I agree with that to an extent, good info, at some point though I feel like the actual closeness in proximity has a lot to do with the energy that can be created, the advantages, and trickle down affect that come with it.Blitzfan wrote:In my opinion the building plays a part in the atmosphere, but it's just a part. We have a tradition here with the 12th man that goes back way before this stadium was built. This fan base was very hungry for pro football from the start and that transformed itself to rowdiness during games. A lot of people carried over that college atmosphere from the UW to the Kingdome. In 1984 the team retired the number 12 in recognition of the fans and their support. Also around the same time the NFL tried to but noise rules in place because of us.
Fast forward to the Clink and the tradition was continued, but in a more intimate building. The team itself does a great job riling up the crowd with some great pregame rituals. So much so that by kick off, the fans are at a fever pitch. During the games the team does a number of things to keep the fans engaged, like keeping a total of false starts we have a caused and celebrating each new one. All these play a part, but in the end I feel its about passion for the team, a passion the players feel and is reciprocated.
Metallica summed it up best in the song Battery. It starts "Lashing out the action, Returning the reaction, Weak are ripped and torn away"
While this situation is not what the song is about, it perfect describes the exchange of energy between the crowd and the team.
Djphinfan wrote: A question for you..do you feel that your fans show up on time in the beginning of the game because they don't want to miss the energy?
Djphinfan wrote:that is just awesome, I can't seem to find any articles on this specific vision by Allen..?v1rotv2 wrote:As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.
The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.
The Clink has it all.
Djphinfan wrote:people I debate on this topic would merely say to you that if a pro athlete needs to motivated by fans, there is something wrong with the athlete, almost a lack of understanding that the game is emotional, and that home crowd intensity can affect a players performance.Throwdown wrote:I'd say it gives our defense an edge.
Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.
Hawks46 wrote:There is an interesting point as to the "energy" of the building. It was built to channel noise, that's true, but when it gets truly loud there, you can actually feel the floor vibrate. So, maybe we feed off of that energy that the building creates.
After the Marshawn Lynch run in the playoffs 2 years ago, we actually registered seismic activity. THat also lends to the theory that the building, once engaged by the fans, creates it's own energy.
Damn, that almost sounds supernatural. You'd really have to experience it to believe it.
twelfman wrote:The effect starts when you get close to the stadium and notice streets named for former greats and you occasionally hear seahawks chants starting outside
They have the usual pregame kids dash for the prize of some kind and then the opposing team gets on the field to many boos and even before they are all out the music starts, the sirens go off and the announcer introduces the team , they run out onto the field amidst a volley of fireworks and then different music starts and they give you a little back story of the 12th man flagraiser this week and then they raise the flag who is accompanied by our own seahawks drum core playing behind him
Inside the stadium is very nice and they display every high school football helmet in the state along with tons of sehawk related items from the past
The view from most seats isn't just good they are down right sweet
There are so many more things to like about this place it truly is a you have to see it for yourself atmosphere
MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'm going to go in a different direction with this, Djphinfan...I don't think it has much to do with the Clink at all. Our 2008 and 2009 seasons proved that the energy of our home stadium was powerless to help an old, weak, poorly coached team. The Seahawks weren't talented, weren't gelling, weren't winning, and most importantly had no discernible direction. We were getting routinely beat at home, all the time, by quarterbacks who have since turned out to be terrible.
It was just an awful situation, and it came down to talent and coaching. The stadium didn't help at all. A few years of it, and I'm sure our attendance would be dropping like yours is.
The attitude you see on this current Seahawks team, I'd ascribe it more to these things than the Clink:
1. A lot of the intensity that this team has projects from Pete Carroll himself. He's the youngest 60-year-old I've ever seen, leads by example, practices what he preaches, constantly pumped up. For all the rah-rah grief that he gets, I'll bet the players love to score just to see him celebrate on the sidelines.
2. There's accountability in this organization that keeps everyone on their toes. Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are constantly shuffling the roster and implicitly threatening jobs by doing so. This is a stone-cold front office that has no problem putting people out to pasture. We've had expensive free agents cut (and their cap hits swallowed), first-round picks displaced in favor of off-the-street guys, zero consideration given for cost, seniority, or incumbency. This creates maximum effort and week-to-week awareness from the players.
3. Many of this team's draftees have chips on their shoulders. Our current secondary mostly went under-drafted (vastly so in the case of Richard Sherman), our QB gets dismissed by everyone for being too short, our running back and fullback got tossed aside by their old teams, and in the end you've got a ton of guys who feel that they have something to prove to the league. They play hard to prove it.
4. We've won. I hate to say it, but the best way to get a roster AND a fan base interested is to start winning. Pete Carroll came in and immediately won some games that nobody expected them to win - the San Diego and Chicago games in 2010, the Saints playoff win of course, beating the Giants on the road in 2011 (before they won the Super Bowl), and this year squeaking out wins over some high-flying passing offenses. It got the team believing in itself and its ability to beat the odds.
Scottemojo wrote:The Phins are trying to cater to the box seat crowd, and the average fan is the casualty.
Seattle talks up the 12. retires a number for the 12. The coach begs the 12 to be loud, players try to get the 12 involved, and they let the crowd know that when a false start happens, it was them who did it.
The other stuff all matters, but that is the real reason the fans are loud in Seattle.
kearly wrote:Well first of all, there is a pretty massive demographic/culture difference between Seattle and Miami. I won't risk sounding like Glenn Beck by going into the details, but really about the only thing Seattle and Miami have in common is how they vote.
Another difference is that up here we suffer from East coast bias- something Miami doesn't have to worry about. We are kind of an introverted society up here so I think that naturally leads to some insecurity. I don't know if that explains the origins of the 12thman and the intense pride Seahawks fans feel for impacting a game, but that's my theory. We want to show the world that WE are the most passionate fans on the planet and we love knowing that our efforts have an impact on the outcomes of games. We truly do feel like we are more than fans- we are a part of our football team.
The 12thman thing goes back to the 80's kingdome days. Our stadium plays a role, but I'd say it's mostly culture more than the stadium. No offense, but Miami is kind of infamous for being laissez-faire as a fan base. They are relaxed, hands off. Your baseball team is famous for having the most indifferent fan base in the majors- despite two recent championships. The dolphins aren't as bad, but it's a similarly relaxed atmosphere.
The Kingdome and Seahawks Stadium were built to be loud, but it's the culture that is responsible for the impact. Without the culture, our stadium wouldn't be any louder than most other stadiums.
As far as getting that kind of culture shift in Miami, that's tough. Up here in the NW, we are an odd bunch, and I think that kind of fuels right into the 12thman idea. There aren't a lot of other places I could see a 12thman type culture popping up. Maybe Minnesota since they have a dome, an odd, introverted fanbase with very similar demographics, a hunger to win a championship stemming from a history of losing (mostly), and poor winter weather. Arizona seems like 12thman-lite since they got their new stadium. It's hard to create though. It takes the right mixture of elements.
BlueTalon wrote:According to James Poulson, architect for the firm that designed C-Link, "We didn't go into it with the intention of making it a loud stadium. The things that we did for weather protection, for sight lines, and getting fans closer to the action, contributed to bouncing sound back down to the field."
Getting the fans closer to the action was actually the only option they had. When the decision was made to build the new stadium on the site of the King Dome, it meant they had to fit the new stadium into the same space the old one occupied, which was surrounded by buildings and other infrastructure. C-link has one of the smallest stadium footprints (if not the smallest) in the entire NFL. It simply wasn't possible to build a sprawling stadium park -- that option didn't exist. So in order to fit ~67,000 fans into the new stadium, they basically had to stack them in there.
The main reason the atmosphere at C-Link is likely never to be recaptured anywhere else, besides the lack of hyper-caffeinated 12th Men, is the fact that nobody is ever going to build an NFL stadium that small again. You see the effect of that in Miami. Also at Fed-Ex Field, also in Jerry's Jungle-gym -- 90K-100K people in the stands, that are not as loud as the 67K at C-link, because they are a lot more spread out in the huge seating capacity demanded in newer bigger stadiums.
(edited = typo)
JGfromtheNW wrote:I will go with most of the others and say that it takes a mixture of things to generate the excitement and energy at the Clink.
Montanahawk is dead on in regards to that place being flat when a team is underperforming. I would say 2008 to games in 2010, there was an underwhelming amount of energy and noise created at Seahawks Stadium. I would say this happened because our team was not winning. Granted, there were still a large number of boisterous fans, the overall excitement level wasn't there. I recall going to the game in 2010 vs. KC and, while being boozed up with the buddies and screaming our heads off, there was not the electricity in the air like going to games in 05-06.
Seattle, specifically at the Clink, has been blessed with two teams that have been overall pretty successful since they have started playing there. It is undeniable that the the atmosphere at Sounders games is also amazing. Every Sounders game that I have gone to has had an energy I didn't know was possible in the USA.
I think the success of the team at the time, the personality of the team (as someone said, very underdog-ish/chip on the shoulder type), the die-hard fans and the design of the stadium all play a part.
very cool dude..HansGruber wrote:I take exception to anyone saying the energy of the 12th Man is dependent on wins.
That may be true for the fan saying that, but it has NEVER been true for the 12th Man. I personally sat in Husky Stadium and screamed my lungs out with a whole ton of 12's, back when the Seahawks were so miserably bad the only thing to cheer for was The Tez. That place got rockin', man!
#12 does not depend on the Seahawks, the Seahawks depend on #12. And that is no joke. That is what really differentiates Seattle from other teams. Other teams talk about fans being important, but our team actually recognizes it, takes fierce pride in it, and considers #12 an actual part of the team. Seattle has retired #12 and hangs it from the rafters. Mike Holmgren presented #12 with a game ball when we forced 11 false starts against the Giants back in 2005. The organization seriously sees the 12th Man as integral part of the team, a driving force behind its success.
The 12th Man stands alone, stands proud, and gets loud no matter what the score is. And that is how we are able to fuel our team. Our noise isn't a result of a great play or a great win, our noise CREATES the great plays and the great wins. Everyone knows Seattle is unbeatable at home, but most people don't actually understand why. Most fans don't consider themselves an actual part of the team. WE DO, and we understand our Seahawks need us, so we scream until our throats are bloody every goddam time the defense takes the field. And if we're losing, we just get louder.
There really is no way to put it into words. But it is honestly one of the most wonderful things I have ever experienced. The community of #12, that energy that transcends language or thought, the intensity shared by the whole crowd, the shared pride in who we are and what we do, that the whole nation MUST respect us because the 12th Man is REAL. It's not something that a building can generate, or even a winning team. Like others have said, it is a culture. It has been here for a very long time, and will only continue to grow stronger in the future.