kearly wrote:A fun fact for everyone who thinks Shaun's line was way better than Lynch's current one:

Football Outsiders rankings:

Seahawks 2012 run blocking: 3rd... (4.50 adjusted line yards)
Seahawks 2005 run blocking: 6th... (4.42 adjusted line yards)

Seahawks 2012 pass blocking: 16th... (6.2% adjusted sack rate)
Seahawks 2005 pass blocking: 13th... (5.9% adjusted line yards)

That's surprisingly close, and Lynch has actually had better push up front so far than even Shaun did in 2005. It's worth noting that our current line is penalized waaaaaay more and that doesn't factor into these metrics. Additionally, Wilson is harder to sack than Hasselbeck is. But still, our current line is pretty damn under-rated.

As said before, both Lynch and Shaun were very different backs when Seattle's line sucked from 2006-2010. Both have needed good blocking to produce.

kearly wrote:A fun fact for everyone who thinks Shaun's line was way better than Lynch's current one:

Football Outsiders rankings:

Seahawks 2012 run blocking: 3rd... (4.50 adjusted line yards)
Seahawks 2005 run blocking: 6th... (4.42 adjusted line yards)

Seahawks 2012 pass blocking: 16th... (6.2% adjusted sack rate)
Seahawks 2005 pass blocking: 13th... (5.9% adjusted line yards)

That's surprisingly close, and Lynch has actually had better push up front so far than even Shaun did in 2005. It's worth noting that our current line is penalized waaaaaay more and that doesn't factor into these metrics. Additionally, Wilson is harder to sack than Hasselbeck is. But still, our current line is pretty damn under-rated.

As said before, both Lynch and Shaun were very different backs when Seattle's line sucked from 2006-2010. Both have needed good blocking to produce.

Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
Losses: 120% value
0-4 Yards: 100% value
5-10 Yards: 50% value
11+ Yards: 0% value
These numbers are then adjusted based on down, distance, situation, opponent, and the difference in rushing average between shotgun compared to standard formations. Finally, we normalize the numbers so that the league average for Adjusted Line Yards per carry is the same as the league average for RB yards per carry. These stats are explained further here.
The following stats are not adjusted for opponent:
RB Yards: Yards per carry by that team's running backs, according to standard NFL numbers.
Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.
Stuffed: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).
Second Level Yards: Yards which this team's running backs earn between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
Open Field Yards: Yards which this team's running backs earn more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.

kearly wrote:I think Shaun is the better RB, but it depends on what you want. If you want production, it's a young Shaun hands down. If you want consistency run for run, it's Lynch. A typical game for Shaun would be a lot of 2 yard gains with a few huge runs to raise his average. That said, yards are yards, and in-his-prime Shaun was great in short yardage situations. He was killer on screens too. When was the last time Lynch took a screen 80 yards to the house like Shaun used to?

For this offense though, it's hard to argue against Lynch. He brings consistency on every run which really helps Seattle's station to station ball control styled offense. That said, there are plays in every game where I see Lynch get 15 yards and think a young Alexander would have busted a long one for a score in the same situation, but on the other hand we'd have a lot more 3 and outs with Alexander. I think both RBs were well suited for the Seahawks eras that they played in.

Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM

Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM

LawHawk wrote:I'm surprised the vote is so lopsided. Until this year I would have said 37. This year I changed my mind. Alexander was fantastic, no doubt about it. But Lynch is about 5% more physically gifted and plays about 75% harder so I'm going with Lynch.

Robbie Tobeck was asked this on Brock & Salk this week and he did not hesitate at all, he said Lynch. It wasn't exactly "Who is the better player" it was more like "What would your line have done with Marshawn Lynch" and from his answer it was totally clear that he thinks Lynch is the better player.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

Hawkfan77 wrote:Why does it seem that most people voting in this poll are newer fans who came along during the SB run and remember SA during his years of decline?

I take Alexander hands down. I love BeastMode, but come on, this is SA by a mile. The guy won an MVP award! And for everyone talking about the line and how anyone could put up his numbers with that OL just stop. I'm not arguing that we didn't have a stud OL and the best in team history, but SA did what he did for years straight, it wasn't just his record breaking year.

I've honestly never seen a RB with SA's ability to get into the endzone, he was a special player for sure. And yes he actually did run hard. For those of us that watched him for his entire career, his "soft playing style" has been greatly over exaggerated. Did he seek out contact anywhere close to the level of Lynch? No, well he did if it meant scoring 6 points and I think that's why he gets a bad rap in Seattle. Only in this city will a player of close to HOF stature get bagged on by fans because of their "style of play."

Love them both and like Kearly said, they are two completely different runners, but it's SA>BM

Alexander was a talented runner, but I'd take Lynch seven days a week over Alexander. SA was a product of one of the best offensive lines in football for a good 5-6 years, with two potential HOF lineman (Jones/Hutch).

The barometer is easy, how would each runner fare with the other's offense? Lynch would run for 2,000 yards every year with the line SA ran behind. If SA had to run behind this line? He'd be lucky to crack 1,000 yards, because Alexander didn't run through contact, he avoided it.

scutterhawk wrote:Lynch with Mack Truck, er I mean Mack Strong.

Truth is tho, Shaun ran a lot on the Right side with success, Hutch & Jones weren't always in the play.
Lynch just refuses to let anyone take him down with a high tackle/ Alexander has a 5 TD record in 1/2 game, and 1,880 yard Season, so this isn't an easy choice if we're being honest here.

redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.

redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.

The Radish wrote:They are such totally different runners its hard to compare.

With the line we had in 05 I'm taking Alexander cause he was the more elusive guy. Like many of the great ones he could get through little cracks and be gone. He also had more straight line speed than Lynch. A bit like Sayers he had a couple of extra gears that if you let him get going in a straight line it was very hard to run him down. He was clear into NFL ball before anyone taught him to breath while running. Up to then he had held his breath on breakaways. After that he was rarely caught from behind once he hit his stride.

With a so-so line we have now a back like Lynch is the best choice by a bus length. I would love to see a dominating O line for Lynch but I think that is still at least 2 years away.

Seahawks fans can truly appreciate a line with all the same players. A couple of times we had that. Most of the Watters years. But of course lines like the ones with Walter, Toebeck, Hutchinson, all in their prime are dream ones that any team would take anytime. I believe that lineup for about 3 years was as good as the O lines of the the Packers in the Paul Horung glory days and for me that's really saying something. Even the 85 Bears couldn't match them.

Think I'm kidding? Take a look at records of most points scored in single games and you will be amazed to see the Golden Boy still holds a bunch of records. And that's from the late 50s and 60s. You'd think with the bigger faster kids of today those records would be blown away.

redhawk253 wrote:yes alexander had a great o line.. but he still had to make the plays.. lynch is a good running back too.. but he doesn't put up even close to the numbers alexander did.. i love both of them but they are completely different runners.

for you guys that are saying its not even close.. lynch all day.. i'd first ask how old you are and how much you actually watched alexander the great play.. then i'd say go watch some youtube highlights.. it aint the o line choosing what hole to run through or gliding by guys like they are standing still or juking in the open field.. dont be confused by alexanders ailments late in his career and the fallout from the beginning of our o line woes.. he is an alltime great with borderline HOF numbers.

to pick one or the other is silly because this run game was designed for lynch so lynch performs better in it.. i guarantee if you put lynch behind alexander's line the great still comes out ahead simply because of his vision and the way he could cut once and be gone.

bmorepunk wrote:Curt Warner in 1983 or 1986.

sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.

Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?

Sgt. Largent wrote:

sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.

Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?

morgulon1 wrote:Alexander folded and fell down if a 190 lb cornerback was near him when he couldve put his helmet in the little dudes chest and picked up another 5 yards. Hey I know a back who does that. Ricky Watters did that too. Remember when Alexander lost the rushing title by like 2 yards and then threw Holmgren under the bus? He over the course of the season probably gave up 100 yards by being a pussy and falling to his knees behind the line of scrimmage if he didnt see a clear running lane.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.

Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?

themunn wrote:.......and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.

themunn wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

sammyc521 wrote:What I'm reading is style vs. production.

While hypothetical are fun, Alexander produced.

Lynch's style though is easily something to long for. In their Prime Alexander's production is redonkilous.

Lynch doesn't produce? #2 this year, and only behind arguable the greatest RB in history who is playing out of his mind.

Lynch is also only 4,000 yards behind Alexander for career yards. At age 26 he should easily surpass that number.

Let me ask the Alexander supporters one question..........if your life depended on one of these backs getting one yard, who would you choose?

"only 4000"
"easily surpass"

very few running backs are effective past 28. Steven Jackson and Frank Gore are the only 2 in the league I can think of right now - one would be a first ballot hall of famer if he played for any team other than the Rams, and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.

redhawk253 wrote:i hate it when people say alexander didnt run hard.. its all a matter of perception.. lynch trucks guys.. just blows them up and shakes them off.. alexander was a lot more like a greased pig he just shed tacklers with a slight drop of a shoulder, arch of the back, well timed highstep.. or made a slight cut with his deceptive speed and glided by them..

to say alexander didn't run hard and always got tackled by single cbs n what not.. go back to the film.. this is simply not true and people are generally basing their opinion off alexander's last year or two with the seahawks where he was oft injured and running behind a line that completely fell apart.

once again.. comparing alexander and lynch is like comparing jerry rice and calvin johnson... two completely different style players

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:

themunn wrote:.......and the other plays behind an even better line than Alexander had.

Look man, I also think the Whiners o-line is quite good but they are no way better than the Hawks' o-line SA ran behind. Walter Jones is simply one of the greatest football players ever and Hutch is a sure fire first ballot HOFer.