Increased amount of running RW

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Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:34 pm
  • So I know the Read option has been used a lot more since the Chicago game and I know we have had success. I also know that RW slides more than RG3 (he would definately have slid where RG3 got injured).

    With that said - Bears hit RW on the head when he slid and it will keep happening. He exposes himself to hits during the run and when going for that first down on 3rd down runs he has shown several times that he will take a hit to get the first down.

    I like the fact that he somehow manages to more bounce of guys / dance the sideline and get less impact hits. Not sure if it is because of being nimble / size has something to do with it or what. He doesn't run the head on runs like an RB and I also think he is smarter with his runs than RG3 (turning into the field for the extra 1-2 yards is what caused the injury to RG3).

    The fact remains I believe that qb's that expose themselves to hits will get injured sooner or later. Look at Big Ben - people have been amazed at how he gets throws off after three guys are hanging on him. Well serious injuries comes from that type of play.

    So when Wilson was drafted and later started the big thing was that he doesn't run much - he scrambles but is looking downfield to pass at all times. He gets rid of the ball rather than taking a sack / big hit.

    So the game plan has clearly changed and I guess my three questions are the following:

    1) Is this a negative on RW that he needs to run to create plays or do people think the running will go away with time

    2) How concerned should we be about the increased amount of runs and increased risk of injuries

    3) What are people seeing that is positive in regards to RW limiting his exposure to big hits / injury causing hits
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:40 pm
  • I think it is important to have 2-4 designed runs per game for RW. It keeps linebackers back in the box, hampering them from jumping at the first look of a handoff. This in turn helps open up passing lanes, giving RW a lot more options. I agree with you that running leads to injuries, but the good thing is that RW is not a running quarterback. Just a quarterback who can run.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:40 pm
  • The running is bye design. We have incorporated the Read/Option.

    Our guy is durable and does a great job selling a fake down field or faking the hand-off.
    Last edited by Atradees on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:41 pm
  • He seems to be a smart runner, and the offense seems that much better with him making more plays with his feet, it also keeps the defense guessing. So the risk is worth the reward..
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:43 pm
  • mikeak wrote:1) Is this a negative on RW that he needs to run to create plays or do people think the running will go away with time


    I think it will continue to be a part of the game. The thing about his runs, is that they are all options, so he generally only runs when he sees an opening. These are less risky than designed running plays and will probably be a staple of the game. I do think an interesting fact about RW that a lot of people don't know or don't pay attention to, is that his QBR is higher from inside the pocket than from outside, so I'm also not worried about his ability to make plays from their either.

    mikeak wrote:2) How concerned should we be about the increased amount of runs and increased risk of injuries


    I think having a qb who runs around more like RW does, one should always be concerned about the possibility of an injury. This is why I think we must keep a good backup qb. I'm not a fan of trading Flynn for just this reason. Of course maybe Pete and John could find a good replacement, but I like the setup we have now and since we can't pay Wilson anymore until after his third year, Flynn's money doesn't hurt our cap value at all.

    mikeak wrote:3) What are people seeing that is positive in regards to RW limiting his exposure to big hits / injury causing hits


    I've said this before in other threads and in actual conversations I've had about Wilson, but I think it's what he's got in football smarts that helps him in this regard. he seems to know how to evade and get down or get out of bounds instead of taking big hits.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:43 pm
  • Atradees wrote:The running is bye design. We have incorporated the Read/Option.


    I fully understand this - that is kind of my point. It wasn't by design in the first games and it is now. That is for a reason and the concern is the cost that can come with it.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:49 pm
  • Image

    Here is a cool diagram.

    Also, I get your concern. Let's keep Flynn just in case....
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:I think it will continue to be a part of the game. The thing about his runs, is that they are all options, so he generally only runs when he sees an opening. These are less risky than designed running plays and will probably be a staple of the game. I do think an interesting fact about RW that a lot of people don't know or don't pay attention to, is that his QBR is higher from inside the pocket than from outside, so I'm also not worried about his ability to make plays from their either.

    .


    Good point with options being less risky. Still I hope that as he continues to get better we lessen the runs to 2-4 per game as suggested above. Then it is more the threat of the run that creates hole than the run itself

    kidhawk wrote:
    I think having a qb who runs around more like RW does, one should always be concerned about the possibility of an injury. This is why I think we must keep a good backup qb. I'm not a fan of trading Flynn for just this reason. Of course maybe Pete and John could find a good replacement, but I like the setup we have now and since we can't pay Wilson anymore until after his third year, Flynn's money doesn't hurt our cap value at all.
    .


    I 100% agree on keeping Flynn especially due to the style if this is the way forward

    kidhawk wrote:
    I've said this before in other threads and in actual conversations I've had about Wilson, but I think it's what he's got in football smarts that helps him in this regard. he seems to know how to evade and get down or get out of bounds instead of taking big hits.


    Interesting point. Wonder what he got on the wonderlick test and wonder what RG3 got :). Reacting on the fly requires the right instincts. Sure they can be learned over time but only certain people can react quickly enough to inofrmation they are seeing at the time....
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:58 pm
  • I would not call too many designed runs for him, just because I don't want him getting hit. Better to save the hits he will take on plays where things break down and he is forced to run. The good thing is that he is compact and doesnt seem to expose himself to big hits
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 pm
  • What I really like about the read option is it allows for Wilson to use his football smarts to decide which will work better. Also, in the read option, many times he is looking to throw. When doing this, if he looks to be getting hit before the line of scrimmage he'll be outside the pocket and able to legally throw it away. it also gives the Linebackers 2 things to worry about (will he throw or will he run) whichever they choose to respect (the run or the throw) he can choose the other and gain some yardage.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:07 pm
  • I don't think its a negative thing at all. In the beginning of the year, we saw him bail out of the pocket and run often. Pete made it a point to keep him in the pocket more. Since then, his pocket presence has grown exponentially and I believe Pete sees that and is allowing him to just make plays now. It adds another dimension to his game and what defenses have to account for so I'm all for it.
    Last edited by -The Glove- on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:07 pm
  • I thought he was concussed after he got planted on our first drive by the unblocked dlineman. His head took a nasty bounce off the ground. I thought he looked dazed and then I realized it was just his serial killer eyes staring back at me.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:09 pm
  • falcongoggles wrote:I thought he was concussed after he got planted on our first drive by the unblocked dlineman. His head took a nasty bounce off the ground. I thought he looked dazed and then I realized it was just his serial killer eyes staring back at me.


    Goddamn Breno! I really don't like that guy.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:14 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:What I really like about the read option is it allows for Wilson to use his football smarts to decide which will work better. Also, in the read option, many times he is looking to throw. When doing this, if he looks to be getting hit before the line of scrimmage he'll be outside the pocket and able to legally throw it away. it also gives the Linebackers 2 things to worry about (will he throw or will he run) whichever they choose to respect (the run or the throw) he can choose the other and gain some yardage.


    And then you throw in the killer pump fake he has and its just impossible to defend for a lot of guys.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:18 pm
  • RG3 is asking to be hit hard at this point. He's consistently fighting for the extra yard and/or diving in the air. Out here, they're legitimately asking on the radio whether they teach sliding in practice.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:37 pm
  • This is the evolution that is Russell Wilson, and it makes him that much more DangeRuss. It opens up the offense for Lynch and the passing game as well. We don't beat the Bears without this read option, or the read option run fake. Wished we started using this earlier in the season.

    If there's daylight to be had, take it. If not, pass it or hand it off to Lynch. Wilson is smart enough to make this distinction.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:06 pm
  • hoxrox wrote:This is the evolution that is Russell Wilson, and it makes him that much more DangeRuss. It opens up the offense for Lynch and the passing game as well. We don't beat the Bears without this read option, or the read option run fake. Wished we started using this earlier in the season.

    If there's daylight to be had, take it. If not, pass it or hand it off to Lynch. Wilson is smart enough to make this distinction.


    Yup, that final play with the TD to Rice in OT was a fake read/option. He faked the hand-off, looked like he was going to run it, then tossed it to Sidney. Worked perfectly. It just opens up so much potential.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:56 pm
  • I witnessed two slaughters at the beginning of this week. One orchestrated by the Seahawks and the other by the Patriots. Tom Brady stands back in the shotgun, looks downfield and makes a throw what 50 times a game or something. I think he tucked and ran once in the Texans game. Watt and the other Texans defensive players took a lot of punishing drive him to the ground hits on Brady even in a game where the Pats ended up destroying the Texans. Russell, on the other hand, was hit once in our game. I can't think of a game all season where Russell took the kind of beating Brady was taking in the first half. Many of the hits on TB were after pass release and they were often completions, but I couldn't help but think, wow, you need a mobile quarterback like RW in today's NFL.

    I think not being able to tuck and run from what was a designed pass play exposes you to more hits. Now, as to the read option type of stuff. RW is doing it very differently than RGIII. I'll have to watch some more Kaepernick. I think he is more inclined to go for bigger yards too. I think with RW we'll start to see more passing off the read option like the play to Rice to walk off at Soldier Field. I think this will happen as the receivers get more accustomed to it and get on the same page with RW. So, no I don't see it as too risky. I like the way he opts to slide even if it is a little short of a first down, bring up second and 3 and situations like that.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:58 pm
  • Russell is tougher than everyone gives him credit for. He got up from a major hit/concussion at NC State. At Wisconsin he threw an interception against MSU and ran down 20 yards to be the first to tackle the DB. He prepares himself physically, mentally and game-wise better than everyone he's ever played with. Running is just another part of his repertoire.

    Funny how some folks are massaging Flynn's thighs after those few awkward runs he had while continuing to gripe about Wilson's more capable and smoother running ability. LOL.
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Re: Increased amount of running RW
Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:04 pm
  • capncrunch, I agree with your post completely.

    Normally, I hate having the QB run. Thing is, Wilson is the smartest running QB I've ever seen. He knows when to avoid the hit, rarely gets lit up on the run, and is stocky enough to take the hits anyways. RGIII is a toothpick.
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