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Better Running Back
Shaun Alexnader 24%  24%  [ 49 ]
Marsahwn Lynch 76%  76%  [ 153 ]
Total votes : 202
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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:15 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.


I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:23 pm 
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The more I think about it, as good as ML has been, I would likely rate him just a tad higher than Chris Warren. Though ML should distance himself from CW by this time next year. Warren had some off field trouble that may have diminished his legacy, but being a 3 time pro-bowler (with a 1600 yd season) who also excelled returning kicks, should be worthy of mention. IMO, they rank like this:

John L.
Warner
SA
Lynch
Warren
* even as a FB, no "top Hawk" RB list is complete without mention of Mack Strong.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:38 pm 
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morgulon1 wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.


I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.


I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha! ;)

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:47 pm 
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I dont even understand how ANY could even say Shaun Alexander. I mean yeah the guy was good, but EVERYONE and their grand mother knows that he had one of the most dominant offense lines TO EVER PLAY THE GAME that year and along with other years. He wasn't a work horse, he barely buised you, he wasn't a speed demon. Some even consider him to be soft. Listen, im not saying he is all these things, the dude broke records and brought us to the Superbowl. But you know what? He wasn't the other one. Matt Hasselbeck was in the prime of his career and was lights out. Marshawn is a bruiser who runs hard and wears down defenses. Time and time again this guy just moves the pill. Where Shaun Alexanders offensive line made Shaun Alexander play better, Marshawn Lynch is making our mediocre offense line play better. Russell Okung is no Walter Jones, James Carpenter is no Chad Futch, Unger is really good but its no Tobek and of course Robinson is no Mack Strong. NUFF SAID!! there really is no more room for argument now so we can lock this topic lol j/k

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:56 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
morgulon1 wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.


I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.


I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha! ;)

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.



Hahahahaha . I agree, the only thing that SA has over Lynch at this point is longevity. For a pure running back, and this is my personal opinion... I think Curt Warner is the best to put on a Hawk uniform. He had it all and had it not for the shit-turf NFL stadiums used back then, there wouldn't of been any question.
Warren, nice back with a lot of talent (and problems) which I think unfairly knocks him down a notch.

John L Williams...enough said
Mack Strong...one of the best FB of all time, not just Seattle

Glad you didnt take your life.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:53 pm 
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I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.[/quote]

I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha! ;)

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.[/quote]


Hahahahaha . I agree, the only thing that SA has over Lynch at this point is longevity. For a pure running back, and this is my personal opinion... I think Curt Warner is the best to put on a Hawk uniform. He had it all and had it not for the shit-turf NFL stadiums used back then, there wouldn't of been any question.
Warren, nice back with a lot of talent (and problems) which I think unfairly knocks him down a notch.

John L Williams...enough said
Mack Strong...one of the best FB of all time, not just Seattle

Glad you didnt take your life.[/quote]
=====================================================

Thanks. ;) His followers refused to believe someone, in this case Hutch, just might not like their hero. It all got rather creepy and I now log out at nite for fear of being cyber-murdered in my sleep. LOL.

I agree with your sentiment about Curt. I close my eyes and can still see that gawd-awful play. Tragic. When an outsider brings his name up in RB conversations, you know you're talking to someone that knows football. Buy that man a beer.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:02 pm 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

DAT SPEED


VERY gifted athlete. Thanks for that. But it really just proved a point. When he had an opening, he was money. When he didn't, he wasn't. I saw like one broken tackle (against Florida) on the entire highlight reel. BUT...to his defense. SA never pretended to be a bruisng back. He never apologized for his style and always made it clear "this is who I am, this is how I run, take it or leave it". It's hard to condemn him (too much) based on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Great Thread !!

Stats are great to compare and speculations are a wonderful thing.
* * My choice is based on the Man alone, and all he stands for.
Comments can be made that this quality would not bring us a Championship itself,
....and no disrespect to the Beast and his personal qualities

Shaun Alexander was and is a true class individual. (on or off a football field)
THIS is my basis for favorites among the two.

#37 still represents the Seahawks and the 12th man with pride. :th2thumbs:
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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:14 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
We know exactly what another RB could do. Mo Morris had 71 carries for 288 yards (4.1 ave) and 1TD behind that 2005 line. He was about as average as average gets.


i dont know if you're arguing for or against SA being all line. mo morris has a 4.2 ypc career avg over a 10 year career and had about a 4.0 ypc avg with 8 tds in his 3 years with detroit had about 20 more carries a season.. most backups usually have higher ypc avgs simply due to the fact they get a lot of draw plays in 3rd and long situations which spikes their ypc numbers a lot considering the low amount of carries they get in a season and they generally get 5-10 garbage yards on a draw.

basically comparing a backup running back/ 3rd down backs stats to a starting rb doesnt work because its situational. this was the same thing that caused a lot of arguments on here when people were begging for forsett to start because of his high ypc avg.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Lynch has about 1/10th of the line Alexander had, and alexander was a joke right after the sb season. Lynch with the 05 line would be just unfair


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:45 pm 
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This is actually pretty easy for me

I'm taking a young, healthy Alexander. I think too many people remember the 2006/2007 Alexander and are holding it against him.

Alexander's vision is what made him great and one of the most productive RB in NFL history over a 5-6 year span. He was a TD machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:00 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
TheRealDTM wrote:
Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

DAT SPEED


VERY gifted athlete. Thanks for that. But it really just proved a point. When he had an opening, he was money. When he didn't, he wasn't. I saw like one broken tackle (against Florida) on the entire highlight reel. BUT...to his defense. SA never pretended to be a bruisng back. He never apologized for his style and always made it clear "this is who I am, this is how I run, take it or leave it". It's hard to condemn him (too much) based on that.


The thing is, Lynch takes on tacklers head on, that was never Alexander's style, he'd try to run around them and most of the time it was successful. It's not as if he was running into crowds and sliding, he simply found space to avoid having to do what Lynch did.
ALexander was faster at getting to the second level, hence when Lynch gets past the LoS he has less space to work with. If you gave Lynch and Alexander the same running lane, Lynch would probably fight through two or three defenders to make the yardage, but when Alexander got past the LoS there was only one LB close enough to make the tackle and he'd fly past them more often than not.

Look at this video of Jones greatest ever block again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-BSrVsRDs
As great as the block was, Lynch probably wouldn't get the 1st down there - he'd have been touched at the 16 yard line - slowed enough that the next guy coming in could also get his hands on them - Lynch would probably fight for another 2-3 yards and make it to the 10. Alexander didn't have to break tackles because nobody got close enough to him to make them. Even when he reached the 10 yard line he squeezes through what is a tight gap but makes it look easy before diving forward with the ball when he knows he can't make the TD because if he stays upright, he's probably stopped at the 5 yard line as he wasn't the type to drag players along with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Shaun could not take the job away from Watters at first because of his soft style and lack of blocking and pass catching. Why we had to get more backs to platoon with Shaun because he refused to learn how, you have a back with size and the ability but lack of effort to do any of the little things to complete his game.

One of my big complaints about him, we basically telegraphed that we were passing or doing the draw play on third down becasue of Alexander.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am very curious to know if this ranking accounts for all the yards Lynch gets after contact. If it doesn't, then it really doesn't make a statement about the line.


You say yards after contact, I say vision. That said, I do think two things on this topic:

#1: Lynch probably helps his FO line stats more than Alexander did because of his superior consistency.

#2: The difference between the 2012 and 2005 lines is FAR smaller than the perception gap makes it out to be.


Last edited by kearly on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:55 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).



I concur, two different backs.Except I voted for Beef Moe. Hahahaha


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:00 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Shaun could not take the job away from Watters at first because of his soft style and lack of blocking and pass catching. Why we had to get more backs to platoon with Shaun because he refused to learn how, you have a back with size and the ability but lack of effort to do any of the little things to complete his game.

One of my big complaints about him, we basically telegraphed that we were passing or doing the draw play on third down becasue of Alexander.


You'll hear no argument from me on this. But I sure liked the fire his drafting lit under the ass of Watters, lol. Watters was a bit of a primadonna himself at times. When SA came along, Watters again ran like a man possessed. I want to see this between Lynch and Turbin as well. I think Turbin is a bit intiminated by the greatness of Lynch. As soon as he gets over this, we should see some fireworks and our running game should benefit immensely.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:07 pm 
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morgulon1 wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).



I concur, two different backs.Except I voted for Beef Moe. Hahahaha


I just hope our boy can stay healthy. Nothing suggests he spends much time worrying about it, lol. Lynch AND Alexander in the same backfield would have been amazing. Those two behind that 05 line would have taken the refs right the **** out of the game! In fact, they would have taken Hass right the **** out of the game, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:07 pm 
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No disrespect intended to anyone, but I have to disagree with the growing myth that Chris Gray was some great lineman. He was pretty much the definition of average for ages, until he became a massive liability late in his career (2006 and on) when Tim Ruskell was too incompetent to acquire a guard that could beat out a mid 30s guy who was average in his prime. I don't blame Gray for those late years, he actually started off some of those seasons as a backup and would up starting after injuries. But I also remember very well how much Seahawks fans bitched about his performances week in and week out, and that was when things were going well during their peak run.

He was better back then than his negative reputation just like he's not as good in retrospect as his sudden post-career sainthood. He was basically the Paul McQuistan of his time (although McQuistan is much stronger and much better as a run blocker, IMO). They are similar in that they were two guys that the FO constantly had targeted for replacement, but he kept playing just barely good enough to keep his job for a surprisingly long time. That's no bash on Gray, playing in the NFL for a decade plus is impressive. But that doesn't mean that he was secretly terrific. He was the definition of average, and at times less than average.

Actually, I think John Moffitt might be a better comparison in terms of style. Both were technician types who contributed with skillful blocking but could at times be manhandled.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:06 pm 
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In their prime - Shaun
perfectly healthy - 'Shawn

Lynch plays with back issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:12 am 
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Rocket wrote:
In their prime - Shaun
perfectly healthy - 'Shawn

Lynch plays with back issues.

Lynch plays old school smash-ur-ass Football, hard for me not to love them both for totally different styles, as both have served this team with real distinction. :th2thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:29 am 
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I am not voting on this, SA was a beast in his prime Lynch is a beast now. Too tough a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:05 am 
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I really appreciate both of them,but for the life of me I don't understand how most people here are taking Lynch EASILY??I guess fans typically go with he current guy,but I have not forgot a former MVP that ran for over 1800 yards and 27 TD's in a single season,most likely the greatest season a Hawk has ever had and he was far from a one hit wonder.We are fortunate to have had both of em!!


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:20 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 am 
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I can't believe this is even a conversation... Lynch is the best RB in Seahawks history, unfortunatly he plays behind a suspect line. The man doesn't quit and he doesn't shy away from contact. Lets be honest... SA did a lot of that unless he was near the goal line. SA was a product of the O Line, The Beastmode is productive despite his line. If anyone thinks that Lynch wouldn't have got more yards than SA with that rediculous line, they you really do need to put down the reefer... When Lynch goes untouched, yes he can be caught, but he is fast enough and tuff enough to have challenged or beat the all-time reg season rushing record behind the 05 Hawks line. One thing I am sure of: he would have had more class than SA had in 04... pouting on the sidelines...

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:59 am 
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Exhibit A:
SA, 2005 reg season: 370 carries, 1880 yds, 5.1 ypa
ML, 2012 reg season: 261 carries, 1266 yds, 4.9 ypa

If Lynch gets 109 carries and holds anything close to his 4.9 ypa over the last three games he will be at or beyond 1700 yds on the season. This is less than SA's 1880 on the same number of carries, but with a significant downgrade in the OL department. Lynch IS the Seahawks running game. He gets his yards despite a suspect line. SA got his yards because of his line.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:28 am 
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kearly wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I am very curious to know if this ranking accounts for all the yards Lynch gets after contact. If it doesn't, then it really doesn't make a statement about the line.


You say yards after contact, I say vision. That said, I do think two things on this topic:

#1: Lynch probably helps his FO line stats more than Alexander did because of his superior consistency.

#2: The difference between the 2012 and 2005 lines is FAR smaller than the perception gap makes it out to be.

I SO disagree. Beyond the obvious differences, like the use of zone blocking concepts, the answer to this comparison is simply 2 hall of famers.

Last year, Lynch grew into a ZBS runner and then excelled while this line truly sucked and was chronically injured. What do you think Alexander would have done, even at his best, behind that line?
Flip that. Put last year's Lynch behind the 05 line. Would he have been off of Alexander's pace? Those two scenarios say as much about the lines as the runners.

I don't know the recent numbers, but as of the Vikings game, 40 percent of Lynch's yards were after contact. I doubt strongly that even in Alexander's MVP year he had 15 percent of his yards after contact.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:24 am 
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This is a classic example of trying to compare "then & now". Its really not possible.

If I could pick one back to have for the Seahawks in his prime it would be OJ. Wouldn't most of us? OJ was the hard running type like Lynch who hit the pile, hit the pile, hit the pile, and one time came out on the other side of the pile and ran away from everyone for 40-50 yards. And remember he broke Jim Brown's single season record in the same number of games per year 14, not the 16 Dickerson had to barely edge that record. And he is the only one to break Brown's record of 7 consecutive games of over 100 yards rushing.

And there are others. If this O line could run decent sweeps I'd want Paul Hornung the best sweep runner ever, followed closely by Gayle Sayers. For straight speed runners no one compares to Sayers.

But we can't have those people. As has been said, Alexander was the league MVP that year so for that year at least you nay sayers have to admit to his value. (but probably won't)

Lynch is great for us now. His running style worrys me greatly as I go back to the 60s and can tell you that most backs that love contact like him have pretty short careers. I would love to have a really good O line for him to run behind so he won't have to take so much contact.

So why do we have to like either one "best". I loved Shaun when he was in his prime, I love Lynch now. Why isn't that enough?

:141847_bnono:

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:03 am 
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hawks4thewin wrote:
I would take LEON over SHAUN i think in 2005 becuase he is faster than shuan and goes down just as easy.


I think people toss this kind of thing out there way too willy nilly most of the time, but in this instance I really, really mean it.
This is the most unbelievably moronic post I have ever read on this site. Ever, and it's not even close.

hawks4thewin wrote:
... someone more intelegent should comment


Clearly...

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:36 am 
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I don't know if anyone's posted this already or not (if so, I apologize). This week on 710 ESPN Brock Huard had Robbie Tobeck and Craig Terrell in for a mini-roundtable on the 2005 vs. the 2012 Hawks. It was awesome to get an all ex-Seahawks perspective. At one point, Brock threw out the whole Alexander vs. Lynch question as well. I'm not sure if it was Terrell or Tobeck, but the response was (basically), "Could you imagine the kind of numbers Lynch would have put up behind that Offensive Line?" Though they gave a real PC answer, there was a whole lot of Lynch love from those guys. Here is the link to the interview. Great stuff ...

2005 vs. the 2012 Hawks Roundtable


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Not sure if this has been posted yet, if so I apologize. Although both are great runners in their own right, I feel Shaun fed the "soft" tag this team had for so long. Let's just say I am no longer worried about being embarrassed by my team's running back curling up into the fetal position.

Yards are ultimately the highest measure, but to have your running back run about as mean as anyone ever has feels better to me. I just prefer the beatdown mentality over finesse.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:27 pm 
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WolfGrey wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted yet, if so I apologize. Although both are great runners in their own right, I feel Shaun fed the "soft" tag this team had for so long. Let's just say I am no longer worried about being embarrassed by my team's running back curling up into the fetal position.

Yards are ultimately the highest measure, but to have your running back run about as mean as anyone ever has feels better to me. I just prefer the beatdown mentality over finesse.

Great first post, and I agree with it. The soft label in 2005 used to piss me off, but it was true.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Match the Running Back to the Picture :)

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Lynch has been consistent the last few years REGARDLESS of a passing game. Lynch> SA and it's not even close.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:01 pm 
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I'm a huge Alexander fan still and love the guy for what he did for us those several great years, but c'mon people. BeastMode FTW!! He's a stud, best we've ever had. And he plays hurt all the time behind a makeshift OL, never complains, and the players love him. We've had 2 of the Top 10 RBs of the last decade, I'd argue...


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Just watched video of every TD in Alexander's 28 TD season. I counted 8 of those that I don't think Marshawn would have scored on. Watching the video, or any SA videos, really highlight the incredible 5-10 yard burst that he had, and then the long speed. I love to watch Marshawn play, but that burst that Shaun had is up there with the best to have every played the game.

Lynch has enough years left where he could pass SA in time, but for me, he's not there yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Jville wrote:
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That's my man.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:22 pm 
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THIS :th2thumbs:

Still my all-time greatest RB in Seattle !!

...WE ARE...

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:52 pm 
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I was looking for some vids of Curt, found one for his second season back from injury but hard to dig them up, was looking for his rookie year which if you seen the KC game was jaw dropping.

Trouble I had was Kurt Warner dominated the search.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Depends on the line.

With a great oline I take Alexander - he had such great vision,instincts and moves and significantly better top end speed than Marshawn.

With a great oline, obviously Lynch would be great but not-Alexander great.

Where Lynch gets the adavantage is if the the oline isn't special. Marshawn can run the ball not matter what the blocking is like becasue he is so hard to tackle and plays with so much passion.

If I have to draft one not knowing what my line is like I am taking Lynch because he is instant running game and brings a toughness that SA never did. I think both guys are ideally suited to the versions of the Seahawks teams they play on. Marshawn would never look as bas as SA did when the line collapsed though.

Give me Marshawn, I much prefer the identity that his style provides of Alexander's - and I am big fan of SA but his running was condusive to looking great behind a great oline.

Lynch is all heart, SA was the natural.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:20 pm 
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No one can ever downplay Alexander's accomplishments and he was absolutely great for us, but go to YouTube and watch a video of all 28 of his TDs in 05. Soooo many from about 3 yards out and even his longer ones were pretty much untouched.


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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:11 pm 
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It's my understanding that Lynch has never been behind an offensive line like our 2005 line, so to say he wouldn't do as well is not accurate IMO. And Lynch is just now getting a passing game to supplement the run which SA had the majority of his career.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Did Alexander have the 2005 Offensive Line in 2002-2004...

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Did Alexander have the 2005 Offensive Line in 2002-2004...


Actually...yes he did.

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 Post subject: Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Is there now an option for Wilson? This dude's got a NOSE for the ENDZONE!

Hustle Wilson!

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