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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:58 pm 
* NET Curmudgeon *
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Largent80 wrote:
Really. I don't see coaching as a problem.

Players are supposed to make plays, and when they don't ....that is coaching?

Sorry...not true.

Yes and no. Execution on any given play is on the players. Consistent execution, or patterns of execuation, are on the coaches. Scheme is on the coaches.

And something isn't right.

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Last edited by BlueTalon on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
At some point we have to start winning more then we lose.

That's Pete's job. If he can't then they will take it away. And they would be justified to do so.


Thanks, Dom. You hit it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Did anyone else wonder what was up with the running play with 12 sec left in the second quarter? Seems like it screwed us out of 3 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:15 pm 
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I think they thought (as Holmgren always did) that the draw play is worth at least 6 or 7 yards as it is supposed to catch teams off guard, as it was an OBVIOUS pass situation. Unfortunately the team seems to be tipping plays in that situation as the draw fools nobody.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:18 pm 
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No one has a crystal ball for this season. We could go on a win streak to end it for all we know. I think it's a bit premature to be jumping to these kinds of conclusions when it's only week 8. There's no telling how the record comes out until all the games are played and all the chips are down. No offense to the OP intended.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Bakergirl wrote:
No one has a crystal ball for this season. We could go on a win streak to end it for all we know. I think it's a bit premature to be jumping to these kinds of conclusions when it's only week 8. There's no telling how the record comes out until all the games are played and all the chips are down. No offense to the OP intended.


Perfectly acceptable response...

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:27 pm 
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My random ideas on Pete as HC.

He has implemented some unique concepts on defense that were un-heard of. But the recent losses and earlier games has exposed a vulnerability in the defense that has to be plugged. He seems to have a good feel for player development and procurement. The offense has been given an identity running the ball that I am proud of but teams are starting to take it away. His QB is getting better which may allow him to keep the offense from being minimized.

He appears to have gotten the penalties in check and there are positive points to note with the team.

He isn't in the league of a Bellichick but he could be seen as a Cowher if he can get over the hump. I saw this team as 9-7 and that is still my thought. It is a shame that two winnable games the past two weeks slipped away but I don't see this as a disaster. Until the team can go on the road and win more than 50% they will be competitive at home and a nice adversary on the road with very minimal results.

Depending on how the team ends the season, Pete could be on notice next season. Would be a shock to me if anything happens to him after this season but again, depends on how the season plays out.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Gut feeling says we can't keep playing to be in close games and hope for the best.

Looking at our roster, maybe that's the best we can do with what we have.

A piece or two here and there, my gut says we can turn the tables and play to win consistently next year. If a few guys step up and "get it," maybe even later this year.

I just keep thinking how utterly, maddeningly hopeless this entire team was a few years ago. No excuses for what they are doing now. Just saying, expecting to win every week is a serious improvement over the 2006-2009 years. Pete & John have a whole lot to do with that.

To revamp this team the way they have is impressive. To completely kill the demons of the past they will have to put all the pieces in place to win on the road and take control of the division, first and foremost.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:42 pm 
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I don't have a problem with this at all. To me, I compare the players we had in 2011 and our replacements.

RW vs. TJack?
Hawthorne vs. Wagner?
2011 Rice & Tate vs. 2012 version
2011 TEs vs. 2012 version
Pass rush improved?

To me, I see improvement regardless of what the record says. And, the team has 2 rookies starting in key positions on both sides of the ball, so I see rookie mistakes/breakdowns during the game, but the potential is there.

My expectations were modest given those circumstances, but I see a ton of upside for the rest of the year and beyond.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:56 pm 
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I think 8 games is enough sample size to determine if the trends are due to coaching or execution. And it's starting to look like it's coaching, especially on 3rd and long. Our players are not that bad.

That said, I still think we can get over the hump. Just tempering my expectations a bit, and will go along with what Schneider said about this being a four-year plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:04 pm 
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This team went from a very bad division at 7-9 to a easier schedule at 7-9 to a legitimate contender at 4-4 after 8 grueling weeks.

He has built one of the best secondaries in the league, a QB who, in his rookie season, looks like a solid NFL QB but is still pieces away from being great.

10-6 is not too hard to think is possible. And even 8-8, while disappointing, would still be an improvement and considering our schedule, respectable.

How this season finishes will determine if he is on the hot seat next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:27 pm 
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edogg23 wrote:
Did anyone else wonder what was up with the running play with 12 sec left in the second quarter? Seems like it screwed us out of 3 points.


Playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Sark pulled the same crap last nite but in the end, Wilcox's defense was hungrier than *Pete's was today.

* Yes, Pete's play calling was more to blame than the defense itself, but you can't put it all on Pete. Not at this level. The D is the strength of this team and they lost this one today. They are a young unit and got a taste of humility. Let's hope they remember this feeling for a long time to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:35 pm 
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I don't really know what this thread is about.

You want to assess him? Ok, go ahead. We do that every week, Pete has been criticized for bonehead moves in personnel (Charlie) and on the field (see: 61 yd FG attempt at the Clink last year among others). I don't think Pete is beyond reproach, and I don't think that's how he's been treated.

So you're saying put him in the crosshairs but not in the hot seat? What does that even mean? I just don't understand the difference between these abstract concepts. If you mean judge him for his decisions...ok....that happens week in and week out. If you mean consider replacing him, in which case crosshairs and hot seat are the same thing, then I don't think it's time for that yet. It doesn't sound like you're advocating replacing him this offseason, so then what are we talking about?

All I can take from this whole thing is that you want to judge and criticize Pete week to week, not think about replacing him this year, but be open to the idea of replacing him after next year if things don't go well? That's where everybody on this board is at, I think, you just used the word crosshairs.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Damn right he needs to be looked at, I look at team like the Dolphins, doing more with less. Today was atrocious, that's a soft team they let hang around then beat them.

I'm not saying fire Pete, but his job is to get them over the hump. Its hasn't happened yet, and it may waste another year. Rice was kinda a bonehead today, Tate last week, Breno week before, etc and for 2 weeks straight our Defense gets worked via scheme.

Frustrating.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:37 pm 
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7 and 9 seasons each year are not good enough for me.

He gets paid to win. I am becoming tired of waiting.

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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:59 pm 
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The fact that we're here having this conversation means the team is headed in the right direction.

For comparison sake, go take a look at 2001 Seattle Seahawks under 3rd year HC Mike Holmgren. Now tell me, which team would you rather have? The fact that we're coming out every week expecting to win is a positive. Just two years ago we were expecting to lose these games. SF turned around so quickly because they got a football coach that knows what the crap he's doing with a football team. MIA is playing way over their heads right now. I think Pete gets his 5 years at the least, the last time Paul Allen hand picked his head coach it was Holmgren and he got the full contract and then some even though the team consistently under-performed until 2005. Paul genuinely seems to like Pete Carroll and as long as Pete and John can show any sort of improvement and can quantify why they have their jobs then Paul is going to let them run with their plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Gotta put Pete in the cross hairs
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:07 pm 
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I agree. The niners lost the the vikes 24-13 with a 17-3 halftime score. They also lost the NYG 26-3 and the score didn't really show how they were dominated. and that was a home game.

i don't want a so-so team, I want divison amd conference champions, but I think this team is on the verge.


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