It's Pete time...

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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:33 am
  • pehawk wrote:It's on him now, he needs to right this, and soon.

    Even before the offense took steps forwards against NE, the offense could always; run the ball, hit any pattern, could throw long WELL. The defense has the players and tools to play well. Plus, this team ALWAYS plays hard, in every facet of the game.

    Playing hard usually will beat the likes of Detroit. The talent differential should've beaten the Rams. And, the offense seemed uninterested in winning the SF game (based on poor execution).

    I look at a team like Miami, with SO much less, seemingly playing better and just as hard. And, they're winning, ON THE ROAD. So, for all the excuses of how better it is, how much brilliance Pete has shown putting this together, there's no more excuses for not winning.

    Yesterday really pissed me off. That's a mentally soft team the Seahawks lost to. The perfect type of learning road win this teams NEEDS to get.

    I'm appreciative of Pete. But, there's no more room for losses.


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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:51 am
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Somehow, I just can't agree that a team which is one of the best (league leader, even?) at scoring 4th quarter points is mentally soft.


    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Hawks are averaging 5.5 points per game in the 4th quarter. Good for 22nd in the NFL. We're really bad in the 2nd quarter (31st).

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4t ... s-per-game
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:53 am
  • The 3rd and 11 play at 17-7 was key for me. I remember watching that thinking... 'get a stop here and get the ball back'. You start to consider a 20-7 or even 24-7 lead. And bang. One play and it's a three point game. That was a killer. I'm not sure how much of that was on Pete though or Gus Bradley and the players. Likewise the draw play that potentially cost us three points at the end of the first half. Is that Pete or Bevell/Cable?

    Overall though it's hard to complain too much right now. I remember the road games where it was over at half time. If we'd have won all our road games so far, not sure anyone would've batted an eye lid. We're getting there.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:54 am
  • Largent80 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Ask Earl Thomas. He stated paraphrasing; they could've/should've jumped on them early it would've been a blowout. I'm not the only one who thinks Detroit will cave if bad things occur early.


    We were up 17-7 if that isn't jumping on them then what is. We had them right where you said they would fold and they didn't. WE did, and on defense, not offense.


    Even if people agree that Detroit didn't fold like some thought, the fact is that Carroll went into "super conservative mode" with a lead, just like he always does.........as opposed to what GOOD teams do with a 17-7 lead, go for the jugular.

    Is it cause he still doesn't trust Wilson to not make mistakes? Is it that he thinks his defense is so good that they should be able to hold this sort of a lead? Not sure, only Carroll can answer these questions.

    But it pisses me off that when this team has a lead they go through long conservative stretches of the game (usually the 2nd and 3rd quarters) where they don't step on the other team's throat. It's a loser mentality, and it has to stop.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:54 am
  • IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Somehow, I just can't agree that a team which is one of the best (league leader, even?) at scoring 4th quarter points is mentally soft.


    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Hawks are averaging 5.5 points per game in the 4th quarter. Good for 22nd in the NFL. We're really bad in the 2nd quarter (31st).

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4t ... s-per-game


    I may be missing something, but I think he was saying the Lions are the league leader in 4th quarter scoring?
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:02 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The 3rd and 11 play at 17-7 was key for me. I remember watching that thinking... 'get a stop here and get the ball back'. You start to consider a 20-7 or even 24-7 lead. And bang. One play and it's a three point game. That was a killer. I'm not sure how much of that was on Pete though or Gus Bradley and the players. Likewise the draw play that potentially cost us three points at the end of the first half. Is that Pete or Bevell/Cable?

    Overall though it's hard to complain too much right now. I remember the road games where it was over at half time. If we'd have won all our road games so far, not sure anyone would've batted an eye lid. We're getting there.



    I agree with this fully.

    I feel as though this team is on the verge of consistently winning. We still have mostly 2, and 3rd year players on this roster. The game hasn't slowed down for everyone yet. A lot of the plays that we got killed on were do to over pursuit on Defense and simply being behind a step. Small nuances that 2nd and 3rd year players are just starting to learn. Even our O-line which now has only played 5 games together is starting to come around and play on each others level.

    Pete started from Scratch, 3 years ago. He has hedged his bets knowing that a Defense and running game typically develops faster than a passing game, a passing game which they haven't even started to build around yet, and we still are competitive. These have been some of the funnest games to watch, and that I giv Pete total props for.

    We just haven't clicked yet, maybe we will this year, maybe we wont. I would bet though that given the progression we have seen, its going to be happening, and fast.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:02 pm
  • pehawk wrote:It's on him now, he needs to right this, and soon.

    Even before the offense took steps forwards against NE, the offense could always; run the ball, hit any pattern, could throw long WELL. The defense has the players and tools to play well. Plus, this team ALWAYS plays hard, in every facet of the game.

    Playing hard usually will beat the likes of Detroit. The talent differential should've beaten the Rams. And, the offense seemed uninterested in winning the SF game (based on poor execution).

    I look at a team like Miami, with SO much less, seemingly playing better and just as hard. And, they're winning, ON THE ROAD. So, for all the excuses of how better it is, how much brilliance Pete has shown putting this together, there's no more excuses for not winning.

    Yesterday really pissed me off. That's a mentally soft team the Seahawks lost to. The perfect type of learning road win this teams NEEDS to get.

    I'm appreciative of Pete. But, there's no more room for losses.


    I also have to agree with you on this one. It just pisses me off how we can be out coached in games we should be able to easily win. I really like PC, but he needs to do a reality check on himself. I personally think he needs to really good and experienced coordinators working for him that really know how to scheme against opponents both before and especially during games.

    If this keeps up I do see him on a very hot seat after next year. Even Paul Allen can see that there is something wrong by now.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:07 pm
  • Smoke wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The 3rd and 11 play at 17-7 was key for me. I remember watching that thinking... 'get a stop here and get the ball back'. You start to consider a 20-7 or even 24-7 lead. And bang. One play and it's a three point game. That was a killer. I'm not sure how much of that was on Pete though or Gus Bradley and the players. Likewise the draw play that potentially cost us three points at the end of the first half. Is that Pete or Bevell/Cable?

    Overall though it's hard to complain too much right now. I remember the road games where it was over at half time. If we'd have won all our road games so far, not sure anyone would've batted an eye lid. We're getting there.



    I agree with this fully.

    I feel as though this team is on the verge of consistently winning. We still have mostly 2, and 3rd year players on this roster. The game hasn't slowed down for everyone yet. A lot of the plays that we got killed on were do to over pursuit on Defense and simply being behind a step. Small nuances that 2nd and 3rd year players are just starting to learn. Even our O-line which now has only played 5 games together is starting to come around and play on each others level.

    Pete started from Scratch, 3 years ago. He has hedged his bets knowing that a Defense and running game typically develops faster than a passing game, a passing game which they haven't even started to build around yet, and we still are competitive. These have been some of the funnest games to watch, and that I giv Pete total props for.

    We just haven't clicked yet, maybe we will this year, maybe we wont. I would bet though that given the progression we have seen, its going to be happening, and fast.


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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:09 pm
  • drdiags wrote:
    IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Somehow, I just can't agree that a team which is one of the best (league leader, even?) at scoring 4th quarter points is mentally soft.


    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Hawks are averaging 5.5 points per game in the 4th quarter. Good for 22nd in the NFL. We're really bad in the 2nd quarter (31st).

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4t ... s-per-game


    I may be missing something, but I think he was saying the Lions are the league leader in 4th quarter scoring?


    This is correct and the provided link bears it out.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:12 pm
  • Why haven't they clicked, is my question? The Bronco's clicked, a year after sucking, with the worst QB ever known, while devising new offensive and defensive schemes through the season. This year and last.

    The Dolphins this year are doing more with less. They're younger and less talented - in vastly different systems.

    And it still doesn't change the point that the coaches I mentioned would be winning, period. Lynch topped 100 in SF, Stl and now Detroit, but they're all losses.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:12 pm
  • Pete turned the 2009 Seahawks team into the team you see today, that he claims is still on year 3 out of 4, and people STILL want to throw him under the bus? Even worse, were blaming our offense when they had probably their best game of the year, and it was our DEFENSE that failed to stop the Lions offense TWICE on 3rd down in the redzone with less than a minute left?

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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:17 pm
  • Pstark3 wrote:Pete turned the 2009 Seahawks team into the team you see today


    Improvement doesn't count until it shows up in the wins and loss column. Pete's first year he went 4-4 in the first eight games. This year, same thing.

    Do I think Carroll's infused this team with great young talent? Yes. But like I said, that's all window dressing until it results in wins..........and so far this year, it hasn't.

    Btw, people forget that Carroll is the 2nd highest paid coach in the NFL, only 500k less than Belichick. Do you think he's worth it? If I'm Paul Allen and I'm paying my coach $7,000,000 a year in his 3rd year, I better damn well be seeing some results by now.
    Last edited by Sgt. Largent on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:20 pm
  • Pstark3 wrote:Pete turned the 2009 Seahawks team into the team you see today, that he claims is still on year 3 out of 4, and people STILL want to throw him under the bus? Even worse, were blaming our offense when they had probably their best game of the year, and it was our DEFENSE that failed to stop the Lions offense TWICE on 3rd down in the redzone with less than a minute left?

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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:24 pm
  • Nobody is throwing him under the bus. At least not the OP. He's saying you built this team, now win with it. Seems fair to me. No, he didn't walk into a Harbaugh situation, but he has that much talent NOW. So he should be beating 2-4 teams. Simple as that.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:33 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote: If I'm Paul Allen and I'm paying my coach $7,000,000 a year in his 3rd year, I better damn well be seeing some results by now.

    Even though He and JS have brought in ridiculous amounts of cheap, young talent resulting in us being one of the youngest, most physical up and comers of the NFL? If thats not enough to make you believe PC&JS when they say this is a 4 year plan, probably nothing will.

    Idk about you, but I do NOT want some other coach coming in here and f***ing this thing we have going here up.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:34 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Why haven't they clicked, is my question? The Bronco's clicked, a year after sucking, with the worst QB ever known, while devising new offensive and defensive schemes through the season. This year and last.

    The Dolphins this year are doing more with less. They're younger and less talented - in vastly different systems.

    And it still doesn't change the point that the coaches I mentioned would be winning, period. Lynch topped 100 in SF, Stl and now Detroit, but they're all losses.


    From where I stand, the reason the hawks have instantly clicked is because we are being built for long term success..We are almost there, we just have to let the team mature. There is only so much that Pete can do. It seems like Pete and company are good talent evaluators, and I am guessing that they probably have a very good grip on what our team can and can't do. Im pretty sure that gameplanning is done in line with understanding of what our team is and isn't good at. We have been in everygame, and every game has looked almost the same. Ever notice that? We have been the controllers of the tempo. That is all Pete's doing, and save for one or two plays swinging the wrong way in losses we could have won every game.

    That is a far cry from being blown out by 20 or 30 points most everygame. That is progression.

    Bottom line, once the offense starts showing maturity its going to be hard to beat us, and we will start having those 20 to 30 point wins.

    It just takes time.
    Last edited by Smoke on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:35 pm
  • I am going to go on the record and say 90% of the fans (and a higher percentage here) want nothing of the sort (switching up head coaches). They just want to see Pete perform as a coach as he is capable of and that his players turn the corner.... just as he did in his 3rd year at USC. You saw a real significant transformation. We want to see that similar change happen here. We've got the talent. Let's see it happen.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:36 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:I am going to go on the record and say 90% of the fans (and a higher percentage here) want nothing of the sort (switching up head coaches). They just want to see Pete perform as a coach as he is capable of and that his players turn the corner.... just as he did in his 3rd year at USC. You saw a real significant transformation. We want to see that similar change happen here. We've got the talent. Let's see it happen.


    Yes, this is what I think.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:36 pm
  • Smoke wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Why haven't they clicked, is my question? The Bronco's clicked, a year after sucking, with the worst QB ever known, while devising new offensive and defensive schemes through the season. This year and last.

    The Dolphins this year are doing more with less. They're younger and less talented - in vastly different systems.

    And it still doesn't change the point that the coaches I mentioned would be winning, period. Lynch topped 100 in SF, Stl and now Detroit, but they're all losses.


    From where I stand, the reason the hawks have instantly clicked is because we are being built for long term success..We are almost there, we just have to let the team mature. There is only so much that Pete can do. It seems like Pete and company are good talent evaluators, and I am guessing that they probably have a very good grip on what our team can and can't do. Im pretty sure that gameplanning is done in line with understanding of what our team is and isn't good at. We have been in everygame, and every game and everygame has looked almost the same. Ever notice that? We have been the controllers of the tempo. That is all Pete's doing, and save for one or two plays swinging the wrong way in losses we could have won every game.

    That is a far cry from being blown out by 20 or 30 points most everygame. That is progression.

    Bottom line, once the offense starts showing maturity its going to be hard to beat us, and we will start having those 20 to 30 point wins.

    It just takes time.


    GREAT GAWD DAMN POST.

    Logically I want to nod yes, emotionally I want to cry and say "but other teams dont have to rebuild!"
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:39 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Improvement doesn't count until it shows up in the wins and loss column. Pete's first year he went 4-4 in the first eight games. This year, same thing.


    That's a very narrow minded way of looking at things. This team is a damn site better than the 2010 version, and I'd argue the 2011 version too. And that improvement should be celebrated. You don't suddenly wake up one day and become a contender. It can be a slow process. Especially when you have a rookie QB and a lot of young players. To ignore the improvement because the team is 'only' 4-4 at the midway point is OTT.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:40 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:I am going to go on the record and say 90% of the fans (and a higher percentage here) want nothing of the sort (switching up head coaches). They just want to see Pete perform as a coach as he is capable of and that his players turn the corner.... just as he did in his 3rd year at USC. You saw a real significant transformation. We want to see that similar change happen here. We've got the talent. Let's see it happen.


    I feel like our offense is right at the start of the transformation. Look at week 1 Russel, vs's week 8 Russel. Look at the Offensive line protection. This thing is on the verge, just like our D last year around this time was right on the verge. These losses have been some of the most encouraging losses I can remember in the history of watching the seahawks.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:44 pm
  • Lions were 12 of 16 on third down. This has been happening ALL DAMNED SEASON!! Good coaching corrects these types of things. When are you going to get a handle on it Pete? It's been half the season now and NOTHING has changed in this area.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:45 pm
  • Pstark3 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote: If I'm Paul Allen and I'm paying my coach $7,000,000 a year in his 3rd year, I better damn well be seeing some results by now.

    Even though He and JS have brought in ridiculous amounts of cheap, young talent resulting in us being one of the youngest, most physical up and comers of the NFL? If thats not enough to make you believe PC&JS when they say this is a 4 year plan, probably nothing will.


    Don't fool yourself, the Hawks currently only have $7,000,000 of cap space, that's nowhere near the bottom.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... -nfl-teams

    New England, Green Bay, Broncos, Vikings and Bengals all have more cap space than us.

    Sure Carroll has found some diamonds in the rough in the late draft rounds. But he's also given out HUGE contracts to players like Rice, Miller, Lynch, Mebane, Jones and Clemons.........and guess what, all these "cheap, young talented players" are going to be free agents soon.......and guess what good free agents want? That's right more money. Are all these players going to be around for your 4 year plan?
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:45 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Improvement doesn't count until it shows up in the wins and loss column. Pete's first year he went 4-4 in the first eight games. This year, same thing.


    That's a very narrow minded way of looking at things. This team is a damn site better than the 2010 version, and I'd argue the 2011 version too. And that improvement should be celebrated. You don't suddenly wake up one day and become a contender. It can be a slow process. Especially when you have a rookie QB and a lot of young players. To ignore the improvement because the team is 'only' 4-4 at the midway point is OTT.


    I was going to respond to that bit, but you handled it much more diplomatically than I wanted to. Kudos, English.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:49 pm
  • I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.

    I like Pete. I want him to succeed but there may be the possibility that he is good at building an NFL team more then coaching one.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:50 pm
  • I just don't agree with the perception that the Lions are a mentally soft team. We were beaten by a good football team. Simple as that.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:52 pm
  • Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.


    Singletary was in charge of a shambolic mess. He was so unhinged, there was no way he should've ever been given the gig on a full time basis.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:54 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.


    Singletary was in charge of a shambolic mess. He was so unhinged, there was no way he should've ever been given the gig on a full time basis.


    I understand that but he was still the coach of a very talented team. It took another coach to get them to perform
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:56 pm
  • Tech Worlds wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.


    Singletary was in charge of a shambolic mess. He was so unhinged, there was no way he should've ever been given the gig on a full time basis.


    I understand that but he was still the coach of a very talented team. It took another coach to get them to perform


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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:57 pm
  • SmokinHawk wrote:I just don't agree with the perception that the Lions are a mentally soft team. We were beaten by a good football team. Simple as that.


    Good football teams don't come into this game 2-4. Simple as that.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:58 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:[quote="Tech Worlds"]I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.


    Singletary was in charge of a shambolic mess. He was so unhinged, there was no way he should've ever been given the gig on a full time basis.


    I understand that but he was still the coach of a very talented team. It took another coach to get them to perform


    A talented team built built with multiple high picks which is now in its prime (and at the risk of falling off because of their age).[/quote]

    I don't want to hijack the thread but I don't think they are really that old.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:59 pm
  • Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.

    I like Pete. I want him to succeed but there may be the possibility that he is good at building an NFL team more then coaching one.


    Well... we have Tom Cable on staff right now. He can coach a non-talented team to wins. I don't see why he couldn't do it with the talent we have. Gruden is also available. Do I want either thing happening? Not unless Pete decides he's done and just up and retires, but there are good options out there. Just so long as it isn't Mike Martz.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:01 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.

    I like Pete. I want him to succeed but there may be the possibility that he is good at building an NFL team more then coaching one.


    Well... we have Tom Cable on staff right now. He can coach a non-talented team to wins. I don't see why he couldn't do it with the talent we have. Gruden is also available. Do I want either thing happening? Not unless Pete decides he's done and just up and retires, but there are good options out there. Just so long as it isn't Mike Martz.

    You said "Good" options Shark. No need to mention Martz after that.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:06 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:A talented team built built with multiple high picks which is now in its prime (and at the risk of falling off because of their age).


    I think that's what people often forget when they start saying, "OMG the FO has had almost 3 full YEARS to turn the team around! Why aren't we blowing teams out left and right yet?!"

    The 49ers had 8 straight seasons without a winning record, burning through 3 head coaches, and racking up high draft picks left and right. They had 6 top-12 picks over that timeframe (and don't forget the high 2nd, 3rd, etc. picks they had, too). It took years of good drafting and time for players to develop before all of that paid off - and it still required a HC who knew how to take advantage of all the talent.

    I don't know if Carroll has the gameday chops to get us a Lombardi. But I do know that genuine, ground-up rebuilds take time, which is unfortunate for those fans whose expectations are aimed a bit too high (in my view).

    (And please bear in mind that I said "expectations" rather than "desires/goals/etc." Of course the goal should always be a championship, but realistically, we're not quite ready to truly challenge for one.)
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:20 pm
  • I think you're short-changing me a bit Vols.

    I understand, completely, the rebuild that was required and the job that's been done. My frustration is the fact I've seen more accomplished with less. And right now, this team can run the ball, throw deep, is respectable in other aspects of the passing game, has a talented and good defense and its .500.

    I've seen teams win with less than that, period. I'm happy and understanding of the work Pete and staff have done, truly I am, but its time to win now. Teams with less find ways to win. Dolphins, Steelers to name 2 less talented teams winning now, with less.

    Just because I'm a Seahawks fan, doesn't mean I need to have less expectations than other fans. If this team was in; Pitt or NY it wouldn't be acceptable, period. Because we're Seahawks fans we need to accept 4 year rebuild plans, that wouldn't fly in more established football towns?

    Fact is; Harbaugh, Coughlin, Bellicheck, Tomlin, McCarthy WOULD have winning records with this team. That's what I want Pete to become. And, I think he can.

    But this nonsense that Seattle has to judge differently than other NFL cities is just that, nonsense.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:26 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:I hope Pete Carroll is not our Mike Singletary.

    A coach of a very talented team that can't get them over the hump. Then another guy comes in and wins with the existing talent.

    I like Pete. I want him to succeed but there may be the possibility that he is good at building an NFL team more then coaching one.


    Well... we have Tom Cable on staff right now. He can coach a non-talented team to wins. I don't see why he couldn't do it with the talent we have. Gruden is also available. Do I want either thing happening? Not unless Pete decides he's done and just up and retires, but there are good options out there. Just so long as it isn't Mike Martz.

    You said "Good" options Shark. No need to mention Martz after that.


    Haha. Right you are my friend. Right you are. Thanks for the good laugh. Sadly though, there are still people out there that think Martz can coach. I mean... fox thinks enough of the guy to let him call games. Make it stop. Make it stop!!! ;)
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:26 pm
  • Probably too late to add anything meaningful to the discussion, but I would blame Sherman for the bomb to Young. He took his eyes off the WR completely and lost track of him.

    What I would blame Pete for are the scheme issues that allow teams to throw 5 yard passes on 3rd and 10 and still get the 1st downs. I'm reasonably sure those plays are scheme issues and not talent issues- it's not like the lions were breaking tackles to get those extra 5-10 yards after the catch. The Lions did their homework and exploited the short-middle just like Arizona, St. Louis, Green Bay, and New England did.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:27 pm
  • pe is correct. Unless you find our losses to lame-ass Arizona, weak-ass St Louis, punk-ass San Fran, and pussy-ass kitty's acceptable. In which case, you see us as over-achieving this year. And I can't hang with that.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:32 pm
  • They should go bandit on 3rd and long, with Kam sniffing out the run. Okay, maybe not, but mix it up and get aggressive for the pass.

    The Young TD was on Sherman/Chancellor. According to Pete, they relaxed, thinking the play was going somewhere else and got burned. Great pocket move by Stafford to step away from the sack attempt coming from behind him and delivering a good strike.

    Coughlin was almost ran out of NY before he became the man with the plan. What helped him was Eli finally getting it as a starting QB. One could hope that Pete, for all his warts, can become that stabilizing force for the Seahawks. I'm Still In!
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:34 pm
  • I'm still in too doc. And, actually, I have a feeling Wilson will cover all Pete's warts as much as Eli covers Sweater Vests (Coughlins).
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:35 pm
  • kearly wrote:Probably too late to add anything meaningful to the discussion, but I would blame Sherman for the bomb to Young. He took his eyes off the WR completely and lost track of him.

    What I would blame Pete for are the scheme issues that allow teams to throw 5 yard passes on 3rd and 10 and still get the 1st downs. I'm reasonably sure those plays are scheme issues and not talent issues- it's not like the lions were breaking tackles to get those extra 5-10 yards after the catch. The Lions did their homework and exploited the short-middle just like Arizona, St. Louis, Green Bay, and New England did.


    Your voice of reason is appreciated Kip, however it is like the tree that falls in the forest. If no one is there to hear it, does it make any noise?
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:40 pm
  • bestfightstory wrote:pe is correct. Unless you find our losses to lame-ass Arizona, weak-ass St Louis, punk-ass San Fran, and pussy-ass kitty's acceptable. In which case, you see us as over-achieving this year. And I can't hang with that.


    I'd say right along with this... if you can beat New England and Green Bay then you have NO reason to lose to Detroit. The way the league is now with parity and all, you're going to lose a couple you shouldn't have. But not ALL of them. Losing to Arizona was bad enough, but week 1. We understand. Where was the improvement in St. Louis? That game of all games should have whipped the team into a frenzy where there was no way in hell they walk into Detroit and get beat by a Lions team that is worse than the Rams.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:41 pm
  • These are different times in the NFL. Players have much more power and are subsequently/consequently much more vocal in voicing their displeasure(s). I am referring to comments made by E.T. Comments that I agree with. OTOH, aside from Coughlin and Bill, there's not many active coaches more old school than Pete. Emphasis on the word school, as his success has predominately been in the college ranks. College coaches are not known for taking a lot of input from their players, so it will be interesting to see how Pete handles this. He, being a bit more with the times than most his age, may react in a positive manner and I hope he does because he can't expect the D to win every frikin' game, week after week. This week we had a mild D meltdown, one that a bit more offense should have overcome...but Pete and his obsession about TOs and clock management (!?!) sorta' let this one get away.

    Next week, IMO, will be the biggest test of this season for this young squad. Someone pointed out the team may be losing confidence and questioning the plan. The same thing is happening across the lake with Price and Sark. Coincidence? I dunno...but I do know the offense looked improved this week and showed that the building blocks are in place. IF Pete wants to really win games, he will have to adjust his own pattern, turn this team lose, and win or lose, we'll know much better what we have. I'm keeping my glass half-full and suspect both sides of the ball will show up on Sunday, which would be the first time this season. GO PETE!! GO HAWKS!!
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:42 pm
  • Smoke wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The 3rd and 11 play at 17-7 was key for me. I remember watching that thinking... 'get a stop here and get the ball back'. You start to consider a 20-7 or even 24-7 lead. And bang. One play and it's a three point game. That was a killer. I'm not sure how much of that was on Pete though or Gus Bradley and the players. Likewise the draw play that potentially cost us three points at the end of the first half. Is that Pete or Bevell/Cable?

    Overall though it's hard to complain too much right now. I remember the road games where it was over at half time. If we'd have won all our road games so far, not sure anyone would've batted an eye lid. We're getting there.



    I agree with this fully.

    I feel as though this team is on the verge of consistently winning. We still have mostly 2, and 3rd year players on this roster. The game hasn't slowed down for everyone yet. A lot of the plays that we got killed on were do to over pursuit on Defense and simply being behind a step. Small nuances that 2nd and 3rd year players are just starting to learn. Even our O-line which now has only played 5 games together is starting to come around and play on each others level.

    Pete started from Scratch, 3 years ago. He has hedged his bets knowing that a Defense and running game typically develops faster than a passing game, a passing game which they haven't even started to build around yet, and we still are competitive. These have been some of the funnest games to watch, and that I giv Pete total props for.

    We just haven't clicked yet, maybe we will this year, maybe we wont. I would bet though that given the progression we have seen, its going to be happening, and fast.


    I woud have to agree. It reminds me of the way someone described Norv Turner coaching the Chargers as driving a Lambo and just crashing it into a ditch, whereas Pete and Co. have kept the RPMs under 2K when they need to mash on the gas!
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:42 pm
  • pehawk wrote:I'm still in too doc. And, actually, I have a feeling Wilson will cover all Pete's warts as much as Eli covers Sweater Vests (Coughlins).


    You called that yesterday and I agree. Wilson better get it done quickly though because the winds of change are starting to pick up. Paul Allen has shown in the past that he doesn't have a problem knocking a guy's ego down a few notches. His football consultants could suggest he demand Pete replace his OC/DC if things get too far off-track.

    Something tells me if Pete resigned rather than be forced to make a football move in his staff, John Schneider gets more power. Paul may feel secure in the club's financial management that JS and Idzik have handled. Pete goes, Big Red, Chancellor, Browner, Clemons and Irvin are gone in a year or so (with Clemons, he probably is gone after next year anyway).
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:42 pm
  • pehawk wrote:I think you're short-changing me a bit Vols.

    I understand, completely, the rebuild that was required and the job that's been done. My frustration is the fact I've seen more accomplished with less. And right now, this team can run the ball, throw deep, is respectable in other aspects of the passing game, has a talented and good defense and its .500.

    I've seen teams win with less than that, period. I'm happy and understanding of the work Pete and staff have done, truly I am, but its time to win now. Teams with less find ways to win. Dolphins, Steelers to name 2 less talented teams winning now, with less.

    Just because I'm a Seahawks fan, doesn't mean I need to have less expectations than other fans. If this team was in; Pitt or NY it wouldn't be acceptable, period. Because we're Seahawks fans we need to accept 4 year rebuild plans, that wouldn't fly in more established football towns?

    Fact is; Harbaugh, Coughlin, Bellicheck, Tomlin, McCarthy WOULD have winning records with this team. That's what I want Pete to become. And, I think he can.

    But this nonsense that Seattle has to judge differently than other NFL cities is just that, nonsense.


    Nah, I'm not targeting you here. There are plenty of folks here who can discuss this team and its personnel/coaches without going nuclear, and I wouldn't count this thread on par with those that are just "Fire everyone!" in tone, even if I might disagree with some of the points.

    The reason that Pitt or NY wouldn't accept a 4-year rebuild is because the identity of those teams has been set in stone for DECADES. The fans of those teams go nuclear when their teams depart from their identity of a strong defense, efficient (and sometimes explosive) offense, stable coaching. And that's why they never have to go through complete rebuilds - they have a certain kind of player they can target for that identity, and they've been doing it for so long that they are skilled at it and don't tend to have the roster turnover like we experienced in 2010.

    Seattle's changed identities multiple times now, and each time, it requires a full rebuild as the team searches for players that can fulfill the new regime's concept. It happened clearly with Holmgren, and the team was mediocre for longer under the Walrus than it's been under Carroll (remember, we didn't get to the playoffs a second time under Holmy until his 5th season). It's happened again with Carroll, and frankly, I'd love it if the identity he's put in place was our identity until the end of time. I love smashmouth offense and dominant defense (and Sunday's result aside, that's what our team is now).

    I also think it takes more time to build a team that will be a perennial contender rather than a flash in the pan, because it requires more than just adding a handful of players and selling out for a season or two. It requires putting a system into place that will not only change the culture and identity of the team, but also look down the road to identify how to make sure that once the team achieves contender status, it's not only for a year or two, but for a decade and more. Obviously, that's just my opinion, but I don't think I'm wrong.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:54 pm
  • I thought the Lions game played out like we might expect; a 10 am road game against a team with a great passing offense and a terrible secondary. It came down to the end, and ultimately they made one more play than we did in the last two minutes. I am not happy about the loss but I am not as surprised by it as some of you seem to be. We were underdogs for a reason and it seems unrealistic to be expecting the road underdog to win by 30 points. The one thing we have been consistent at is underperforming the spread on the road and beating it at home.

    The Titus Young play was huge but how can you not give them any credit for that at all? Third and long play call to their burner who got a clean release and outran a good corner. There is a double standard on this forum. Most posters are besides themselves when any other fan base or national source is dismissive to our players, and yet a lot of the posters in this thread are constantly dismissive towards other teams and players. Sad but true; Titus Young has more trade value than any receiver on the Seahawks.

    Dismissing the Lions based on their record is pretty funny. Do you really give a 4 loss team no chance at home? That speaks poorly for the 4 loss Seahawks at home against the Vikings then. Or is just other teams that you can boil down to their record and ignore everything else?
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:37 pm
  • I will reserve judgment on whether this season was a success, until the end of the year. 4-4 is about where I thought the team would be, realistically. This team will take a big jump in the second half of the season, much like last year. I don't see it being out of the question to win 6-7 of our last 8, and roll into the playoffs with a head of steam.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:29 pm
  • HawksFTW wrote:I will reserve judgment on whether this season was a success, until the end of the year. 4-4 is about where I thought the team would be, realistically. This team will take a big jump in the second half of the season, much like last year. I don't see it being out of the question to win 6-7 of our last 8, and roll into the playoffs with a head of steam.


    Yup. That's what the Giants did both of their Superbowl years.....got hot at the right time. I'd love to see us do that, and it's what Pete has a penchant for doing.

    Still like the training wheels to come off Wilson. I think he can handle it.
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Re: It's Pete time...
Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:28 am
  • I sure hope for Pete's sake we don't lose anymore. Don't want to see you fire him.
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