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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Hawkadeus wrote:
I agree with what you're saying. The opponents defintely factor in to the results. That is true. That said, what you're saying is our defense isn't good enough to stop good offenses. That we should only be expected to stonewall bad to mediocre offenses. If thats the case, I dont see how we can be all too excited over our team and our prospects.


We DID stop good offenses this year. It's far easier to explain the recent issues as temporary and very fixable wobbles than as the truth about a defense that clamped down on Tom Brady.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:04 pm 
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We played 4 of the top 5 offenses and only Detroit did anything against us. And they still only won at the very end. We held the 11th best offense to 7 points. Think about it, we rank so high AFTER playing the best the NFL has to throw at us.

We only face one offense in the top 16 the rest of the way. Our defense should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:37 pm 
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We played great for one month, then crapply for one month. Which should be more applicable right now? Im sorry, but for me, its the most recent one. Just as I would be saying if we played one month of crap defense followed by a month of great d. Which is the case for our offense. I dont know why one would try to fight against trends and say that we should assume current trends mean nothing and that we should go with what was happening a month ago. only reason is foolish homerism. If you disagree, then you should not be buying into the Hawks offense improving. Because who cares about the last month. the previous one is what matters most. Right?


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:10 pm 
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I hope coaches concentrate on the run defense here on out considering every team left on the schedule aside from Arizona are far better rushing the ball than passing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:45 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
1st round: Seattle at SF, GB at NYG


I would kill to go to SF on wild card weekend, and win. I want to shut the Whiners up so badly.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:16 am 
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I have a hard time believing any defensive stat that has the 49ers below us. Doesn't fit the eye test.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:50 am 
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hedgehawk wrote:
I have a hard time believing any defensive stat that has the 49ers below us. Doesn't fit the eye test.


That 49er Defense has been manhandled at home, and got manhandled by the offense we just beat.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:59 am 
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Navyhawkfan187 wrote:
hedgehawk wrote:
I have a hard time believing any defensive stat that has the 49ers below us. Doesn't fit the eye test.


That 49er Defense has been manhandled at home, and got manhandled by the offense we just beat.


They didn't get beat by the run, by Ponder beat their asses. That should tell you everything you need to know about their defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:06 am 
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Hawkadeus wrote:
We played great for one month, then crapply for one month. Which should be more applicable right now? Im sorry, but for me, its the most recent one. Just as I would be saying if we played one month of crap defense followed by a month of great d. Which is the case for our offense. I dont know why one would try to fight against trends and say that we should assume current trends mean nothing and that we should go with what was happening a month ago. only reason is foolish homerism. If you disagree, then you should not be buying into the Hawks offense improving. Because who cares about the last month. the previous one is what matters most. Right?


Results based analysis is giving you diarrhea of the keyboard. Look at the individual and collective matchups to forecast, not what happened last game. Trends don't mean a damn thing, it is all about the matchups.

For instance, did we actually play bad D against the Patriots, as you say? I recall a D that stopped the run fairly well, dished out enough hits to give Patriot receivers short arms as the game wore on, and stiffened in the redzone and at the end of the game on Brady's last two drives. Go to the box score and look at Brady's yards and you will hiccup, but then figure out his YPA and understand that we got them out of their game. It was actually a good defensive performance. Because we won enough matchups.

Then the Niners. Gore had two really good runs and a handful of decent runs. Give him and them credit. How many points did they get in that game? 14? And Alex Smith looked terrible? So why did they run so well? Look at that offensive line, which is the best run blocking group in football. The simple fact is that you can cry about bad run D all you want, 14 points says that our offense lost that game, not the run D. Our receivers faced a D as violent as ours, and they got short arms. Don't pin that loss on the D. But we did lose too many individual matchups, thus Gore's run totals.

The Lions game certainly didn't feature much good running by the Lions, but that is one loss you can pin on the D. That was a legit 28 they hung on us. Still, we were one defensive play away from stealing a win. But in choosing to shut down Megatron, we put our secondary and linebackers into some unfavorable individual matchups and gambled wrong on Stafford's supposed impatience and desire to throw into the short middle.

And then the Vikings. Yeah, watching us get gashed by purple Jesus was tough, but we lost a starting LB early in that game. I don't think Jason Jones being gone had that big an effect beyond keeping some of of our other DT's on the field a bit too much, but look at the matchups. Loadholt can't pass block for shit, but he can single block Red Bryant. He's good. Mebane's penetration actually worked against the Hawks, it created cut back lanes that only scatbacks should be physically capable of exloiting, but hey, purple Jesus. Kalil was in the 2nd level constantly too, and actually had one of the best performances of the week according to Football Outsiders. We lost straight up matchups. Get your brain off the yards, look at the matchups. We didn't play terrible defense, they played great run offense. How many teams are built to do that? Not very many. There is no trend, though.


Now look at the Jets. Can Shonne Greene exploit a cut back lane? Not really. Do their tackles road grade like the Vikings? Nope. Does their center guard combination do a good job of creating run space in the middle? Kind of, yeah, but not like the Vikings or Niners. Our Run D should win the matchups this week. Does that mean some trick play with Tebow won't gash our run D? Does that mean that if Wright can't go we might surrender a couple of run plays that look bad? It just might, but over all we should stop the run against THIS team. And once the Jets go one dimensional, they are toast. Because there are no matchups that favor them in our secondary.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:48 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Hawkadeus wrote:
We played great for one month, then crapply for one month. Which should be more applicable right now? Im sorry, but for me, its the most recent one. Just as I would be saying if we played one month of crap defense followed by a month of great d. Which is the case for our offense. I dont know why one would try to fight against trends and say that we should assume current trends mean nothing and that we should go with what was happening a month ago. only reason is foolish homerism. If you disagree, then you should not be buying into the Hawks offense improving. Because who cares about the last month. the previous one is what matters most. Right?


Results based analysis is giving you diarrhea of the keyboard. Look at the individual and collective matchups to forecast, not what happened last game. Trends don't mean a damn thing, it is all about the matchups.

For instance, did we actually play bad D against the Patriots, as you say? I recall a D that stopped the run fairly well, dished out enough hits to give Patriot receivers short arms as the game wore on, and stiffened in the redzone and at the end of the game on Brady's last two drives. Go to the box score and look at Brady's yards and you will hiccup, but then figure out his YPA and understand that we got them out of their game. It was actually a good defensive performance. Because we won enough matchups.

Then the Niners. Gore had two really good runs and a handful of decent runs. Give him and them credit. How many points did they get in that game? 14? And Alex Smith looked terrible? So why did they run so well? Look at that offensive line, which is the best run blocking group in football. The simple fact is that you can cry about bad run D all you want, 14 points says that our offense lost that game, not the run D. Our receivers faced a D as violent as ours, and they got short arms. Don't pin that loss on the D. But we did lose too many individual matchups, thus Gore's run totals.

The Lions game certainly didn't feature much good running by the Lions, but that is one loss you can pin on the D. That was a legit 28 they hung on us. Still, we were one defensive play away from stealing a win. But in choosing to shut down Megatron, we put our secondary and linebackers into some unfavorable individual matchups and gambled wrong on Stafford's supposed impatience and desire to throw into the short middle.

And then the Vikings. Yeah, watching us get gashed by purple Jesus was tough, but we lost a starting LB early in that game. I don't think Jason Jones being gone had that big an effect beyond keeping some of of our other DT's on the field a bit too much, but look at the matchups. Loadholt can't pass block for shit, but he can single block Red Bryant. He's good. Mebane's penetration actually worked against the Hawks, it created cut back lanes that only scatbacks should be physically capable of exloiting, but hey, purple Jesus. Kalil was in the 2nd level constantly too, and actually had one of the best performances of the week according to Football Outsiders. We lost straight up matchups. Get your brain off the yards, look at the matchups. We didn't play terrible defense, they played great run offense. How many teams are built to do that? Not very many. There is no trend, though.


Now look at the Jets. Can Shonne Greene exploit a cut back lane? Not really. Do their tackles road grade like the Vikings? Nope. Does their center guard combination do a good job of creating run space in the middle? Kind of, yeah, but not like the Vikings or Niners. Our Run D should win the matchups this week. Does that mean some trick play with Tebow won't gash our run D? Does that mean that if Wright can't go we might surrender a couple of run plays that look bad? It just might, but over all we should stop the run against THIS team. And once the Jets go one dimensional, they are toast. Because there are no matchups that favor them in our secondary.



gotta agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:30 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:


I wouldn't be talking with the way your team made Ponder look like a pro bowler. AP's the top back in the league. What's your excuse?


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:36 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:

:34853_doh: Yet another empty head 49er Troll with nothing to contribute.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:00 pm 
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-The Glove- wrote:
80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:


I wouldn't be talking with the way your team made Ponder look like a pro bowler. AP's the top back in the league. What's your excuse?



Hahaha brah I wasnt even talking down on your team that stat just goes to show what you guys did against other RBs you guys faced......well escept Frank Gore of course cause he did your guys a$$ too.......

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:03 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
-The Glove- wrote:
80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:


I wouldn't be talking with the way your team made Ponder look like a pro bowler. AP's the top back in the league. What's your excuse?



Hahaha brah I wasnt even talking down on your team that stat just goes to show what you guys did against other RBs you guys faced......well escept Frank Gore of course cause he did your guys a$$ too.......


More like your offensive line did our guys a$$ and Frank just ran right through the gaping holes like you or I could do. That hasn't happened once this year before or since, so I'm finding it hard to believe that it's a serious problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Jville wrote:
80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:

:34853_doh: Yet another empty head 49er Troll with nothing to contribute.



Hahahaha empty head.....thats a good one....plus I contribute to society.....with my high paying job and Im guessing with Obahma re-elected and where I am in our nations Tax bracket....I contribute more than you....maybe not in "seachicken" football talk but in more important things.....and I wasnt even bashing your team.....but since you wanna go all defensive and start name calling.....U GUYS SUCK AND ARE GONNA FINSH 6-10 this year HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:09 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Jville wrote:
80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:

:34853_doh: Yet another empty head 49er Troll with nothing to contribute.



Hahahaha empty head.....thats a good one....plus I contribute to society.....with my high paying job and Im guessing with Obahma re-elected and where I am in our nations Tax bracket....I contribute more than you....maybe not in "seachicken" football talk but in more important things.....and I wasnt even bashing your team.....but since you wanna go all defensive and start name calling.....U GUYS SUCK AND ARE GONNA FINSH 6-10 this year HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are you mad man?

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:12 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
SalishHawkFan wrote:
1st round: Seattle at SF, GB at NYG


I would kill to go to SF on wild card weekend, and win. I want to shut the Whiners up so badly.



You guys REALLY dont like us huh??

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:19 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
SalishHawkFan wrote:
1st round: Seattle at SF, GB at NYG


I would kill to go to SF on wild card weekend, and win. I want to shut the Whiners up so badly.



You guys REALLY dont like us huh??


Us? :shock: How many personalities are there in you?

Your not hearing voices are you?


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:23 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Jville wrote:
80849er4life wrote:
Thats impressive considering you guys let AP run wild on you guys last week.... :smiley_boxin:

:34853_doh: Yet another empty head 49er Troll with nothing to contribute.



Hahahaha empty head.....thats a good one....plus I contribute to society.....with my high paying job and Im guessing with Obahma re-elected and where I am in our nations Tax bracket....I contribute more than you....maybe not in "seachicken" football talk but in more important things.....and I wasnt even bashing your team.....but since you wanna go all defensive and start name calling.....U GUYS SUCK AND ARE GONNA FINSH 6-10 this year HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well enjoy your extra time with society...I have a feeling you won't be around here long.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:24 pm 
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You guys REALLY dont like us huh??[/quote]

Us? :shock: How many personalities are there in you?

Your not hearing voices are you?[/quote]

No....but Im glad that your making fun of me....it makes it easier for me to tell who's a prick on this site and who isnt.....which one do you think you are???? :moon.:

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:30 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Hahahaha empty head.....thats a good one....plus I contribute to society.....with my high paying job and Im guessing with Obahma re-elected and where I am in our nations Tax bracket....I contribute more than you....maybe not in "seachicken" football talk but in more important things.....and I wasnt even bashing your team.....but since you wanna go all defensive and start name calling.....U GUYS SUCK AND ARE GONNA FINSH 6-10 this year HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you really want to be able to continue to talk non-smack, football topics on the main board you may want to visit the FAQ section. We have a smack shack that you can have all the fun you want but the mods try to keep the main board from degenerating into a penis measuring contest.

Read the rules and enjoy your stay or keep up the troll smack and live a short board life. Plus politics are discussed in the PWR forum. Not everything revolves around the world of politics. You will find folks that agree or disagree with your politics there.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:35 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
You guys REALLY dont like us huh??


Quote:
Us? :shock: How many personalities are there in you?

Your not hearing voices are you?

Quote:
No....but Im glad that your making fun of me....it makes it easier for me to tell who's a prick on this site and who isnt.....which one do you think you are???? :moon.:


Don't you have any friends?

You know ...... an actual human being that you like and can call and talk about yourself with?


Last edited by Jville on Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Well enjoy your extra time with society...I have a feeling you won't be around here long.[/quote]

:snack:

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:45 pm 
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If you really want to be able to continue to talk non-smack, football topics on the main board you may want to visit the FAQ section. We have a smack shack that you can have all the fun you want but the mods try to keep the main board from degenerating into a penis measuring contest.

Read the rules and enjoy your stay or keep up the troll smack and live a short board life. Plus politics are discussed in the PWR forum. Not everything revolves around the world of politics. You will find folks that agree or disagree with your politics there.[/quote]


See why cant everyone be like you....thanks braddah

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Don't you have any friends?

You know ...... an actual human being that you like and can call and talk about yourself with?[/quote]

Yeah I have friends.....whats your point??? Where are you going with this cause your losing me buddy....

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Dude will you please figure out how the quote function works?

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Jville wrote:
Don't you have any friends?

You know ...... an actual human being that you like and can call and talk about yourself with?


80849er4life wrote:
Yeah I have friends.....whats your point??? Where are you going with this cause your losing me buddy....


You don't know? :shock: There is nobody in your committee that knows?


Last edited by Jville on Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:54 pm 
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As far as the Vikings game, AP had a bust out run, it happens. It's like a CB falling down in coverage and the QB hitting him for 80 yds. We missed an assignment and AP seen it and ran, it's what he does, credit him for seeing it. That doesn't make our defense bad vs the run, it's says we have humans playing that can sometimes overeact and not be where they should. It's limiting those kinds of plays and stopping the rest of the plays that will make us good and elite. We do a pretty good job of that overall.

Those that want to crucify players for missing on one play should go back to Madden and or electronic football.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Hey! Don't knock electronic football. I LOVED electronic football when I was little.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Dude will you please figure out how the quote function works?


Why its working

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:12 pm 
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You don't know? :shock: There is nobody in your committee that knows?[/quote]

Still dont know where your going with this?? Committee?? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:14 pm 
* The Producer *
* The Producer *
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You're a fantastic ambassador for your fan base.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
You're a fantastic ambassador for your fan base.


Thanks....didnt say I was....and I never gave you the impression that I was either...so BOOOOM!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:38 pm 
* The Producer *
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Your mastery of the English language is impressive, I'll give you that.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Your mastery of the English language is impressive, I'll give you that.


And Im Hawaiian....go figure

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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:58 pm 
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80849er4life wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Your mastery of the English language is impressive, I'll give you that.


And Im Hawaiian....go figure


Your probably just mad cause our defense is ranked ahead of yours in FO's rankings, and rightfully so :49ersmall:


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 Post subject: Re: Football Outsiders upgrades Hawks: #3 pass D, #6 run D
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:59 am 
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Sorry guys but you may wave at our Hawaiian friend and remember him fondly.

:141847_bnono:

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