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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:44 am 
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tl;dr

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:10 am 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.
Wilson is way more flamboyant, and more athletic, but the missing open Receivers ( was TJacks problem also) isn't just a problem that can be dismissed as- ONLY- the poor O-line protection,,You can't expect them to stop the Defensive attack forever.
Who really knows where we'd be, had Carroll decided on Flynn instead of Wilson--WE WILL NEVER KNOW, but that doesn't make right the Wilson supporters (myself included) in getting snotty with someone with a different opinion.
This place would be boring as hell if everybody agreed 100% of the time with every single issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:16 am 
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scutterhawk wrote:
MontanaHawk05 wrote:
That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.
Wilson is way more flamboyant, and more athletic, but the missing open Receivers ( was TJacks problem also) isn't just a problem that can be dismissed as- ONLY- the poor O-line protection,,You can't expect them to stop the Defensive attack forever.
Who really knows where we'd be, had Carroll decided on Flynn instead of Wilson--WE WILL NEVER KNOW, but that doesn't make right the Wilson supporters (myself included) in getting snotty with someone with a different opinion.
This place would be boring as hell if everybody agreed 100% of the time with every single issue.


Being able to have a civil conversation with somebody who has an opposing view point is one thing. Grinding your same point over and over and over again while being condescending, thinking you know better than the coaches, and acting like you know something you don't and anybody else who doesn't agree is wrong or stupid or a homer or a fanboy are totally other things. Those things make this forum less enjoyable for the rest of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:19 am 
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I love the "poor us" argument. Don't put yourself out there over and over again, week after week and only bitching when theres an off game and you won't get scrutinized so heavily.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:22 am 
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He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:23 am 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


You didn't want your feelings hurt over a message board? c'mon brah.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:25 am 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


This is where you guys are wrong and why you get the reaction you do. There is nothing irrational about supporting the players that Coach has decided to put out on the field. I would argue, however, that it is irrational to bitch and moan and complain consistently about it on a message board where your words and feelings mean nothing to anybody but yourself and have absolutely no bearing on the actual situation. It doesn't matter if I support RW, it's not my fault that Coach doesn't see things the way you do. Thinking that way IS irrational.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:26 am 
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scutterhawk wrote:
MontanaHawk05 wrote:
That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.


How do you know about Flynn's style? I don't think I would feel comfortable saying anything about a QB till I have seen 2 seasons of starts. Flynn has only started 15 games in 9 years. I dunno....

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:29 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


You didn't want your feelings hurt over a message board? c'mon brah.


I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:37 am 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:40 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


Fresh facts? Are you kidding? The minute the game ended I posted my displeasure in wilsons performance, and the first post back I got was suck rocks. I presented fresh arguments and it was still totally discarded and attacked

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


Fresh facts? Are you kidding? The minute the game ended I posted my displeasure in wilsons performance, and the first post back I got was suck rocks. I presented fresh arguments and it was still totally discarded and attacked


What fresh facts did you bring to the table?

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:45 am 
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Shane Falco wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:47 am 
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I stated that Wilson had under 20 yards throwing which was unacceptable for an nfl QB

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am 
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Which I believe is a FACT. Tell me the last tIme a team won with under 20 yards passing in the second half

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Shane Falco wrote:
Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I stated that Wilson had under 20 yards throwing which was unacceptable for an nfl QB


Blew my mind. I'm changing my opinion. START FLYNN!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:53 am 
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Shane Falco wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Shane Falco wrote:
Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:57 am 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Shane Falco wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:

We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:58 am 
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Shane Falco wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Shane Falco wrote:
Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?


That's not a card. It is in fact the way of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Shane Falco wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?


Its the only card we need right now until those questioning the position give us something to think about.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:01 pm 
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And FWIW, I am currently a Wilson supporter. I think he has shown some growth these last 2 weeks. I have always liked Wilson and supported him, I wanted them to start Flynn at the start of the season and still feel that way but once they made their bed and as long as Wilson continues to show growth and improvement I'm behind it.

But this conversation was about one side being accused of redundancy when it actuallity it comes from both sides. It truely is more about people not wanting to hear about opinions that don't coincide with their own.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:02 pm 
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I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Ok, this conversation is beyond ridiculous now. I'm done with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Shane Falco wrote:
And FWIW, I am currently a Wilson supporter. I think he has shown some growth these last 2 weeks. I have always liked Wilson and supported him, I wanted them to start Flynn at the start of the season and still feel that way but once they made their bed and as long as Wilson continues to show growth and improvement I'm behind it.

But this conversation was about one side being accused of redundancy when it actuallity it comes from both sides. It truely is more about people not wanting to hear about opinions that don't coincide with their own.


It is redundant, but the "poor me" stuff is ridiculous, no one out here with pitchforks for anyone with a questioning view

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:05 pm 
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seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards


Well what's stopping you? Write a letter! Make a phone call! Right this terrible injustice!

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:08 pm 
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So should they all preface their posts with Dear Pete ?

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards


Well what's stopping you? Write a letter! Make a phone call! Right this terrible injustice!


Sarcasm is the tool of someone who has run out of things to say .

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:13 pm 
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When Wilson was named the starter, I said I'd give him an 6-8 game grace period. Those first 6 games, he hasn't lived up to expectations but he's shown improvement. And that's the key. His overthrows, underthrows and other fundamentals have improved but still not where it needs to be. He still needs to be able to make multiple reads, and hit his check downs. I like his "go for broke" mentality on each down, but I also like high percentage of completions. His high risk, high reward style is not sustainable and will be easy to scheme and defend against. Yes, the coaches need to put him in better situations also.

Against the 9ers, we knew that he was going to take a step back, but throwing all stats out the window, since stats alone don't tell the whole story, he didn't do anything terrible to lose the starting job at this point either. That was probably one of his better games despite the horrid stats.

For the people arguing that the coaches are all-knowing and how dare fans question their decisions - Charlie Whitehurst debunks your whole argument. Coaches make mistakes too.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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Great original post. Read the whole thing and I often give up on long post's.

I have to agree with pretty much every point and the immediate negative responses only solidified my opinion having brought absolutely nothing new to the conversation while repeating the mantra of others saying the same things over and over and over again.

Love Montana bashing your post while admitting he didn't even finish it. Comic gold right there.

I find it funny how some of these posters were bashing Flynn before we even signed him and have obviously stuck to that opinion even though the offense has struggled probably ten times worse than any of them would have ever guessed. There is personal agenda dictating many of their posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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No team ever has, or ever should, make franchise-altering decisions based on the possibility that other star players might get injured. That's just not a stable strategy.

Besides, this team is far younger and deeper than 2005's. Hutch and Alexander were never the whole story behind that team's collapse.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:42 pm 
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I am a pro wilson guy and i voted for Flynn in that poll. But i still don't think Flynn brings anything more outstanding to the table than wilson. 30th ranked offense? Well only thing that can happen is that they get better. I am not freaking out about to much from the SF game besides the drops. Wilson's INT was pretty much a punt but i still was not happy about throwing it into triple coverage. Probably the worst decision i seen him make. All in all i do believe this offense will hit their stride. I look for the biggest jump to made after the bye week. Go Hawks.

As for being banned. Well i have been banned for telling a Mod in PMs that i didn't really give a shit about his opinion and to quit wasting his time talking to me. But it didn't matter because i went out to sea for 3 weeks the day after that lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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The Wilson gestapo on here is pretty damn funny.

Pretty much agree completely with the post.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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Wilson gestapo

HAHA Loved that!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
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russtapo ?

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:55 pm 
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The funny part about the poll is there were likely 90% of the 20 that voted for Jackson just voting that way because they suspected the results of the poll would not favor Wilson in some light or another.

At least I hope that is the case because if 20% of .Net really believes that Jackson would have been better then they must think Carroll and Schneider are retarded regarding the QB position. Why else would you commit a minimum of 10 Mill and then trade away (for next to nothing) a guy who gives you a batter chance to win?

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:31 pm 
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I love that rooting for the starting QB to succeed is a bad thing now.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
tl;dr

Me too. Besides, I can infer what was said in the OP by the discussion that followed.

Synopsis: He's angry about something.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards


Well what's stopping you? Write a letter! Make a phone call! Right this terrible injustice!

So what is the purpose of this forum then if not to discuss our opinions about the Seahawks? Up to and including if we think the QB you're currently teabagging should be benched? Sorry, but your response is vapid.

RichNHanson wrote:
I find it funny how some of these posters were bashing Flynn before we even signed him and have obviously stuck to that opinion even though the offense has struggled probably ten times worse than any of them would have ever guessed. There is personal agenda dictating many of their posts.

The irony to me is that I was one of the first and most vocal criticizers of Flynn when we signed him. Said his passes are "Kilmeresque" (loved Billy Kilmer but those were ugly, ugly tosses he made) Said he wasn't all that accurate. And I was really excited about Wilson. Said I thought the kid could be the next Jim Zorn...and I still hope he can. He's got talent.

But while I think Wilson has all the potential in the world to be our QBOTF and I really don't think Flynn will be - but it's possible. He may be every bit as good as he looked vs Detroit - the bottom line for me is that I don't think that Flynn needs as much polish as Wilson does. Wilson has so much more to learn. Making reads is Flynn's strength, even Pete said so. The things Wilson has to learn lead to rookie mistakes and cost games. Flynns shortcomings have nothing to do with his inexperience. If he throws an INT it's because he makes his decisions SO quickly. Flynn would have, IMO, given us the best chance to win right now.

It's just my opinion and that's the whole point of this forum isn't it? A lot of people are going to be expressing their displeasure at Wilson if he doesn't get this offense clicking and it would be wise for the Wilson supporters to have a thick skin about it and not attack everyone expressing their opinion around here.

You Wilson supporters want an argument that is respectful and can silence pro Flynn players? So you don't have to be so rude all the time? Here you go:

Wilson HAS done enough to get us to 6-1, maybe even 7-0. If Braylon doesn't drop a pass he should have easily made, we beat Arizona. If the refs see Pete calling timeout and the Rams don't get that fake FG play off, we're driving for a FG at the end of the game and maybe we win that one. If Turbin catches a ball laid right into his hands we beat the niners.

We SHOULD be at least 6-1, 2-1 in the division and none of that is Wilson's fault.

See? A reasonable argument that is better than "suck rocks" or banning a guy.

Personally, it's too late to start Flynn now, we're all in on Wilson, but I think we would have had a more efficient offense with Flynn. That's my opinion and it's the opinion of a lot of people. I don't see why Wilson supporters get so butt hurt over it. We made it to 4-3 with Wilson and we should have been 6-1. So the kid will probably lead us to 6-3 the rest of the way, now that the worst of it is over, we end up 10-6 and make the playoffs. All's well that ends well. The Wilson Gestapo should just chill and enjoy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I feel sorry for your keyboard. Those poor keys. That poor space bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
I love that rooting for the starting QB to succeed is a bad thing now.

I love rooting for the starting Quarterback to succeed, but I don't root for him to make mistakes.
The fact that there were key passes that got dropped by his Receivers is the one reason that I don't blame this loss on Wilson.
The type of Defense tha 49rs play, looks for tendencies of the QB's, and plan on ways to neutralize him, and for the secong half they did exactly that.
Deep balls are fantastic when they find their targets, but sometimes you have to take advantage of the holes in the Defense on short passes, and that seems to be his area of weakness.
Hell, it worked great for Smith, and he's nothing great, but he played for whatever the Seahawks Defense let him have, plus, Gore having his way only opened up even more options for him.

I don't know if Bevel screwed up RW with his game plan, but 20 yards passing in the second half by Wilson is just poor execution by someone ,and the fact that good QB's will put the team on their back, he just didn't show that he could do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:58 pm 
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No, no, we can't possibly give credit to the 49ers defense for playing at the elite level they have been for the past 2 season, no way!!!!

Can't put the team on his back? did you miss the NE game, bro?

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:30 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
It's not a crappy logic trap to recognize that this offense is doing worse than they were last year. They're rated 30th overall in offense and 31st in passing offense. This offense IS worse than it was when TJack led it. That's not "crappy logic trap", that's called a FACT.

The bolded isn't a fact – it's just how you choose to interpret the stats. Sorting by YPG and saying that's the order of quality offenses isn't very useful to me. Base numbers like YPG ignore things like scheme and playcalling that have diminished Wilson's productivity. By DVOA, the 2011 Seahawks had the #22 offense (#21 passing, #14 rushing) and the 2012 Seahawks through week 6 had the #22 offense (#20 passing, #11 rushing). The 2012 team's 3.2% passing offense DVOA is better than the 2011 team's 0.1% passing offense DVOA. It's reasonable to argue that this year's offense has been more efficient than last year's, and a better scheme with better playcalling might have produced better raw numbers like YPG and PPG.

SalishHawkFan wrote:
WIN NOW vs build a dynasty. That's the REAL argument that the Wilson supporters refuse to engage in. It's because they can't win that argument with a Seattle fan base and they know it.

You're missing the point that many people don't see this as a “win now vs. build a dynasty” debate. I believe that this year's Seahawks team has a better chance to win the Super Bowl with Wilson than it would have with Flynn as the starting QB. The better question is why do you think Flynn gives the team a better chance to win now? Is there something more than the Detroit game where the Packers' receivers ran through the Lions' swiss cheese secondary and the moderate contract our FO gave Flynn after no one else (including his former OC) gave him the big contact he was looking for?


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Just to add a few more stats to dispute your claim that Jackson was better than Wilson:

2011 Jackson: 5.1 ANY/A, 6.9 Y/A, 11.4 Y/C, 60.2 Comp%, 79.2 Rating, 2.9 INT%, 8.5 Sack%

2012 Wilson: 5.2 ANY/A, 7.0 Y/A, 11.8 Y/C, 59.4 Comp%, 79.5 Rating, 4.0 INT%, 7.4 Sack%

The numbers are almost identical across the board, but they don't consider that this year's offensive scheme has been much more restricting on the quarterback, which means that Wilson's stats are deflated compared to what they would look like in a more pass-friendly offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:03 pm 
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TJ! TJ! TJ!

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:06 pm 
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jackson was far from a rookie last year. in fact, he and everyone else in the world knew it would be his last year ever unless he did something amazing. it could be argued that a similar scenario exists for wilson. but that argument wouldn't hold water in my opinion. i'd be interested to see stats of jackson's rookie year versus wilson's. actually, no, I wouldn't. I've done WAY too much reading already tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Comparing Tjack to RW is redundant.Two different QB's one is a playmaker and a rookie and the other is a 7 year vet scared to make a decision.RW has won more last minute comebacks than Tjack ever will.RW believes in himself while Tjack needs to have his diaper changed for him.I could go on.......Stats are for record books and bean counters who know nothing about how to make those numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:26 pm 
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It's amazing how many people think this thread is about comparing TJack to Wilson.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Has no mobility? I think even Flynn would admit that.. to say Flynn has mobility and that was something the wilson supporters made up is WEAK SAUCE..

wow.. Flynn is a great back up. maybe more .. but you know what you don't get to decide that...


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