New England's underrated Opportunistic Defense

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  • I'm confident in the TEAM'S ability to score 24 points. Whether it be straight offense, defensive TD's, special team's TD's.. 24 is a very attainable number.

    And yes, our DB's are best in the league. I think as good as Reed and co. even though he's a safety, but I see what you mean. I'll definitely take this secondary over any other secondary in the league right now though. This is a violent bunch. I'm already preparing myself for the 10 inevitable personal fouls they'll draw for hitting your boy Brady too hard.

    To get back to the point of this thread. Part of the reason why the Patriots defense can be so opportunistic is because a large portion of the time teams are playing from behind, trying to play catch up. That leads to more recklessness with the football and eventually, more turnovers. I think it's a decent defense, possibly in the upper half of the league, but it certainly has it's flaws and limitations.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:NYCoug,

    ~~sigh~~ Yes because the seahawks front 4 are scarier than Suggs and the Ravens front 4 from years past or your LBers scarier thanRay Lewis and your safeties and cb scarier than Reed and Co.. Sigh... Brady will get sacked but he will also put points on the Board. the Hawks O needs score roughly 24 points to win MINIMUM.




    no matter who wins or loses....this being a game against one of the NFL media darlings in the Pats....you and anyone else who had similar thoughts to this or basically just brushing aside this Hawks defense due to various factors such as unfamiliarity/comparison to KNOWN big names from other teams/just plain ignorance are going to be on notice for the rest of the year for what this defense truly brings to the table and the fire and intensity with which they are going to lay into opposing offenses all season long...and hopefully many more to come.
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  • niveky wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:NYCoug,

    ~~sigh~~ Yes because the seahawks front 4 are scarier than Suggs and the Ravens front 4 from years past or your LBers scarier thanRay Lewis and your safeties and cb scarier than Reed and Co.. Sigh... Brady will get sacked but he will also put points on the Board. the Hawks O needs score roughly 24 points to win MINIMUM.




    no matter who wins or loses....this being a game against one of the NFL media darlings in the Pats....you and anyone else who had similar thoughts to this or basically just brushing aside this Hawks defense due to various factors such as unfamiliarity/comparison to KNOWN big names from other teams/just plain ignorance are going to be on notice for the rest of the year for what this defense truly brings to the table and the fire and intensity with which they are going to lay into opposing offenses all season long...and hopefully many more to come.


    Well said. Not to mention the fire and intensity that the 12th Man are going to bring to the table. It'll be unlike anything the Patriots have seen or will see this year, you can count on that.

    Also niveky, you've got the greatest avator EVER! I love that thing, hilarious!
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  • Niveky,

    My post you quoted should have said (In their Primes WHEN bRADY & cO. WERE FACING THEM.) MY point was simple your D is NOT scarier than the ELITE D of Baltimore in the 2000's may be equal (we will see) but not scarier.

    The seahawk fans may get to see an offensive showing they have never seen before as well and one that will continue for a few more years still...

    And one you have NOT seen before or probably again this year!
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Niveky,

    My post you quoted should have said (In their Primes WHEN bRADY & cO. WERE FACING THEM.) MY point was simple your D is NOT scarier than the ELITE D of Baltimore in the 2000's may be equal (we will see) but not scarier.

    The seahawk fans may get to see an offensive showing they have never seen before as well and one that will continue for a few more years still...

    And one you have NOT seen before or probably again this year!


    You are grossly underestimating the effect of the 12th man on opposing offenses. but that's ok, you just don't know about it yet. You will come Sunday evening.
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  • NYCoug wrote:
    niveky wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:NYCoug,

    ~~sigh~~ Yes because the seahawks front 4 are scarier than Suggs and the Ravens front 4 from years past or your LBers scarier thanRay Lewis and your safeties and cb scarier than Reed and Co.. Sigh... Brady will get sacked but he will also put points on the Board. the Hawks O needs score roughly 24 points to win MINIMUM.




    no matter who wins or loses....this being a game against one of the NFL media darlings in the Pats....you and anyone else who had similar thoughts to this or basically just brushing aside this Hawks defense due to various factors such as unfamiliarity/comparison to KNOWN big names from other teams/just plain ignorance are going to be on notice for the rest of the year for what this defense truly brings to the table and the fire and intensity with which they are going to lay into opposing offenses all season long...and hopefully many more to come.


    Well said. Not to mention the fire and intensity that the 12th Man are going to bring to the table. It'll be unlike anything the Patriots have seen or will see this year, you can count on that.

    Also niveky, you've got the greatest avator EVER! I love that thing, hilarious!



    I can't wait...very nervous obout this game but when you have an elite defense and good special teams that can be a nice equalizer. also when there is an offense that is slowly coming along like this and you see some great signs of progress like last week....even though i'm as nervous as anyone about the offense laying an egg...i'm also optimistic that the coaching staff is going to put Wilson in position to really succeed this week as they open up more of the offense for him.

    Yeah...I am kinda partial to the avatar as well.
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  • Peach,

    I expect the 12th man be a factor as long as the game is within 7 points if the Pats get up by 14.. I am guessing like most fans you get quiet... But we will see IF Brady gets protected well it could be a very long day for the Hawks.
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  • See, I live on the East Coast, PatsFanNH. New Hampshire is a beautiful place and extremely underrated by the way, unlike any part of your team.

    Some of my friends are annoying Patriots fans so, unlike most Patriots fans that probably haven't watched a single minute of Seahawks football outside of the Golden Tate play, I'm forced to watch the Pats on a weekly basis. I saw you guys thrash the Bills in the second half, I saw the hurting you put on Denver.

    The reverse side of the equation is that I've seen you guys lose to the Jets, at home, in the playoffs. A team led by Mark Sanchez. And I've also seen you guys lose to the Arizona Cardinals, this year. I'd chill out with the air of invinsibility talk haha
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Niveky,

    My post you quoted should have said (In their Primes WHEN bRADY & cO. WERE FACING THEM.) MY point was simple your D is NOT scarier than the ELITE D of Baltimore in the 2000's may be equal (we will see) but not scarier.

    The seahawk fans may get to see an offensive showing they have never seen before as well and one that will continue for a few more years still...

    And one you have NOT seen before or probably again this year!



    Well, despite the Patriots newly evolving wrinkle this season and actually running the ball down teams throats when they go after the passing attack working on other defenses...it may not work quite so well on this Seahawks defense. As many have posted on other threads...the Hawks D has had a lot of its success running out of its base package. With the large/physical and athletic corners in the backfield..the rangy lb's with a great combination of speed and power...a very dominant front 4 of their own...not even mentioning the excellent subs they have coming in and wreaking havoc as well, and also the general manuevering of d-linemen in different positions. The front 7 and the back end of this defense are all playing very, very well. I have heard that speed off the edge has been a bit of a problem for the Patriots or one weakness that hasn't been properly tested to this point...the Hawks D has speed of the edge in spades..not to mention big bodies on the interior that can push some bodies around. As far as this new found running attack....they are getting teams without the necessary personel to defend the run in base and/or nickel packages. Our base defense features d-linemen that are very good at plugging up holes in the run and if teams go pass on this base defense the lb's and corners are still usually able to be physical enough to disrupt the flow of offenses. As for the TE play of NE..the secondary has the size and closing ability that most other teams don't have at all positions back there to even disrupt that portion of the NE passing attack as well. This game is going to be a real chess match.
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  • Don't forget the other great equalizer coming Sunday:

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    "The Seahawks showed today that they regarded me highly and I appreciate that, and I will continue to show how much I regard Paul Allen and the Seattle Seahawks with my play." - Richard Sherman
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  • NYCoug wrote:Oh I'm sure Brady will get his. He'll also do his NORMAL complaining to the refs whenever a Seahawk so much looks at him funny. You best believe that guys like Browner and Clemons are licking their chops. This defense plays with a TON of confidence. About the same level of confidence the Patriots offense operates with. They will not second guess themselves or have any fear. I wonder if you'll be able to say the same about your skill players and Mr. Brady after Kam Chancellor plants em in to the CLink turf a few times. Alligator arms? The "Witten's" if you will? :twisted:


    Would be nice if we could get a nice "Where's your skirt" chant going every time opposing QB's do that.
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  • EDGE rushers USUALLY dont bother Brady he just steps up in the pocket buys another second and boom... Now up the middle Pressure like any QB is hard for him to handle esp since he isnt a scrambling QB.


    Now as for the Loss to AZ, ANYONE hanging their hat on that game is crazy, as the Pats played as POORLY as they could have on O and still almost pulled out a W. (and should have if McDaniels had decided RUN the ball closer :P dang FG kicker
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:EDGE rushers USUALLY dont bother Brady he just steps up in the pocket buys another second and boom... Now up the middle Pressure like any QB is hard for him to handle esp since he isnt a scrambling QB.


    Now as for the Loss to AZ, ANYONE hanging their hat on that game is crazy, as the Pats played as POORLY as they could have on O and still almost pulled out a W. (and should have if McDaniels had decided RUN the ball closer :P dang FG kicker



    The Hawks D-tackles are pretty good about getting inside push. Mebane has always been very disruptive but has had noone on the opposite side to help him push through. With Branch and Jones in there they have been collapsing things pretty well from the inside....if the Pats are unable to keep this from happening Brady isn't going to have much of anywhere to go when those edge rushers come in.
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  • Niveky,

    IMO key to the game is give Brady no more than 3-4 seconds to deliver the ball even that may be to much time... I expect a lot of shotgun quick hits over the middle to Welker,Gronk and hernandez. To disrupt your pass rush with an occasional draw up the middle.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Peach,

    I expect the 12th man be a factor as long as the game is within 7 points if the Pats get up by 14.. I am guessing like most fans you get quiet... But we will see IF Brady gets protected well it could be a very long day for the Hawks.


    INCORRECT.
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  • Peach,

    We will see my friend should be fun the best O vs the Best D... Toughest test for BOTH so far this yr by a long shot...
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Niveky,

    IMO key to the game is give Brady no more than 3-4 seconds to deliver the ball even that may be to much time... I expect a lot of shotgun quick hits over the middle to Welker,Gronk and hernandez. To disrupt your pass rush with an occasional draw up the middle.



    another part of the chess match because even in shot gun..the Hawks corners are very good at press and if they can be their normal, disruptive selves right at the line of scrimmage that may not be enough time to get it to anyone and if that happens then they may be able to dink and dunk a bit and barely avoid pressure...another thing to consider is that this Hawks d has been very good at just flat out swatting balls or getting hands on balls when they are thrown all year long so far. If that trend continues...coupled with how well the hawks use press coverage and how well the db's are able to disrupt the timing of the Pats passing game....it could still be a long game if they try that route....

    I am really excited for this game because there is going to be so much back and forth strategizing, especially in this aspect of the game..the hawks d vs the pats o...i am really sad that i'll only be able to catch bits and pieces on siriusxm while at work sunday...i am pretty confident that it will be an nfl replay worthy game so thank god for dvr's if it is.
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  • Niveky,

    I apology I dont know the seahawks all that well in your BASE D wouldnt a LBer be covering Gronk and hernandez? Also who would line up on welker, I have heard HERE that short 5-10 yrd passes over the middle your weakness...and well thats Welkers sweet spot and even Revis has NEVER fully shut him down (5 for 57 yrds 1 TD was the worst against revis)
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Peach,

    We will see my friend should be fun the best O vs the Best D... Toughest test for BOTH so far this yr by a long shot...


    No doubt, but I'm talking about your comment on the 12th man. They don't quiet down. If this game is a pick'em on paper, then the 12th man gives the Seahawks a slight edge. It's the most unquantifyable advantage in sports, but I'll be damned if I haven't seen the crowd WILL this team to victory before. Can they lose at home? Of course. Any team can. I just don't want you to make the mistake of thinking that this is a normal crowd that can be taken out of the game with a few early scores.
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  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:Peach,

    I expect the 12th man be a factor as long as the game is within 7 points if the Pats get up by 14.. I am guessing like most fans you get quiet... But we will see IF Brady gets protected well it could be a very long day for the Hawks.


    INCORRECT.

    yeah, you beat me to it. Fans who've never been here don't understand. I can count on one hand the times I've heard it quiet in the Clink and you have to consider all the bad teams we've put on the field and STILL they keep roaring. If the Pats get up by 24+, THEN the crowd might quiet down...until the Hawks score and then the fans will sense a comeback and get all fired up again. Heck, even a good punt return by Leon and we'll get all fired up again.

    People just don't understand how loud it gets and how important to the whole experience of going to a Seahawks game the act of screaming when the opposing team comes to the line is to us. I DVR'd the Packers game. The noise coming over the TV set was incredible. Last week, listening to other games all weekend, I was struck by how quiet it was by comparison. Even when the home team fans were screaming their heads off, it was so muted on the TV. Not in Seattle. It ROARS. I've heard the noise from Bellevue. That's pretty amazing. That's nowhere near the stadium on the other side of Lake Washington with hills between them and the stadium.
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  • peach,

    then kudos to Hawk fans most crowds you "figurtively" punch the team in the nose with 2 quick scores and it is like a church all of a sudden... I am sure you know what I mean.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:peach,

    then kudos to Hawk fans most crowds you "figurtively" punch the team in the nose with 2 quick scores and it is like a church all of a sudden... I am sure you know what I mean.


    Defo. I've been to Cowboys Stadium to see the hawks twice now. Both games the Cowboys won, and you could hear a pin drop almost the entire time.

    I went to Arrowhead to see the 'Hawks in '07 i believe. Might have been '06. THAT was loud and awesome.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Niveky,

    I apology I dont know the seahawks all that well in your BASE D wouldnt a LBer be covering Gronk and hernandez? Also who would line up on welker, I have heard HERE that short 5-10 yrd passes over the middle your weakness...and well thats Welkers sweet spot and even Revis has NEVER fully shut him down (5 for 57 yrds 1 TD was the worst against revis)



    Even if an LB is on the TE, this d has a knack for swarming to wherever the ball ends up and limiting big plays. Earl Thomas has outstanding range and even though he is a rookie, Wagner has shown to be able to close quickly in space AND make the tackle he needs to. I believe that he has 4.4 speed and it does translate in game. I think that Wright is the other Nickel LB and he has been playing very well even as a rookie last year. The Pats will probably catch Wagner out of position a bit, but maybe not....but he definately has the closing speed to make sure it doesn't result in a total breakdown in most cases.


    In all of my posts I am not implying that The Hawks are just going to wipe the floor with the pats, or that they will completely dominate the pats o....if that were to happen though, I would only be mildly surprised though. I admit that it is a tall order and while the Hawks may have a bit of a weakness against the short passing game, the run game that the pats have found i am pretty confident will be squelched on sunday. I really feel that the Hawks d does have the ability to force the pats to be one dimensional and against about any other team I would have little doubt about the end result of being able to do that. Tom Brady will be the ultimate x factor for the pats this sunday. If he is able to get in a rythme(and I don't think big plays will be there very much) he could do just enough to get the Pats the win. The big X-factor for the Hawks will be the Offense. If Russell Wilson progresses beyond what he did last week I believe that the Hawks can actually win handily. If he plays as well as he did last week I feel the hawks can squeak out a win...if he plays like he did earlier in the season I will be wanting to pull my hair out all afternoon most likely but still not give out hope until the very end because I still feel like it could be close. I don't think that the Pats will be able to contain Lynch. If they focus on the run game they may stifle it in spots but there will still be some runs that beastmode will find a way to punish the Pats D. If the hawks get their run game going well. All of us hawks fans may not really care that there is nothing to talk about with Wilson's performance(and by this I also mean not having any mistakes that will be ridden to death on here) if that happens.

    I am really sad I will not be able to catch this game.......I hope it is a great game with no major injuries on either side and may the best team win(the hawks :P).
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  • One thing to note about the Pats D is it is pretty dang good against the Run, And after facing Flacco and Manning , I personally don't see Wilson lighting the Secondary up. One because your O be run run and run some more... I do expect see a few fumbles though and perhaps an INT or two.. Pats been scary good at this so far this year.

    As for your D, if BRADY is the X factor, thats a rather dangerous X Factor. I mean a 1st ballot HOFer is the guy you hope doesnt beat you? I think the TRUE X Factor be the Pats O line v Hawks D line. Brady gets some time Pats win, if Hawks have constant pressure a much closer game and perhaps a pats loss.
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  • Bill's specialty is taking away the offense's best weapon. For us, that is Marshawn. However, that has been the strategy for all 5 teams that have played the Hawks, and none of them have taken him out of the game plan completely.

    It's almost a rule, we do not win games where we give up more than 19 points. Now, to New England fans, that sounds like an easy number. Seeing as we have given precisely ZERO touchdowns in our last two road games, I reasonably confident we can do a respectable job of limiting that offense here at home where our defense rages.
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  • Scott,

    Now look at the OFFENSE you faced the last three in order were 21st,29th,21st. AND you have not faced one better than 16th and pleasse thats a ROMO led team that guys a sanchez clone.

    As for no team has done that yet to Lynch, I heard the same about Spiller from Bills fans ("the top running back in the league".. "has more yards per carry than anyone else" yada yada.) Fact is this is a QB league now and to constantly win you need your QB to step up.. question is will Wilson step up on Sunday when Lynch is limited to open things up for your RB?
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:One thing to note about the Pats D is it is pretty dang good against the Run, And after facing Flacco and Manning , I personally don't see Wilson lighting the Secondary up. One because your O be run run and run some more... I do expect see a few fumbles though and perhaps an INT or two.. Pats been scary good at this so far this year.

    As for your D, if BRADY is the X factor, thats a rather dangerous X Factor. I mean a 1st ballot HOFer is the guy you hope doesnt beat you? I think the TRUE X Factor be the Pats O line v Hawks D line. Brady gets some time Pats win, if Hawks have constant pressure a much closer game and perhaps a pats loss.

    You summed up the game plan. Think Giants pass rush. I also expect our corners to play a lot of man press, and our 3 safety sets to try and bracket Gronk/Welker.

    I half wonder if we will see much from Gronk anyway, we have more length in our linebackers and secondary than you have ever seen. In our Bandit set we could feature one linebacker and up to 4 secondary players 6'3" or taller.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:One thing to note about the Pats D is it is pretty dang good against the Run, And after facing Flacco and Manning , I personally don't see Wilson lighting the Secondary up. One because your O be run run and run some more... I do expect see a few fumbles though and perhaps an INT or two.. Pats been scary good at this so far this year.

    As for your D, if BRADY is the X factor, thats a rather dangerous X Factor. I mean a 1st ballot HOFer is the guy you hope doesnt beat you? I think the TRUE X Factor be the Pats O line v Hawks D line. Brady gets some time Pats win, if Hawks have constant pressure a much closer game and perhaps a pats loss.



    The reason I didn't put the O-line is because whether or not the o-line plays well or badly, Brady will be where the play has the final chance to succeed. Brady has had an awesome career and continues to play well for the most part, but when he is faced with a truly great defense..it has been shown that his offenses can be contained enough for the other team to get the win. If the pressure from the Hawks D gets to Brady I feel confident that the Hawks are going to come out of a hard fought game the victors..but even with pressure and even with bad o-line play. Brady, being one of the greats could still get his passes through in the narrowest of windows and find a way to get those completions even if the d is playing lights out..if this happens and he gets enough of them going..that is going to get that pendulum swinging in the Pats favor.
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  • Yea this game is going to come down to how much pressure and disruption we can get on Brady. We are stout v the run, great out wide, on Sunday we will have challnges to our backers in coverage on welker, gronk and possibly Hernandez. We cant be playing soft zones here and giving one of the best QB's ever time to pick a pass as he will pick us apart.

    Brady and Bellacheck have seen and done it all, and been to every ground in the league and done the business, and I dont think the CLink will phase them to be honest. It culd have an impact in charging up our players though, and some issues for the pats with hearing calls and audibles as it does for most teams.

    All in all it will be a tall task for the hawks v this offence, but we definitley have one of the best d's to be able to do this

    As for the ratings on the offences, id suggest the packers, cowboys and Panthers, regardless of current rankings, all have very explosive and dangerous offences and we done excellent v them all. The packers offence is quite similar to the pats and they also hve a brady clone in rodgers. My worry is the adjustments made by the pack 2nd half allowed them to dink and dunk all the way up the field, I forsee the pats doing this for large chunks of the game, thats if we dont get pressure up the middle to disrupt it....A real chess match on the cards
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  • Scotte,

    PLEASE PLEASE Show that Bandit set.. I have seen more teams try THAT tactic to stop the Pats on O. so them do it in DENVER,BUFFALO, TITANS,and Ravens.. and the Pats ran all over them a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE and the Pats have very good bloacking WR.. That set is golden for 10-15 yard runs almost every time!
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  • glasgow seahawks wrote:Yea
    As for the ratings on the offences, id suggest the packers, cowboys and Panthers, regarding of current rankings, all have very explosive and dangerous offences and we done excellent v them all. The packers offence is quite similar to the pats. My worry is the adjustments made by the pack 2nd half allowed them to dink and dunk all the way up the field, I forsee the pats doing this for large chunks of the game, if we dont get pressure up the middle to disrupt it....A real chess amtch on the cards



    The Packers usually have a great O, but it is NOT like the Pats. Pats is much more underneath and TE heavy where the Pack is more WR and stretch the field type team. Both very good but very different in ways going about things.

    Aothe thing NE has that the pack hasnt had is a running game. Even if not effective your D will have to respect it as it can break long runs at any moment.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:Scotte,

    PLEASE PLEASE Show that Bandit set.. I have seen more teams try THAT tactic to stop the Pats on O. so them do it in DENVER,BUFFALO, TITANS,and Ravens.. and the Pats ran all over them a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE and the Pats have very good bloacking WR.. That set is golden for 10-15 yard runs almost every time!

    Whatever helps you sleep at night. The Seahawks are not your average backfield of midgets.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:Scotte,

    PLEASE PLEASE Show that Bandit set.. I have seen more teams try THAT tactic to stop the Pats on O. so them do it in DENVER,BUFFALO, TITANS,and Ravens.. and the Pats ran all over them a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE and the Pats have very good bloacking WR.. That set is golden for 10-15 yard runs almost every time!

    Whatever helps you sleep at night. The Seahawks are not your average backfield of midgets.


    Seriously, Patsfan, you need to do some research. Our backfield are monsters.
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  • Personally I am hoping that Bellicheck is so pissed at Welker for his comment the other night that he benches him for the game. The quick plays to Welker are what scares me the most. It is the type of plays that GB executed in the second half that could burn us big in this game. I do hope by getting enough pressure on Brady and jamming at the line we can do some damage but that is my concern for defense.

    Like others have said the big thing on offense is that the opposing defense will do a lot of shifting and weird looks. They may have a very conventional play but they will make it look like something completely new / strange to cause the interceptions.

    Should be a good game - need the running game to get going to open up the play action pass...... also need a few less first and goal run, second and goal run, penalty, third and goal pass......... then kick fg from the 3 yard line instead of going for it and stopping them a la GB game
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:NYCoug,

    ~~sigh~~ Yes because the seahawks front 4 are scarier than Suggs and the Ravens front 4 from years past or your LBers scarier thanRay Lewis and your safeties and cb scarier than Reed and Co.. Sigh... Brady will get sacked but he will also put points on the Board. the Hawks O needs score roughly 24 points to win MINIMUM.


    I'm not necessarily disagreeing that we may need to put up 24 points to win (although some of that could come from defense/special teams).

    That said, yes our front four are scarier, yes our LBs are scarier, and yes our CBs are scarier. Don't believe me? Ask Romo, Rodgers, Newton, Bradford, or Skelton . Still don't believe me? Fine. I hope your players don't either because the shock will cause almost as many problems as the ass whooping itself.
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  • PatsFanNH wrote:a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE


    I no longer actively participate on this forum, but for this one I have to come out of the woodwork.

    Seattle's secondary not only likes hitting TEs, they will actively seek out the contact. They are a big, physical group who thrive on contact and getting inside people's heads.

    Maybe your secondary guys don't like being hit, but our guys will do it all day long and get the better of the hitting in most cases.

    Don't let the ability and quickness of this defense fool you into thinking they are not physical. They are the most physical secondary in the NFL.
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  • The Pats clearly have a good team year in and year out. The Hawks, unfortunately, have a different history. Yes the Pats have a great offense (#1) and the Hawks have a great defense (#4). Conversely the Pats D isn't all that great (#24) and the Hawks O isn't either (#25). It would appear to be an even match up with the Hawks having the 12th Man in their pocket.

    Looking a little closer at who the Pats have played compared with the Hawks may take a little luster off the Pats ranking. The Pats numbers are a little skewed by a couple of games against a bad Titans team and a bad Bills team. Not to mention that Buffalo, Tennessee and Denver are in the bottom 10 teams in rush defense. Seattle has faced only 1 team in the bottom 10 (Carolina). The Pats have also faced 3 teams in the bottom 10 for passing D as well (Buff, Tenn, Balt). Seattle has yet to face any in the bottom 10 until this weekend when the Pats come to town.

    Should be interesting.

    BTW the vaunted Baltimore D of yesteryear is #26 in total team defense.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:Seattle's secondary not only likes hitting TEs, they will actively seek out the contact. They are a big, physical group who thrive on contact and getting inside people's heads.


    To your point we have the biggest secondary in the NFL. Our backs like to hit TE's because they're the same size.
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  • This Defense made Whitten, Smith and others drop passes due to him hearing footsteps. We are physical and by halftime, the offenses get tired of getting hit.

    Seahawk fans see the Patriots all of the time on primetime and sportscenter. The Hawks don't even warrant a short clip on NFL Primetime so you probably underestimate our Defense. We know that our Defense can stop that Patriot offense. The real question is: Can the Patriots defense stop our less-than-pedestrian passing offense? Your secondary is very sketchy and I believe Wilson will be up for the task. Hawks win 24-14 if we can get out of our own way (drive killing penalties).
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE


    I no longer actively participate on this forum, but for this one I have to come out of the woodwork.

    Seattle's secondary not only likes hitting TEs, they will actively seek out the contact. They are a big, physical group who thrive on contact and getting inside people's heads.

    Maybe your secondary guys don't like being hit, but our guys will do it all day long and get the better of the hitting in most cases.

    Don't let the ability and quickness of this defense fool you into thinking they are not physical. They are the most physical secondary in the NFL.

    Just post the gif of Kam rag dolling Todd Heap. It is educational.
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  • You have to realize, PatsfanNH, our Bandit package includes a 6'3" 240 lb safety than can run, a 6'3" CB, a 6'4" 230 lb CB who can run, a FS that will light people up and has the best range in the league, and a host of LBers that can stay with a Gronk (Wagner could hang with Hernandez), and are decent to good in coverage.

    Here's the fun part: they play the run very, very well. I also realize Bruce Irvin sometimes gets upfield too fast, but running screens to his side is not always effective since he has 4.4 speed for a DE and can run down RBs by the time they get back to the LOS.

    We have the personnel to mitigate your offense, and our crowd will make no huddle more difficult. The problem as I see it is your coaches make better in game adjustments than our coaches, and our offense is really pretty poor. Good luck thinking you can just erase our running game though....people have tried this year knowing we have no passing game and still couldn't stop it. Oh, and by the way, our #3 ranking in rushing is after facing two top 10 defenses.
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  • If only the NE coaches knew as little about our defense as their fans. I thought the secret about this team was out.

    What's funny is that I am not too confident right now about the overall game - our offense could very easily struggle even against their defense. Sort of a very-light-object vs very-little-force sort of situation, and their defense is probably better.

    But our defense is every bit as legit as their offense. We have no weaknesses and we're healthy (although Carroll's teams have shown a great ability to shake off injuries with great depth). Brady steps up in the pocket? One of our edge rushers (that'd be our rookie, Bruce Irvin, with 4.5 sacks playing half the snaps) has flashed a good inside counter move, and he's so fast that he gets there in a hurry. Our big guys have been getting good push since the Arizona game, too. Ridley is having a killer year, but we're a big, nasty defense that has 11 players who are good vs the run. Our secondary is huge, physical, and they excel at playing the ball in the air. We don't have many blown assignments, although we are prone to PI/DH calls. I think your pace presents some problems, because we tend to rotate frequently and it's possible to catch us with just one pass-rusher on the field, or with too many to handle the run. We'll need a good gameplan from the coaching staff to handle that.

    Oh, I almost forgot. This place is loud. Your line will get slower jumps off the snap, and more false starts happen at the CLink than anywhere else (and, remember, our defense was not intimidating until 2011... we've been leading the league in false starts for years).
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  • I realize the PATS are a good offense, but let's not be crazy. Against Denver the PAT rushed for 225+ yards and Brady passed for 223 yards and they scored 31 points. What makes PATs fan certain they will hang 24-31 points on Seattle. Seattle hasn't allowed more than 20 points this whole season, against some very explosive teams in DAL, GB, CAR.

    The fact is Denver is a weak rush defensive team. Seattle is suffocating against the run allowing a mere 66.6 yards a game. We know Brady likes to dink and dunk. He's ALWAYS liked to dink and dunk. The PATS are just amazing at converting 3rd down. Seattle up until last week was weak on 3rd down. If Seattle reverts back to how it played against DALLAS and GB than the PATS will have some long drives. If they play like they did last week allowing on 18% conversions on 3rd down than the uptempo stuff will be irrelevant. It only means something if you can sustain a drive. That will be the challenge for Seattle, no doubt about it.

    I just watched the Denver/ PATS game on Game Rewind and was amazed that at least 2 times Brady got spooked by pressure that wasn't there. Has he been doing that in any other game? One of the biggest plays in that game was a 3rd and 17 and the PATS ran the ball and Woodhead got the first down and ultimately ended in a TD. Unbeleiveable. DW knows how to squirt through and make first downs, He reminds me alot of Kevin Faulk a guy I HATED because he always managed to catch a pass or run for just 1 yard more than needed for a first down. 3rd down defense will be paramount. Also I beleive that Mebane and Jones will be huge factors in this game, if they can push the pocket and collapse it I think it will make Brady nervous and will get him out of his confort zone.

    I'm very excited for this game and expect to see some CLINK magic. I could see Seattle winning 23-20, Or I could see the PATS winning 24-17. Turnovers will be critical. Hopefully Seattle can get some scores assisted by the defense or special teams that will really help.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    PatsFanNH wrote:a secondary guy does not like being hit by a TE


    I no longer actively participate on this forum, but for this one I have to come out of the woodwork.

    Seattle's secondary not only likes hitting TEs, they will actively seek out the contact. They are a big, physical group who thrive on contact and getting inside people's heads.

    Maybe your secondary guys don't like being hit, but our guys will do it all day long and get the better of the hitting in most cases.

    Don't let the ability and quickness of this defense fool you into thinking they are not physical. They are the most physical secondary in the NFL.



    Denver was 9th vs the run before last week. Try again.

    EDIT: Accidentally quoted the wrong person. My B.
    Last edited by PATSFANinWA on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Snohomie wrote:I realize the PATS are a good offense, but let's not be crazy. Against Denver the PAT rushed for 225+ yards and Brady passed for 223 yards and they scored 31 points. What makes PATs fan certain they will hang 24-31 points on Seattle. Seattle hasn't allowed more than 20 points this whole season, against some very explosive teams in DAL, GB, CAR.

    The fact is Denver is a weak rush defensive team. Seattle is suffocating against the run allowing a mere 66.6 yards a game. We know Brady likes to dink and dunk. He's ALWAYS liked to dink and dunk. The PATS are just amazing at converting 3rd down. Seattle up until last week was weak on 3rd down. If Seattle reverts back to how it played against DALLAS and GB than the PATS will have some long drives. If they play like they did last week allowing on 18% conversions on 3rd down than the uptempo stuff will be irrelevant. It only means something if you can sustain a drive. That will be the challenge for Seattle, no doubt about it.

    I just watched the Denver/ PATS game on Game Rewind and was amazed that at least 2 times Brady got spooked by pressure that wasn't there. Has he been doing that in any other game? One of the biggest plays in that game was a 3rd and 17 and the PATS ran the ball and Woodhead got the first down and ultimately ended in a TD. Unbeleiveable. DW knows how to squirt through and make first downs, He reminds me alot of Kevin Faulk a guy I HATED because he always managed to catch a pass or run for just 1 yard more than needed for a first down. 3rd down defense will be paramount. Also I beleive that Mebane and Jones will be huge factors in this game, if they can push the pocket and collapse it I think it will make Brady nervous and will get him out of his confort zone.

    I'm very excited for this game and expect to see some CLINK magic. I could see Seattle winning 23-20, Or I could see the PATS winning 24-17. Turnovers will be critical. Hopefully Seattle can get some scores assisted by the defense or special teams that will really help..


    Yes the cowboys offense is so explosive they average 16 points a game. Good for 30th in the NFL. Take away the seahawks game and they go up to 19 PPG. Still good enough to be bottom 10 in the league.
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  • jlwaters1 wrote:...
    I just watched the Denver/ PATS game on Game Rewind and was amazed that at least 2 times Brady got spooked by pressure that wasn't there. Has he been doing that in any other game? .


    Saw this as well. He did this a couple of times in earlier games. Was going to ask Pats fans the same thing, then I figured even the great ones get tired of getting pounded after a decade. Saw Rodgers doing the same thing in the Colts game so I just chalk it up to even the best are human.
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  • drdiags,

    exactly, and in the denver Game when that happened in the 4th qrtr I believe the O was getting tired.. they ran over 95 OFFENSIVE plays against Denver. was so bad our Oline got exhausted from the tempo. (reason they got 2 sacks in the 4th qrtr we had subs in there.)

    I think Brady FELT pressure that was further away than he thought it was.. I rather he react to nothing than be crushed or drag down by his shirt by standing still.
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  • jlwaters,

    as you guys like to say the O doesnt have to do all the scoring. As you MAY or may not know the Pats are one of the leading teams in TakeAways. I think EVERY game this year they have had at least 2 takeaways leading to short fields or directly to a TD.

    So if they get their AVERAGE TO this week (which is roughly 3 it is 2.8) say brady & Co only score 1TD and 2 FG off those.. thats 13 points right there.. do you think your D can stop the Pats driving all game from making at least 1 more TD for 20 points? I see the O getting at lest 14 points on their own so that make 27... now subtract 3 for say a MISSED FG and there is 24 points.
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  • Pats fan, we know your team is good. You don't have to convince us. Seattle fans may cheer for a team in a place near Japan, but it doesn't mean we are ill informed about the team that is on the boob tube 24/7. The Extra Special Patriot Network makes sure we know all about every time Tom Brady has a hangnail.

    What we are telling you is that something special is brewing here in Seattle (coffee joke) and win or lose, you are going to think the Ravens team was a finesse squad after this game.

    Hopefully, you will be squaking about how the Patriots were jobbed by the Refs a third time. Because one thing I am learning about Patriot fans is that their team never actually loses games, they only get robbed by Refs.
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  • I fully expect to see one of these calls, and one of these reactions from Brady, on Sunday.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YPZmpp1Wk

    There was one video I saw last year of a HORRIBLE roughing the passer call from the Redskins/Patriots game on London Fletcher. Brady whined so hard and got the call. I wish you guys could see it, it was anti-football at it's finest, conveniently it was taken down though..

    I hope Russell Wilson, no matter how much tenure he gains in the league, never becomes such a pansy.
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