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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Seeker wrote:
Young Lb (wagner, who is otherwise doing well) not feeling sure enough to commit to a decision. This would be compensated by a strong nickle on coverage making that available pass option not open. which will be solved this week with the official return of you know who.

I am not seeing a lot on how good the Offense was. a huge marshawn run (not the norm and don't expect it to happen all the time) and a few smooth redzone drives (people fear our pass now) against a great front line. I don't expect this d to allow this many points every game and i expect this middle to get less and less soft as WTIII gets back up to speed. remember, seahawks plus WT3 = seahawks + a guy who is better than even richard sherman, he also specializes in nickle (which tru is struggling in).

We don't know that he's better than Sherman. I'm a big fan of WT3 but he's looked good in very limited time.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Need Walter Thurmond back on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:49 am 
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Richard Sherman is playing today because WT got injured. people forget that was his spot sherms in.
Best part about it, WT3's speciality? the freakin nickle. we are back in business folks.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:39 am 
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Wow, someone saying Thurmond is better than Sherman in here? Crazy talk. Not saying it's not possible somewhere down the line it could happen although that would make Thurmond one hell of a db. Saying it right now though, crazy talk. I would venture to say IF he is healthy would be an instant upgrade over Trufant in the nickel. Don't think that would be too crazy to assume.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:20 am 
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Seeker wrote:
Richard Sherman is playing today because WT got injured. people forget that was his spot sherms in.
Best part about it, WT3's speciality? the freakin nickle. we are back in business folks.


Nobody's forgetting how Sherm got the starting job. But like other great, talented athletes, once he got the job, he'll hold onto it.

WT3 may have been more polished than Sherman, but better, I don't think so. Let's not forget Sherman was a rookie last season and played only 2 seasons as a CB in college.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:29 am 
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Yeah, I doubt many people anticipated how good Sherman would become. Thurmond was ahead of him on the depth chart prior to being injured, but that's not saying much because he didn't play long enough to prove much. I think this becomes a bit like comparing apples to oranges though. IMO, Thurmond is quicker than Sherman and Browner, so he'll be better at covering the smaller, quicker/shiftier slot receivers. He was very good in coverage at Oregon, and was looking promising as a pro before his injuries happened. Though he doesn't have Sherman's size, I think he'd do farely well at L or R CB in a pinch. At 5'11" 190lbs, I think he will be most at home in the slot. He probably has much better ball-hawking skills than other midgets such as Jennings and most likely will be better than Trufant in that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:56 am 
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WOW. I never noticed that. I guess that explains how easy it is to break off 15 yard runs also. If anyone slips that first level, (gore)They are gone to the races.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:07 am 
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djb28 wrote:
WOW. I never noticed that. I guess that explains how easy it is to break off 15 yard runs also. If anyone slips that first level, (gore)They are gone to the races.


That had more to do with the 9ers showing pass, then running a trap play. Next stop was Earl! ...not to mention a lack of gap discipline. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:16 am 
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-The Glove- wrote:
Seeker wrote:
Richard Sherman is playing today because WT got injured. people forget that was his spot sherms in.
Best part about it, WT3's speciality? the freakin nickle. we are back in business folks.


Nobody's forgetting how Sherm got the starting job. But like other great, talented athletes, once he got the job, he'll hold onto it.

WT3 may have been more polished than Sherman, but better, I don't think so. Let's not forget Sherman was a rookie last season and played only 2 seasons as a CB in college.

nahhh, can't believe that cuz that's saying the guy who originally wins the job shouldn't have to begin with and the coaches were wrong. Can't leave the window of possibility that our best QB is sitting on the bench.

But back to WT3. He beat out Ultimas Prime AND a former lock down pro bowl corner in Tru. The guy came with the skills needed to win the job. He'll need to catch up, he's still basically a rookie, but he's a definite upgrade to our D and hopefully it show. Of course, this all depends on if the injury didn't take anything away from him.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:46 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:
It's a balance. You really can't defend EVERY part of the field, by and large. Something is going to be vulnerable at some point.

Right now, it's the underneath stuff. We can't over-shift to protect that and then start giving up the 40-yard bombs every week (which I certainly don't miss from Seahawks defenses of days past). Yeah we still give up a few here and there (Welker in the Pats game, Givens in the Rams game, Young yesterday) but we used to routinely get scorched on deep stuff. The idea is to keep everything in front of you.

Herein lies the challenge of the modern NFL defensive coordinator. We will adjust...


Whoa, what's this? Perspective? You need to post more.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:42 am 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
-The Glove- wrote:
Seeker wrote:
Richard Sherman is playing today because WT got injured. people forget that was his spot sherms in.
Best part about it, WT3's speciality? the freakin nickle. we are back in business folks.


Nobody's forgetting how Sherm got the starting job. But like other great, talented athletes, once he got the job, he'll hold onto it.

WT3 may have been more polished than Sherman, but better, I don't think so. Let's not forget Sherman was a rookie last season and played only 2 seasons as a CB in college.

nahhh, can't believe that cuz that's saying the guy who originally wins the job shouldn't have to begin with and the coaches were wrong. Can't leave the window of possibility that our best QB is sitting on the bench.

But back to WT3. He beat out Ultimas Prime AND a former lock down pro bowl corner in Tru. The guy came with the skills needed to win the job. He'll need to catch up, he's still basically a rookie, but he's a definite upgrade to our D and hopefully it show. Of course, this all depends on if the injury didn't take anything away from him.

I don't doubt he was the best man for the job at the time. I was/still am a huge WT3 fan. Everytime he was on the field, I was drawn to his play.

Can't wait til he gets back up to speed though, but we need him BAD right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:59 am 
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GeekHawk wrote:
I sure don't understand why we would drop into the zone coverage that gives up short routes in favor of defending against long routes, when the ball is on the 1 yard line at the end of a game. I really don't. WTF were we defending against a long route there? (This is based on Browner's post-game comment about being in zone on that last Detroit play.)



Because rational thinking would be we could stop at least one third down in that situation...(Detroit..AZ...etc)

We would have had two more wins

Two stops and in two games in two fourth quarters and we would have two more wins

That was somewhat poetic...in a manly football way of course!!


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:33 am 
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Which Walter Thurmond injury is being discussed here? Somebody mentioned they hope the injury didn't take anything away. Hasn't he blown out both knees at least once? I believe he dropped a great deal in the draft due to a horrific college injury. Correct? I'm just not sure why everybody thinks that his coming back = problem solved. It may help, but there are much bigger problems than one player. It isn't as if teams are consistently beating the same player. I know people want to act like it's all Tru's fault, but how many of those 3rd down passes were actually completed to a guy he was covering? Even if it is a high percentage, there is still the problem that teams have figured out that they just need to complete the ball and then their guy can run for 5-7 more yards to get the first down due to our horrible scheme.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:52 pm 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Which Walter Thurmond injury is being discussed here? Somebody mentioned they hope the injury didn't take anything away. Hasn't he blown out both knees at least once? I believe he dropped a great deal in the draft due to a horrific college injury. Correct? I'm just not sure why everybody thinks that his coming back = problem solved. It may help, but there are much bigger problems than one player. It isn't as if teams are consistently beating the same player. I know people want to act like it's all Tru's fault, but how many of those 3rd down passes were actually completed to a guy he was covering? Even if it is a high percentage, there is still the problem that teams have figured out that they just need to complete the ball and then their guy can run for 5-7 more yards to get the first down due to our horrible scheme.

This was my thought too. It would be bad form to set the over/under on how many games Thurmond will play, but there is no evidence this guy can line up and play even half a season without getting injured.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:00 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
Which Walter Thurmond injury is being discussed here? Somebody mentioned they hope the injury didn't take anything away. Hasn't he blown out both knees at least once? I believe he dropped a great deal in the draft due to a horrific college injury. Correct? I'm just not sure why everybody thinks that his coming back = problem solved. It may help, but there are much bigger problems than one player. It isn't as if teams are consistently beating the same player. I know people want to act like it's all Tru's fault, but how many of those 3rd down passes were actually completed to a guy he was covering? Even if it is a high percentage, there is still the problem that teams have figured out that they just need to complete the ball and then their guy can run for 5-7 more yards to get the first down due to our horrible scheme.

This was my thought too. It would be bad form to set the over/under on how many games Thurmond will play, but there is no evidence this guy can line up and play even half a season without getting injured.


Who's the CB we got from GB during the Holmgren era who was touted as the best cover corner to come out of his draft class? Vinson? The poor guy spent almost his entire times with us on IR. Thurmond harkens memories of that, though I really wish proves me wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:07 am 
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Yes, I believe it was Vinson, and we traded Ahman Green to get him. We had the same kind of situation with Nate Odoms. We signed both he and House Ballard away from the Bills for big money. House played his contract out and then some (he was a steal and a half), and Nate never played a game for us. I think he blew his knee out in a charity basketball game in the offseason just prior to the start of training camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:45 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Yes, I believe it was Vinson, and we traded Ahman Green to get him. We had the same kind of situation with Nate Odoms. We signed both he and House Ballard away from the Bills for big money. House played his contract out and then some (he was a steal and a half), and Nate never played a game for us. I think he blew his knee out in a charity basketball game in the offseason just prior to the start of training camp.


I think we traded Green for MacIntosh who was a killer lineman. But got injured in his neck or back in either training camp or the first game and because of the severity of the injury never played a down for us.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:04 am 
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i'm not saying our defensive whoa's are all on trufant, obviously, but he is a weak spot on the D... in my opinion he was never a lockdown probowl corner to begin with, he had one good year... all the other years when he wasn't hurt, he was constantly beat badly, contantly over matched and undersized... i said a few years back we need a lock down corner and move fant to the nickle... now that that's happend, he's to old and slow... good recievers like welker, abadabu or whatever his name is from the rams have already exploited this.. great hawk, but it's time to move on from him just like we did with sean springs..

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:17 am 
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I love Tru, but yeah this should be his final year with the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:40 am 
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The Radish wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
Yes, I believe it was Vinson, and we traded Ahman Green to get him. We had the same kind of situation with Nate Odoms. We signed both he and House Ballard away from the Bills for big money. House played his contract out and then some (he was a steal and a half), and Nate never played a game for us. I think he blew his knee out in a charity basketball game in the offseason just prior to the start of training camp.


I think we traded Green for MacIntosh who was a killer lineman. But got injured in his neck or back in either training camp or the first game and because of the severity of the injury never played a down for us.

:les:


We drafted Chris McIntosh in the first round out of Wisconsin. No trade involved that I can recall... unless we got Vinson AND a pick for Ahman Green. Then he held out and everybody was booing him and such. Holmgren was griping that he was so far behind due to holding out (Holmgren seemed to hate all linemen, remember the stuff with Pete Kendall? He also hated Ahman Green and talked extensively about how he didn't fit the system... and then drafted a very similar runner in Shaun). Then Chris finally started to play like what we expected and was just destroying guys and his neck blew out, just like Mack Strong's did. He wasn't ever able to play again. I think he played around 8 or 9 games maybe in total. I think McIntosh would have gone down as an all-time Hawk Great if he'd not injured his neck, but afterward there was some talk that he had a narrowed spinal canal and the team should have picked up on it in pre-draft physicals. I have the same condition, suffered the same injury, and wouldn't you know it... had the same surgery both he and Mack had. I can still throw the ball around and stuff, but it's obvious why he never played a down again. It's playing with fire. If I move slightly wrong I'll get a stinger from hell and my arm won't work for a week. But usually it just feels totally normal like pre-injury.

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:17 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
i'm not saying our defensive whoa's are all on trufant, obviously, but he is a weak spot on the D... in my opinion he was never a lockdown probowl corner to begin with, he had one good year... all the other years when he wasn't hurt, he was constantly beat badly, contantly over matched and undersized... i said a few years back we need a lock down corner and move fant to the nickle... now that that's happend, he's to old and slow... good recievers like welker, abadabu or whatever his name is from the rams have already exploited this.. great hawk, but it's time to move on from him just like we did with sean springs..



Funny there is a string on the main forum today explaining the way they are playing defense and that what Tru is being for is actually the fault of the way they are positioning him.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Defending the "soft" middle
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:09 pm 
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I think we should rename it the Twinkies defense or something more appropriate until the Legion of Boom decides to make a return. That zone is softer than the cream filling in the middle of the unspoilable spongecake.

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