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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:21 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
montanahawk, is this your first year with the game of football?


Hahahahahaha. Wait, are you serious?

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:49 pm 
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I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Flynn win's those early games is smokin something. Russell survived because of his mobility. Flynn would have found his way onto the IR after that brutal stretch of games.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Don't have much to say about the guy.


-Didn't like his demeanor coming into the season after losing the job to RW, then again who wouldn't be bummed out? Don't feel bad for the guy at all, he's still getting paid and gets to put on a Seahawks uniform every Sunday!


-Wasn't too excited about having him be the starter just because of a few great games (didn't want to see another Kevin Kolb in the NFCW). Not entirely sold on him being able to carry the offense over a 16 game period, would not be surprised if he did though.


-He is a solid backup, nice to know if Russ goes down that guy is waiting on the sideline. Albeit, with a little bit of a chip on his shoulders.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:57 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
denial permeates this thread.

flynn looked good, threw some very good passes even with a quarter of play in for the first time (on a wide birth score). sharp passes complete and some bobbled by wrs.
*add: and I still say he beats phx and stl away games prior.

I think given the same games he throws better than RW, but ....we're going with RW for the youth and wheels (I can live with that, 3 games now and I like what RWs doing and there's more to come).

we may be able to retain flynn but I doubt it highly.


there's something wrong with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:21 pm 
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I see no value in trading Flynn unless Josh Johnson proves capable of running our offense with some efficiency. In that scenario, however, I like the idea of trading him outside the division to pick up some draft capital. Picking up a draft pick for a short-term rental would be outstanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:25 pm 
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I wonder if the members of the dump Flynn crowd were also members of the sign Hass or we are doomed group? The titans did not have a problem paying big bucks to Hass to be a backup. Why should we not feel the same here? A QB can go down in a single play and unless you have a very good QB you are in a world of hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:16 am 
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Montana you are crediting and bashing Flynn on the same play. The play he escaped the sack and threw while evading another defender is also the play Rice was blasted. The problem is it's a broken play, you don't have the luxury to sit back and read defenses, your being forced to make a play and he did.
As to the poster who says Flynn would be on IR, you are probably right if Flynn held the ball longer than any other QB in the NFL like Wilson but it's been blatantly obvious he actually gets rid of the ball much faster than Wilson and there is a ton of evidence he uses the whole field
Something Wilson has improved on through the course of the season but it was a big problem early on the year.
Keep in mind we went directly to that dreaded run run pass when Flynn came in, meaning Flynn had one chance per possession and all but one of those passes were very catchable. It's kind of hard to blame Flynn for back up receivers killing drives.
Flynn did what you want your QB to do and did it quickly even though he was asked to do so with no prep time and all back ups.

Personally I think Flynn will force either a trade or release. I would love to keep him as a back up fore er but I just don't believe he will be here. Hopefully he doesn't go to AZ because he would be an immediate upgrade over any QB on the roster and with Fitzgerald to throw to, he could be deadly. Not to mention that defense. He would make that team instantly relevant and next year he is cheap for a starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:29 am 
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Why do people think draft picks are so valuable? They are not more valuable than QBs that can play. Just ask Arizona.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:30 am 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
hawkfan1975 wrote:
denial permeates this thread.

flynn looked good, threw some very good passes even with a quarter of play in for the first time (on a wide birth score). sharp passes complete and some bobbled by wrs.
*add: and I still say he beats phx and stl away games prior.

I think given the same games he throws better than RW, but ....we're going with RW for the youth and wheels (I can live with that, 3 games now and I like what RWs doing and there's more to come).

we may be able to retain flynn but I doubt it highly.


there's something wrong with you.


didn't you try this posts earlier? the witty, one-off in an attempt to seem the know it all. it didn't work then, what makes you think another try will fare better?

look, if flynn bashing makes you feel safe then great, but how about limiting repeats and letting others talk on this forum as well?
ok with you?


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:34 am 
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Sorry Rich, no offense but this comment just doesn't compute.


"Personally I think Flynn will force either a trade or release. I would love to keep him as a back up fore er but I just don't believe he will be here."


I've heard others express this sentiment and have to ask. What leverage does Flynn have to force a trade? I said before what's he gonna do refuse to play? Remember he's not playing anyway. He's under contract, a damned good contract paying more money than he probably can get anywhere else.

From his side I think he will have to be here at least 3 years or he is pissing away great money that at his age he can't pass up. He's probably gotten the only big payday he's going to have the opportunity to get so he'd better pay attention to it.

Sure other teams would maybe like to have him. So what??? We have a good quality backup a luxury few teams have now a days. Money wise cause of Wilson's rookie contract we are proabably below what we would need to spend for 2 QBs.

Not sure but don't think the team can do a thing about reworking Wilson's rookie contract until the 3rd of 4 years. So why trade Flynn till then? Again, I think he has no leverage at all. Smartest move he could make is stick it out for 2 more seasons. Then look at his options. I'd wager he could stay here at that point with money about like Matt made with the Tits.

I know that most players would rather play on a losing team than sit on a winning one. But there is the chance here that he could be a hero now and then and still have a rosey retirement. Not get knocked around like so many active players do. Go off into the sunset with enough money to not be forced to work again and have wonderful storys to tell his grandchildren about Grandpa's days in the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:56 am 
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SEC FAN wrote:
skater18000 wrote:
So its hard to find a liable BACKUP... Tebow, Collin Klein, Travis Jackson are u kidding me.... plenty of good backups that will come here for way less money 2


You want Tebow, Klein, TJack over Matt Flynn? We already know the coaches prefer Flynn over TJack. So that leaves us with Klein and Tebow. I can't say you are wrong but only 2 teams wanted Tebow. Of those 2 teams in Jacksonville and NY Jets, the Jets won't even play him over a horrible starter. So that tells me atleast 31 teams wouldn't play him over their current starters. Klein isn't available until next year and he will be a rookie. He is a project middle round pick at best. So even if you get a 3rd rounder for Flynn, which is unlikely, you are drafting someone in the same round with no experience and is a project.

Flynn has experience, starter appeal, and his salary isn't that much. Remember he was just about our starter this year, but was beat out by the rookie of the year (potentially) who is leading his team to the playoffs.


You've given examples of backups that were good, but none were players picked up with the idea that "we need a great back-up behind our starter", all 3 were players that were picked up as potential starters in the future (or in Brady's case, probably a potential back-up, it's hardly as if Belicheck drafted him saying "we need a great back-up behind Bledsoe", he drafted him thinking "maybe we can do something with this guy").

Young was a guy traded for by Walsh because he was impressed by his abilities - but he also had a 1-2 TD-INT ratio at Tampa Bay, hardly the same situation Flynn was in. Similarly, Warner was a guy that was cut by the Packers and played Arena football - and when he was picked up by the Rams, was sent to Amsterdam to develop. They didn't pick him up thinking "we need a great back-up", they saw potential they hoped could translate to the NFL and they wre successful.

Flynn is a totally different situation in that he was brought in to compete for the starter's job, failed to win it because a guy yougner than him was better than him, and now he's stuck here as a good player that's on the bench - there's hardly a comparable situation, almost any time a team has a back-up that's good enough to start for another team, they trade him or let him hit free agency because they're too expensive to keep on/can get more value from a draft pick for them.

In recent years see - Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, Kyle Orton (albeit he was cut rather than traded because the Broncos didn't feel they needed him/he wasn't good enough).


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:43 am 
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Radish, he can hold out. Not show up for anything and force us to find another back up. It's not like he is going to come to all the OTA's, preseason and then sat, I'm not gonna play.

I also believe teams wouldn't hold it against him either based on the circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:54 am 
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RichNhansom wrote:
Radish, he can hold out. Not show up for anything and force us to find another back up. It's not like he is going to come to all the OTA's, preseason and then sat, I'm not gonna play.

I also believe teams wouldn't hold it against him either based on the circumstances.


I think teams would hold it against him to a degree. Holdouts aren't viewed kindly by any teams, though they're understood as part of the business when it comes to players using leverage to secure a new contract.

Here's the thing, though. Flynn has no leverage to hold out. His skillset isn't so irreplaceable that the team will be in dire straits without him. They can give Josh Johnson (or some other vet) his reps and hand that guy the clipboard, all while docking Flynn's pay. And if they bury him on the depth chart, that's going to destroy any bargaining power his agent has should he be cut loose at some point and end up on the market. Instead of being the "team-first backup with starter potential" that lots of teams target in FA, he'll be the "got beat out, sulked, and held out guy." That perception will cost him.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:50 am 
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I don't think Flynn is better than Wilson at this point, but I think he might have been in those first few games. Flynn does have a good quick/short passing game. The offense would have certainly been different. I think Flynn would have taken some sacks, but I also think he would have beat some blitzes from the pocket.

I just like Flynn and don't want him going anywhere until Seattle has a quality backup. Flynn HAS played and he didn't look bad in preseason. There were some drops, but he was generally able to move the offense with a decent pace. I am glad Wilson is the QB and he has certainly earned the job, but having Flynn around does not hurt this team in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 am 
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RichNhansom wrote:
Personally I think Flynn will force either a trade or release. .


I don't think he will force a release and there are a few reasons for it such as $$$$$$

It is a HUGE risk to go for a release. At the end of the day the Seahawks would be fine with him sitting out would save lots of money.......

he may push for a trade which the front office will oblige IF and ONLY IF it is deemed to provide equal or more value to the organization than keeping him on the bench


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:00 am 
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Via Clayton's latest mailbag... remember Clayton was very much in the 'start Flynn' camp at the start of the year...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87368 ... ordinators

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Q: I was wondering what you think are Matt Flynn's prospects for 2013. He was signed by the Seahawks in the offseason to a three-year contract with $10 million in guaranteed money to be the starter, but he's not a starter. Do you see any teams possibly trading for him in the offseaon or if he is released, do you think being benched in favor of rookie Russell Wilson will hurt his value in the open market next year?

John in Naperville, Ill.

A: As with most trades in the NFL, you look at the contract before you look at the player in a trade. Flynn has value, but the Seahawks can't get much for him in a trade. Maybe they can get a conditional sixth or seventh, but very few teams will want to pick up that $6.5 million contract. If he is cut, he'll have a few teams bidding on him.


So there we go. A conditional sixth or seventh sounds about right to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:08 am 
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Disagree but we will see at the end of next year.

Teams are willing to pay $20 million-ish for 3 years for unproven college qb's. If they don't have big money riding on the qb position there is room to pay between $5million to $20 million for the qb position. $6.5 million may be a tad much but it in no way limits many of the teams that will be looking at qbs.

The big upside for a trade is - there is no great qb prospect in the draft. Barkley left $10 million (at least) on the table by not going last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 am 
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mikeak wrote:
Disagree but we will see at the end of next year.

Teams are willing to pay $20 million-ish for 3 years for unproven college qb's. If they don't have big money riding on the qb position there is room to pay between $5million to $20 million for the qb position. $6.5 million may be a tad much but it in no way limits many of the teams that will be looking at qbs.

The big upside for a trade is - there is no great qb prospect in the draft. Barkley left $10 million (at least) on the table by not going last year.


Well, they're willing to pay $20million to the #1 overall pick for four years. And calling a guy like Andrew Luck 'unproven' belittles the amount of talent he was bringing into the league. Ryan Tannehill - the #8 overall pick - signed a $12m deal for four years with a team option for a fifth year. Seattle signed Flynn to his current deal seemingly unchallenged. Did any other team offer him a contract? So a year on, does someone turn around and say... "Yeah, you know, actually we want him after all"?

And for all the teeth gnashing about the QB's in this draft class - for me - Matt Barkley, Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson all have a chance to be solid starters. And I expect one will end up in Kansas City either at #1, #2 or #3 in the next draft. So I'm not sure Barkley cost himself $10m. It's too early to tell. Scouts will remember who coached that USC team this year. Kiffin really did a piss poor job.

We got barely anything for Tarvaris Jackson (7th rounder). Flynn's on a lot more money and despite a lot of people believing he's suddenly going to have this great market... chance are it isn't going to happen. And he'll be on this roster next year backing up Wilson. Unless the Seahawks truly are willing to let him walk for minimal compensation to get 'his shot'.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:15 am 
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themunn wrote:
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You want Tebow, Klein, TJack over Matt Flynn? We already know the coaches prefer Flynn over TJack. So that leaves us with Klein and Tebow. I can't say you are wrong but only 2 teams wanted Tebow. Of those 2 teams in Jacksonville and NY Jets, the Jets won't even play him over a horrible starter. So that tells me atleast 31 teams wouldn't play him over their current starters. Klein isn't available until next year and he will be a rookie. He is a project middle round pick at best. So even if you get a 3rd rounder for Flynn, which is unlikely, you are drafting someone in the same round with no experience and is a project.

Flynn has experience, starter appeal, and his salary isn't that much. Remember he was just about our starter this year, but was beat out by the rookie of the year (potentially) who is leading his team to the playoffs.


You've given examples of backups that were good, but none were players picked up with the idea that "we need a great back-up behind our starter", all 3 were players that were picked up as potential starters in the future (or in Brady's case, probably a potential back-up, it's hardly as if Belicheck drafted him saying "we need a great back-up behind Bledsoe", he drafted him thinking "maybe we can do something with this guy").

Young was a guy traded for by Walsh because he was impressed by his abilities - but he also had a 1-2 TD-INT ratio at Tampa Bay, hardly the same situation Flynn was in. Similarly, Warner was a guy that was cut by the Packers and played Arena football - and when he was picked up by the Rams, was sent to Amsterdam to develop. They didn't pick him up thinking "we need a great back-up", they saw potential they hoped could translate to the NFL and they wre successful.

Flynn is a totally different situation in that he was brought in to compete for the starter's job, failed to win it because a guy yougner than him was better than him, and now he's stuck here as a good player that's on the bench - there's hardly a comparable situation, almost any time a team has a back-up that's good enough to start for another team, they trade him or let him hit free agency because they're too expensive to keep on/can get more value from a draft pick for them.

In recent years see - Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, Kyle Orton (albeit he was cut rather than traded because the Broncos didn't feel they needed him/he wasn't good enough).


In fairness I was replying to a different comment earlier. A comment about good teams don't have good back ups. I just listed some names off the top of my head. I also listed guys like Reich, Hostettler, and Doug Williams. I could add plenty more like Kerry Collins or a Billy Volek. In fact Billy Voleks career path is similar to Flynns. He was brought in to compete with Phillip Rivers at one time yet stayed there for the rest of his career as a quality backup. Volek had some great starts in Tennessee and showed flashes like Flynn did in Green Bay. Sure San Diego could have traded him for a potential 6th or 7th but they liked the insurance Volek gave them. They groomed clip board Jesus and traded their #3 QB for .....well you know the story. Now if you can get a 2nd for Flynn well then I get it. But like I said earlier when I was talking with skater you better have an answer at back up and Klein and Tebow are projects in fact they are similar in that they have 2 of the worst throwing motions and need work on their foot work and. In Kleins case his throwing motion is not only bad but he doesn't step into his throws enough and needs to work on his foot work.

Anyways, I'm kind of done with this topic. But I will add something. Flynn is guaranteed 5.25 million if rotoworld is correct next year. 2 million is guaranteed. So yes you could cut him or ask him to rework his contract but the Seahawks have shown in the past with clip board Jesus they don't mind paying a back up QB to compete with the stater. I think clip board Jesus and TJack both made 4 million a season so the 5.25 is not far off. But hey what do I know I just have facts based on this regimes history. And don't fool yourself thinking Flynn has showed what Schaub or Cassell has. He hasn't even done what Kolb in Philly yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 am 
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This debate about Flynn's value is interesting. But I still don't see what he did last week to do anything to improve his stock. He played adequate in a blowout with backups against a team that had quit 2 qtrs. But some are acting like he came in an warranted all the pre-season hype and Flynnatics calls for him to start. Really?! He had a couple nice plays. But he also had a couple flat out misses. A couple overthrows that Hasselbeck early in the season would've scolded Wilson for. Flynn didn't do anything to make him worth more. Let's get real. His value at this contract like likely a 5th or 6th. A 4th if the right team fell in love. Other than that, we should chill on expecting much.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:14 am 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
hawkfan1975 wrote:
denial permeates this thread.

flynn looked good, threw some very good passes even with a quarter of play in for the first time (on a wide birth score). sharp passes complete and some bobbled by wrs.
*add: and I still say he beats phx and stl away games prior.

I think given the same games he throws better than RW, but ....we're going with RW for the youth and wheels (I can live with that, 3 games now and I like what RWs doing and there's more to come).

we may be able to retain flynn but I doubt it highly.


there's something wrong with you.


didn't you try this posts earlier? the witty, one-off in an attempt to seem the know it all. it didn't work then, what makes you think another try will fare better?

look, if flynn bashing makes you feel safe then great, but how about limiting repeats and letting others talk on this forum as well?
ok with you?


I don't bash Flynn. And there's still something wrong with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Well whatever. Anyway, AZ can really use and utilize Flynn if we don't retain. I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:51 pm 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
Well whatever. Anyway, AZ can really use and utilize Flynn if we don't retain. I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen.

This is not Flynn bashing, but true: If our staff traded Flynn to Seattle, it would mean they think he sucks. He will not be traded in division if they think he is any good. And he is here because they think he has some talent. So, no trade to Arizona will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Flynn...
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:52 pm 
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I think Arizona has another date with a terrible QB lined up for next year already.

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