how else to put this...WATCH THE GAMES. He is ACCURATE outside the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. When he was drafted Trent Dilfer said he was the most accurate QB he had ever seen on the run. If you don't believe me, I have in on Youtube as a part of all of the Niner picks that year. I also have a video of a bunch of his college film where he is...wait for it...running and throwing accurately downfield. I can supply that as well but my assumption is that you wouldn't want to waste your time watching Niner vids (I'd be the same way...lol).

    This is college tape. I get that, but he has shown signs of the same stuff both in practice and in games. Some plays have been called back on holding and some have been drops by the TE/WR (Delanie Walker can be maddening at times).

    Alex Smith and Sam Bradford have NEVER shown signs of that on any level. Alex in particular...and I like Alex...lol. My assumption isnt "yeah, he'll get better because they all do". Its that I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT!!

    I do waste my time watching Niner games. I record most of their games on Direct TV, I like knowing the competition. I see that you don't, no biggie, but it explains your rose colored glasses. I was on point with Colin in college too, Seattle was in the QB market that year.


    Sigh...Rose Colored glasses.

    I have direcTV as well but not the Sunday Ticket. I have 2 kinds and don't have the time to watch all the games I would like on Sundays. That's why I am not saying anything to you guys about Wilson. I've seen most of the National games he's played, but thats not enough to form an opinion I'd argue for. I've watched football tho for almost 30 years so I know what I'm seeing when I watch football. That was the reason I DEPARATELY wanted the 49ers to draft Aaron Rodgers over Alex Smith. LOL. I kept hoping they would trade Alex and somehow trade back into round one to get Aaron (I was obviously deparate as that would clearly never happen). Aaron probably would never have become what he is now in that Nolan/Singletary disfunction, but I liked Aaron MUCH, MUCH more than Alex.

    Yeah...I really liked Colin in college, but I have to admit the delivery really threw me. They have done some work with him tho. Its MUCH faster now than it was in college. I'm also not wild about the way he sometimes holds the ball Walter Payton-style...and that's NOT a complimant. He holds it like a loaf of bread sometimes. He seems to be better at tucking it away (when he's not fumbling the snap) in recent weeks...but it had me nervous.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:OK...I don't know how else to put this...WATCH THE GAMES. He is ACCURATE outside the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. When he was drafted Trent Dilfer said he was the most accurate QB he had ever seen on the run. If you don't believe me, I have in on Youtube as a part of all of the Niner picks that year. I also have a video of a bunch of his college film where he is...wait for it...running and throwing accurately downfield. I can supply that as well but my assumption is that you wouldn't want to waste your time watching Niner vids (I'd be the same way...lol).

    This is college tape. I get that, but he has shown signs of the same stuff both in practice and in games. Some plays have been called back on holding and some have been drops by the TE/WR (Delanie Walker can be maddening at times).

    Alex Smith and Sam Bradford have NEVER shown signs of that on any level. Alex in particular...and I like Alex...lol. My assumption isnt "yeah, he'll get better because they all do". Its that I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT!!

    I do waste my time watching Niner games. I record most of their games on Direct TV, I like knowing the competition. I see that you don't, no biggie, but it explains your rose colored glasses. I was on point with Colin in college too, Seattle was in the QB market that year.


    Sigh...Rose Colored glasses.

    I have direcTV as well but not the Sunday Ticket. I have 2 kinds and don't have the time to watch all the games I would like on Sundays. That's why I am not saying anything to you guys about Wilson. I've seen most of the National games he's played, but thats not enough to form an opinion I'd argue for. I've watched football tho for almost 30 years so I know what I'm seeing when I watch football. That was the reason I DEPARATELY wanted the 49ers to draft Aaron Rodgers over Alex Smith. LOL. I kept hoping they would trade Alex and somehow trade back into round one to get Aaron (I was obviously deparate as that would clearly never happen). Aaron probably would never have become what he is now in that Nolan/Singletary disfunction, but I liked Aaron MUCH, MUCH more than Alex.

    Yeah...I really liked Colin in college, but I have to admit the delivery really threw me. They have done some work with him tho. Its MUCH faster now than it was in college. I'm also not wild about the way he sometimes holds the ball Walter Payton-style...and that's NOT a complimant. He holds it like a loaf of bread sometimes. He seems to be better at tucking it away (when he's not fumbling the snap) in recent weeks...but it had me nervous.

    My concerns about Kaep are more conjecture based on non mechanical things, and I won't share them here because they are about his personality, and they are my opinion only. I will say San Fran coaches have done tons with his footwork and release. The way he carries the ball probably won't change much, it has been a part of his game for a while now, and besides, the second a scrambling QB tucks the ball, the D knows he isn't throwing. Some of the issues that plagued Matt Hasselbeck never really went away either. Colin's hands are smallish, fumbles may always be an issue, especially in cold weather games. It always plagued one of our best quarterbacks of yester year, Dave Kreig.

    On topic, the reason Seattle should try to get him out of the pocket is that as of yet, he has not been effective there, and in pass situations, we will have Irvin chasing, and he is faster than Colin. We had two different players, Wagner and Irvin, chase Cam Newton down from behind, so we do have the speed.

    Will we? Probably not. Jason Jones is out for the year, and was ineffective for weeks now anyway, but we don't collapse the pocket all that well. I like Colin's ability to hit sideline throws over defenders, which is often what we try to make QBs do, so he will probably hit a few there.

    Mostly, I want to see what he does if he has to play from behind. that is one thing we have not seen from him, outside of the game where he was subbing against the rams.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:OK...I don't know how else to put this...WATCH THE GAMES. He is ACCURATE outside the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. When he was drafted Trent Dilfer said he was the most accurate QB he had ever seen on the run. If you don't believe me, I have in on Youtube as a part of all of the Niner picks that year. I also have a video of a bunch of his college film where he is...wait for it...running and throwing accurately downfield. I can supply that as well but my assumption is that you wouldn't want to waste your time watching Niner vids (I'd be the same way...lol).

    This is college tape. I get that, but he has shown signs of the same stuff both in practice and in games. Some plays have been called back on holding and some have been drops by the TE/WR (Delanie Walker can be maddening at times).

    Alex Smith and Sam Bradford have NEVER shown signs of that on any level. Alex in particular...and I like Alex...lol. My assumption isnt "yeah, he'll get better because they all do". Its that I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT!!

    I do waste my time watching Niner games. I record most of their games on Direct TV, I like knowing the competition. I see that you don't, no biggie, but it explains your rose colored glasses. I was on point with Colin in college too, Seattle was in the QB market that year.


    Sigh...Rose Colored glasses.

    I have direcTV as well but not the Sunday Ticket. I have 2 kinds and don't have the time to watch all the games I would like on Sundays. That's why I am not saying anything to you guys about Wilson. I've seen most of the National games he's played, but thats not enough to form an opinion I'd argue for. I've watched football tho for almost 30 years so I know what I'm seeing when I watch football. That was the reason I DEPARATELY wanted the 49ers to draft Aaron Rodgers over Alex Smith. LOL. I kept hoping they would trade Alex and somehow trade back into round one to get Aaron (I was obviously deparate as that would clearly never happen). Aaron probably would never have become what he is now in that Nolan/Singletary disfunction, but I liked Aaron MUCH, MUCH more than Alex.

    Yeah...I really liked Colin in college, but I have to admit the delivery really threw me. They have done some work with him tho. Its MUCH faster now than it was in college. I'm also not wild about the way he sometimes holds the ball Walter Payton-style...and that's NOT a complimant. He holds it like a loaf of bread sometimes. He seems to be better at tucking it away (when he's not fumbling the snap) in recent weeks...but it had me nervous.

    My concerns about Kaep are more conjecture based on non mechanical things, and I won't share them here because they are about his personality, and they are my opinion only. I will say San Fran coaches have done tons with his footwork and release. The way he carries the ball probably won't change much, it has been a part of his game for a while now, and besides, the second a scrambling QB tucks the ball, the D knows he isn't throwing. Some of the issues that plagued Matt Hasselbeck never really went away either. Colin's hands are smallish, fumbles may always be an issue, especially in cold weather games. It always plagued one of our best quarterbacks of yester year, Dave Kreig.

    On topic, the reason Seattle should try to get him out of the pocket is that as of yet, he has not been effective there, and in pass situations, we will have Irvin chasing, and he is faster than Colin. We had two different players, Wagner and Irvin, chase Cam Newton down from behind, so we do have the speed.

    Will we? Probably not. Jason Jones is out for the year, and was ineffective for weeks now anyway, but we don't collapse the pocket all that well. I like Colin's ability to hit sideline throws over defenders, which is often what we try to make QBs do, so he will probably hit a few there.

    Mostly, I want to see what he does if he has to play from behind. that is one thing we have not seen from him, outside of the game where he was subbing against the rams.[/quote]








    Well, you got me curious about your personality concern. Seems like a model kid with confidense and doesn't get nervous.

    I respect it tho if you don't want to share them. No worries. I just hope its not about the tattoos. Sigh. That article was pretty sad.

    I remember Dave Kreig. Doesn't he still hold the fumble record for a career?

    I know you guys have ALOT of speed on D so I have no doubt that people can chase Colin down. This will be a tough game with 2 really good defenses.

    Its funny you mention those passes outside the numbers. That is PRECISELY what Alex has never been able to do on anything remotely considered a consistant basis. He simply couldn't do it. He's always over throw the pass by 5-10 yards. I can't tell you the look of frustration on Michael Crabtrees face after those throws. Crab is viewed aroudn the league as something of a disappointment, but he is really starting to play well now that Kaep is back there. He has all but replaced Vernon Davis as the "go-to" receiver.
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  • Marvin49 should listen to the Dilfer interview posted in this forum.
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  • pehawk wrote:Marvin49 should listen to the Dilfer interview posted in this forum.


    Which one. Link it and I will.
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  • Here ya go. Pretty fair assessment of this Sundays game. He breaks down Kap a bit, I cant recall if he spoke about him outside the pocket. Apologize if it doesn't.

    http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=99502 ... +Hour%3A+3
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  • pehawk wrote:Here ya go. Pretty fair assessment of this Sundays game. He breaks down Kap a bit, I cant recall if he spoke about him outside the pocket. Apologize if it doesn't.

    http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=99502 ... +Hour%3A+3


    Good interview, tho WAY too much Seahawks top for my taste (to be expected considering it's a Seattle station).

    He did mention that Kaep sometimes stays on one read to much, but as I said before that's most often because he's looking to go deep on just about every play...something else Dilfer mentioned. Pretty clear he really likes Wilson. :D I'm not comparing the two. Remember...Colin only has FIVE career starts to Wilsons 14.

    Wilson was a very different player after 5 weeks than he is now.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Here ya go. Pretty fair assessment of this Sundays game. He breaks down Kap a bit, I cant recall if he spoke about him outside the pocket. Apologize if it doesn't.

    http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=99502 ... +Hour%3A+3


    Good interview, tho WAY too much Seahawks top for my taste (to be expected considering it's a Seattle station).

    He did mention that Kaep sometimes stays on one read to much, but as I said before that's most often because he's looking to go deep on just about every play...something else Dilfer mentioned. Pretty clear he really likes Wilson. :D I'm not comparing the two. Remember...Colin only has FIVE career starts to Wilsons 14.

    Wilson was a very different player after 5 weeks than he is now.


    Based on my eye, and its a layman one, Kap is benefiting alot from max protection and having limited options/reads to make. To his credit, he's maximing those oppurtunities. But, this is the NFL, all QB's should be able to do that. ESPECIALLY behind max protect with loads of offensive line talent.

    Seems to me, the Rams posed an issue because their physical DB's and pass rush made his choices harder. Or, not perfect. Maybe he'll progress in that area?

    Please dont use the Patriots game as any barometer. That's an AFC team that was intimidated the first 30 minutes.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Here ya go. Pretty fair assessment of this Sundays game. He breaks down Kap a bit, I cant recall if he spoke about him outside the pocket. Apologize if it doesn't.

    http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=99502 ... +Hour%3A+3


    Good interview, tho WAY too much Seahawks top for my taste (to be expected considering it's a Seattle station).

    He did mention that Kaep sometimes stays on one read to much, but as I said before that's most often because he's looking to go deep on just about every play...something else Dilfer mentioned. Pretty clear he really likes Wilson. :D I'm not comparing the two. Remember...Colin only has FIVE career starts to Wilsons 14.

    Wilson was a very different player after 5 weeks than he is now.


    Based on my eye, and its a layman one, Kap is benefiting alot from max protection and having limited options/reads to make. To his credit, he's maximing those oppurtunities. But, this is the NFL, all QB's should be able to do that. ESPECIALLY behind max protect with loads of offensive line talent.

    Seems to me, the Rams posed an issue because their physical DB's and pass rush made his choices harder. Or, not perfect. Maybe he'll progress in that area?

    Please dont use the Patriots game as any barometer. That's an AFC team that was intimidated the first 30 minutes.



    I use the Pats game as a barometer for playing the Patriots again, but that's just about it. The Niners made the critical mistake of relaxing against the Patriots...and you can NEVER do that against Tom Brady. Once the Pats started that run the Niners just couldn't turn it back on and couldn't catch their breat. They ran over 90 freakin plays, eliminated the pass rush because the Niners were GASSED, and converted 5 of 6 FOURTH DOWNS after going 3 for 16 on 3rd.

    My point is that I've read in some places that the Pats "exposed" the Niners D. Um....no. Between the Niners, 'Hawks, and Cards, I think the Patriots are kinda tired of playing the NFC West. :D

    As for your Max Protect comment...uh....kinda?

    Hard to explain. The Niner O is based on going big ALOT. 2 TE and 1 WR is pretty normal. Six or Seven Offensive linemen is a regular occurance. Countless shifts and formations...all designed to confuse and creat matchups. The latest is a bit of an inverted Wishbone with the TEs lining up beside the QB (in a shallow Shotgun...the Pistol) like RBs. They do protect Colin by giving him lots of protection and simple reads (only 2 or 3 in the pattern) sometimes, but that's not done specifically for Colin. Thats the basis of the entire offense. They did the exact same thing at Stanford with Andrew Luck and in SF with Alex.

    Every week tho, they are giving him a little bit more. Remember, he's still pretty green and is learning as he goes. This time next year he'll be a very different player than the one he is now.
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  • amill87 wrote:
    kearly wrote:Something to remember is that a QB throwing outside the pocket is usually one that is facing or having just escaped imminent pressure. Kaepernick is a mechanical QB- meaning that if everything goes to plan he's effective, but when things go to hell he tends to shut down mentally. That probably explains the gap in his numbers. Kaepernick has padded his stats on a few big plays that went according to plan in every game.


    First, I find myself agreeing with you way too often nowadays, it must be the power of Wilson.

    Second, this is pretty much my observation as well. Kaep lives off the big play. I would be very curious to see if anyone can find a stat on drives of 80 or more yards that Kaep has completed without a big play.

    I already hear the argument that a big play counts for just as many points as a sustained time consuming drive but the flaw in big plays is they are harder to come by. 90% of the time when a big play happens it is because a player(s) made a mistake. While possible, it is more difficult to make another player make a mistake and create that opening.

    This is ultimately why I think Harbaugh made his first mistake. Alex Smith, while not flashy, should a consistent ability to sustain drives. Kaep has much more "wow" ability but I think he will struggle with consistency.


    Does the 9 minute drive against the Saints count? In a very noisy dome across the country in a primetime game??

    You guys are reaching and trying way to hard to make Kap look bad. Dude has game, is very intelligent, is very fast, is 6'4" and has one of if not the strongest arms in the game and all you want to do is try and nit pick. He is and will be a good QB, just like many other young QBs in the NFL right now!!!
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