A discussion about your culture relative to your building.

Djphinfan

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Hello everyone, dolphin fan here, thanks for letting me post some questions here on your site, much respect.

I came here to ask because I am fascinated with your building, the culture you are developing, and the vision of the architects, would like your thoughts on how the construction of this building helps create an atmosphere and energy that is 2nd to none, and do you see a direct correlation between that construction and the energy produced from it.?

This has been a debate of mine for years in dolphin land, as you know we came from a place similar to your in terms of intimidation, intimacy, and proximity of the seats relative to the field, the orange bowl..The building that we are in now is the complete opposite of intimacy, atmospheric, and intimidation, my theory is that because the stands in our stadium are the farthest from the field in the NFL, that its creating a disconnect between fanbase and team..

For decades now every year, the same questions arise about our team at home, why is there no emotion, no spirit, no passion when our team plays at home, why are we a better road team, why did we go 1 and twelve at home and posted a winning record on the road during that same time..

Now I completely conceptualize that it takes a team you want to root for, and a successful one at that, but I feel like the advantage of playing in a building that had a built in plan to intimidate, a conscious effort to put the fans ON TOP of the field, is really affecting your franchise, your team, and your culture in a hugely positive way.

My theory and direct question comes down to, are your fans getting engaged because of the building, and how much more do you have an advantage against a building that creates a spectator type viewership because of the distance involved between players and fans ?..and, does your building and the atmosphere it can create, make tangibles differences in the performance of your players, the opponent, and your team culture?

Thanks again..we'll see you at our neutral site in a week..
 

Throwdown

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I'd say it gives our defense an edge.

Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.
 
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Djphinfan

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Throwdown":3kngsf0g said:
I'd say it gives our defense an edge.

Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.
people I debate on this topic would merely say to you that if a pro athlete needs to motivated by fans, there is something wrong with the athlete, almost a lack of understanding that the game is emotional, and that home crowd intensity can affect a players performance.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

As to your direct question, yes I do believe by putting the fans "on top" of the field it helps create a high excitement atmosphere and it does indeed affect the players and correspondingly the entire franchise. None the less man, if the team sucks, it's not going to matter because the energy level will not be high enough to have any affect on the players on the field (see the Jim Mora coached team of 4 years ago here). So first and foremost IMO, the team must be competitive in order to start the "snowball" rolling. But yeah, after that I think our stadium's configuration and the fact that the fans have an effect on opposing teams with the noise they generate can and has added to some of the success of the franchise. I can tell you from experience, when it's REALLY loud in the building, it's one of the loudest experiences I've ever had and I've been to a LOT of rock concerts over the last 40 years. The NFC Championship game of '06 was probably the most noise I have ever heard. I sat at the closed end (south) of the facility and it was so loud it was like it was almost creating wind. Simply unreal.
 
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Djphinfan

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There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Djphinfan":3eod0p5b said:
There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?
Maybe for a year or two but eventually a franchise have to have some level of consistent success to maintain an involved, attending and excited fanbase. Example: The Seattle Mariners. They don't draw shit anymore even with a great facility.
 

Wiseguy

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hawksfansinceday1":8f1ve3n2 said:
Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

The design for Clink was taken from Husky Stadium. The pit style stadium with the overhanging roof to channel the noise onto the field. People forget how loud Husky Stadium really is when 70,000+ are screaming. Been a long time since UW has been good enough to pack that place.
 
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Djphinfan

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hawksfansinceday1":xjapck2q said:
Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

As to your direct question, yes I do believe by putting the fans "on top" of the field it helps create a high excitement atmosphere and it does indeed affect the players and correspondingly the entire franchise. None the less man, if the team sucks, it's not going to matter because the energy level will not be high enough to have any affect on the players on the field (see the Jim Mora coached team of 4 years ago here). So first and foremost IMO, the team must be competitive in order to start the "snowball" rolling. But yeah, after that I think our stadium's configuration and the fact that the fans have an effect on opposing teams with the noise they generate can and has added to some of the success of the franchise. I can tell you from experience, when it's REALLY loud in the building, it's one of the loudest experiences I've ever had and I've been to a LOT of rock concerts over the last 40 years. The NFC Championship game of '06 was probably the most noise I have ever heard. I sat at the closed end (south) of the facility and it was so loud it was like it was almost creating wind. Simply unreal.

I only had my assumptions that it was built with noise and energy into the spec, is there some articles on that genius vision, because imo, that's exactly what it is..What's utterly amazing to me, is that owners are putting up billion dollar buildings and are not doing the same..They're not seeing the monetary or team advantages that your building is creating.

I think it's one of the gravest mistakes going on in this league..

If your gonna build one, then build it to engage the fan into the game, put them on top of the field, so they feel like they can impact the game, and the players can actually feel the energy from the fans.. im not even adding the advantages you can get from a football perspective..false starts, jumpin the snap count, creating pressure onto the opponent.

If I'm a new owner, and I want a new building,acoustics, intimacy and intimidation are the first ingredients, because that's how you can connect a team to its fanbase, and make a lot of money doing so..am I off here?
 

v1rotv2

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As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.
 
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Djphinfan

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hawksfansinceday1":2aczabci said:
Djphinfan":2aczabci said:
There's a lot of folks around here that can't explain why our players keep coming out flat and uninspired, especially yesterday, worst crowd ever, most of them think I'm crazy for bringing the building into the equation.

Would it be accurate in saying that your building is its own entity for sales, and can draw fans just to experience that type of atmosphere?
Maybe for a year or two but eventually a franchise have to have some level of consistent success to maintain an involved, attending and excited fanbase. Example: The Seattle Mariners. They don't draw shit anymore even with a great facility.

It's a very disturbing cycle for us, because in our situation, because of how bad the building was constructed, even if we're good, the players are not going to experience anything close to what your team does, simple logistics, and I'm trying to figure out how that can have an affect on a teams spirit and passion, and poor attendance.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Wiseguy":18473sw3 said:
hawksfansinceday1":18473sw3 said:
Most of us here are aware, and you may be as well, The C-Link was designed specifically to funnel noise downward towards the field. I'm sure Paul Allen and Co. had seen what an advantage playing in the old indoor Kingdome was and wanted as much of that type of noise advantage as possible in the new outdoor stadium when it was built. Architects did a fine job of creating the new stadium in such a fashion as most NFL fans are aware of considering the number of false start penalties opposing teams suffer through each year there.

The design for Clink was taken from Husky Stadium. The pit style stadium with the overhanging roof to channel the noise onto the field. People forget how loud Husky Stadium really is when 70,000+ are screaming. Been a long time since UW has been good enough to pack that place.
Did not know that....re:Husky Stadium. Thanks for the info.
 
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Djphinfan

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v1rotv2":14fhqov8 said:
As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.
that is just awesome, I can't seem to find any articles on this specific vision by Allen..?
 

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Welcome to .NET. I think you're spot on with a lot of your observations. Obviously a solid team is necessary to finish creating a terrifying place to play, but the stadium and ownership has a lot to do with it. I think much of your problem in Miami is inherited from the culture of the town. Laid back, casual, beach bum attitudes don't go well with smashmouth football.

That can be overcome, though. Seattle is a pretty laid back, artsy-fartsy town, and like you pointed out, we've done pretty well in transforming latte-sippers into screaming lunatics on game day. I think Miami's problem was exacerbated by ownership, and specifically the Jimmy Buffett effect. Turning the stadium into a Margaritaville partyland doesn't work. Parrotheads are not rabid, fanatical, screaming fans that aid so much in creating home field advantage. Change that, and you change your fortune.

Your team, with the extreme distance from a lot of the league (not nearly what Seattle's is, but still...), coupled with a hot, screaming swamp full of rabid fans, would go a long way to establishing a bad, bad place for opposing teams to play. Right now, it's "hey, Miami beach!"
 
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Djphinfan

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Seahawk Sailor":cfnlfl53 said:
Welcome to .NET. I think you're spot on with a lot of your observations. Obviously a solid team is necessary to finish creating a terrifying place to play, but the stadium and ownership has a lot to do with it. I think much of your problem in Miami is inherited from the culture of the town. Laid back, casual, beach bum attitudes don't go well with smashmouth football.

That can be overcome, though. Seattle is a pretty laid back, artsy-fartsy town, and like you pointed out, we've done pretty well in transforming latte-sippers into screaming lunatics on game day. I think Miami's problem was exacerbated by ownership, and specifically the Jimmy Buffett effect. Turning the stadium into a Margaritaville partyland doesn't work. Parrotheads are not rabid, fanatical, screaming fans that aid so much in creating home field advantage. Change that, and you change your fortune.

Your team, with the extreme distance from a lot of the league (not nearly what Seattle's is, but still...), coupled with a hot, screaming swamp full of rabid fans, would go a long way to establishing a bad, bad place for opposing teams to play. Right now, it's "hey, Miami beach!"
thanks man..

This is what usually happens in this conversation, you forget the building when discussing the changes..I am aware of the fan that lives in Seattle, laid back, cool, artsy like you said, but, the building is what made the transformation possible..that cannot happen where we play..
 

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It's an interesting theory. However, I see a few problems with it.

The old Kingdome was pretty funky, seating was irregular and much of the seating was not close to the field (as it was designed for dual use - baseball and football). However, the crowd in the Kingdome was rocking every week and the intimacy and intensity of the crowd was just as high as it is today in the Clink.

And if you ever go to Candlestick Park, you'll see the same thing. The design of that stadium is just bizarre, as it was primarily intended to be a baseball diamond. I've been there for games, and it is one of the worst seating designs for football that I've ever seen. In most of the stadium, the crowd is really far away from the field and visibility is pretty poor compared to other stadiums. However, that place is always packed and really intense.

So I'm not sure if the two could be factually correlated. It's an interesting theory but doesn't stand up well when you start doing a comparative analysis.
 

Blitzfan

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In my opinion the building plays a part in the atmosphere, but it's just a part. We have a tradition here with the 12th man that goes back way before this stadium was built. This fan base was very hungry for pro football from the start and that transformed itself to rowdiness during games. A lot of people carried over that college atmosphere from the UW to the Kingdome. In 1984 the team retired the number 12 in recognition of the fans and their support. Also around the same time the NFL tried to but noise rules in place because of us.

Fast forward to the Clink and the tradition was continued, but in a more intimate building. The team itself does a great job riling up the crowd with some great pregame rituals. So much so that by kick off, the fans are at a fever pitch. During the games the team does a number of things to keep the fans engaged, like keeping a total of false starts we have a caused and celebrating each new one. All these play a part, but in the end I feel its about passion for the team, a passion the players feel and is reciprocated.

Metallica summed it up best in the song Battery. It starts "Lashing out the action, Returning the reaction, Weak are ripped and torn away"

While this situation is not what the song is about, it perfect describes the exchange of energy between the crowd and the team.
 

onanygivensunday

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The important aspect to take from this discussion is Seattle's boisterous and rabid fan base preceded the new stadium by some 26 years.

The original ownership group, headed by John Nordstromm, presented Seattle with the right product at the right time.

The city/area fell in love with the team and that love affair has never been lost, despite some real hard times during the 90s.
 
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Djphinfan

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HansGruber":1nnwjh6g said:
It's an interesting theory. However, I see a few problems with it.

The old Kingdome was pretty funky, seating was irregular and much of the seating was not close to the field (as it was designed for dual use - baseball and football). However, the crowd in the Kingdome was rocking every week and the intimacy and intensity of the crowd was just as high as it is today in the Clink.

And if you ever go to Candlestick Park, you'll see the same thing. The design of that stadium is just bizarre, as it was primarily intended to be a baseball diamond. I've been there for games, and it is one of the worst seating designs for football that I've ever seen. In most of the stadium, the crowd is really far away from the field and visibility is pretty poor compared to other stadiums. However, that place is always packed and really intense.

So I'm not sure if the two could be factually correlated. It's an interesting theory but doesn't stand up well when you start doing a comparative analysis.
I think it's relative, if you saw it first hand, ( ours and yours together) and then compare the two, the discrepency could become clear, and start to see tangible disadvantages.

Candlestick stands are a lot closer than ours, it might be a weird design, but bottom line, when your a certain distance from the action, you are unengaged, and any effort to become engaged is an exercise in futility..

The ravens stadium is like your in terms of proximity of the field in relation to the stands..there's no question that team plays better at home, 22 and 0 over the last three years..

A question for you..do you feel that your fans show up on time in the beginning of the game because they don't want to miss the energy?
 

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