keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts

redhawk253

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i've seen people touch on this in several other threads and i don't want to hijack so im starting a new one.. when people are talking about trading/keeping flynn they keep hitting on a couple of things.. his value in trade and his cap hit in relation to having wilson as a 3rd round pick not making much.

personally i'd think keeping flynn is a good option when considering the likely trade value for him is going to be a 3rd at best or later unless we start blowing everyone out and he gets a quarter or two of play in the next couple games and is able to show off some. if we were offered a 2nd.. i'd jump on that in a heart beat.

however, i dont think keeping him beyond this season is viable.. yes we have russell wilson at a very low cap hit because he's a 3rd round rookie.. however we have to think beyond just the position of qb.. we could find a backup for wilson at a much cheaper price.. consider the avg salary for an nfl backup qb is about 1.6-2 mill per year.. however they are widely varying and thats probably a little higher than it should be due to situations like ours and the niners where there is/was a qb controversy and you end up with a backup making 5-8 million in a year.. flynn's contract calls for 5.25 million in 2013 and 6.25 million in 2014, over the course of the next two years that would be 11.5 million dollars.. wilson has shown no signs of being injury prone, our line is starting to play better around him and should improve in the offseason some more, he's taken some hits this year already and no signs of ill effect so i'd assume flynn will just rot away another season. now you have to consider the names on defense who will eventually want to be paid.. and its going to be cutting it very close to keep the guys we have.. i think we will end up losing atleast one or two names that most of us dont want to see go, browner is the guy i see being a casualty of not having enough to pay him.. he's almost 30.. hasn't had a big pay day yet in the nfl so he's going to be looking for his contract to get him set up for the rest of his life. anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
 

razgriz737

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redhawk253":1lha1rnu said:
anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
Agree with this a lot.
 
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redhawk253

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so who would you like to see brought in as a backup? i saw hasselbeck's name mentioned before and i think that would probably work out well. he's played for pete and had a taste of his offense so he would be a quick fit and i think he would thrive in a backup role would be a great teacher for wilson.
 

ImTheScientist

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redhawk253":3u9oqf14 said:
so who would you like to see brought in as a backup?

100% yes, just not Hasselbeck.....that era is long gone and he doesn't fit what we do. I would prefer they draft someone in the 6th - 7th round (as well as sign a backup) and develop the 6th/7th round guy so he could backup at some point or be trade bait.
 

Missing_Clink

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Seems like a good plan to me. I like Flynn a lot but there are other priorities for sure. Josh Johnson could be a nice backup I think.
 

kidhawk

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You don't overpay the DB's and undervalue the QB, that's just ludicrous. Flynn's contract is high, but not out of range of some of the better backup qb's in the league.

Russell Wilson will get BANK when he re-ups after his third year. At this point, we can worry about restructuring Flynn or moving on to another backup, but until then, we are not hurting our cap numbers by keeping him around.

When you have a team salary cap, you have to have allotments for each position. There are many creative ways to stagger payments and using bonuses and other such things to make very good contracts fit into the cap.

Again, and I can't reiterate this enough....we have MORE THAN ENOUGH cap room to re-sign the players we want to keep AND keep Flynn.

The title of this thread is just WRONG. There is no choice between Flynn and our DB's we can easily keep both under the cap
 

amill87

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Flynn definitely isn't gonna be around for long. I think we need to get a back up who is similar to Wilson, Hass is nothing like him.

I think we will draft a back up to groom or maybe even bring back Portis if they like him enough once we ship Flynn out.
 

kidhawk

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amill87":1f7ygl5u said:
Flynn definitely isn't gonna be around for long. I think we need to get a back up who is similar to Wilson, Hass is nothing like him.

I think we will draft a back up to groom or maybe even bring back Portis if they like him enough once we ship Flynn out.

If we wanted to keep Portis, he'd still be here. They wouldn't risk him hitting the market if they felt he was a viable option as a 2nd string qb.
 

Scottemojo

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This is misleading. The decision on Flynn is more of a 2013 pre-season decision, and none of our secondary players have to be locked up until after the seasson, though I would expect at least one or two of them to be extended before the end of the 2013 season.
 

Jazzhawk

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razgriz737":2d7epqy6 said:
redhawk253":2d7epqy6 said:
anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
Agree with this a lot.
A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.
 
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redhawk253

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kidhawk":iijxtuqt said:
You don't overpay the DB's and undervalue the QB, that's just ludicrous. Flynn's contract is high, but not out of range of some of the better backup qb's in the league.

you're response is completely misleading.. i would agree you don't overpay a DB and underpay a starting QB.. but thats exactly where you went wrong.. flynn is a backup.. not a starter.. he is making starter money. thats not undervaluing a player.. we have a qb who has shown everything a rookie could to point towards becoming elite in the near future. now where did i ever say we need to overpay sherman? thats right i didn't sherman is one of the top 3 corners in the game right now.. maybe the best.. where are you getting this info that we will be able to keep all of our secondary players? see you hit on a good point that i may not have mentioned but yeah there are many creative ways of structuring players contracts n what not.. one being front loading a players contract.. those 5.5 and 6.5 million dollar hits in the upcoming 2 years could be used to start getting players locked down. do you have any idea of the names coming up for free agency in the near future that will be expecting big pay days? lets have a look.. and im going to just delve into the whole team since theres some other important names in there like tate...

cameron morrah - UFA 2013
leroy hill - UFA 2013
jason jones - UFA 2013

kam chancelor - UFA 2014
brandon browner - RFA 2014
anthony mccoy - UFA 2014
ben obamanu - UFA 2014
michael robinson - UFA 2014
golden tate - UFA 2014
walter thurmond - UFA 2014
doug baldwin - RFA 2014

leon washington - UFA 2015
kj wright - UFA 2015
john moffit - UFA 2015
richard sherman - UFA 2015
earl thomas - UFA 2015
chris clemmons - UFA 2015 (think he will be gone)

theres others as well but these are the names that popped out at me.. most of these guys are starters, projected starters, or atleast see a lot of snaps.. i mean look at the names in 2014 and 2015.. you know that sherman and thomas are going to get paid then guys like tate especially if he keeps up what he's doing is gona have a high price too.. we cant hold off too much longer on getting some of those guys locked up.. we don't want sherman, thomas, or tate testing the market.. im not saying that that 11.5 million is enough to do so.. but i sure as hell would rather throw that 5-6 million in each of the next years at extending someone who plays every snap and plays a vital role on the team than a backup qb. the end.
 

kidhawk

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Jazzhawk":g9hrtjac said:
razgriz737":g9hrtjac said:
redhawk253":g9hrtjac said:
anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
Agree with this a lot.
A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.

To answer your question, the CBA states that a team cannot renegotiate a rookie contract until after the END of the 3rd season. I looked this up in the actual CBA online recently just to be sure
 
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redhawk253

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Jazzhawk":8zqqsv2y said:
razgriz737":8zqqsv2y said:
redhawk253":8zqqsv2y said:
anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
Agree with this a lot.
A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.

you should probably read the entirety of the post before commenting.. he is scheduled to make 5.25 mill next year and 6.25 the year after for a total of 11.5 million and sherman is just an example.. there are several other players that need to be taken care of that are more important to the team than flynn.
 

kidhawk

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redhawk253":2gr3hvb3 said:
you should probably read the entirety of the post before commenting.. he is scheduled to make 5.25 mill next year and 6.25 the year after for a total of 11.5 million and sherman is just an example.. there are several other players that need to be taken care of that are more important to the team than flynn.

We are pretty well under the cap, this year, and Flynn is due to make a reasonable salary. If we can't keep the players that we have due while keeping Flynn, than they are either looking for STUPID money or we have an idiot cap specialist. I don't believe either of these things are true.

Keeping Flynn or getting rid of Flynn will have NOTHING to do with his salary vs. the cap.
 

razgriz737

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Jazzhawk":25hxet60 said:
razgriz737":25hxet60 said:
redhawk253":25hxet60 said:
anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
Agree with this a lot.
A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.
Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.
 

kidhawk

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razgriz737":272img5o said:
Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.

That is not going to happen. we have over 10 million in cap space (Last I heard was 15 million, but I know it changes). I've seen teams with next to nothing still get big deals done for their players. If it came down to it, they'd get it done to keep players they feel is important. For us to worry about this is ridiculous. The team has full time cap strategists who know how to deal with these situations. It's not a problem
 
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redhawk253

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razgriz737 Whether it's this offseason said:
this is exactly my point and these guys are just trying to nitpick it.. theres a lot of big names coming up in free agency that are going to demand big money.. our team is going to have to do all it can to manipulate the cap to the point where we can lock these guys in and do other work in the offseason. 5.25 and 6.25 may not be huge ammounts of money in relation to some players contracts.. but its pretty damn big for a BACKUP QB!!! a backup qb averages 1.5-2 million a year.. and thats skewed because of issues like ours and the niners where a backup is making starter money.. i think its safe to say we could get away with paying a backup qb about 1-2 million a season saving us a good 3.25-4.25 in 2013 and 4.25-5.25 in 2014... that could be tate's salary... or michael robinson and wt3... thats a lot of damn money to invest in a backup qb.
 

mikeak

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I agree with the issue about salary but as much as I "love" RW he is a rookie and we don't know how things will go next year. He is also being run about more now so will he get injured?

To me we keep Flynn for next year. We go over the existing contracts and as we have cap room we increase the signing bonuses for next year and get right up to the cap.

2014 - we cut Flynn assuming RW pans out as expected. Maybe we picked up a 4th-6th round qb in this draft and we feel very good about him. We also resign the players we want to and we again frontload the contracts as much as possible

2015 we pay RW $20 million.........
 

Jazzhawk

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I agree that keeping Sherman and some others is important. But the cost of Flynn for the NEXT 2 years is not unreasonable at all. Combine that with the facts, as Kidhawk provided, we are well under the cap and are managed quite well. Personally, I'm just not of the opinion that we should just get rid of a perfectly good backup QB. Hey, Turbin is a great backup to Marshawn...lets trade him. Hey, Walter Thurmond is a great backup to Sherman and Browner...lets trade him. Hey, Jeron Johnson is a great backup to Earl Thomas...lets trade him. If the team really thinks they are paying too much, renegotiate Flynn's contract. Hey, that would make him even more attractive in a trade. Bottom line, I'd rather keep Flynn as a high quality backup that I know we could win games with should Wilson go out.
 

Jville

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Who would have thought that so many would be so bored with a run at making the playoffs. This season is not over. The fight for a championship is front and center. And yet many of you are missing out with a strange preoccupation with unloading contracts and players. :34853_doh:
 

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