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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:21 pm 
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So, the OP' premise was...keeping Flynn or keeping our secondary, basically saying since Flynn is making so much money next year, we won't be able to keep our secondary together, so we should ship him off for draft picks. So, in answer to that.....none of our Secondary are FA's next season, as kidhawk has accurately pointed out. Therefore, the point is moot.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:22 pm 
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you're playing stupid.. we all know they're not free agents next year... you are simply dodging the points im making.. these contracts will be jumping from about 500k a piece to 10-20 times that in a year or two time.. we have guys that are signed through longer periods of time that we can restructure to front portions of their contract with the extra money we save getting rid of flynn..

you dont think they're going to have to plan ahead for the hits on the cap these guys are going to make? they have to be thought of a year or two prior to this.. which is what they will be doing when they trade flynn this offseason and restructure contracts for 2014 and 2015 fronting some in 2013.. theres going to be several years in a row where they're gona have to cut fat paychecks.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Jazzhawk wrote:
So, the OP' premise was...keeping Flynn or keeping our secondary, basically saying since Flynn is making so much money next year, we won't be able to keep our secondary together, so we should ship him off for draft picks. So, in answer to that.....none of our Secondary are FA's next season, as kidhawk has accurately pointed out. Therefore, the point is moot.


no it was not.. dont put words in my mouth.. its obvious what my point is.. the time is coming soon where these guys will be free agents and we will have to plan ahead for the massive contracts they will be making so that we can maintain reasonable cap numbers for them over the course of their contracts. you guys must be flynn lovers or something.. you're making every excuse in the book not to use common sense.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Atradees wrote:
Flynn is awesome.

If Sherm can command 14 million a year would you pay it?



i dont know where you got 14 million a year when revis is only making 12 million.. but hypothetically speaking if sherm can command 14 million a year yeah i'll tell you exactly what i'd do.. id trade flynn and use the 6.25 million that he's scheduled to be paid to pay part of sherman's contract as he is 100 times more valuable to this team than flynn is.. take away that 6.25 million from 14 and it would be a 7.75 million dollar net cap hit. yuppp gladly.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Not convinced there is a trade market for Flynn.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:34 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
I don't think Flynn has any interest in staying around.

I would rather pick up a rookie in the 4-7th then keep Flynn around.


Yes, this is a great idea, because this year's crop of quarterbacks is the new norm, and we should expect to get a guy in the late rounds of the draft who can come in and take us into the playoffs if something happens to Wilson.

Hey I have an idea, why not just keep the one qb on the team, that way we save all that money we normally waste on a backup. We could let RealRob or one of our other guys with previous qb experience play if Wilson gets hurt.

:sarcasm_off:


As much as some folks hate to hear it Flynn IS a luxury for the Seahawks who is overpaying for a backup. He got his contract when the Hawks were unsettled at the QB position but now it has been settled. There are talents out there that this FO can zero in on at a better price point but we won't know until the off-season or before trade-deadlines next season. Both sides would like to see Flynn get his chance and move on sooner rather than later because Flynn is just not going to get any older or happier being warehoused in Seattle. Flynn has voiced his desire to be a starter somewhere and PC is a guy who is willing to help his players achieve success.

Other considerations: Team chemistry--With all the youth and relatively small salary on this squad it can't be stated enough that MONEY challenges attitudes. Will Browner, Sherman and Russell Wilson continue to suppress these feelings of inequity knowing they do the all work while a certain backup QB gets up to 8x their salary for doing nothing.
Also PC and our FO is all about getting the most out of their players, their picks and their money. They are about progress, competition and efficiency so it makes sense they will revisit Flynn's value to this team in the next year. There is much to this besides just cap space and player valuation--player objectives, attitudes and team chemistry to name a few.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:39 pm 
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yup russ.. its not efficient to pay a backup qb like a starter.. only one of em can be on the field at a time so that money could even be used to overpay a free agent player at another position in the offseason to upgrade our overall talent


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Here's the thing: we're fine in QB salary. Most teams with a good (read, not "elite" just good) QB are paying more for their starter than we are paying Wilson and Flynn combined. That's the reality of our situation at QB.

The OP says something like "let's look beyond the position, and look at all the FA's" I'm paraphrasing, but it's close. So, let's go ahead and look beyond the most important position on the field. Thing is, Flynn's position is just one play away from being the most important position. You can't overstate the value of a good backup QB.

As stated, we can't renegotiate with Sherman for a while. As for the rest of the list of FA's....well they're not expensive.

Wright might cost us a bit, but it's not going to be that much.
Obomanu is a fringe player. He'll be upgraded in the next couple of drafts.
Tate will get some money, but seeing as we're under the cap, we could probably extend him after this year for fairly cheap.
Chancellor is not playing his way into a big contract as of this year.
Thomas won't command more money than he already got for his rookie contract, meaning his cap hit for that position will stay the same.

We're not going to have to sign a lot of guys to big contracts. By the time Browner wants money, his age will preclude him from getting a lot on the open market. Sherman will probably be our most expensive FA, along with Wilson the year after that. Both players have a couple of years to prove they need that money.

The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:

The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.


Doesn't have to be the 6th or 7th... but why not a 3rd, 4th rounder... you know, like EVERY other team does with a starting QB on the roster?

Why didn't GB just re-sign Flynn? Have a great backup QB on the roster behind Rodgers... why would we do what GB wouldn't?

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:49 pm 
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SonicHawk wrote:
Hawks46 wrote:

The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.


Doesn't have to be the 6th or 7th... but why not a 3rd, 4th rounder... you know, like EVERY other team does with a starting QB on the roster?

Why didn't GB just re-sign Flynn? Have a great backup QB on the roster behind Rodgers... why would we do what GB wouldn't?

Because BG was in salary cap hell and could not afford him, he wanted to be a starter (oops), and he was a free agent. 2 of those three will not apply to us next year.

Thing is, our front office doesn't care. If there is a good deal to be had, they will do it. If there isn't, he is our backup. Its that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:51 pm 
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It's an absolute waste of money to pay a guy 5M to sit on the bench when all he is doing is getting older.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm 
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It's also weird as hell to pay your backup 13 times what you are paying your starter, CBA rules or no.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm 
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What the OP fails to realize here, besides the fact that there will be so many other changes to our roster by then, making this entire discussion today inane, is that if he trades away Flynn's salary to max the cap for our DB's and other talent, how is he going to pay Wilson when he's due in 2015 (the same year several of these vaunted DB's is due)? Keeping Flynn around until you decide to re-sign Wilson, keeps that position in a place where we can afford to give Wilson the huge jump he's going to need to stick around. If you max the cap out signing everyone else, you have nothing left for the qb position. Wilson won't be making under a million for long in this league, he'll demand a MUCH higher paycheck. THAT is the time to rework the backup position. Not now

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm 
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hawks46 i laughed out loud when i read that you think earl thomas will only be making what he made with his rookie contract hahahah...

bottom line is we're not riding a backup qb to the superbowl whether its flynn or tarvaris jackson.. if rw were to go down we'd be pretty much screwed unless we had a defense that could carry a team. we're only a couple pieces away from being an elite defense the likes of baltimore or tampa bay's superbowl teams sported.. so my question.. why pay flynn 5-6 million a year to ride the pine when in the end he's not going to take us to the bowl.. when we could use that 5-6 million a year going to his contract to overpay some defensive pieces in the free agent market to shore up our weaknesses we have and become that elite defense that can win even if rw were to go down? thats more likely than flynn taking us to a superbowl.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:57 pm 
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kidhawk i already touched on the fact were going to have to pay rw a huge contract in the future as well.. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING LOL.. you guys are insane.. these kinda contracts have to be planned for years ahead of time!!! you dont come into the season like "ok so we've got 10 million in expiring contracts coming off the books.. oh hey russell you're a free agent this year and you want to be paid like a top 5 qb? okay let me just go over some numbers.. oh hey sorry if we do that then we have exactly zero cap space left for the rest of our free agent aquisitions this offseason........"

by that time reworking the backup qb positions contract is gona be too late.. and its going to require a lot more than just that 5-6 million flynn is being paid now as long as rw keeps heading the direction he is... so yeah i'd say its pretty damn important to start planning on working these contracts out so that there will be a lot of cap space when the time comes.. this happens by restructuring guys in these current years when we have extra money to do so so their hits later on arent as much.. but to do that you cant be throwing money away at positions like backup qb where we're currently paying 3-6 times the avg salary. duh.


Last edited by redhawk253 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:59 pm 
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redhawk253 wrote:
hawks46 i laughed out loud when i read that you think earl thomas will only be making what he made with his rookie contract hahahah...

bottom line is we're not riding a backup qb to the superbowl whether its flynn or tarvaris jackson.. if rw were to go down we'd be pretty much screwed unless we had a defense that could carry a team. we're only a couple pieces away from being an elite defense the likes of baltimore or tampa bay's superbowl teams sported.. so my question.. why pay flynn 5-6 million a year to ride the pine when in the end he's not going to take us to the bowl.. when we could use that 5-6 million a year going to his contract to overpay some defensive pieces in the free agent market to shore up our weaknesses we have and become that elite defense that can win even if rw were to go down? thats more likely than flynn taking us to a superbowl.


You're right, no team has their starter go down only to have their backup take them to the superbowl. Never happen in a million yea.....oh wait, that's right it HAS happened.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/09000d5d824fceed#photo=1

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:02 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
redhawk253 wrote:
hawks46 i laughed out loud when i read that you think earl thomas will only be making what he made with his rookie contract hahahah...

bottom line is we're not riding a backup qb to the superbowl whether its flynn or tarvaris jackson.. if rw were to go down we'd be pretty much screwed unless we had a defense that could carry a team. we're only a couple pieces away from being an elite defense the likes of baltimore or tampa bay's superbowl teams sported.. so my question.. why pay flynn 5-6 million a year to ride the pine when in the end he's not going to take us to the bowl.. when we could use that 5-6 million a year going to his contract to overpay some defensive pieces in the free agent market to shore up our weaknesses we have and become that elite defense that can win even if rw were to go down? thats more likely than flynn taking us to a superbowl.


You're right, no team has their starter go down only to have their backup take them to the superbowl. Never happen in a million yea.....oh wait, that's right it HAS happened.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/09000d5d824fceed#photo=1


you're fricking hilarious.. i already had brady in my head but thats an exception to the rule and really doesnt apply in this situation..so you are essentially comparing flynn to brady then huh?.. lol goooooooooood night sweet jesus.. you're just a flynn lover in hiding trying to make up garbage excuses as to why he's worth keeping.

NEWS FLASH!!! matt flynn is not tom brady v2.0 hahahahhahaha good lord

oh and lets get this straight actually.. the patriots didn't ride brady to that superbowl win.. brady went 16 of 27 for 154 yards and 1 td.. the pats defense did however have a pick 6 and the final score was only a 3 pt differential.. so yeah they werent really riding brady. then you bring up dilfer.. yeah exactly prove my point some more.. the defense won that game.. dilfer has and always will be considered a role player on that team.


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Tom Brady was on his rookie contract.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm 
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redhawk253 wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
redhawk253 wrote:
hawks46 i laughed out loud when i read that you think earl thomas will only be making what he made with his rookie contract hahahah...

bottom line is we're not riding a backup qb to the superbowl whether its flynn or tarvaris jackson.. if rw were to go down we'd be pretty much screwed unless we had a defense that could carry a team. we're only a couple pieces away from being an elite defense the likes of baltimore or tampa bay's superbowl teams sported.. so my question.. why pay flynn 5-6 million a year to ride the pine when in the end he's not going to take us to the bowl.. when we could use that 5-6 million a year going to his contract to overpay some defensive pieces in the free agent market to shore up our weaknesses we have and become that elite defense that can win even if rw were to go down? thats more likely than flynn taking us to a superbowl.


You're right, no team has their starter go down only to have their backup take them to the superbowl. Never happen in a million yea.....oh wait, that's right it HAS happened.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/09000d5d824fceed#photo=1


you're fricking hilarious.. i already had brady in my head but thats an exception to the rule and really doesnt apply in this situation..so you are essentially comparing flynn to brady then huh?.. lol goooooooooood night sweet jesus.. you're just a flynn lover in hiding trying to make up garbage excuses as to why he's worth keeping.

NEWS FLASH!!! matt flynn is not tom brady v2.0 hahahahhahaha good lord

oh and lets get this straight actually.. the patriots didn't ride brady to that superbowl win.. brady went 16 of 27 for 154 yards and 1 td.. the pats defense did however have a pick 6 and the final score was only a 3 pt differential.. so yeah they werent really riding brady. then you bring up dilfer.. yeah exactly prove my point some more.. the defense won that game.. dilfer has and always will be considered a role player on that team.



I didn't bring up backups and the superbowl, you did. I merely pointed out why you were wrong about that. If you have a solid backup to put into a good team you can win the superbowl, so paying a solid guy to be the backup is NOT wasted and the season is not a waste when the starter goes down.

Not only is your point in the OP meaningless for at least 2 years (you don't dump salary this year to sign someone in 2 years), your theory of being out of contention if Wilson gets hurt is nearly as ludicrous.

As for a Flynn lover, I am quite firmly settled in my space aboard the Wilson train. I have no desire to replace him right now with anyone, Flynn included. What I am, is a fan of this team, and I want the best talent available at all the positions. When Pete and John find someone they like better for the position, then they'll replace Flynn, but to say that his $5 million cap number is an issue for next season is absolutely the stupidest currently on the front page of this forum. I showed you every player who will be a free agent next season, none of which, with the possible exception of Jones is a mandatory re-sign. Yes we'll replace them with new players and salaries, but we have enough cap room to do this and Keep Flynn. The Elite players on this team are staggered so only a few contracts end each year, meaning we can offer bonuses which pro-rate over the length of the contract, making it MUCH easier to fit them under whatever the cap is in that particular year. I also mentioned that we have over $10 million in cap space next year to fill those free agent positions, but we also have millions in dead cap money from old contracts that we took the hit for this year which will clear off for next year as well.

To sum up, there is absolutely no reason to worry about the backup qb position for the next season when it comes to the salary cap. Once we get closer to the end of next season, then it MIGHT be something that is an issue, but your entire premise about needing to get rid of Flynn for the cap is ludicrous and makes ZERO mathematical sense through the 2013 season

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:40 pm 
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SonicHawk wrote:
Not convinced there is a trade market for Flynn.


This post seems weird in the context of all your other posts in this thread. If there is no market for Flynn, how do we pick up a 4-7th rounder? If we cut him, don't we still take a cap hit in both seasons? If paying him to sit on the bench is bad, it seems paying him to sit on the couch would be worse. JMHO


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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:22 pm 
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redhawk253 wrote:
Atradees wrote:
Flynn is awesome.

If Sherm can command 14 million a year would you pay it?



i dont know where you got 14 million a year when revis is only making 12 million.. but hypothetically speaking if sherm can command 14 million a year yeah i'll tell you exactly what i'd do.. id trade flynn and use the 6.25 million that he's scheduled to be paid to pay part of sherman's contract as he is 100 times more valuable to this team than flynn is.. take away that 6.25 million from 14 and it would be a 7.75 million dollar net cap hit. yuppp gladly.


I think when Sherm becomes a free agent its certainly possible he will be pushing for the highest paid corner.
Do we keep him? It would cost more us than Flynn. Or next great find up!

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:58 am 
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BobcatHawk wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
Not convinced there is a trade market for Flynn.


This post seems weird in the context of all your other posts in this thread. If there is no market for Flynn, how do we pick up a 4-7th rounder? If we cut him, don't we still take a cap hit in both seasons? If paying him to sit on the bench is bad, it seems paying him to sit on the couch would be worse. JMHO


Flynn's signing bonus is counting against the cap at a rate of $2 million per season. they are allowed to split whatever remains between 2 seasons, so no matter what, at the end of this year if he's gone, they take that $4 million cap hit. The only choice is do they make it $2 million per year or take it all in one year.

The funny thing is that Flynn is a free agent in 2015. His deal here is for only 3 years (2 more after this year). His deal expires at the same time as a lot of the players the OP is worried about paying. The whole thread is ludicrous when you really think about the math, but that's not going to stop some people.

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
BobcatHawk wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
Not convinced there is a trade market for Flynn.


This post seems weird in the context of all your other posts in this thread. If there is no market for Flynn, how do we pick up a 4-7th rounder? If we cut him, don't we still take a cap hit in both seasons? If paying him to sit on the bench is bad, it seems paying him to sit on the couch would be worse. JMHO


Flynn's signing bonus is counting against the cap at a rate of $2 million per season. they are allowed to split whatever remains between 2 seasons, so no matter what, at the end of this year if he's gone, they take that $4 million cap hit. The only choice is do they make it $2 million per year or take it all in one year.

The funny thing is that Flynn is a free agent in 2015. His deal here is for only 3 years (2 more after this year). His deal expires at the same time as a lot of the players the OP is worried about paying. The whole thread is ludicrous when you really think about the math, but that's not going to stop some people.



What!!! You're saying people here have ludicrous long term ideas discussing conspiracys that would never happen in the real world????

Say it ain't so Sam.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: keeping flynn vs keeping our secondary
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:14 am 
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The Radish wrote:
Say it ain't so Sam. :roll:


It ain't so Sam :laugh:

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