Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil

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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:32 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Fearless Frog wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Ah, I see. So if we lose it's his fault but if we win it's none of his doing. Got it. Good talk.


    Wins are not a QB stat. This is not an opinion. Teams win games. A QB can throw 3 pick-sixes and his team can still win, do you credit that as a "QB win" and "he played well enough for the team to win"?


    It depends on what he did with the rest of his snaps. No 1, 2 or even 3 plays win or lose a game on their own.

    You're only as strong as your weakest link, right? Right now the Seahwks are 3-2. Russell Wilson is 3-2 as a starting QB. Take your bullshit somewhere else.

    Wow, just wow. Do you have some man crush on Wilson? No logic to this argument and you use profanity. Classy!
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:35 pm
  • edogg23 wrote:Wow, just wow. Do you have some man crush on Wilson? No logic to this argument and you use profanity. Classy!


    GFY.

    Well, at least now we know who's alias Fearless Frog is.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:39 pm
  • Cool 2 posts in a row that make no sense...
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:40 pm
  • edogg23 wrote:Cool 2 posts in a row that make no sense...


    wtf is your problem?
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:43 pm
  • You are cursing at people who have a valid point and then accusing me of using different usernames. That's my problem. I've been trying to stay out of these arguments lately but this is ridiculous.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 pm
  • edogg23 wrote:You are cursing at people who have a valid point and then accusing me of using different usernames. That's my problem. I've been trying to stay out of these arguments lately but this is ridiculous.


    You don't like it? Take it to the Shack then buddy. There's no personal attacks in the main forum.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:04 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Well, at least now we know who's alias Fearless Frog is.


    Fearless Frog isn't anybody's alias. He's QUITE notorious over at Fieldgulls, where he's long since been banned. I always liked his contributions though, personally.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:14 am
  • kearly wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Well, at least now we know who's alias Fearless Frog is.


    Fearless Frog isn't anybody's alias. He's QUITE notorious over at Fieldgulls, where he's long since been banned. I always liked his contributions though, personally.


    Seems like a real class act.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:23 am
  • this argument sounds exactly like every argument i ever heard from a senior in highschool who lost his job to some "frosh who didn't deserve to be there" and how the team would be doing so much better if they were in there........
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:20 am
  • LymonHawk wrote:Hmmm....where have I seen this thread before?

    Preach it brother.
    Here's something else O'Neil said regarding the QB situation. It pretty much sums up these boards the last several weeks:


    They signed Flynn in free agency, and could have gone with him, and when Carroll still opted for the rookie it meant that Wilson wasn't going to be measured against other rookies, he was going to be compared to what everyone imagined Flynn might be doing with this same opportunity.

    The result is an argument that is endlessly circular and not all that informative about how Wilson is either performing or progressing.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:32 am
  • Fearless Frog. Nice to see you make your way over from every opponents board over at SBN to ours. I agree, wins are not a QB stat that can be equally applied.

    But what about comeback wins in the 4th quarter? while still a vague way to measure, that is a stat I have always looked at because of it's clutch indicator and it's correlation to a quarterback getting a grasp of the defense he is facing.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:05 am
  • BASF wrote:
    Fearless Frog wrote:Sorry but Wilson does not have the luxury of playing like a rookie when there is a perfectly good veteran option on the bench (who I'm betting money on will still be a far better pro than Wilson). And Wilson is in a FAR better situation than the other rookie QBs being compared. Realistically, this may be the best team Wilson will ever be a part of. This is the best defense in franchise history and a rushing game that compares favorably with 2005's.


    Less starting experience than Wilson does not make him a veteran. Sitting on the bench for all but one season of your eight year college and professional career does not make you a veteran. Wilson had more starts in college and has more starts in the pro's. Game experience is far more valuable than sitting for years.

    Wilson does indeed have more playing experience in the NFL, but Flynn is undoubtedly better at the mechanics of the game, Carroll mentioned as much. Those years in the NFL actually help Flynn in that regard. Wilson is seeing coverages, and certain pressure packages that he has never seen when he played in the NCAA. Flynn has had 4 years to study the pro game, and as I said Carroll eluded to Flynn being more adept at pre-snap reads, and audibles. I have no doubt that Flynn is the better player right now, but there are some reasons why Carroll went with Wilson.

    The first of which is potential, and schematic fit. Carroll wants a very specific type of player and Russell Wilson fits his description of what he calls the "point guard" QB, Flynn does not. Secondly Wilson is more athletic and has the bigger arm than Flynn, and he has intangibles off of the chart. Carroll simply decided to go with potential rather than a player that may be better now.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:08 am
  • I really hope that Wilson doesn't have more experience because that is what is holding him back and if he has more experience then either we are seeing his ceiling or Flynn's floor is already higher.

    Make up your mind. Either Wilson needs to gain experience over Flynn or Flynn has the higher ceiling. It doesn't add up.

    Pretty obvious to most, Flynn has improved each year and we should expect the same from Wilson. Trying to compare college starts and 5 rookie games to Flynn's time in the league is ridiculous. If it were not then it would be fair to say Flynn still has better numbers in two games than Wilson has in five. Just not as many picks.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:20 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:I really hope that Wilson doesn't have more experience because that is what is holding him back and if he has more experience then either we are seeing his ceiling or Flynn's floor is already higher.

    Make up your mind. Either Wilson needs to gain experience over Flynn or Flynn has the higher ceiling. It doesn't add up.

    Pretty obvious to most, Flynn has improved each year and we should expect the same from Wilson. Trying to compare college starts and 5 rookie games to Flynn's time in the league is ridiculous. If it were not then it would be fair to say Flynn still has better numbers in two games than Wilson has in five. Just not as many picks.


    Look what Flynn had in GB and compare that to what Wilson has in Seattle. The only thing going for Wilson is a great running game. GB is built around a passing attack that passes 60%+ times a game. Seattle under Carroll has been pretty 50/50 in terms of pass/run. I would think it would be much harder to get into a passing rhythm with your receivers when you are dedicated to establishing a run game as well.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:55 am
  • I think a better way to compare Wilson is with his PEERS starting this year in the NFL: 92 yrs or less:

    Luck -- Playing very well looks be the SUPERSTAR everyone expected him to be.

    Tannahill --- Playing Amazingly well and keeping his team in the game (They are 2 OT away from being 4-1 thats amazing! and he threw for over 400 yards against AZ? I think.)

    Wilson -- Smart QB, who reminds me personally a lot of Tom Brady in 2001. He is doing enough to win but not making the big mistake (usually) to cost the team the game.

    Cleveland QB (I forgot hi name) -- got feel sorry for him no one to throw to and the line is gawd awful.. I say INC since he has no chance.


    Locker -- very slow delivery and can be easily fooled by D right now, has a lot of growing to do still.

    RG3 --- Is a good QB, but I see a short life span with his scrambling causing him injuries and can he fall into the NEWTON TRAP?


    Cam Newton -- Over rated and pouting big time. He is nothing more than a glorified Young, a below average QB wit running ability
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:25 am
  • AF the Pack are 2-3 right now with that vaunted offense and who many believe to be the best QB in football and he has, Jennings and Starks and a much better D then Flynn had so your argument is kind of mute right now

    Here he would have an even better D and way better running game to take pressure off. Being able to read defenses, utilize a three step drop and the middle of the field along with throwing receivers open should help instead of hurt his chances.
    Last edited by RichNhansom on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:29 am
  • Wait, so O'Neil's point is that out of all the rookie QB's, Wilson has sucked the least?

    This is the NFL, nobody cares if your QB is a rookie, he's held up to EVERY QB in the league, not just the rookies. Fair or not, this is about performing........and so far Wilson's at the bottom of just about every statistical QB category.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:47 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:AF the Pack are 2-3 right now with that vaunted offense and who many believe to be the best QB in football and he has, Jennings and Starks and a much better D then Flynn had so your argument is kind of mute right now

    Here he would have an even better D and way better running game to take pressure off. Being able to read defenses, utilize a three step drop and the middle of the field along with throwing receivers open should help instead of hurt his chances.


    I'm talking about when Flynn played for GB, not the current GB Packers.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:00 am
  • Danny O'Neil wrote:
    Of all the rookies who began the season as their team's starting quarterback over the past 20 years, only one attempted fewer passes than Russell Wilson through five games.

    But none had more victories.


    Few rookies had the talent in place on the roster already that Wilson inherited. I'd say off the top of my head, only maybe Big Ben and Flacco had more on D in recent memory.

    The team is winning in SPITE of Wilson, not BECAUSE of Wilson.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:03 am
  • Fearless Frog wrote:Bullshit? Don't get mad at me for pointing out the obvious. Here's a better example: A team wins a game 3-0 on a field goal, or 2-0 from a safety. Is that a QB win? The QB played well enough to win?

    I'm sorry, but this is football. It is the ultimate team sport. Saying Russell Wilson deserves to continue to start because the team is 3-2 flies in the face of all long and evidence that we've seen on the field.


    Don't bring logic to the table with Wilson backers.

    Everything good that happens = Wilson did it.

    Everything bad = His OL, Darrell Bevell, the WR's, the temperature of Lake Washington, etc etc etc.

    The kid can do no wrong on this message board.. when ANY other QB would have far more backlash.. :lol:
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:20 am
  • Well, if you take this debate to its most illogical conclusion, then we should just get rid of the QB and run a Single Wing. That way the QB can’t screw-up all those “team” wins… :34853_doh:
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:23 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Fearless Frog wrote:Bullshit? Don't get mad at me for pointing out the obvious. Here's a better example: A team wins a game 3-0 on a field goal, or 2-0 from a safety. Is that a QB win? The QB played well enough to win?

    I'm sorry, but this is football. It is the ultimate team sport. Saying Russell Wilson deserves to continue to start because the team is 3-2 flies in the face of all long and evidence that we've seen on the field.


    Don't bring logic to the table with Wilson backers.

    Everything good that happens = Wilson did it.

    Everything bad = His OL, Darrell Bevell, the WR's, the temperature of Lake Washington, etc etc etc.

    The kid can do no wrong on this message board.. when ANY other QB would have far more backlash.. :lol:


    And here's my problem. You "non Wilson supporters" act like it's somehow our fault when things don't go well. Like if there's not enough "backlash" then the team's not going to get better. It's just plain stupid. You think how you feel and what you say has an effect on what happens on the field and IT DOES NOT.

    I'm not a Wilson supporter. Sure, I like the kid, but he's not more important to me than the team. I'm a Seahawks QB supporter. So until that's somebody other than Wilson, I'm gonna root for the guy who's playing and I'm reasonable and rational enough to not jump ship when there's some bumps in the road.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:30 am
  • Just like I supported TJ! last year. And Hass before that. And Seneca. And Dilfer. And Kitna. And Moon. And Friesz. And Mirer. And Gelbaugh. And McGwire. And Stouffer. And Krieg. And Mathison. And Gilbert. And Kemp. That's as far back as I can go. Although I'm sure I would have supported Zorn were I aware of the situation at the time.
    Last edited by Zebulon Dak on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:30 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Danny O'Neil wrote:
    Of all the rookies who began the season as their team's starting quarterback over the past 20 years, only one attempted fewer passes than Russell Wilson through five games.

    But none had more victories.


    Few rookies had the talent in place on the roster already that Wilson inherited. I'd say off the top of my head, only maybe Big Ben and Flacco had more on D in recent memory.

    The team is winning in SPITE of Wilson, not BECAUSE of Wilson.


    Flacco was 2-3 to start out his 2008 season with worse stats then Wilson overall BY FAR. I'm sure Ravens fans are happy they stuck with Flacco. Flacco had a 1/7 td/int ratio and threw for barely more yards then Wilson (844 to 815) but he also threw 19 more passes.

    Roethlisberger was a different animal all together, I don't think any rookie did as well as him his first season.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:32 am
  • Oooh! And the Charlies too. Both em.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:35 am
  • AF- hAWK,

    I think Newton broke records as a Rookie last year, but most 1st yr starters struggle, there are rare exceptions to that rule. 9Brady,newton, Big Ben, etc)

    I mean even P Manning struggled as a rookie, does ANYONE think of him as a bust?
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:37 am
  • PatsFanNH wrote:AF- hAWK,

    I think Newton broke records as a Rookie last year, but most 1st yr starters struggle, there are rare exceptions to that rule. 9Brady,newton, Big Ben, etc)

    I mean even P Manning struggled as a rookie, does ANYONE think of him as a bust?


    Brady was 1/3 for 6 yards his rookie year.

    *I know you said 1st year starter.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:38 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:AF- hAWK,

    I think Newton broke records as a Rookie last year, but most 1st yr starters struggle, there are rare exceptions to that rule. 9Brady,newton, Big Ben, etc)

    I mean even P Manning struggled as a rookie, does ANYONE think of him as a bust?


    Brady was 1/3 for 6 yards his rookie year.

    *I know you said 1st year starter.


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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:38 am
  • Zebulon,

    READ my post again.... I said 1st yr STARTERS.. As in the 1st year they take the reighns of the O...
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 am
  • PatsFanNH wrote:Zebulon,

    READ my post again.... I said 1st yr STARTERS.. As in the 1st year they take the reighns of the O...


    I did. And even though that doesn't really factor into our discussion here, it's duly noted.

    Btw despite my avatar I don't hate the Pats. Fyi. I just hate the Pats until after Sunday. That's all.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Fearless Frog wrote:Bullshit? Don't get mad at me for pointing out the obvious. Here's a better example: A team wins a game 3-0 on a field goal, or 2-0 from a safety. Is that a QB win? The QB played well enough to win?

    I'm sorry, but this is football. It is the ultimate team sport. Saying Russell Wilson deserves to continue to start because the team is 3-2 flies in the face of all long and evidence that we've seen on the field.


    Don't bring logic to the table with Wilson backers.

    Everything good that happens = Wilson did it.

    Everything bad = His OL, Darrell Bevell, the WR's, the temperature of Lake Washington, etc etc etc.

    The kid can do no wrong on this message board.. when ANY other QB would have far more backlash.. :lol:


    Nothing says condescension like, "Only people who think like me are being logical."
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:46 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Just like I supported TJ! last year. And Hass before that. And Seneca. And Dilfer. And Kitna. And Moon. And Friesz. And Mirer. And Gelbaugh. And McGwire. And Stouffer. And Krieg. And Mathison. And Gilbert. And Kemp. That's as far back as I can go. Although I'm sure I would have supported Zorn were I aware of the situation at the time.


    You can support and still be critical. We all love our Hawks, that's why we're here. Doesn't mean some of us accept it when our QB is not performing well, especially compared to all other areas of the team.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:52 am
  • Zebulon,

    Thought your avatar was original, made me laugh the first time I saw it.

    My point was that rookies/1st year starters WILL have growing pains and what I have seen from Wilson (limited sample seen mostly highlights) is he is a lot like Tom Brady in 01 plays safe GAME MANAGER football, and allows the D win the game for them. Which is a lot better than a lot of rookies do, hell look at Sanchez now, I think the Jets love have a GAME MANAGER with a 50% COMPLETION RATIO NOW LOL
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:43 am
  • Kind of scary when you think Sanchez had a similar type of following his rookie year and he went to two conference championship games back to back.

    Someone really should compare Sanchez rookie numbers to Flynn. Early mediocrity doesn't guarantee success with experience. How do you think Jets fans would feel now if they had someone like Flynn sitting on the sidelines while Sanchez was working through his rookie learning curve?

    If three years from now Wilson is putting up Sanchez type numbers and Flynn goes on to have success elsewhere, Carroll might be ran out of town.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:46 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:Kind of scary when you think Sanchez had a similar type of following his rookie year and he went to two conference championship games back to back.

    Someone really should compare Sanchez rookie numbers to Flynn. Early mediocrity doesn't guarantee success with experience. How do you think Jets fans would feel now if they had someone like Flynn sitting on the sidelines while Sanchez was working through his rookie learning curve?

    If three years from now Wilson is putting up Sanchez type numbers and Flynn goes on to have success elsewhere, Carroll might be ran out of town.


    They did. They had Kellen Clemens. :stirthepot:
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:51 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Just like I supported TJ! last year. And Hass before that. And Seneca. And Dilfer. And Kitna. And Moon. And Friesz. And Mirer. And Gelbaugh. And McGwire. And Stouffer. And Krieg. And Mathison. And Gilbert. And Kemp. That's as far back as I can go. Although I'm sure I would have supported Zorn were I aware of the situation at the time.


    You can support and still be critical. We all love our Hawks, that's why we're here. Doesn't mean some of us accept it when our QB is not performing well, especially compared to all other areas of the team.


    Exactly. The opinion that comes around here that if you don't think Wilson is doing ok, than you hate him and want him to fail is ridiculous.

    Just like Lymon pointed out earlier in the thread, comparing Wilson to other rookies isn't a good measure. Teams that start rookies usually have no other option because a) They used a high draft pick on them or b) there are no other options on the team

    The truth about Wilson is somewhere in the middle. He's not as bad as some people think and he's not as good as some people think. He is doing just enough to get by while our top 3 defense and rush offense is shouldering the load. My issue with this is, just enough isn't good enough to win championships. Realistically Wilson will improve as the season goes on but to say he has been playing well is just putting the blinders on.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:03 pm
  • amill87 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Just like I supported TJ! last year. And Hass before that. And Seneca. And Dilfer. And Kitna. And Moon. And Friesz. And Mirer. And Gelbaugh. And McGwire. And Stouffer. And Krieg. And Mathison. And Gilbert. And Kemp. That's as far back as I can go. Although I'm sure I would have supported Zorn were I aware of the situation at the time.


    You can support and still be critical. We all love our Hawks, that's why we're here. Doesn't mean some of us accept it when our QB is not performing well, especially compared to all other areas of the team.


    Exactly. The opinion that comes around here that if you don't think Wilson is doing ok, than you hate him and want him to fail is ridiculous.

    Just like Lymon pointed out earlier in the thread, comparing Wilson to other rookies isn't a good measure. Teams that start rookies usually have no other option because a) They used a high draft pick on them or b) there are no other options on the team

    The truth about Wilson is somewhere in the middle. He's not as bad as some people think and he's not as good as some people think. He is doing just enough to get by while our top 3 defense and rush offense is shouldering the load. My issue with this is, just enough isn't good enough to win championships. Realistically Wilson will improve as the season goes on but to say he has been playing well is just putting the blinders on.


    Maybe it's just me, but I don't hear a lot of people praising Wilson for playing great. A lot of his supporters are, in fact, saying he's A) doing what he's supposed to (for the most part, with the exception of the INTs) and B) going to go through the normal rookie struggles and because of B, we should keep playing him so that he can work through that process to get us where we want to be.

    It's the either/or disconnect where people assume that you either have to be Pro-Wilson because he's great or Pro-Flynn because he's actually better that causes most of these debates. If most positions weren't misrepresented, a lot of the white noise would be lost.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:06 pm
  • amill87 wrote:My issue with this is, just enough isn't good enough to win championships. Realistically Wilson will improve as the season goes on but to say he has been playing well is just putting the blinders on.


    If you want actual realism, here it is:

    No QB on our roster can lead us to a championship THIS YEAR. It won't happen, because both are too damn green and new to the team. The last time a QB in his first year with a team won the SB, it was 1999 with Dilfer and the Ravens. And Dilfer wasn't a young guy who was a bench rider. He had a long starting history with Tampa and an all-time great defense helping him out (so it could even be argued that Dilfer didn't LEAD the team).

    This year was ALWAYS going to be about developing a starting QB, and trying to win as much as possible while doing so. If you don't think Flynn would need development, that's another "blinders on" scenario. This is why our team has been built the way it has - to give our eventual QBOTF the best chance to succeed while allowing him to develop.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:31 pm
  • Vol you are assuming as much or probably way more about Flynn than anyone is assuming about Wilson. We know your stand point on Flynn and Wilson and IMO neither are rational.

    No team has ever made rhe playoffs at 7-9 but we did and beat the defending champs. Sanchez went to the AFC championship his first two years and he sucks.

    You don't know we couldn't be super bowl worthy. The learning curve Flynn has is chemistry with team mates and getting fully comfortable with the play book. He isn't having to learn the speed of the NFL game, how to function inside a pocket, how to read defenses and audible appropriately and the list goes on.
    ,
    What we are seeing from Wilson right now is likely what we will see for some time before he either takes the next step forward or backwards like Sanchez did. Hopefully it is forward.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:48 pm
  • RichNhansom wrote:Kind of scary when you think Sanchez had a similar type of following his rookie year and he went to two conference championship games back to back.


    Why is it scary? Wtf is scary about it? Neither Sanchez nor Wilson will be affected in any way by their "following." It doesn't matter what we think.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:12 pm
  • RichNhansom wrote:Vol you are assuming as much or probably way more about Flynn than anyone is assuming about Wilson. We know your stand point on Flynn and Wilson and IMO neither are rational.

    No team has ever made rhe playoffs at 7-9 but we did and beat the defending champs. Sanchez went to the AFC championship his first two years and he sucks.

    You don't know we couldn't be super bowl worthy. The learning curve Flynn has is chemistry with team mates and getting fully comfortable with the play book. He isn't having to learn the speed of the NFL game, how to function inside a pocket, how to read defenses and audible appropriately and the list goes on.
    ,
    What we are seeing from Wilson right now is likely what we will see for some time before he either takes the next step forward or backwards like Sanchez did. Hopefully it is forward.


    Bollocks.

    Name me ONE quarterback with Flynn's level of experience that EVER led his team to the SB.

    Just one.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:12 pm
  • RichNhansom wrote:Kind of scary when you think Sanchez had a similar type of following his rookie year and he went to two conference championship games back to back.


    .........and now he's in danger of getting benched for arguably the most over-rated backup QB in NFL history.

    Let's hope Wilson's ceiling is higher than being the next Mark Sanchez.
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:25 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Vol you are assuming as much or probably way more about Flynn than anyone is assuming about Wilson. We know your stand point on Flynn and Wilson and IMO neither are rational.

    No team has ever made rhe playoffs at 7-9 but we did and beat the defending champs. Sanchez went to the AFC championship his first two years and he sucks.

    You don't know we couldn't be super bowl worthy. The learning curve Flynn has is chemistry with team mates and getting fully comfortable with the play book. He isn't having to learn the speed of the NFL game, how to function inside a pocket, how to read defenses and audible appropriately and the list goes on.
    ,
    What we are seeing from Wilson right now is likely what we will see for some time before he either takes the next step forward or backwards like Sanchez did. Hopefully it is forward.


    Bollocks.

    Name me ONE quarterback with Flynn's level of experience that EVER led his team to the SB.

    Just one.


    Jeff Hostetler. 3rd round pick, only threw 109 passes in seven years as a backup. Came in after Simms broke his foot in 1990, and led the Giants to a SB win.

    There have been many pedestrian QB's that have won Superbowls. Rypien, Williams, Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson.

    The question is why are you already assuming Flynn falls into this sort of bad QB category when he hasn't even been given a chance yet?
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Re: Rookie QB comparison from O'Neil
Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:55 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Bollocks.

    Name me ONE quarterback with Flynn's level of experience that EVER led his team to the SB.

    Just one.


    Jeff Hostetler. 3rd round pick, only threw 109 passes in seven years as a backup. Came in after Simms broke his foot in 1990, and led the Giants to a SB win.

    There have been many pedestrian QB's that have won Superbowls. Rypien, Williams, Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson.

    The question is why are you already assuming Flynn falls into this sort of bad QB category when he hasn't even been given a chance yet?


    Jeff Hostetler is the only one of those guys that fits the description Vol was looking for, and even then he didn't get to start until toward the very end of the season if I remember correctly. Johnson comes nowhere close. Dilfer and Williams both had more than a few full seasons of starting experience before they made their Super Bowl runs. Rypien started 30 games before his run in 1991.

    I don't know what any of this even proves anyway other than rarely does a QB with little experience lead his team to the Super Bowl which is kind of obvious, is it not?
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