Lynch vs. Alexander

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Better Running Back

Shaun Alexnader
49
24%
Marsahwn Lynch
153
76%
 
Total votes : 202

Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:05 am
  • A fun fact for everyone who thinks Shaun's line was way better than Lynch's current one:

    Football Outsiders rankings:

    Seahawks 2012 run blocking: 3rd... (4.50 adjusted line yards)
    Seahawks 2005 run blocking: 6th... (4.42 adjusted line yards)

    Seahawks 2012 pass blocking: 16th... (6.2% adjusted sack rate)
    Seahawks 2005 pass blocking: 13th... (5.9% adjusted line yards)

    That's surprisingly close, and Lynch has actually had better push up front so far than even Shaun did in 2005. It's worth noting that our current line is penalized waaaaaay more and that doesn't factor into these metrics. Additionally, Wilson is harder to sack than Hasselbeck is. But still, our current line is pretty damn under-rated.

    As said before, both Lynch and Shaun were very different backs when Seattle's line sucked from 2006-2010. Both have needed good blocking to produce.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:13 am
  • i appreciate both.. love what beast mode is doing, loved alexander until his last year.... if i had to choose either ( in their prime ) i would have to say alexander, better runner, had a nose for the endzone, and his running style was a thing of beauty. to be honest i can't believe curt warner is not in this discussion.. i think he was better than both..
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:18 am
  • This is like asking me to pick between my mom and my dad.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:19 am
  • Lynch 100%

    The guy fights for EVERY yard! The fact that Tobeck said he would rather see Lynch in the backfield should say something.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:20 am
  • I would have to say Lynch. Lynch hasn't even hit his prime and we are having this conversation. 2-3 more good years and he will will basically reach all of SA's career marks. For comparison - Shaun's best seasons were at age 27 and 28 and Lynch is still only 26 with a better resume to that point.

    SA had such a ridiculous peak that it is hard to remember his play clearly. But from my eyes and memory - down to down - it is Lynch without a doubt. I don't think he has taken a carry off since becoming a Seahawk.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:28 am
  • Lynch all day. Alexander did what he did because of the offensive line, Lynch does what he does on effort.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:31 am
  • I loved Shauns elusiveness but I love Lynchs toughness a LOT more.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:37 am
  • kearly wrote:A fun fact for everyone who thinks Shaun's line was way better than Lynch's current one:

    Football Outsiders rankings:

    Seahawks 2012 run blocking: 3rd... (4.50 adjusted line yards)
    Seahawks 2005 run blocking: 6th... (4.42 adjusted line yards)

    Seahawks 2012 pass blocking: 16th... (6.2% adjusted sack rate)
    Seahawks 2005 pass blocking: 13th... (5.9% adjusted line yards)

    That's surprisingly close, and Lynch has actually had better push up front so far than even Shaun did in 2005. It's worth noting that our current line is penalized waaaaaay more and that doesn't factor into these metrics. Additionally, Wilson is harder to sack than Hasselbeck is. But still, our current line is pretty damn under-rated.

    As said before, both Lynch and Shaun were very different backs when Seattle's line sucked from 2006-2010. Both have needed good blocking to produce.


    I went and looked at the ratings to figure out what they mean. The reason the 2005 line isn't ranked higher than 6th is because they had relatively high stuff percentage.

    The run blocking difference between now and seven years ago has some qualifiers. Power running (and a decent run game in general) still existed for quite a few teams then; fewer teams do it now. This team has an emphasis on running the ball which is unusual in the league right now.

    This is also one of those "see it with my eyes" instead of looking at numbers deals. The numbers don't account for the absolute destruction I witnessed Jones and Hutchinson consistently lay down (those other three guys did a pretty good job too). I don't think this is a bad line now, but Lynch and Wilson seemingly bail them out when they get into trouble. They definitely seem to be getting better over time as a group, and are certainly getting good mileage out of the available talent.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:38 am
  • Yep, tough call. Very tough, not only because they are two completely differently styled runners, but because they're both very good.

    Have to give the edge to 2005 Alexander. His fluidity and speed got him a lot of yards and touchdowns. He had that little extra burst where he didn't have to bull rush through eleven other guys to get the yardage. Lynch hesitates sometimes too much, which irks me a little during games. It's not bad, but just enough sometimes to make me feel he could get a lot more yardage without the little shimmy step before plowing into a hole. Dunno, maybe I'm seeing things, and Alexander did the same thing, but I feel it's a slight weakness.

    And remember when Alexander had that streak of games with at least one 10+ yardage play? That's an NFL record still, if I remember correctly, and stands at what, 70, maybe 80 games? Something tells me 2005 Shaun Alexander would be leading the league in rushing, even with this offensive line. There are holes and openings being made, and he'd find them.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:00 am
  • There are so many people with selective memory here... I hate with Alexander is brought up, because people keep revising history to make their argument correct..

    Fact is, Shaun WAS the team. He was the best back in football at the time, and we ran at will on ANYONE, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. He could brush off tackles as good as anyone, and had an amazing 5th gear. If it weren't for injuries after 05, he would be sniffing Canton.

    Don't get me wrong... I love lynch, but SA was beast and did some amazing things to get to the endzone.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:10 am
  • Let's see, league MVP with the (then) record of 28 TDs or a bullrusher Beastmode. I love Lynch, I love his style of play, but I'm going with the speed and the numbers. Alexander had better vision, and I think people forget that inside the 20s, Alexander had an extra physicality (which we all wish we would have seen outside the 20s, but I digress).

    That said, I don't think there's a wrong answer to the question.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:15 am
  • kearly wrote:A fun fact for everyone who thinks Shaun's line was way better than Lynch's current one:

    Football Outsiders rankings:

    Seahawks 2012 run blocking: 3rd... (4.50 adjusted line yards)
    Seahawks 2005 run blocking: 6th... (4.42 adjusted line yards)

    Seahawks 2012 pass blocking: 16th... (6.2% adjusted sack rate)
    Seahawks 2005 pass blocking: 13th... (5.9% adjusted line yards)

    That's surprisingly close, and Lynch has actually had better push up front so far than even Shaun did in 2005. It's worth noting that our current line is penalized waaaaaay more and that doesn't factor into these metrics. Additionally, Wilson is harder to sack than Hasselbeck is. But still, our current line is pretty damn under-rated.

    As said before, both Lynch and Shaun were very different backs when Seattle's line sucked from 2006-2010. Both have needed good blocking to produce.

    I am very curious to know if this ranking accounts for all the yards Lynch gets after contact. If it doesn't, then it really doesn't make a statement about the line.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:18 am
  • Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
    Losses: 120% value
    0-4 Yards: 100% value
    5-10 Yards: 50% value
    11+ Yards: 0% value
    These numbers are then adjusted based on down, distance, situation, opponent, and the difference in rushing average between shotgun compared to standard formations. Finally, we normalize the numbers so that the league average for Adjusted Line Yards per carry is the same as the league average for RB yards per carry. These stats are explained further here.
    The following stats are not adjusted for opponent:
    RB Yards: Yards per carry by that team's running backs, according to standard NFL numbers.
    Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.
    Stuffed: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).
    Second Level Yards: Yards which this team's running backs earn between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
    Open Field Yards: Yards which this team's running backs earn more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:21 am
  • kearly wrote:I think Shaun is the better RB, but it depends on what you want. If you want production, it's a young Shaun hands down. If you want consistency run for run, it's Lynch. A typical game for Shaun would be a lot of 2 yard gains with a few huge runs to raise his average. That said, yards are yards, and in-his-prime Shaun was great in short yardage situations. He was killer on screens too. When was the last time Lynch took a screen 80 yards to the house like Shaun used to?

    For this offense though, it's hard to argue against Lynch. He brings consistency on every run which really helps Seattle's station to station ball control styled offense. That said, there are plays in every game where I see Lynch get 15 yards and think a young Alexander would have busted a long one for a score in the same situation, but on the other hand we'd have a lot more 3 and outs with Alexander. I think both RBs were well suited for the Seahawks eras that they played in.


    Nice post. It really is hard to choose. I voted SA on the basis of his overall production, his ability to find the end zone anywhere within the 20 yard line, etc. People only remember the last couple inglorious years of Shaun's career, but he really wasn't that easy to tackle when he was young. He was never a monster up the middle in the same way that Lynch is, but he also didn't forget how to break tackles until late in his career.

    I also think we use play-action more effectively in this offense than we ever did with Holmgren. Holmgren's WCO was effective, especially in a couple of magical years, but I get the impression defenses are left guessing more these days, which makes both aspects of the offense more effective.

    Anyhow, I think SA in his prime was a better runner than Lynch is right now. But it's not really an easy choice, and if Lynch keeps this up it could change my mind.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:22 am
  • Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

    I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

    I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

    Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:27 am
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

    I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

    I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

    Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM


    Great post. SA's memory has been tainted by frustration after a lost super bowl, hutchinson leaving, the team hitting its decline, and multiple injuries. That opened the door for a small cadre of people who NEVER liked his style to dominate the conversation.

    But that dude was a special runner from 2001-2006, and unlike 2004-2005, the Oline in 2001-2004 SUCKED.

    It's also hard to ask these questions about Seahawks legends - imagine if we had a stud wideout and people were asking if he was better than Largent? Not saying it can't be a legitimate question, but for me it's always too tainted with emotion to answer objectively.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:47 am
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

    I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.


    For the record, not all of us are newer fans. We just happen to disagree with you.

    Our O-line didn't just materialize out of nowhere in 2005. The Jones-Hutch-Tobeck-Gray combo had been together since 2001, which was Alexander's sophomore season. Hutch was injured in 2002 for 12 games, but by 2003, he and Jones were both Pro Bowl regulars.

    Now look at Alexander's impressive numbers. They take off when he takes over for Watters in 2001, dip a little in 2002, and then improve consistently from 2003-2005. All of that happens in tandem with a solid LT-LG-C-RG combo, and the dip coincides with the one season in that stretch where part of the line had to be shuffled due to injury.

    That consistency along the bulk of the O-line (and especially the interior of the O-line) is absolutely VITAL to a team's run game, and it's something we've never had during Lynch's time with the team.

    And I want to make clear that my choice doesn't hinge on thinking Alexander was soft, or that he was in any way something other than an elite RB. The question was which back in his prime would we want for a SB run right now. And I think with the shuffling we've had to do on our line this season, Lynch is the better choice. He obviously isn't the same home run threat that Alexander was, but he's more consistent in getting positive yardage. The way our team plays right now, I think that's hugely important.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:04 am
  • Lynch for me. My favorite thing about him is the fact that he got paid this offseason, and turns around, plays hurt, and has his best year in the NFL. There is no debate that when it comes to heart, Lynch is tops.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:27 am
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

    I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

    I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

    Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM


    Alexander was a talented runner, but I'd take Lynch seven days a week over Alexander. SA was a product of one of the best offensive lines in football for a good 5-6 years, with two potential HOF lineman (Jones/Hutch).

    The barometer is easy, how would each runner fare with the other's offense? Lynch would run for 2,000 yards every year with the line SA ran behind. If SA had to run behind this line? He'd be lucky to crack 1,000 yards, because Alexander didn't run through contact, he avoided it.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:37 am
  • LawHawk wrote:I'm surprised the vote is so lopsided. Until this year I would have said 37. This year I changed my mind. Alexander was fantastic, no doubt about it. But Lynch is about 5% more physically gifted and plays about 75% harder so I'm going with Lynch.

    Robbie Tobeck was asked this on Brock & Salk this week and he did not hesitate at all, he said Lynch. It wasn't exactly "Who is the better player" it was more like "What would your line have done with Marshawn Lynch" and from his answer it was totally clear that he thinks Lynch is the better player.


    I appreciate you mentioning the Brock and Salk discussion. I went and listened to the podcast and I'm glad to hear them say what I believe. Interesting comments by Tobeck and Terrill.

    "Lynch would have ran for over 2,000 yards (in 2005). Type of runner that gets other guys fired up and makes you want to work harder for him"....Tobeck

    "You can't ever replace a running back like Marshawn Lynch. Having to prepare for him is almost impossible. He's a guy that one guy just can't tackle, he'll run you over"...Terrill
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:40 am
  • good point. but was the question who would be the best runner behind each others line, or who was/is the best running back in their prime.. i say alexander had a larger skill set and an all around better runner... i think barry sanders is the greatest back of all times, but emmett smith has the record.. put barry behind emmett's line, that record would have been shattered, beyond belief...
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:53 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

    I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

    I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

    Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM


    Alexander was a talented runner, but I'd take Lynch seven days a week over Alexander. SA was a product of one of the best offensive lines in football for a good 5-6 years, with two potential HOF lineman (Jones/Hutch).

    The barometer is easy, how would each runner fare with the other's offense? Lynch would run for 2,000 yards every year with the line SA ran behind. If SA had to run behind this line? He'd be lucky to crack 1,000 yards, because Alexander didn't run through contact, he avoided it.


    I totally agree with this, and think ML would have had monster years behind SA's OL. While Lynch doesn't have the all out speed SA did, he doesn't go down easy when getting to the second level (not that SA in his prime went down easy). Beastquake is an awesome example of what the guy can do when the tacklers are not D linemen and LBs, and he isn't exactly slow.

    I guess it also comes down to what type of team you like to watch. I like me some smash mouth football, and for that kind of ball there is no way that SA can match ML. Maybe my memory has faded, but I never, ever, remember seeing SA break a tackle in the backfield. Ever. IIRC, SA would go down when hit in the backfield (as seldom as that was), he would avoid hits when running to the sideline, and I never remember him hurting people. Lynch does all of those things every single game. No question in my mind here (even if SA would get more yards and TDs -not saying he would but even if one assumed he would) because our team would not be the same.

    Edit: I just read in the Seattle Times that Lynch is on pace for the 3rd best season for any Seahawk running back. Kind of interesting.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:58 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:Lynch with Mack Truck, er I mean Mack Strong.

    Truth is tho, Shaun ran a lot on the Right side with success, Hutch & Jones weren't always in the play.
    Lynch just refuses to let anyone take him down with a high tackle/ Alexander has a 5 TD record in 1/2 game, and 1,880 yard Season, so this isn't an easy choice if we're being honest here.


    Shaun Alexander was 5 yards down the field on every run before he got hit. Could you imagine what Marshawn could do with an offensive line that did that for him? Lynch is my pick and I don't think the choice is difficult at all.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:07 am
  • yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

    for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

    to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:14 am
  • redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

    for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

    to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.


    I disagree, I'm 42, and I've been a fan since I was six. But, more importantly, I just like ML's style of play better. Hated it every time SA ran out of bounds to avoid contact, and he did that a LOT his entire career.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:20 am
  • redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

    for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

    to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.


    I've watched the Hawks from day #1. I said that SA was a great runner, but this comes down to running style........and I love the way Lynch runs as if his very life depended on him getting one more yard. Lynch has single handedly raised the level of toughness and play of his entire offensive unit. Infectious to the bone. THAT is "better" to me.

    I also take exception to "better all around back." Alexander didn't exactly have amazing hands, and he was a terrible blocker...........and by the time Lynch's career is over he's going to equal SA's yards and TD's.

    That's the problem with comparing athletes when one is retired and one is still in his prime, you don't have two equally comparable bodies of work. But I'm confident in saying that by the time Lynch's career is over, he will be the "better" back.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:20 am
  • The Radish wrote:They are such totally different runners its hard to compare.

    With the line we had in 05 I'm taking Alexander cause he was the more elusive guy. Like many of the great ones he could get through little cracks and be gone. He also had more straight line speed than Lynch. A bit like Sayers he had a couple of extra gears that if you let him get going in a straight line it was very hard to run him down. He was clear into NFL ball before anyone taught him to breath while running. Up to then he had held his breath on breakaways. After that he was rarely caught from behind once he hit his stride.

    With a so-so line we have now a back like Lynch is the best choice by a bus length. I would love to see a dominating O line for Lynch but I think that is still at least 2 years away.

    Seahawks fans can truly appreciate a line with all the same players. A couple of times we had that. Most of the Watters years. But of course lines like the ones with Walter, Toebeck, Hutchinson, all in their prime are dream ones that any team would take anytime. I believe that lineup for about 3 years was as good as the O lines of the the Packers in the Paul Horung glory days and for me that's really saying something. Even the 85 Bears couldn't match them.

    Think I'm kidding? Take a look at records of most points scored in single games and you will be amazed to see the Golden Boy still holds a bunch of records. And that's from the late 50s and 60s. You'd think with the bigger faster kids of today those records would be blown away.

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    Sweet.

    I have to take Lynch because he's the type of back I want on my team. Ricky Watters was like that to an extent although they were different types of backs. Here's the question:

    1. Could Lynch flourish with the 2005 line?
    2. Could Alexander flourish with our present line?

    Theres your answer.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:20 am
  • Considering the numbers that Shaun got out of what was a short productive period in his career, he's one of the best. This is a big argument of what ifs, something we're used to as Seahawks fans. I voted for SA in the poll because I've seen him set records and go to a Super Bowl.

    I cannot emphasize enough how badly I want Lynch to change my mind.

    Also, on an unrelated note, did you guys know that there isn't a single HD Shaun Alexander highlight video on youtube? Every video I was able to find looks like it was filmed with a cell phone camera circa when SA was playing good ball.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:21 am
  • Lynch is all about a consistency. He will get a few positive yards almost every time he touches the ball. Problem I see with Lynch is, he rarely runs more than 10 yards. How many times have we all watched there be a HUGE hole opened up and Lynch runs for 5 yards and looks for someone to hit?

    I think there is some validation to the statement that Alexander's legacy got tainted by the down years and super bowl loss. It seems some people exaggerate a little about how good Tobeck, Gray, and Locklear were. Jones and Hutch are hall of famers but the other three weren't exactly world beaters (in particular I remember being pissed at old man Gray a couple times). It's easy to look back to the time we went to our super bowl and look at things in a different light than they actually were. I would be very curious to see if someone could compare Tobeck, Gray, and Locklear vs Unger, Moffitt, and Breno. I don't have anything in front of me but I would suspect that it's a bit closer than some think.

    With all that said, gotta say Alexander. We can talk all day about what Lynch would've done with his line and what not but Lynch doesn't have Alexander's line and never will. Alexander fit well with what his offense did just like Lynch fits what our offense does. You can't do a fair comparison by throwing in the "yeah but if this happened". What did happen is Alexander had an incredible couple of years capped by one the best seasons by a RB in league history. No where in the record books does it say Touchdowns in a season #2 The Seattle Seahawks offensive line.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 am
  • Like how it has gotten to the point of people picking Lynch as I did. That people start questioning how long we have been fans or been watching. I have been a diehard seahawks fan since memory and used to go to every training camp before joining the military. I have watched every game possible since the thought of seahawks was in my brain. I like Lynch because of his brutal running style. He is a lot faster than people think and i think he would surprise you compared to Alexander. I think Lynch is just as fast if not a little faster and more explosive. Detroit game anyone? As some people have said Lynch turns losses to no gains and 2 or 3 yard runs into 6 or 7 yard runs. Now seriously how can you say that Okung, whoever is in at LG, Unger, whoever is RG, is better than HOF Jones, HOF Hutchinson, Tobeck, Chris Gray? I am sorry but i laughed when i saw that. Our line doesn't have the chemistry those guys have yet and they aren't exactly dominating the LOS play in and play out. Lastly have a guy who played with Alexander say Lynch would have had 2000 yards behind us? Shouldn't that tell you something who they think is better and would have hit more home runs? I said it from the first game i saw lynch play against the Bears i said to my family and friends this is the best RB i have ever seen play for us. So it makes me happy that this topic is actually coming to light. Lynch deserves this type talk because of what he brings to the field game in and game out.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:33 am
  • redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

    for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

    to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.


    I watched every run both running backs ever made with the Seahawks. Alexander was infuriating at times when he would just fall down or run out of bounds to avoid contact. Alexander left A LOT of yards on the field by doing so. I saw many weak arm tackles bring Alexander down between the 20's and rarely see them bring Lynch down. Alexander only stepped it up and got tough when a score was to be had. Alexander seemed to be a "me" guy. Alexander seemed more concerned with self preservation than he was winning. Lynch at times does too much. Sometimes, I wish I could combine the two and make the best running back in the history of the NFL.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved what Alexander did. I just think he could have been a WHOLE LOT better. I don't think Alexander gave his all.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:50 am
  • To me it comes down to how they play in the playoffs. SA disappeared in the SB in 05 and Lynch earthquaked us to a victory in 2010. So for that I take Marshawn by a little baby stiff-arm
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:07 am
  • bmorepunk wrote:Curt Warner in 1983 or 1986.

    :13: Vision as good as Alexander and ran harder than Shaun though obviously not as hard as Beast. But of course Curt was way more elusive than Marshawn. Between the 2 in the poll, Lynch because I want that huge amount of heart he has. SA didn't have half the heart Beast has.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:28 am
  • What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:38 am
  • sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.


    Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

    Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

    Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:38 am
  • SA just slipped by people, super slick for being as big a back as he was. He had a very rare skill set and made it look easy. I think that strength is probably what makes him so under appreciated now.

    He made it look so easy it often times looked like he was doing nothing special at all. It's a shame really.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:39 am
  • Alexander folded and fell down if a 190 lb cornerback was near him when he couldve put his helmet in the little dudes chest and picked up another 5 yards. Hey I know a back who does that. Ricky Watters did that too. Remember when Alexander lost the rushing title by like 2 yards and then threw Holmgren under the bus? He over the course of the season probably gave up 100 yards by being a pussy and falling to his knees behind the line of scrimmage if he didnt see a clear running lane.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:50 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.


    Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

    Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

    Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?



    Curt was awesome. There is a lot of younger fans that have no idea how good Warner was. Also, he was a great receiver. I like Lynch a lot, thought Alexander was good too, but Warner was simply amazing. But I think our best back is yet to achieve the spotlight.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:00 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.


    Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

    Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

    Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?


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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:09 pm
  • morgulon1 wrote:Alexander folded and fell down if a 190 lb cornerback was near him when he couldve put his helmet in the little dudes chest and picked up another 5 yards. Hey I know a back who does that. Ricky Watters did that too. Remember when Alexander lost the rushing title by like 2 yards and then threw Holmgren under the bus? He over the course of the season probably gave up 100 yards by being a pussy and falling to his knees behind the line of scrimmage if he didnt see a clear running lane.


    This is only correct for that last year and he was playing injured. Even then he gutted out a 40 carry 200 performance.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:16 pm
  • posted somethin else but startin a new thread on it..

    anyway you look at it we've been lucky to have 2 great and entertaining rbs in seattle in the past 10 years and i cant honestly compare either because they are as far apart on opposite ends of the spectrum as you could get for guys playing the same position.. its like comparing a guy like calvin johnson to jerry rice.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 pm
  • Alexander never ran hard and physical, would not run the hole designed many times to the frusteration of Holmgren and the line had to figure out where he was going. This is not my opinion it was stated several times by interviews at the time. Only time Alexander manned up was inside the 20. Alexander left a lot of yards on the feild every week, I'm not saying he had to bull through a fence of defenders either, many times he would duck and curl or give it up with just a linebacker and DB to bust through.

    Lynch behind that line would have looked like Earl Campbell or John Riggins in their prime and in Houston and Washington. They like Lynch once moving and up to speed would look like a bowling ball plowing thru pins on their runs. Lynch would have had 3 to 5 yards most times to get momentum and it would have been devastating for teams, Add the blocking of Strong as well and our WR's that blocked down field as well.

    Watters and Lynch are comparable I think. more closer compliment to each others styles.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:32 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.


    Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

    Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

    Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?


    "only 4000"
    "easily surpass"

    very few running backs are effective past 28. Steven Jackson and Frank Gore are the only 2 in the league I can think of right now - one would be a first ballot hall of famer if he played for any team other than the Rams, and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:38 pm
  • themunn wrote:.......and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.

    Look man, I also think the Whiners o-line is quite good but they are no way better than the Hawks' o-line SA ran behind. Walter Jones is simply one of the greatest football players ever and Hutch is a sure fire first ballot HOFer.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:40 pm
  • i hate it when people say alexander didnt run hard.. its all a matter of perception.. lynch trucks guys.. just blows them up and shakes them off.. alexander was a lot more like a greased pig he just shed tacklers with a slight drop of a shoulder, arch of the back, well timed highstep.. or made a slight cut with his deceptive speed and glided by them..

    to say alexander didn't run hard and always got tackled by single cbs n what not.. go back to the film.. this is simply not true and people are generally basing their opinion off alexander's last year or two with the seahawks where he was oft injured and running behind a line that completely fell apart.

    once again.. comparing alexander and lynch is like comparing jerry rice and calvin johnson... two completely different style players
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:40 pm
  • Interesting debate. The only argument I can't see is the argument that it's a landslide in either direction.

    Shaun made his job look so easy that we often wondered how hard he was trying. As far as natural running skills, there have been few in NFL history as blessed as Shaun Alexander. When he had the ball in his hands, it seemed there was nothing he couldn't do. If he got a glimpse of the end zone, he was gone.

    Even though Lynch makes more jaw-dropping plays, I don't think he has Alexander's vision. However, Lynch seems to be able to do things that no other RB can. We're very fortunate to have one, and very fortunate to have had the other.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Lynch... for anyone thinking alexander.. remember he only did well if untouched... and if you look at it that way you may as well ask your self. Lynch or Washington.
    leon goes down by air drafts... so.... to me the logical choice with this team is lynch.

    I would take LEON over SHAUN i think in 2005 becuase he is faster than shuan and goes down just as easy.
    I think... someone more intelegent should comment
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:42 pm
  • themunn wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

    While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

    Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.


    Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

    Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

    Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?


    "only 4000"
    "easily surpass"

    very few running backs are effective past 28. Steven Jackson and Frank Gore are the only 2 in the league I can think of right now - one would be a first ballot hall of famer if he played for any team other than the Rams, and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.


    That's very true. Four grand is a lot of mileage, especially for a guy who runs like Lynch, and especially for a guy with a finicky back like Lynch.

    As to the original question, I'd take Alexander there too. The guy had an awful lot of 1-yard touchdowns, and an equal number of converted 3rd and 4th and ones. He was absolutely money in short yardage in his peak. We don't see Lynch get the opportunities as often, whether they believe he isn't going to get the yardage, or if he gets the carry, it's not guaranteed he gets it. Not knocking Lynch at all. Dude's a beast. An absolute monster. But Alexander was special in his prime. If it was goal-to-go from the one yard line, we were already celebrating points when the ball was snapped.

    I'd love to see Lynch eclipse everything Alexander did - because I want continual improvement. I want Turbin to eclipse Lynch when it's his turn to start. But for now, they're still behind Alexander in that department.
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:43 pm
  • redhawk253 wrote:i hate it when people say alexander didnt run hard.. its all a matter of perception.. lynch trucks guys.. just blows them up and shakes them off.. alexander was a lot more like a greased pig he just shed tacklers with a slight drop of a shoulder, arch of the back, well timed highstep.. or made a slight cut with his deceptive speed and glided by them..

    to say alexander didn't run hard and always got tackled by single cbs n what not.. go back to the film.. this is simply not true and people are generally basing their opinion off alexander's last year or two with the seahawks where he was oft injured and running behind a line that completely fell apart.

    once again.. comparing alexander and lynch is like comparing jerry rice and calvin johnson... two completely different style players


    I would say after 2005 alexander was not trying or he simply never had it.
    he would fall before he got touched... (thats how i remember the post superbowl years anyhow).
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Re: Lynch vs. Alexander
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:45 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    themunn wrote:.......and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.

    Look man, I also think the Whiners o-line is quite good but they are no way better than the Hawks' o-line SA ran behind. Walter Jones is simply one of the greatest football players ever and Hutch is a sure fire first ballot HOFer.


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