Is Russell having the best "young" debut ever for Hawks?

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  • So, I'm wondering if in the ol'timers opinion if Wilson's out playing other young QB's who started with Hawks? Not necessarily rookie years, just young QB's who cracked the NFL in Seattle.

    All I can say is he's surpassed; Hass's debuts as a Hawk. And, RW's probably about one more completion from being better than Mirer in his rookie year.

    I'm too young to know if Wilsons playing better than Zorn or Krieg did in their first years? I know Radish, Absolute, and Lymon can speak to those guys.

    Not really stats, but eyeball test.
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  • In my memory without a doubt he is if we're only talking QB's, although I dont really remember Mudbone or Zorn as young players either.

    If we're talking Seahawks as a whole i'd take Curt Warner (rushed for almost 1500 yards as a rookie) or Lofa Tatupu as the best young first year players.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:In my memory without a doubt he is if we're only talking QB's, although I dont really remember Mudbone or Zorn as young players either.

    If we're talking Seahawks as a whole i'd take Curt Warner (rushed for almost 1500 yards as a rookie) or Lofa Tatupu as the best young first year players.


    Well, by the rookie year measurement, its obviously Pork Chop Womack. Not even close, your dumb! So Pork Chop!
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  • Yes. I saw all of them since the franchise started. Seattle had some really good QB 's as well. RW is even better than Mirer in his 1st year
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  • Aren't we forgetting about David Greene?

    I'll wait to make this judgment until I see a full 16 from RW. Rick Mirer was pretty impressive on a worse team through the first ten games as well.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:In my memory without a doubt he is if we're only talking QB's, although I dont really remember Mudbone or Zorn as young players either.

    If we're talking Seahawks as a whole i'd take Curt Warner (rushed for almost 1500 yards as a rookie) or Lofa Tatupu as the best young first year players.



    Season's not over yet, we'll see if Russell Wilson can break the record for most rookie TD passes. If he does, would that sway your opinion? He's still improving, that's the scary thing!
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  • brian bosworth has set the bar, i'm afraid this shall never be challenged... :pukeface:
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  • I was 11 years old when the Seahawks entered the league in the fall of 76'. I attended every home game until 1989, and I have watched every single Seahawks game that has ever been played, if not in person, then on TV. Without a doubt, Wilson is having a special year for a rookie, at any position. Of all the players at any position only a few come to mind that stand out. Curt Warner had an amazing rookie campaign, and one of the best overall rookie performances ever for the Seahawks....but most overlooked was Joey Gallaway. I think he racked up like 1500 all-purpose yards....or something like that.

    Obviously it is hard to place Wilson in this rookie class list just yet, as the season still need to unfold. But he is clearly on track to have a historic rookie campaign as a QB....not only for the Seahawks, but for the entire NFL and its hundred plus year history. I believe in the end, Wilson's rookie year won't be remembered for his yardage thrown, but rather by his efficiency. The guy is just a gamer.
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  • As far as the eye test, and perhaps time has soften my recollection, Jimmy did a lot with NFL cast-offs and rookies. Like Russell seems to be doing, he improved each year until his injury.

    He reminds me the most of what Wilson would probably look like if our OL was truly as bad as some of us think, running for his life, passing on the run and throwing in some designed QB runs.

    On a different note, it always brings a smile to my face when we complain about our OL, that first line was truly awful probably ranking just behind the ‘92/’93 ones. Until you watched those guys you don’t know what bad is…

    The thing Russell has done that no other young Seahawk QB had been able to do is eliminate INTs; so far anyway…
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  • If Seahawks.Net existed in 1993, we'd all be giddy about our great young rookie QB and how bright the future is, and we have a great RB and top 10 defense.

    I'm just saying -- enjoy the moment, but things can change in a hurry.
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  • FidelisHawk wrote:As far as the eye test, and perhaps time has soften my recollection, Jimmy did a lot with NFL cast-offs and rookies. Like Russell seems to be doing, he improved each year until his injury.

    He reminds me the most of what Wilson would probably look like if our OL was truly as bad as some of us think, running for his life, passing on the run and throwing in some designed QB runs.

    On a different note, it always brings a smile to my face when we complain about our OL, that first line was truly awful probably ranking just behind the ‘92/’93 ones. Until you watched those guys you don’t know what bad is…

    The thing Russell has done that no other young Seahawk QB had been able to do is eliminate INTs; so far anyway…


    I love the eliminating INT's thing. I swear, no throw over the past 2 games has even come CLOSE to being intercepted. If he polishes up those fumble problems (haven't happened much at all) then he will be a stud, no doubt.
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  • Hawkstorian wrote:If Seahawks.Net existed in 1993, we'd all be giddy about our great young rookie QB and how bright the future is, and we have a great RB and top 10 defense.

    I'm just saying -- enjoy the moment, but things can change in a hurry.


    Yup.
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  • he already is a stud, those sack fumbles are going to happen, to a rookie or elite vet...it's just the defense making a good play.. going to happen...
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  • It is surprising how much this team resembles the feeling of that ’93 team...

    I’d only take exception to the top ten defense. Undeterred by the fact they had an Allpro DB in Eugene Robinson (who led the team in INTs w/9) and having arguably the best DT in the league, their “bend don’t break” defense broke most of the times and gave up a gazillion yds. To call their corners average would be generous at best IMHO. Then when teams got into the red zone they seemed to forget how to tackle RBs or QBs IIRC. I’m afraid you’d have to search long and hard to find a defensive stat in the top ten.

    This defense is head and shoulders above the ’93 one…

    But your point is well taken the anticipation and excitement is strangely similar…
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  • The 1993 defense was top 10 in the league in four different categories, but, it was the start of the decline on defense when you compare it to the 91 and 92 units. the 91 defense didn't allow a 300 yard passer or a 100 yard rusher, in fact, until Tim Rosenbach went off on the Hawks late in the 1993 season, the Hawks hadn't allowed a 300 yard passer since the last game of the 1989 season.

    Looking back, the first half of the 1993 season was fools gold in that it was a young team winning a lot of close games against bad teams, this years Hawks have beaten some damn good squads so far.

    Correction, I forgot about Warren Moon earlier in the 93 season chucking the ball 50+ times for 350 and change.
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  • pehawk wrote:So, I'm wondering if in the ol'timers opinion if Wilson's out playing other young QB's who started with Hawks? Not necessarily rookie years, just young QB's who cracked the NFL in Seattle.

    All I can say is he's surpassed; Hass's debuts as a Hawk. And, RW's probably about one more completion from being better than Mirer in his rookie year.

    I'm too young to know if Wilsons playing better than Zorn or Krieg did in their first years? I know Radish, Absolute, and Lymon can speak to those guys.

    Not really stats, but eyeball test.


    Zorn was pretty darn fun to watch. He would move even more than Russ and throw the ball off of his back foot for deep strikes. The fact that he was left-handed was also fun. The thing with those days is you didn't expect much, so even the average plays seemed great. I think we went 9-7 like 3 years in and that was amazing and Zorn was the man. Then he broke his leg and that was that.

    As far as young players go... I think the other young player that had this huge of an impact on the team was Curt Warner. From play one watching #28 was like watching something magical happen in front of our eyes. He was a man among boys and clearly was the best player to ever suit up on the offensive side of the ball for the Hawks. Having both he and Kenny Easley on the team at the same time made us all sit back and say, "Wait a second.... we're on to something here... and it's VERY good." Then the team went into Miami on New Year's Eve and Curt scored that TD in the rain to win and everything was right with the world. In that game Krieg was off, Largent didn't catch a ball until quite late in the game and was essentially a non-factor. It was Green, Bryant, Nash, Easley, and Curt and the OL that carried the team that day. It was trench warfare in probably the most hostile road stadium in the country.

    Curt broke his leg in I believe week 1 and was never quite the same, but was still great (figure that one out) and Kenny's kidneys died. Otherwise, things would have been a lot different. Curt Warner brought that excitement and enthusiasm to the team that a lot of you young guys are feeling right now for Russell. When Curt had the ball in his hands there was a chance he'd score... every single time. He was that dynamic. For those who watch Adrian Peterson now.... Curt was that kind of player, only I think he was a better receiver and much tougher. His injury was a severe break to the leg, he wasn't a guy that was always having issues like hamstrings and the like. He got one fluke injury in his career and that was that. But he still played on. Curt was faster than most wide receivers and for me personally he was the first RB I ever saw split out as a WR in college and burn a DB over the top for a long TD. When the Hawks drafted him I was giving my dad high fives for about 10 minutes because I knew he was going to change the culture of the whole team. I felt the same way the day they drafted RW. So I think things are going to continue to improve. Let's just keep him healthy eh?
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  • It is very reminiscent of Mirer's start. I think Mirer's was actually seen as more of a big deal around the league because of the rookie records and because he had been expected to be a big franchise guy. So as far as QB's I think in '93 people might have really thought we'd found our guy. I hope we have now, and I think with Russell's work ethic it will prove out.

    Frankly I don't really expect Wilson to become a record braking guy. I think he will develop into a fine franchise QB and win us many games, but as far as a monster Peyton Manning type year, I don't think we'll ever see that. I do think we will see much success. I think other than his love of and commitment to the game, the best thing about Wilson is that he doesn't make a lot of big mistakes, and when he does he's the kind of guy who will learn from it and step up his game.
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  • apparently you're just not seeing how special this kid really is.. besides the natural athletic abilities, he just has the it factor, can't coach it into you, you're just born with it... montana, staubauch,manning,elway, marino .... they all have that it factor, teams literally fear playing them... RW will have this effect on teams as well.. and put up the numbers to back it up.... can't explain what "it" is , i just see it on the field when he's playing.
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  • seahawk2k wrote:The 1993 defense was top 10 in the league in four different categories, but, it was the start of the decline on defense when you compare it to the 91 and 92 units. the 91 defense didn't allow a 300 yard passer or a 100 yard rusher, in fact, until Tim Rosenbach went off on the Hawks late in the 1993 season, the Hawks hadn't allowed a 300 yard passer since the last game of the 1989 season.

    Looking back, the first half of the 1993 season was fools gold in that it was a young team winning a lot of close games against bad teams, this years Hawks have beaten some damn good squads so far.

    Correction, I forgot about Warren Moon earlier in the 93 season chucking the ball 50+ times for 350 and change.


    LOL when I said they had NO top ten stats it was a bit tongue in cheek, but as I recall the season (and granted it is a bit hazy) when the stopped the pass they couldn’t stop the run, and vice versa. When they had good defensive games they couldn’t score. It was a frustrating season in that they seldom seemed to put together a complete game on both sides of the ball.

    That said I’m sure this season will be remembered more fondly…
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  • Admittedly, I was 8 at the beginning of the '93 season, so my memory is spotty at best ... but how are people even thinking of drawing comparisons between Mirer's rookie year and Wilson's?

    Mirer finished with a 56% completion percentage, only 12 TDs with 17 ints. Russell has a 62% compleition percentage with 15 TDs, 8 INTs. Mirer's TD% was 2.5. Russell's is something like 5.4 or 5.6 or 5.9%. Mirer's Y/A was 5.8. Russell's is 7.2. Mirer was sacked 47 times. Russell has been sacked like 17? Maybe less?

    There is no comparison. Russell Wilson is great. Mirer was a bust.
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  • Fox0r wrote:Admittedly, I was 8 at the beginning of the '93 season, so my memory is spotty at best ... but how are people even thinking of drawing comparisons between Mirer's rookie year and Wilson's?

    Mirer finished with a 56% completion percentage, only 12 TDs with 17 ints. Russell has a 62% compleition percentage with 15 TDs, 8 INTs. Mirer's TD% was 2.5. Russell's is something like 5.4 or 5.6 or 5.9%. Mirer's Y/A was 5.8. Russell's is 7.2. Mirer was sacked 47 times. Russell has been sacked like 17? Maybe less?

    There is no comparison. Russell Wilson is great. Mirer was a bust.


    You're really overstatting here. People compared them because a team that totally sucked and couldn't get a win tripled their win total their first year with Mirer at the helm, and he looked the part. He didn't have a ton of skill players around him. He was a scrambler and a playmaker himself and made things happen. We all didn't sit there each week and pull a Billy Beane and analyze statistics to death. We weren't playing fantasy football. We were watching a team that hadn't had a QB since Krieg walked and now all of a sudden we had a QB who as a rookie willed us to a lot more victories than we had any business getting, and felt that the next year we were probably going to get into the playoffs. Him "only getting blah blah % and blah blah ratio to ratio" wasn't part of the conversation. It was more, "Hey, looks like we finally have a kid that can get the ball into the damned endzone. That's cool. About time."
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  • SharkHawk wrote:
    Fox0r wrote:Admittedly, I was 8 at the beginning of the '93 season, so my memory is spotty at best ... but how are people even thinking of drawing comparisons between Mirer's rookie year and Wilson's?

    Mirer finished with a 56% completion percentage, only 12 TDs with 17 ints. Russell has a 62% compleition percentage with 15 TDs, 8 INTs. Mirer's TD% was 2.5. Russell's is something like 5.4 or 5.6 or 5.9%. Mirer's Y/A was 5.8. Russell's is 7.2. Mirer was sacked 47 times. Russell has been sacked like 17? Maybe less?

    There is no comparison. Russell Wilson is great. Mirer was a bust.


    You're really overstatting here. People compared them because a team that totally sucked and couldn't get a win tripled their win total their first year with Mirer at the helm, and he looked the part. He didn't have a ton of skill players around him. He was a scrambler and a playmaker himself and made things happen. We all didn't sit there each week and pull a Billy Beane and analyze statistics to death. We weren't playing fantasy football. We were watching a team that hadn't had a QB since Krieg walked and now all of a sudden we had a QB who as a rookie willed us to a lot more victories than we had any business getting, and felt that the next year we were probably going to get into the playoffs. Him "only getting blah blah % and blah blah ratio to ratio" wasn't part of the conversation. It was more, "Hey, looks like we finally have a kid that can get the ball into the damned endzone. That's cool. About time."


    Perhaps that is because both the game and it's fanbase have evolved since then?

    I completely understand what you are saying, though. In the end, we're all fans and we all want the same thing. Part of the reasoning back then probably had to do more with the fact that the QBs before Mirer were equally as terrible? Wasn't McGwire and Stouffer before him?
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  • Fox0r wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:
    Fox0r wrote:Admittedly, I was 8 at the beginning of the '93 season, so my memory is spotty at best ... but how are people even thinking of drawing comparisons between Mirer's rookie year and Wilson's?

    Mirer finished with a 56% completion percentage, only 12 TDs with 17 ints. Russell has a 62% compleition percentage with 15 TDs, 8 INTs. Mirer's TD% was 2.5. Russell's is something like 5.4 or 5.6 or 5.9%. Mirer's Y/A was 5.8. Russell's is 7.2. Mirer was sacked 47 times. Russell has been sacked like 17? Maybe less?

    There is no comparison. Russell Wilson is great. Mirer was a bust.


    You're really overstatting here. People compared them because a team that totally sucked and couldn't get a win tripled their win total their first year with Mirer at the helm, and he looked the part. He didn't have a ton of skill players around him. He was a scrambler and a playmaker himself and made things happen. We all didn't sit there each week and pull a Billy Beane and analyze statistics to death. We weren't playing fantasy football. We were watching a team that hadn't had a QB since Krieg walked and now all of a sudden we had a QB who as a rookie willed us to a lot more victories than we had any business getting, and felt that the next year we were probably going to get into the playoffs. Him "only getting blah blah % and blah blah ratio to ratio" wasn't part of the conversation. It was more, "Hey, looks like we finally have a kid that can get the ball into the damned endzone. That's cool. About time."


    Perhaps that is because both the game and it's fanbase have evolved since then?

    I completely understand what you are saying, though. In the end, we're all fans and we all want the same thing. Part of the reasoning back then probably had to do more with the fact that the QBs before Mirer were equally as terrible? Wasn't McGwire and Stouffer before him?


    No not really. OK, perhaps there is some evolution of the game, but the real difference is right in front of you! EVERYONE has access to the internet now, usually with multiple devices and one that travels with them in their pocket or purse everywhere they go! It's the fact that as a society we are all so plugged in to e-communication that is different. In '93 it wasn't nearly as easy to access sites like this or Pro Football Reference.com so that in itself is gonna be a huge difference.

    The fans are same as ever, it's just that we have so much freer access to technology that keeps us in touch with the game. Even a novice has access to wealths of info and statistics and can therefore fancy themselves an expert on the game, regardless of their actual knowledge level. I don't think the fans have evolved at all, it's our lifestyles have changed due to technology.
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  • Well... part of what you're missing is that stat availability wasn't what it is now either. We'd look at the Sporting News once a week and glance at the stats. Guys played rotisserie baseball and such. There were still statheads. But the game was much different. DB's were allowed to do more. QB's didn't have nearly the level of protection they do now. So 56% wasn't bad. Compare Mirer's rookie year those of guys like Aikman who started around the same time. That's who I was comparing him to and he was doing quite well. As far as we all knew, Aikman was the gold standard for QB's on the rise and Rick started out with an even better rookie year in many ways. So... no, we weren't really comparing him to Stouffer and McGwire so much. Stouffer was a guy that was picked up in a trade as he had no interest in signing with the Cards. McGwire was a mid-first rounder. Not many aside from Behring expected much. I was comparing Mirer to other young QB's. Aikman, Bledsoe, even Steve Young was hitting his prime then, but had gone through some rough years in Tampa. All rookie QB's struggle, and he did too, but what you look for is flashes.... not line by line stat comparisons, which aren't exactly available on a minute to minute basis in 1993. It would have been 1995 before I had really steady 24/7 access to statistics on an up to the second basis.

    If you evaluated guys at the end of the year (which was more the case) then Mirer outplayed a lot of the guys who had come into the league in that era that were supposed to be pretty good QB's and were in their first, second, or third years. Besides, when a team is hurting as bad as we were, the only stat that really mattered was wins, and Mirer seemed like a winner, until he got the crap knocked out of him and Larry Keenan took over the play-calling duties. He fell hard and fast, but he played quite well for a rookie, especially considering how bad we sucked prior to him playing. The starter the previous year for most of the season was Stan Gelbaugh and he was a WLAF player. He threw a nice deep ball, but he was no NFL QB by any stretch. Mirer was an NFL QB who took a turn and lost his confidence, didn't develop and never grew into the QB he should have. His rookie stats were NOT bad compared to the majority of rookies. Look at Elway, Favre, Aikman, etc. and you'll see he was about par for the course.
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  • Fox0r wrote:Admittedly, I was 8 at the beginning of the '93 season, so my memory is spotty at best ... but how are people even thinking of drawing comparisons between Mirer's rookie year and Wilson's?

    Mirer finished with a 56% completion percentage, only 12 TDs with 17 ints. Russell has a 62% compleition percentage with 15 TDs, 8 INTs. Mirer's TD% was 2.5. Russell's is something like 5.4 or 5.6 or 5.9%. Mirer's Y/A was 5.8. Russell's is 7.2. Mirer was sacked 47 times. Russell has been sacked like 17? Maybe less?

    There is no comparison. Russell Wilson is great. Mirer was a bust.


    To really appreciate Mirer’s rookie season you have to look back at the ’92 season to see just how bad they were offensively.

    There is truly no comparison between the team Rick was drafted onto and the one Russell plays for. Add in the multitude of sacks and it’s remarkable he played as well as he did.

    I suppose the reason those of us that remember that team are comparing the two is because of the promise of even better things yet to come, and believe me the anticipation for the next season/seasons was equal if not more palatable than it is now.

    Alas it was just a “Mirerage” and us old-timers are hoping and praying things will be different this time around…
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  • God I remember when John Friez took over for him I hallelujah'd big time!

    I guess I am younger than you SharkHawk because I always liked to get my stats off trading cards. I don't buy them anymore but I did well into my 20's. Always loved the hoping to get this or that player's card. Who knows if I am financially better off again soon I may just start collecting again.
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  • Sharkhawk is spot on. This discussion has nothing to do with objectively analyzing Mirer vs. Wilson.

    It has to do with feeling like the team is on the upswing with a young QB. In 1993 we felt that way --- but each year thereafter it fell apart to the point where were happy to see John Friesz.

    No one is saying the two situations are exactly the same ... the point is that getting excited about young talent is a great feeling, but there are many potential hazards down the road.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:So, I'm wondering if in the ol'timers opinion if Wilson's out playing other young QB's who started with Hawks? Not necessarily rookie years, just young QB's who cracked the NFL in Seattle.

    All I can say is he's surpassed; Hass's debuts as a Hawk. And, RW's probably about one more completion from being better than Mirer in his rookie year.

    I'm too young to know if Wilsons playing better than Zorn or Krieg did in their first years? I know Radish, Absolute, and Lymon can speak to those guys.

    Not really stats, but eyeball test.


    Zorn was pretty darn fun to watch. He would move even more than Russ and throw the ball off of his back foot for deep strikes. The fact that he was left-handed was also fun. The thing with those days is you didn't expect much, so even the average plays seemed great. I think we went 9-7 like 3 years in and that was amazing and Zorn was the man. Then he broke his leg and that was that.

    As far as young players go... I think the other young player that had this huge of an impact on the team was Curt Warner. From play one watching #28 was like watching something magical happen in front of our eyes. He was a man among boys and clearly was the best player to ever suit up on the offensive side of the ball for the Hawks. Having both he and Kenny Easley on the team at the same time made us all sit back and say, "Wait a second.... we're on to something here... and it's VERY good." Then the team went into Miami on New Year's Eve and Curt scored that TD in the rain to win and everything was right with the world. In that game Krieg was off, Largent didn't catch a ball until quite late in the game and was essentially a non-factor. It was Green, Bryant, Nash, Easley, and Curt and the OL that carried the team that day. It was trench warfare in probably the most hostile road stadium in the country.

    Curt broke his leg in I believe week 1 and was never quite the same, but was still great (figure that one out) and Kenny's kidneys died. Otherwise, things would have been a lot different. Curt Warner brought that excitement and enthusiasm to the team that a lot of you young guys are feeling right now for Russell. When Curt had the ball in his hands there was a chance he'd score... every single time. He was that dynamic. For those who watch Adrian Peterson now.... Curt was that kind of player, only I think he was a better receiver and much tougher. His injury was a severe break to the leg, he wasn't a guy that was always having issues like hamstrings and the like. He got one fluke injury in his career and that was that. But he still played on. Curt was faster than most wide receivers and for me personally he was the first RB I ever saw split out as a WR in college and burn a DB over the top for a long TD. When the Hawks drafted him I was giving my dad high fives for about 10 minutes because I knew he was going to change the culture of the whole team. I felt the same way the day they drafted RW. So I think things are going to continue to improve. Let's just keep him healthy eh?

    Pretty much sums it up. Zorn and Warner are the tops. By the time this season ends, we'll know if Wilson even belongs in the same conversation with them.
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  • Pretty good for a midget!

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    Thanks again DynoHawk and other contributors, just got a good laugh once again!

    God that was a great thread!
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  • Hawkstorian wrote:Sharkhawk is spot on. This discussion has nothing to do with objectively analyzing Mirer vs. Wilson.

    It has to do with feeling like the team is on the upswing with a young QB. In 1993 we felt that way --- but each year thereafter it fell apart to the point where were happy to see John Friesz.

    No one is saying the two situations are exactly the same ... the point is that getting excited about young talent is a great feeling, but there are many potential hazards down the road.


    Absolutely, those of us that have lived and died with the Seahawks since conception have seen it all (well almost all, there’s one thing we haven’t seen yet :P ), Jim Zorn getting us oh so close in ’78, Dave Krieg barely losing to the hated Raiders in the play-offs after beating them twice before, getting blown out to Miami with maybe the best team we ever fielded.

    Living through 2 and 4 win seasons always anticipating better things to come, just a draft pick or an injured player away. Coach changes, owner changes all will eventually make things better.

    So if we watch these days with a little skeptical anticipation cut us a some slack we’ve seen this before…

    Or at least we think we have… :twisted:
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  • Like I don't toot my horn enough, but I'm digging this thread. Thank you!

    I mean that.
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  • I don't know if he was "better", but Dave Krieg had a really good start. His first few seasons, he had a playoff win and a Pro-Bowl appearance and had thrown for 3000+ yards with Curt Warner injured.

    My parents had season tickets back in the mid-80's, so I got to witness Dave Krieg's early years in person. He was really exciting to watch and root for. He also had that same "little guy" underdog thing going for him. Came from a small school, everyone thought he would suck, was a smallish QB, and really outlived the expectations. I'll never forget watching him beat up on the hated Raiders and Broncos at home those first few seasons. Everyone was really excited about him. It was pretty similar to the feeling now about Russell Wilson.
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  • HansGruber wrote:I don't know if he was "better", but Dave Krieg had a really good start. His first few seasons, he had a playoff win and a Pro-Bowl appearance and had thrown for 3000+ yards with Curt Warner injured.

    My parents had season tickets back in the mid-80's, so I got to witness Dave Krieg's early years in person. He was really exciting to watch and root for. He also had that same "little guy" underdog thing going for him. Came from a small school, everyone thought he would suck, was a smallish QB, and really outlived the expectations. I'll never forget watching him beat up on the hated Raiders and Broncos at home those first few seasons. Everyone was really excited about him. It was pretty similar to the feeling now about Russell Wilson.


    Dave Krieg has HOF numbers (cept the fumbles), but never had the victory or recognition to ever get in sniffing distance.

    Getting sacked 7 times and yet still beating the Chefs are Arrowhead is no small feat. The man is a Seahawk legent IMHO, and those of us who got to see him play will always be fans of Dave Krieg.
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  • I'd have to agree with a few here: Zorn was probably better due to individual effort. He was literally running for his life every play, and you felt for the guy, but damn was it fun to watch. Also remember, the rules favor the pass game and Wilson now, over Zorn then.

    Wilson will probably end up being better due to pure consistency, games won, and general overall poise. I don't know how Zorn could be poised when there was always a big DL in his lap and they were allowed to kill the QB back then. You can barely touch them now. Wilson is also more athletic and would run for positive yardage better than Zorn could.

    I remember that 91 defense well, and we were very good. The best the Seahawks have ever had. I think this defense could be better, and still has room to grow.
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  • hawker84 wrote:brian bosworth has set the bar, i'm afraid this shall never be challenged... :pukeface:


    Yup, he made Bo Jackson look like a three toed sloth, he..uhh..mmm...never mind :34853_doh:
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  • SeAhAwKeR4life wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:I don't know if he was "better", but Dave Krieg had a really good start. His first few seasons, he had a playoff win and a Pro-Bowl appearance and had thrown for 3000+ yards with Curt Warner injured.

    My parents had season tickets back in the mid-80's, so I got to witness Dave Krieg's early years in person. He was really exciting to watch and root for. He also had that same "little guy" underdog thing going for him. Came from a small school, everyone thought he would suck, was a smallish QB, and really outlived the expectations. I'll never forget watching him beat up on the hated Raiders and Broncos at home those first few seasons. Everyone was really excited about him. It was pretty similar to the feeling now about Russell Wilson.


    Dave Krieg has HOF numbers (cept the fumbles), but never had the victory or recognition to ever get in sniffing distance.

    Getting sacked 7 times and yet still beating the Chefs are Arrowhead is no small feat. The man is a Seahawk legent IMHO, and those of us who got to see him play will always be fans of Dave Krieg.

    Have to agree with the Dave Krieg accolades, because he came from a NOWHERE college out in the dingtoolies, that's not even in existence anymore, and was able to fight off replacements, because of his warrior mentality.
    If Wilson can play with that kind of fightback intensity?, he'll be a HOFer.
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  • I have seen them all, in their first years as Hawk QB's and while I was only 10 years old for Zorn, he had my attention. I would say that Wilson is by far the best overall first year experience we have had.

    Zorn was exciting, but Wilson just looks like a veteran. He learns from his mistakes in that I cannot see a pattern of him repeating things that are negatives.

    Heck, half of the guy's interceptions are WR tips or balls thrown really deep as Hail Mary type plays.

    Krieg was a guy that had a heart like Wilson's and he tried just too hard, never gave up but didn't have the physical skills. Zorn had Largent which made up for a lot, Mirer was a candy ass who mastered the dump off or short pass (well Krieg was too in that he would throw a 5 yard pass to JL Williams who would proceed to run it for 50 giving the stats)

    Danny Mack... Lol!!! I remember one year that Knox felt the pressure to start him, even when he should not have. I want to say that he handed the ball off nearly every time on the one drive Knox let him start. They scored a TD and Knox STILL pulled him.

    Wilson has so far been the single most effective QB as a rookie to start. No question about it. Zorn, Krieg, Mirer and Danny Mack in that order ranked behind him. Zorn might have been better, I am just going on what I remember as a kid that was raised as a Steeler fan when my mom told me "now we have a team that is local to root for" and I was quickly attracted to the Blue, Green and silver unis. It was love at first sight.
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  • I was going to mention Krieg, but the OP was about great first year starts. The thing about Dave was he backed-up Zorn rather successfully when he was injured. By the end of the ’82 strike season Jack Patera had been fired and GM Mike McCormack had taken over as coach, ushering in the golden years of the 80s when football minds ran the team. Mike had for all tends and purposes made Krieg his starting QB.

    After hiring Chuck Knox as head coach for the following year, Knox announced “Great football players make football plays and Zorn is a great football player” and made him his starter once again. This started a firestorm of debate among fans on who should start the wily old veteran or the gun slinging back-up that masterminded the comeback win against the hated Broncos at the end of the previous season.
    Believe me when I tell you these round table debates in the bars were just as spirited and fiery as any we have now over Wilson and Flynn. But Chuck stuck to his guns and Jimmy went on to try to capture the magic of bygone years.

    Alas age, injuries, and scheme had robbed Zorn of his most potent weapon, his legs, not unlike the Seahawks of today Ground Chuck wanted to establish the run, then use play action pass to throw deep. This certainly wasn’t Jim’s forte; he was a much better QB outside the pocket or on the run. So after a mediocre 4-3 start and a truly bad game against the Raiders (for a win though) Knox was forced to start “Hambone” who went on to lead the Hawks to their first and most improbable play-off run ever to be seen in the Pacific Northwest.

    Of course the debated didn’t stop there despite leading the Seahawks deep into their first play-off appearance the season before. Dave’s, soon to be famous, propensity to fumble, an inability to score in the second half of a New England game, and a truly bad game against the Raiders had fans calling for his head, even though Zorn did come in that game and play just as poorly and Krieg had compiled a 4-2 record.

    The debate was hot and heavy for awhile (well a short while)as Krieg went on a eight game winning streak, fumbles, INTs and all, leading them to their second play-off run only to have their hopes destroyed in Miami.

    Jim Zorn , the face of the Seahawks, was sent packing the next year to start his vagabond tour of the NFL and CFL teams and Dave Krieg went on to throw his way into miracle wins and fumble his way into heartbreaking loses, all in all having a great career filling the record books here and there.

    So to the fan that didn’t live through the Krieg years and simply scanned his stats, they would naturally come away thinking he was Seattle’s greatest QB and perhaps he was. A scrapper that could win a game in the fourth quarter or just as easily lose one with an untimely fumble, never as good as the great QBs of his era and not as bad as most others, the fans for some reason never held him with the reverence they did with Jimmy.

    In hindsight I suppose the fans never knew what they had till it was gone since the Seahawks tried, and for the most part failed, to find another leader like Dave despite his warts. It took another decade, three coaches, and a new owner to finally have another Allpro QB (with my apologies to Warren Moon, but a real Seahawk QB).

    And that’s how this one fan remembers the Dave Krieg years and why sadly he probably wouldn’t make this list…
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  • Krieg was very under appreciated here. Very.
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  • pehawk wrote:Krieg was very under appreciated here. Very.


    True, so true, I remember the year they had three million dollar QBs and in their infinite wisdom traded the best one away. Ah the Bering years…

    We could wrap them all up and throw them away without even miss them…

    Unless you’re a big fan of dark comedies… :roll:
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  • Okay, how about a different approach, while it’s harder to analyze a defensive player, without the eye test they just don’t “wow” you or show their worth with stats. But pass the eye test Kenny Easley did in spades!

    In1980 our Seahawks could score points, they had a prolific young QB and RB that the year before had approached a 1000 yds (well only 775 yds in 15 games but was a threat nonetheless). Sherman Smith was injured that year, limited to 3 game and was a major factor in the Seahawks finishing that season at 4-12. To give you a reference point our beloved Seahawks had been giving up over 350 points on defense since their conception, in ’80 they gave up over 400 points, the most since their first year.

    This set up the ’81 draft, clearly the Hawks need a defensive stopgap and as luck would have it two of the very best safeties happened to be in that draft. Forever linked to Ronnie Lott because they were cross town rivals, Lott at USC and Easley at UCLA, both top ten draft picks, and prolific DBs, some would say the Seahawks ended up with the second best; but not the fans that got to watch Kenny play.

    From his first year Kenny was a hit with fans, as big as his snot-slobbering hits on the field. The Seahawks had an enforcer and the fans loved him. Kenny was Kam Chancellor with Earl Thomas’ ball hawking skills. His first year he started 14 games intercepted three passes for 155 yds, one he ran back for 82 yds for a TD setting the table for a blow out win against Cleveland the last game of that season. More important his presentence freed up fellow FS John Harris to intercept 10 passes.

    In his first year he helped cut other teams scoring by a mire 20 point, but by his second they’d cut it by over 250 points and by the third teams were game planning to move Kenny out of the area they wanted to throw to. He roamed the middle of the field eliminating or decleating TE’s and WR’s with equal impunity.

    Some would say he single handedly turned a Seahawk defensive back field that was as soft as milk toast into one of the most feared in the NFL. A five time Probowler in his too short seven year career, he lead the NFL in INTs in ’85, amassed 32 for his career, and even ran back punts when needed in four of his Probowl years.

    It was a sad day indeed that fateful day Kenny Easley was traded/retired. My friends and fellow Seahawk fans Kam is a Probowler and a fine SS in his own right, but he’s no Kenny Easley. For his impact (no pun intended) and being the face of the defense for seven years I suggest Kenny to this list.

    Any other takers?
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  • FidelisHawk wrote:Okay, how about a different approach, while it’s harder to analyze a defensive player, without the eye test they just don’t “wow” you or show their worth with stats. But pass the eye test Kenny Easley did in spades!

    In1980 our Seahawks could score points, they had a prolific young QB and RB that the year before had approached a 1000 yds (well only 775 yds in 15 games but was a threat nonetheless). Sherman Smith was injured that year, limited to 3 game and was a major factor in the Seahawks finishing that season at 4-12. To give you a reference point our beloved Seahawks had been giving up over 350 points on defense since their conception, in ’80 they gave up over 400 points, the most since their first year.

    This set up the ’81 draft, clearly the Hawks need a defensive stopgap and as luck would have it two of the very best safeties happened to be in that draft. Forever linked to Ronnie Lott because they were cross town rivals, Lott at USC and Easley at UCLA, both top ten draft picks, and prolific DBs, some would say the Seahawks ended up with the second best; but not the fans that got to watch Kenny play.

    From his first year Kenny was a hit with fans, as big as his snot-slobbering hits on the field. The Seahawks had an enforcer and the fans loved him. Kenny was Kam Chancellor with Earl Thomas’ ball hawking skills. His first year he started 14 games intercepted three passes for 155 yds, one he ran back for 82 yds for a TD setting the table for a blow out win against Cleveland the last game of that season. More important his presentence freed up fellow FS John Harris to intercept 10 passes.

    In his first year he helped cut other teams scoring by a mire 20 point, but by his second they’d cut it by over 250 points and by the third teams were game planning to move Kenny out of the area they wanted to throw to. He roamed the middle of the field eliminating or decleating TE’s and WR’s with equal impunity.

    Some would say he single handedly turned a Seahawk defensive back field that was as soft as milk toast into one of the most feared in the NFL. A five time Probowler in his too short seven year career, he lead the NFL in INTs in ’85, amassed 32 for his career, and even ran back punts when needed in four of his Probowl years.

    It was a sad day indeed that fateful day Kenny Easley was traded/retired. My friends and fellow Seahawk fans Kam is a Probowler and a fine SS in his own right, but he’s no Kenny Easley. For his impact (no pun intended) and being the face of the defense for seven years I suggest Kenny to this list.

    Any other takers?


    Agree 100%!
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  • For QBs only or all rookies?

    I would say that Lofa Tatutpu had the best debut season for any rookie. Leading the defense on a superbowl team is pretty damned amazing. We will always owe him greatly for that
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  • pehawk wrote:Krieg was very under appreciated here. Very.


    Indeed, losing him cost us at least 3 winning seasons. If he would have been the QB of that 1992 team (when that genius combo of Flores and Behring let him go in favor of Stouffer) who knows how that would have worked out. QB play DESTROYED the Hawks that year and it would have saved us the Mirer era. Krieg was a gamer and he was ousted for a single 7-9 season that was a heartbreaker in 91.

    He had a lot of help from JL Williams, but that WORKED. With an up and coming Warren as RB and that exceptional defense it would have been fun. Just imagine how good that 92 defense would have looked if they weren't on the field the entire game.
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Re: Is Russell having the best
Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:09 am
  • loafoftatupu wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Krieg was very under appreciated here. Very.


    Indeed, losing him cost us at least 3 winning seasons. If he would have been the QB of that 1992 team (when that genius combo of Flores and Behring let him go in favor of Stouffer) who knows how that would have worked out. QB play DESTROYED the Hawks that year and it would have saved us the Mirer era. Krieg was a gamer and he was ousted for a single 7-9 season that was a heartbreaker in 91.

    He had a lot of help from JL Williams, but that WORKED. With an up and coming Warren as RB and that exceptional defense it would have been fun. Just imagine how good that 92 defense would have looked if they weren't on the field the entire game.


    Exactly...
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  • Missing_Clink wrote:For QBs only or all rookies?

    I would say that Lofa Tatutpu had the best debut season for any rookie. Leading the defense on a superbowl team is pretty damned amazing. We will always owe him greatly for that


    And Wagner is on pace to destroy Lofa's rookie stats! :vodka:
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