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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:57 pm 
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I think he is right on track, at the end of the year I will take 9 sacks in the limited amount of time he is on the field, once he develops technique to go with those mad physical gifts he has he will be a beast !

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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:26 pm 
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To be honest I'm quite surprised he managed 4.5 sacks so far. I don't know how to explain it but at times he seems just... helpless...
Either he's trying to bull rush but doesn't have the strength or he's overshooting the QB and has the tackle just mirror him. He's very far from Clem right now, even if the stats won't show it.
I'm not making any conclusions yet of course, but I really hope to see more from him, especially winning 1 on 1 matchups against the OT's


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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:40 pm 
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roiyair wrote:
To be honest I'm quite surprised he managed 4.5 sacks so far. I don't know how to explain it but at times he seems just... helpless...
Either he's trying to bull rush but doesn't have the strength or he's overshooting the QB and has the tackle just mirror him. He's very far from Clem right now, even if the stats won't show it.
I'm not making any conclusions yet of course, but I really hope to see more from him, especially winning 1 on 1 matchups against the OT's

He is a rookie..... Pass rushing DEs typically don't make year one impacts.

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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Jville wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
Since we're at the midway point of the 2012 season, I thought it'd be interesting to compare Irvin's stats to the other D-Lineman taken in the first round that the Hawks were rumored to be interested in.

In order drafted
Fletcher Cox - Philly = 11 tackles, 1 sack
Michael Brockers - St. Louis = 6 tackles, 1 sack
Bruce Irvin - Seattle = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
Quintin Coples - Jets = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
Shea McClellin - San Diego = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Chandler Jones - New England = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
Whitney Mercilus - 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble


I'm not sure how useful these statistical summaries are for comparing different players used in different ways in different systems. Whitney Mercilus, for example, is actually listed as a linebacker who has seen more snaps on special teams (109) than on defense (79) thru week 8.

But in any case, providing snap counts on defense thru week 8 might add some perspective.

490 defensive snaps - Chandler Jones = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
296 defensive snaps - Quintin Coples = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
272 defensive snaps - Fletcher Cox = 11 tackles, 1 sack
217 defensive snaps - Bruce Irvin = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
215 defensive snaps - Michael Brockers = 6 tackles, 1 sack
201 defensive snaps - Shea McClellin = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
079 defensive snaps - Whitney Mercilus = 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

By the way, Bruce Irvin leads all Seahawk defensive linemen in special teams snaps with 41 thru week eight. The trio of Mebane, Bryant and Branch are all tied for second with 28 special teams snaps each.

For those interested in snap counts, Football Outsiders is your source and friend >>> http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts2012



Jville, excellent post. The bold part was the place I was most interested in seeing Irvin in this season with how raw he was coming in. Remember that he was not taught how to be a pass rusher at West Virginia. I was very excited to watch him coming off the edge for punt and field goal blocks, however a lot of the time, he is not giving his all trying to get there. It is probably the coaching instructing him not to go all out for blocks, but I am hoping that changes.

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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Mistashoesta wrote:
Young2Rice wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
I think Irvin is doing well. He's not a full-time DE at this point and his sack numbers are the second highest.


Aside from the sack totals, which can be deceiving, have you noticed him disrupting the passer? Causing errant throws or flushing the QB out of the pocket?

Are his sacks blows assignments or dd he beat them with moves?

Basically, what i'm asking, is when he's not getting sacks, what have you seen. That's the best way to assess him. Because 4.5 sacks is only 5 plays to assess from.

From the games i've seen, which were three (GB, Lions, Niners and Dallas), Irvin was a non factor aside from the GB game.


Pretty sure that's four my friend.


Yeah my bad.


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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Irvin is doing fine for a rookie.

He got another sack today and got a couple good hits on Ponder, which are also valuable.

He even if only ever is a pass rushing specialist for us, if he does it well, he is doing something we need.


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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:39 pm 
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hawkmanj wrote:
Irvin is doing fine for a rookie.

He got another sack today and got a couple good hits on Ponder, which are also valuable.

He even if only ever is a pass rushing specialist for us, if he does it well, he is doing something we need.


I read somewhere that he is going to take over for Clemons AND the coaching staff expects him to be a better run defender than Clemons. Hmmmmm......


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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Jville wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
Jville wrote:

I'm not sure how useful these statistical summaries are for comparing different players used in different ways in different systems. Whitney Mercilus, for example, is actually listed as a linebacker who has seen more snaps on special teams (109) than on defense (79) thru week 8.


You kinda illustrated my concern. The criticism of most draft experts was that Irvin was a pass rush specialist, and therefore not worthy of such a high pick.......and your snap count list proves that.

This is also in direct contrast to what Carroll said at the draft which was Irvin was not going to just be a pass rusher, that he was going to be developed into a full time DE.

Will Irvin be great someday? Maybe, but right now we're not getting enough production out of that DE spot opposite Clemons, and it's hurting our pass defense.


Development time. Your talking about development time. Most rookies need time to develop their game in high school, college, and the NFL.

The draft objective that sticks in my mind is the selection of players with unique characteristics. Bruce Irvin as well as Jaye Howard have unique attributes that John and Pete covet. However, Bruce and Jaye both arrived with narrow specialties that limit their usefulness early on in their careers. Jaye Howard in fact has yet to see the field during the regular season.

I think the criticism that John and Pete have placed too much emphasis on specialists is a valid argument by outsiders. However, the current Seahawk program is structured to bring in and develop young players every year and turn over the roster in a planned manner.

So .... it may take two or three years to broaden the skill sets of Howard and Irvin and turn them into three down players. I for one was very relieved with the news that Chris Clemons signed a three year contract. In Seattle's current program, where a player is drafted is a reflection of perceived supply and demand of skill sets .... and not a reflection of perceived return on investement in the short term.

What I see is a program designed to dominate the division. Striving to understand it and watch it unfold is the fun part. :th2thumbs:



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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:07 pm 
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hawksfan515 wrote:
hawkmanj wrote:
Irvin is doing fine for a rookie.

He got another sack today and got a couple good hits on Ponder, which are also valuable.

He even if only ever is a pass rushing specialist for us, if he does it well, he is doing something we need.


I read somewhere that he is going to take over for Clemons AND the coaching staff expects him to be a better run defender than Clemons. Hmmmmm......


have the same patience as we do with Russell and all is well......he is a rookie !

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 Post subject: Re: How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:38 pm 
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I see Irvin getting beast-like in the 2nd half of year 2. He's got amazing raw physical talent, and I think the mental desire to improve. I see him flourishing in year 3, if the schemes and the accompanying personnel allow.

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