A Different Kind of Wilson Thread

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A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:14 am
  • This is NOT a "Wilson vs. Flynn" thread, at least this isn't my intent, and I'm hoping there can be some constructive conversation. I don't mind wisearses, but I hope the vitriol can be held to a minimum.

    Anyhow, last night I snuggled up with a whiskey after the game and pondered our offensive woes. Here are a couple observations:

    1. I agree 100% with English and many of you that WR upgrades are essential for our next offseason. Ours just aren't passing muster and miss too many opportunities. For now we have to go with the players we have.
    2. Russell Wilson is not a complete QB at this point and, other than a beautiful long ball and his ability to use his feet, the rest of his game is lacking.
    3. Russell Wilson is our starting QB, barring injury, so anyone who doesn't like that will just have to deal.

    I'm going to leave observation #1 alone because it's been covered in another thread.

    As for Wilson (also, admittedly, covered in about 700 other threads), I think that his weaknesses are Flynn's strengths and vice versa. There is no way in hell that Flynn could have made the game winning throw against New England, but from what we've seen of him in his starts and during preseason is that he is one of those precision short/mid range guys, much like Hasselbeck or other West Coast QBs. That is precisely the kind of QB we need against vicious defenses like SF. His vertical game is, however, suspect.

    So since we can't make a FranckenQB out of the two, which has the potential to become the better QB? In my opinion, that is Wilson, but for the love of DAWG, he's got to get better at faster reads 5-10 yards down the field...in the middle of the field. Drew Brees has admitted that there are often plays to certain parts of the field that he doesn't see his receiver clearly, but that he sees enough to know where they will be and can throw to that spot. This is directly due to his lack of height, but he's learned how to compensate for it. I think this is key for Wilson as well.

    I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.

    So what do you think? What's it going to take for Wilson to be a complete QB?
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:21 am
  • TIME.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:23 am
  • the dude is a rookie..
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:25 am
  • TIME....and I don't agree with a lot of your Wilson comments.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:29 am
  • Time
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:30 am
  • For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

    If our Defense is holding thier own and we are rushing over 100 yards per game, if we just have average passing stats, we'd be undefeated.

    Flynn for the win. Cruficy me now, I don't care. Drops aside, our passing game all season has been abysmal.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:36 am
  • Hawksfanatik wrote:For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

    If our Defense is holding thier own and we are rushing over 100 yards per game, if we just have average passing stats, we'd be undefeated.



    ...bums me out to say it...but..Alex Smith seems to be doing a pretty good job with this.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:40 am
  • He needs to make his reads, quicker. Will time improve this? Only time will tell. IMHO, reading defenses is a QBs number one priority.

    He's still too eager to run. This should improve with time. (Or until he gets his first concussion, ACL, etc.) I'm not a big fan of running QBs in the pro-game.

    I don't see him hitting his safety-valve, hot-read, receivers. Hopefully, he will learn to trust his people and keep the running to a minimum.

    This man has lots of upside, but he also has some downside.

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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:41 am
  • MysterMatt wrote:
    I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.


    Oh he finds them, but either the pass is off, late, early.............. or they drop it.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:43 am
  • He needs more Rices and Baldwins. Guys who get open and can provide an intermediate move-the-chains game.

    He also needs a head coach who understands that an NFL offense is more than just hard running interspersed with the occasional bomb.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:43 am
  • Hawksfanatik wrote:For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.


    1) Your see's the filed comment is speculation. You have no factual evidence.
    2) Our offense will be the same with Flynn..... He is less experienced than Russell Wilson and things would be scaled back.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 am
  • Agree with the others on giving him time.

    I wonder if RW reached out to Brees if he would meet him and work with him a little bit in the offseason? Some 'short guy' pointers, if you will, a little Q&A.

    Kind of like how other skill players from various teams come together to work out sometimes, and even wind up bonding.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:47 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    Hawksfanatik wrote:For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.


    1) Your see's the filed comment is speculation. You have no factual evidence.
    2) Our offense will be the same with Flynn..... He is less experienced than Russell Wilson and things would be scaled back.


    Without attacking the poster, I am attacking your post. In my opinion, your so far off it isnt funny.

    1) Its well known and I think even Pete Carroll mentioned how Flynn is good at seeing the field, he mentioned that as a strength in training camp. He sees things quickly, and if you watched him play in Green Bay, that appears to be the case.

    2) Its hard to say hes less experienced. Yes gametime, true. But he is an NFL vet who learned behind Aaron Rodgers for years. In fact, Rodgers called him a top 15 QB in the game. Yes, he only has two games experience, but I would bet my money he has a lot more football knowledge than Russell Wilson at this point in time.


    Agree to disagree, but I am a pretty open minded guy and on your two points in particular, you are way off buddy.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:48 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:TIME....and I don't agree with a lot of your Wilson comments.

    What will time do, precisely? How will that, in and of itself, make him a better QB?

    By this logic, every rookie QB who ever steps on the field should, at some point, become a quality NFL starter.

    And which of my statements are incorrect? That Wilson is not set as our starter and that there is hope for Flynn lovers? Or that he's the kind of QB that would have helped us win last night (can see the whole field and excels and high-percentage, quick tempo passing game)?

    Feel free to elaborate, I'm just curious.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:52 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    MysterMatt wrote:
    I'll say it again, for Wilson to become a complete QB, he has simply got to be able to find guys in short and medium range in the middle of the field.


    Oh he finds them, but either the pass is off, late, early.............. or they drop it.

    Okay, but what I've seen a fair amount of is that when the D bunches up the middle, he seems to have a hard time seeing anything behind them, which leaves a huge part of the field a black hole. Better receivers, I've already said, will help, but they can't compensate for that.

    Another guy mentioned finding a mentor. That's not necessarily a bad idea, but I don't know if Brees would go for that or not. I wonder if they can work on such situations in practice? Create some type of drill that builds chemistry in those situations?
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:55 am
  • The only "problem" I can see with RW is that he's only 5'10", which leads me to believe that they should be calling more swing pass plays. Also, because the O-line is averaging 6'6" tall, those are some tall melons to peek over which further solidifies my belief. Seattle is 7th in rushing thus far so it still leads me to believe that they are having some success in pushing around defenses.

    But then again, the play calls have been...interesting thus far (IE 4 pass plays on a goal line in Arizona)

    Just my $0.02...I could be wrong.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:56 am
  • First thing he has to stop doing is retreating out the back side when he feels pressure. His first instinct is to run backwards. Would also like to see a healthy connection start for him with his TEs. He has shown glimpses but would really like to see more. Miller and Rice should be seeing the largest amount of his distribution, with Baldwin/Tate getting the next distribution share.

    Using his RBs similar to how the 49ers used theirs isn't a bad thing. Though those guys need to catch the ball when given the chance.

    TEs should be this guy's training wheels. I hope they never coach out of him his faith to give his WRs a chance in tight coverage. I think he is a stopgap for now. Maybe he becomes the long term answer, but if this regime remains in play, once Flynn moves on I would expect a high pick at the QB position. Wilson to me is like a Colt McCoy. Though that is just a superficial comparison.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:57 am
  • I think Russells biggest crutch right now is that he is just reacting, he is not comfortable/patient/confident enough with the offense and the chemistry/trust with his receivers is not there to throw to spots on the field.

    They tried the conservative playbook in hopes it would start to click but it has not, the long passes for the most part are desperation plays to stay in games or sometimes just perfectly called plays, we have been lucky with a few of those long plays, Tate vs GB, Baldwin really made that catch vs NE by adjusting his body position IN AIR to keep that ball from being picked and making a great catch, the Edwards catch vs NE was flat out ugly and clumsy looking but we did get a TD play there also.

    Some people have become impatient (myself included) with Russells play and it almost seems we gotta go back to square one offensively in hopes the coin drops. Russ knows the fundamentals but has not grasped the speed with which things happen and instead of being patient and following the plan he panics and reacts. We have been pretty lucky so far and a lot of breaks have went our way in tight games but that is not likely to continue.

    People may critize Bevell and Petes offense but it is a tried and true blueprint that works, but in order for it to work you have to have patience and execute it properly (that goes for the entire offense not just Russ) Once you can show you have digested and can execute the offense THEN wrinkles can be implemented that showcase Russells strengths as quarterback and really make this offense exciting.

    Having said that I have not seen the improvement that many see and I have yet to see Russell be the leader this offense needs, Russ needs to start calling out the OLine when they miss an assignment or jump in a WR's face when they blow or quit a route, its Russells show and he has a chance to take it and sadly he is letting that slip away.

    Go back to basics and learn the offense.

    sorry for the ramble
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:20 am
  • m0ng0 wrote:
    People may critize Bevell and Petes offense but it is a tried and true blueprint that works, but in order for it to work you have to have patience and execute it properly (that goes for the entire offense not just Russ) Once you can show you have digested and can execute the offense THEN wrinkles can be implemented that showcase Russells strengths as quarterback and really make this offense exciting.



    I'm sure it worked great at USC, just like Dennis Erickson's coaching worked great at the University of Miami...I'm just sayin' :mrgreen:
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:40 am
  • Flynn vs Wilson - Wilson over Flynn..... nothings gonna change... barring complete meltdown or injury. wilson is our starter... he's got to improve with the reads and quick check downs, he's got to trust the pocket a little more.. our recievers and backs need to start catching the ball more consistantly, our line has to pass protect better...more importantly and i said this last night during the game.. our coaching staff has got to stop putting him in bad positions, 3rd and longs, start mixing up the play calling - run, run pass is a recipe for failure at this point in his development.... if we're unsuccessful on 1st and 2nd running the ball all the time, defenses are going to pin their ears back.. and that's where the trouble starts... when he has time from a play fake or just good pass blocking you have seen how effective he can be.... wilson is the best qb we have , he has the most potential , and is the better athelete by far, the reads and check downs will come with time, right now he's playing on instinct... i wish we never traded for flynn so we can stop poundering over this....
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:44 am
  • sa_seahawker wrote:
    m0ng0 wrote:
    People may critize Bevell and Petes offense but it is a tried and true blueprint that works, but in order for it to work you have to have patience and execute it properly (that goes for the entire offense not just Russ) Once you can show you have digested and can execute the offense THEN wrinkles can be implemented that showcase Russells strengths as quarterback and really make this offense exciting.



    I'm sure it worked great at USC, just like Dennis Erickson's coaching worked great at the University of Miami...I'm just sayin' :mrgreen:


    blueprint for success when you have a dominent offensive line.... and a vetran qb... good coaches would realize this and adjust.. bevell is not adjusting..
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:46 am
  • Hawksfanatik wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    Hawksfanatik wrote:For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.


    1) Your see's the filed comment is speculation. You have no factual evidence.
    2) Our offense will be the same with Flynn..... He is less experienced than Russell Wilson and things would be scaled back.


    Without attacking the poster, I am attacking your post. In my opinion, your so far off it isnt funny.

    1) Its well known and I think even Pete Carroll mentioned how Flynn is good at seeing the field, he mentioned that as a strength in training camp. He sees things quickly, and if you watched him play in Green Bay, that appears to be the case.

    2) Its hard to say hes less experienced. Yes gametime, true. But he is an NFL vet who learned behind Aaron Rodgers for years. In fact, Rodgers called him a top 15 QB in the game. Yes, he only has two games experience, but I would bet my money he has a lot more football knowledge than Russell Wilson at this point in time.


    Agree to disagree, but I am a pretty open minded guy and on your two points in particular, you are way off buddy.


    After having learned the GB system for 4 years, alongside Aaron Rodgers, after having worked for 4 years with those receivers, in that offense...Rodgers said that he could be a "top-15 QB"...that isn't saying much. I'll tell you right now, Russell Wilson, after 4 months in our "system" would already be a top-15 QB if his receivers would catch the f**king ball when he throws it to them.

    Obviously, people are seeing what they want to see when they watch these games. I can't believe Wilson is being criticized as much as he is on this board.

    Wilson can excel with this group of receivers, but the coaching staff needs to implement a completely different package of passing plays for that to occur. If we don't have numerous 7-20 yd plays being practiced, we need to start yesterday. He looks just fine to me in the pocket going through reads. He's a tad slow, but he's learning. Part of the reason he's slow is that our passing plays are designed to take a long time to develop...which, without quality receivers and adequate checkdowns, results in what we saw last night.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:52 am
  • by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:15 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....


    Tate dropped a quick slant in the 2nd half which would have given us a first down. Instead we punted and SF marched down the field and scored their only TD. Quick slant is also the pass Edwards dropped for the game winning TD in Arizona. See a pattern here?

    Slants and quick outs require WR separation, something our WR's have a hard time doing.............combine that with Wilson not being very accurate on said slants and outs (interception for TD against Carolina), and you have a recipe for disaster in the passing game.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:20 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....

    Did you not see Tate's epic drop on 3rd down last night? I believe that was a slant.

    Anyhow, to anyone who is surprised that Wilson gets critisized, I honestly don't know what to tell you. It's almost mind-bloggling to me that anyone thinks the QB position is somehow above that sort of thing. Objective criticism is a good thing.

    This thread's agenda, if it has one, is based on the premise that Wilson will remain our starter for the forseeable future. With that in mind, what do we think he needs to do to improve? I'm trying to have an objective conversation about our starting quarterback, not bitch and whine about WRs, coaches, bad OL, etc. This thread, I hope, will focus on constructive observations and recommendations and NOT excuses.

    Excuses are cheap, and they've all be made. I want to know what you geniuses think he can do to improve.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:27 pm
  • Would you please stop with this rational crap! And here I thought you were Irish...LOL!!!
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:30 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....


    Tate dropped a quick slant in the 2nd half which would have given us a first down. Instead we punted and SF marched down the field and scored their only TD. Quick slant is also the pass Edwards dropped for the game winning TD in Arizona. See a pattern here?

    Slants and quick outs require WR separation, something our WR's have a hard time doing.............combine that with Wilson not being very accurate on said slants and outs (interception for TD against Carolina), and you have a recipe for disaster in the passing game.


    Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it is exactly the opposite. On slants you 'throw' the receiver open. There's really not much time for separation.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:30 pm
  • LoneHawkFan wrote:Obviously, people are seeing what they want to see when they watch these games. I can't believe Wilson is being criticized as much as he is on this board.


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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:34 pm
  • LoneHawkFan wrote:
    After having learned the GB system for 4 years, alongside Aaron Rodgers, after having worked for 4 years with those receivers, in that offense...Rodgers said that he could be a "top-15 QB"...that isn't saying much. I'll tell you right now, Russell Wilson, after 4 months in our "system" would already be a top-15 QB if his receivers would catch the f**king ball when he throws it to them.

    Obviously, people are seeing what they want to see when they watch these games. I can't believe Wilson is being criticized as much as he is on this board.

    Wilson can excel with this group of receivers, but the coaching staff needs to implement a completely different package of passing plays for that to occur. If we don't have numerous 7-20 yd plays being practiced, we need to start yesterday. He looks just fine to me in the pocket going through reads. He's a tad slow, but he's learning. Part of the reason he's slow is that our passing plays are designed to take a long time to develop...which, without quality receivers and adequate checkdowns, results in what we saw last night.

    During last nights game, after the second dropped pass, they threw up a stat showing that Seattle's receivers had only dropped 3 passes all season and already had dropped 2 that night. So if the Hawks never dropped a single ball all year - and you honestly think the rest of the QB's in the NFL haven't had MORE dropped passes than Wilson? - RW wouldn't climb too far from where he already dwells near the cellar.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:38 pm
  • I feel like when you have a 0 as a qb rating the second half when the game is on the line, you probably still have some improving to do, its not 100% on the rest of the team.

    I think the play that bothered me the most besides the pick was when Wilson was playing ring around the rosie with one of his lineman, and started running the wrong direction. I can't even remember the result of that play, I think he threw it out of bounds, but I just remember thinking what the hell is going on! It also seems like he is still falling back in the pocket too deep right into the path of defensive ends instead of giving his line the chance to make a pocket.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:39 pm
  • MysterMatt wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....

    Did you not see Tate's epic drop on 3rd down last night? I believe that was a slant.

    Anyhow, to anyone who is surprised that Wilson gets critisized, I honestly don't know what to tell you. It's almost mind-bloggling to me that anyone thinks the QB position is somehow above that sort of thing. Objective criticism is a good thing.

    This thread's agenda, if it has one, is based on the premise that Wilson will remain our starter for the forseeable future. With that in mind, what do we think he needs to do to improve? I'm trying to have an objective conversation about our starting quarterback, not bitch and whine about WRs, coaches, bad OL, etc. This thread, I hope, will focus on constructive observations and recommendations and NOT excuses.

    Excuses are cheap, and they've all be made. I want to know what you geniuses think he can do to improve.

    I think that to improve, Wilson needs to sit and watch for a while. Practicing with the second string will help him to get his fundamentals down. STeve Young was considered a bust until the Niners took him from TB and had him spend some time learning as the backup QB. That approach is a tried and true approach that has worked for many successful QB's. The teams that don't use that approach tend to be desperate teams who are rebuilding. And the majority of the time, those QB's get shellshocked in the process and are ruined. It's better to start on a solid team like Seattle's. It's even better than that to start on a solid team like Seattle's after you've had a couple years gaining invaluable experience in practice.

    That's why Flynn did so well for GB. He was on a solid team AND he'd had a few years to learn the system inside out and get acclimated to the NFL.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:45 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it is exactly the opposite. On slants you 'throw' the receiver open. There's really not much time for separation.


    Every catch requires separation, quick slants and outs just so happen to require the separation to be done faster. It requires technique and tenacity at the line of scrimmage on the WR's part.

    This is what makes our DB's so good, they're so dominant that they get up on the line and don't allow the WR to get any separation. This is also what happened with our WR's last night. They were dominated.........and when they did get open they dropped the damn ball.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 pm
  • SouthSoundHawk wrote:
    Hawksfanatik wrote:For our team now, Matt Flynn is the choice I would make. He sees the field so much better than Wilson (yeah he is a rookie). So what... You can't win in a passing league throwing for 100-150 yards per game.

    If our Defense is holding thier own and we are rushing over 100 yards per game, if we just have average passing stats, we'd be undefeated.



    ...bums me out to say it...but..Alex Smith seems to be doing a pretty good job with this.


    And did you watch Alex Smith trying to lead his team to a comeback win last week?......if you missed it it was because it didn't happen. Instead when asked to attack the opponent Alex lined up int after int
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:59 pm
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    MysterMatt wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:by the way.. where is our quick slants and quick outs.. can honestly say i don't remeber seeing one this season... could be wrong.....

    Did you not see Tate's epic drop on 3rd down last night? I believe that was a slant.

    Anyhow, to anyone who is surprised that Wilson gets critisized, I honestly don't know what to tell you. It's almost mind-bloggling to me that anyone thinks the QB position is somehow above that sort of thing. Objective criticism is a good thing.

    This thread's agenda, if it has one, is based on the premise that Wilson will remain our starter for the forseeable future. With that in mind, what do we think he needs to do to improve? I'm trying to have an objective conversation about our starting quarterback, not bitch and whine about WRs, coaches, bad OL, etc. This thread, I hope, will focus on constructive observations and recommendations and NOT excuses.

    Excuses are cheap, and they've all be made. I want to know what you geniuses think he can do to improve.

    I think that to improve, Wilson needs to sit and watch for a while. Practicing with the second string will help him to get his fundamentals down. STeve Young was considered a bust until the Niners took him from TB and had him spend some time learning as the backup QB. That approach is a tried and true approach that has worked for many successful QB's. The teams that don't use that approach tend to be desperate teams who are rebuilding. And the majority of the time, those QB's get shellshocked in the process and are ruined. It's better to start on a solid team like Seattle's. It's even better than that to start on a solid team like Seattle's after you've had a couple years gaining invaluable experience in practice.

    That's why Flynn did so well for GB. He was on a solid team AND he'd had a few years to learn the system inside out and get acclimated to the NFL.


    And that goes back to the primary difference in philosophies between lots of folks on this board. Some people think that sitting on the bench leads to better play. Others think that the best way for a QB to improve is to actually play. And for every QB you can name in support of one approach, you can name another equally as good in support of the other.

    Me, I think if a QB has the talent, intelligence, leadership, etc., then he needs to play. And I think that Wilson is the best QB on our roster. I think his athleticism and arm are top notch, and I think he has that intangible "IT" factor that tends to lead to late-game heroics like we saw against NE. I think as he gains experience BY PLAYING, he will get better and better, and that he has the talent to lead us to greater results both now and in the future than any other QB we have.

    Matt, Wilson's work ethic is already well-established. He's been improving all elements of his game thus far. It seems to me that he and the coaches have been identifying areas for improvement and addressing them each week. That process needs to continue.

    And Salish, Flynn did do well in his last start for Green Bay. That's because he was in the same system for 4 years, was throwing to an outstanding WR corps and TE, and the Lions couldn't gameplan for him. None of that indicates that he would (or even could) do the same in our system with our offensive weapons.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:00 pm
  • well i guess when they only throw 3 or 4 quick hit pass plays in 6 games you tend to not remember them, especially if they lead to incompletions, my bad... i guess i need to avoid these wilson bashing threads, cuz i just don't understand your logic behind the arguments... you're more than intitled to you opinions, i'll just say it's going to make for a very long and fustrating season for you , because flynn's not getting in, and wilson will continue to make mistakes along the way, it's called the learning process. so i choose to look at the improvements every game instead of every little mistake, and take the good with the bad.. if there's one thing not one person in this forum cannot say is, for every bad play wilson has had, he's a a good if not great one... it's called football... just my humble opinion
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:14 pm
  • edogg23 wrote:I feel like when you have a 0 as a qb rating the second half when the game is on the line, you probably still have some improving to do, its not 100% on the rest of the team.

    I think the play that bothered me the most besides the pick was when Wilson was playing ring around the rosie with one of his lineman, and started running the wrong direction. I can't even remember the result of that play, I think he threw it out of bounds, but I just remember thinking what the hell is going on! It also seems like he is still falling back in the pocket too deep right into the path of defensive ends instead of giving his line the chance to make a pocket.


    Tom Brady has improving to do.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:15 pm
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    edogg23 wrote:I feel like when you have a 0 as a qb rating the second half when the game is on the line, you probably still have some improving to do, its not 100% on the rest of the team.

    I think the play that bothered me the most besides the pick was when Wilson was playing ring around the rosie with one of his lineman, and started running the wrong direction. I can't even remember the result of that play, I think he threw it out of bounds, but I just remember thinking what the hell is going on! It also seems like he is still falling back in the pocket too deep right into the path of defensive ends instead of giving his line the chance to make a pocket.


    Tom Brady has improving to do.

    OK I will call him on my cell phone and tell him that :)
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:27 pm
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    LoneHawkFan wrote:
    After having learned the GB system for 4 years, alongside Aaron Rodgers, after having worked for 4 years with those receivers, in that offense...Rodgers said that he could be a "top-15 QB"...that isn't saying much. I'll tell you right now, Russell Wilson, after 4 months in our "system" would already be a top-15 QB if his receivers would catch the f**king ball when he throws it to them.

    Obviously, people are seeing what they want to see when they watch these games. I can't believe Wilson is being criticized as much as he is on this board.

    Wilson can excel with this group of receivers, but the coaching staff needs to implement a completely different package of passing plays for that to occur. If we don't have numerous 7-20 yd plays being practiced, we need to start yesterday. He looks just fine to me in the pocket going through reads. He's a tad slow, but he's learning. Part of the reason he's slow is that our passing plays are designed to take a long time to develop...which, without quality receivers and adequate checkdowns, results in what we saw last night.

    During last nights game, after the second dropped pass, they threw up a stat showing that Seattle's receivers had only dropped 3 passes all season and already had dropped 2 that night. So if the Hawks never dropped a single ball all year - and you honestly think the rest of the QB's in the NFL haven't had MORE dropped passes than Wilson? - RW wouldn't climb too far from where he already dwells near the cellar.


    Let me ask you this...in the first 6 games...how many times did a receiver have two hands on the ball only to have it fall incomplete? Three? That would be...a joke.

    What I'm saying about him being a top-15 QB isn't a stretch...Lynch missed a ball he could have caught that ended up being an INT against STL...was that considered a drop? I think he should have caught that- don't you? If you start adding the TDs he could have had...along with all the yards...and at least one less INT, easily 2, and maybe 3-4 fewer...let's look at the #15 QB in the league right now:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

    Russell is #23 on that list, after last night. Let's say, in a perfect world, the drop against StL doesn't happen, instead it goes for a TD, and then Turbin catches the ball last night. Two fewer INTs due to bounces off of our receivers into defenders' hands. That puts him at 10 and 5 instead of 8 and 7...add about 250 more yards and about 3-5% on his completion%...and there you go...around a top-15 QB. I understand he has 1-2 more games than the rest on the list...but the stats I come up with actually put him 11-13 on that list...he's around 14-17 after this week at 10/5, 1480, 62.5%. All of that with this conservative offense. All it takes is a tiny bit of execution on the other end of the passes.

    I don't think he's great...I think he can and will be though. I wanted Flynn to start at the beginning of the year, I thought it would be best. But, I am trying to be objective...I really like what I see in Russell. A helluva lot better than what I see in our receivers. He is better at his position than they are at theirs.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:37 pm
  • Anecdotally, I agree with your assessments of Wilson's shortcomings. Particularly, short to mid routes in the middle of the field.

    But, I'd like to see some stats on his throwing tendencies and completion percentages to make sure I'm not seeing what I feared/expected I would see.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:23 pm
  • LoneHawkFan wrote: He is better at his position than they are at theirs.


    This is one sentence that really sums it all up nicely.
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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:41 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:Would you please stop with this rational crap! And here I thought you were Irish...LOL!!!

    I'm always rational. It isn't my help that I am a magnet for nutters, my man!

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Re: A Different Kind of Wilson Thread
Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:43 pm
  • nanomoz wrote:Anecdotally, I agree with your assessments of Wilson's shortcomings. Particularly, short to mid routes in the middle of the field.

    But, I'd like to see some stats on his throwing tendencies and completion percentages to make sure I'm not seeing what I feared/expected I would see.

    Great point, but how many of those take place after he's fled the pocket? I'd venture that it's a high percentage.
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