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 Post subject: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:48 am 
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I'm getting annoyed by the lack of faith in the Seahawks chances to capture the NFC West.

With Kap under center the odds of Arizona pulling off an upset in week 17 have increased, IMO. Arizona has a good defensive line and talent in their secondary, just like everyone else in the NFC West. And, sans the game in Arizona, it’s not like the 49ers are blowing the doors off their opponents. Even Miami hung VERY tough with SF, in Candlestick, by simply being able to apply pressure. The West is not lost, yet. Arizona isn't going to be intimidated to play the 49ers like the Patriots were to start the game. That Arizona team has some pride, and will be playing their tail off, since literally nothing will be at stake.

In the beginning of the year, and as recent as the Miami game I've been VERY critical of Bevell. I posted after the Rams loss that I didn't understand the offensive struggles, the Seahawks can run at will with a dual-threat QB who can make every throw imaginable. Well, based on what Pete said yesterday, that was intentional to not overload Wilson too early. You cant argue with what's taking place now, but Im still of the opinion the offense could've been opened up earlier with the same results. Wilson's that special of a player. But, the point is, THIS IS THE SEAHAWKS OFFENSE.

Yes, the numbers the past two weeks are inflated by inferior play from opponents, but the Seahawks caused alot of that. Those plays where Sidney and Miller caught the ball, with no one around them has ALOT to do with how dangerous the Hawks offense is now. The X and O'd some amazing opportunities the past two weeks. And, they can do that because, they're just THAT GOOD. Trick plays, read-option, bootlegs, Wilson's scrambling ability, Marshaun up the gut, Turbin on the wheel route, there's so much that a defense has to be weary of.

This IS the Seahawks offense. It's not the competition - this is them!


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:00 pm 
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That would be priceless. We beat the 49ers and take care of the Rams only for the 49ers to choke against the Cards. Obviously it's not impossible, but probably improbable. In 2003 in week 17. The Cards were playing the Vikings and the cards completed a TD pass with no time on the clock to deny the Vikings a playoffs spot that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC5V_XIW1b4


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:07 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.


9ers are more likely to throw the ball with him, and Cards defense is ballhawks. Only team to get a pick on Wilson at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:17 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.


I wouldn't say Kaep put an ass whooping on the Pats. The Niners defense did for sure and Kaep capitalized on the right plays, but it's not like he took control of that game. Without the James long return, do you have faith in Kaep to drive down the field there when the defense had been completely stuffing him?

Back to the OP. The more I've been thinking about it, I think the Cards might actually pull it off. Division games are usually pretty tight and the Cards defense is still good. Teams that have nothing to play for but pride can be dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:18 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.


Because he's inexpeirenced, mainly. He's struggled against Rams and Dolphins, both of whom get good pressure and the Rams compliment that with solid secondary play. He's throwing, not quarterbacking, yet.

I'm not diminishing him at all - but Alex Smith has quarterbacked a few victories against Hawks. He's seen anything you can throw his way, he won't get confused. That's the difference.

AZ's ability to apply pressure may cause his lack of exp to show.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Actually, Kap did take control of that game in the first half. Like was mentioned, he threw 4 TD's and ran very well. It was about the Niners defense that the Pats came back, it wasn't like Kaepernick was out there letting Welker run wild on the 9ers.

The 9ers offense is scoring more points with Kap than Smith; they're throwing the ball downfield more, and rushing more.

I don't know why you're annoyed Pe, about folks "giving up" on the division. I haven't given up, but I'm not optimistic. We don't control our own destiny anymore. Nothing the Seahawks can do will win the division; we're going to need help. If we win out, we still don't win unless SF loses out, and Harbaugh hasn't lost back to back games in the NFL yet, so it's not likely.

Now, in playing the Niners.....they are a different team, but so are we. It's going to be a very interesting game. I have every confidence we can beat them. But it still might not matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:36 pm 
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As someone that really liked Kaepernick in 2011 and actually predicted he'd be Seattle's pick at #25, I thought Harbaugh made a mistake switching to Kaepernick earlier this season. He was just a 1 read QB that ended up running the ball under the slightest sign of duress.

That's changed. When given time he's now progressing through reads and he probably scrambles less than Wilson does at this point. Most importantly, Kaepernick is finally starting to take shots downfield and that's bad news for us, because that element hasn't been a part of SF's gameplan before and Kaepernick is an outstanding deep thrower. He's still growing as a QB and I could see him taking 5 sacks this weekend if Seattle can bring it, but if we let him throw on us it's going to be a long night. I'd say he's probably a better QB right now than Ryan Tannehill, and Tannehill scorched us pretty good. He's still got a ton of room for improvement too- his ceiling is basically as high as Josh Freeman's.

Currently I see a big gap between him and Wilson, I think Wilson is an elite QB. Even still, SF is a better team than when we played them last. So is Seattle. But I'm definitely concerned about Kaepernick. He could be a thorn in our side for years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:38 pm 
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I get annoyed because I'm an over reactionary, douchey, Seahawks junkie. That explain it?

I agree, Kap did take control last night. I'm not taking a thing from him. But, I have my doubts a Kap lead 49er offense can throw on physical and talented secondary’s. Add some HFA passrush...and I REALLY like the Hawks chances.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:49 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
That Arizona team has some pride, and will be playing their tail off, since literally nothing will be at stake


Kinda like they did against the Hawks?

Sorry dude, I have zero faith that the Cardinals can beat the niners in SF with a 4th string QB that has no business even playing in this league.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:54 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.

did you see his like nine fumbled snaps last night he just got lucky the pats were not able to get a hold of them


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Kaep took control of that game last night

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I do not even want to think about it. I just want the Hawks to play lights out this week to keep the pressure on.

I do not care what happens to the Niners at this point, I just want the Hawks to keep winning. If they do that, none of this other stuff matters. Nothing is set in stone until it is over.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
pehawk wrote:
That Arizona team has some pride, and will be playing their tail off, since literally nothing will be at stake


Kinda like they did against the Hawks?

Sorry dude, I have zero faith that the Cardinals can beat the niners in SF with a 4th string QB that has no business even playing in this league.


I'm sure Detroit said the same thing. We'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:02 pm 
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loafoftatupu wrote:
I do not even want to think about it. I just want the Hawks to play lights out this week to keep the pressure on.

I do not care what happens to the Niners at this point, I just want the Hawks to keep winning. If they do that, none of this other stuff matters. Nothing is set in stone until it is over.


Word. That was the point of my statements of the offense. I think it'll prove "Elite".


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Kap is a future great qb but he is going through his first few games as starting qb. Mistakes will happen. Also shots downfield have a higher chance of getting picked off than shorter passes. Alex Smith is very good at playing mistake free football but slower to get to the goalline. With Kap the 49ers can win games they are leading but also make up points quickly when they are down. With Alex Smith they had more of an issue when they would be down 1-2 touchdowns and I think that is why the switch happened.

So with that said - if they are going to loose against AZ I think it is becuase of a few untimely picks that turns into Cardinal points. I don't think those points would happen with Alex Smith. Kapernick is playing to win games like last night - if every game was like teams like AZ then Alex Smith would still be the starting qb.....


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:18 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Why do people still think Kap is a liability? I would think the 4 td ass whoopin he put on the sleep walking Pats would give him at least a little props.


What about the 4 fumbles he had, and by virtue of luck all 4 were recovered by SF? Statistically speaking, it's very rare to see 4 fumbles and not 1 turnover from them. He won't get that lucky against us if he keeps mishandling snaps and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Kap is an average QB at best.

His 4th TD pass was a terribly thrown ball to a wide open man. He overthrows constantly, he's inaccurate and he makes a few poor decisions. He has a gun for an arm and obviously very mobile, but if he wasn't playing on a great team he would look like Brandon Weeden more than Tom Brady.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:22 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Kap is a future great qb but he is going through his first few games as starting qb. Mistakes will happen. Also shots downfield have a higher chance of getting picked off than shorter passes. Alex Smith is very good at playing mistake free football but slower to get to the goalline. With Kap the 49ers can win games they are leading but also make up points quickly when they are down. With Alex Smith they had more of an issue when they would be down 1-2 touchdowns and I think that is why the switch happened.

So with that said - if they are going to loose against AZ I think it is becuase of a few untimely picks that turns into Cardinal points. I don't think those points would happen with Alex Smith. Kapernick is playing to win games like last night - if every game was like teams like AZ then Alex Smith would still be the starting qb.....


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:42 pm 
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I think Kap is good and a whole lot of fun to watch (if you're not preoccupied with hating him because he's a damn dirty 49'er) but I think he's probably prone to wild swings of inconsistency that Alex Smith is not. Smith would never be the sole reason they won, but he'd never poop the bed and give one away either. Dictionary definition of a Steady Eddie. Kap looks like he could go all "gunslinger" at a moments notice and throw half a dozen picks (or half a dozen TD's). Assuming we beat SF at home (because this whole discussion is moot if we don't) our chances at the division depend entirely on which Kap shows up to play Arizona.

I too am holding out hope at this point, but it's more of a Lloyd Christmas "so you're saying there's a chance" type of hope as opposed to anything I'd put money on.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:56 pm 
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SonicHawk wrote:
Kap is an average QB at best.

His 4th TD pass was a terribly thrown ball to a wide open man. He overthrows constantly, he's inaccurate and he makes a few poor decisions. He has a gun for an arm and obviously very mobile, but if he wasn't playing on a great team he would look like Brandon Weeden more than Tom Brady.


This is patently false. He is accurate and rarely makes poor decisions. He takes care of the ball. Sounds like your bias is blinding you on Kap. Even the analysts who watch tape on him say he makes his progressions and is accurate. And, he is staying in the pocket more and more with his eyes downfield.

But don't take my word for it. See for yourself on Sunday


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:58 pm 
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NorCal wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
Kap is an average QB at best.

His 4th TD pass was a terribly thrown ball to a wide open man. He overthrows constantly, he's inaccurate and he makes a few poor decisions. He has a gun for an arm and obviously very mobile, but if he wasn't playing on a great team he would look like Brandon Weeden more than Tom Brady.


This is patently false. He is accurate and rarely makes poor decisions. He takes care of the ball. Sounds like your bias is blinding you on Kap. Even the analysts who watch tape on him say he makes his progressions and is accurate. And, he is staying in the pocket more and more with his eyes downfield.

But don't take my word for it. See for yourself on Sunday


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:04 pm 
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This link shows the 49ers holding the #2 playoff spot and lists the reason as "NFC West Champ".

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type ... rder/false

Did I miss something?


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Dreo wrote:
This link shows the 49ers holding the #2 playoff spot and lists the reason as "NFC West Champ".

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type ... rder/false

Did I miss something?


Yes the X over on the left side stating clinched playoff unlike a Z which says clinched division. They hold the 2 ranking as currently West Champs / leaders - once a team locks that spot they get the Z


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:39 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Dreo wrote:
This link shows the 49ers holding the #2 playoff spot and lists the reason as "NFC West Champ".

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type ... rder/false

Did I miss something?


Yes the X over on the left side stating clinched playoff unlike a Z which says clinched division. They hold the 2 ranking as currently West Champs / leaders - once a team locks that spot they get the Z


Ah gotcha, right. Though I would prefer if they listed the reason as "NFC West Leader". :x


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 Post subject: Re: Dont give up on division and Hawks offense
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:48 pm 
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NorCal wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
Kap is an average QB at best.

His 4th TD pass was a terribly thrown ball to a wide open man. He overthrows constantly, he's inaccurate and he makes a few poor decisions. He has a gun for an arm and obviously very mobile, but if he wasn't playing on a great team he would look like Brandon Weeden more than Tom Brady.


This is patently false. He is accurate and rarely makes poor decisions. He takes care of the ball. Sounds like your bias is blinding you on Kap. Even the analysts who watch tape on him say he makes his progressions and is accurate. And, he is staying in the pocket more and more with his eyes downfield.

But don't take my word for it. See for yourself on Sunday


some of the same analysts have detracted from seattles accomplishments as well. I liked kap coming out for the draft and never thought we could get Wilson. kap scares me a little, but I believe in dangeruss.

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