Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson

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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:56 pm
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:52 pm
  • I agree, dunce. His long ball to Tate was his best throw of the year. Nice to see him target Miller, also. HOWEVER.... Carolina isn't a very good defense-and he gave them 7 points. So much improvement needed. Good game, though, overall. There were positive signs.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:21 am
  • bestfightstory wrote:I agree, dunce. His long ball to Tate was his best throw of the year. Nice to see him target Miller, also. HOWEVER.... Carolina isn't a very good defense-and he gave them 7 points. So much improvement needed. Good game, though, overall. There were positive signs.


    Good game, improvement needed. Great throw to Tate, bad throw on the INT. He found Sidney & Zach multiple times, even Doug and Braylon for a change. He's on the right path. I'm BEHIND him.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:48 am
  • OK, I really don't get this abject refusal to acknowledge that our rookie QB is improving. Isn't it obvious that he is? Jeez, some of you sound like the ninnies who were complaining about the replacement refs, without ever acknowledging that the regular refs regularly screw up too. Many of us had unrealistic expectations of him coming into the regular seasons, and then we saw his imperfections. So OK, he isn't perfect. But it seems that many here aren't going to be happy with him until he is.

    I don't get it.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:05 am
  • BlueTalon wrote:OK, I really don't get this abject refusal to acknowledge that our rookie QB is improving. Isn't it obvious that he is? Jeez, some of you sound like the ninnies who were complaining about the replacement refs, without ever acknowledging that the regular refs regularly screw up too. Many of us had unrealistic expectations of him coming into the regular seasons, and then we saw his imperfections. So OK, he isn't perfect. But it seems that many here aren't going to be happy with him until he is.

    I don't get it.


    Who is displaying abject refusal to acknowledge such things? Get them up against The WaLL!
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:39 am
  • Not refusal, I think it's great when ANY player improves. Cheers, praise, and all that rah-rah stuff! I was in the gameday forum just today saying he's playing better (then again, any worse and we would be seeing another loss there).

    No, I just don't think RW should be on the field yet, not until he's improved. The PHX and STL games have already passed. Those were wins, so the only issue is one with PC if you're asking. I have nothing against RW, understand? He may very well be a good QB in the NFL one day, he's just not that right now. Time and experience will tell that tale.

    * I really think the only constant and honest praise still goes to our defense and RB's/Oline. How about some of that? They've been sealing our wins and tempering our losses.
    Last edited by hawkfan1975 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:43 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:What rookies would those be? Out of curiosity.


    To name two in the last couple of years - Weeden and Gabbert.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:01 am
  • I've been behind RW since day one, however I didn't/ don't have high expectations for him this season as I think he will need a full year to rally get going, great if we do something this season but I see next season as our year.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:12 am
  • One can go through and highlights Russell’s progress toward being a poor,average, good, or elite quarterback and (depending which side of the fence you want to stand on) find plenty of evidence to bolster a claim for any of the above. In reality though, we’re comparing what he does to what we think Matt may do. That’s probably not fair, but being fair isn’t a requirement to post on this or any other board.

    The search for a franchise QB is the Holy Grail quest of every team in the NFL. We all want that elusive “guy” that can carry a team when things look the darkest, who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, who’s very presents can will a team to win, or insert any other cliché you want. The point is the search goes on every day, on every team, for as long as they plan on being competitive in the NFL.

    Some teams get “lucky” in the draft, some mortgage their futures, some trade for backups buried deep in the depth charts of other teams who already have “the one”, some are so bad one falls into their laps, and some are destined search for decades. The strange thing is though; you never know you’ve found your pot of gold before it happens.

    Who knew when Miami took the sixth and last QB in the first round of the famous ’83 draft they had a future HoFer, only the most optimistic fan could have believed that. Or San Diego would trade away TWO future MVPs and still end up with their QBOTF? Or when NE traded away their “number one pick in the draft franchise QB”, to start a little known sixth rounder; they would be at the beginning of a dynasty? Or when Green Bay gave up a second round pick for Steve Miller’s backup they would have one of the best QBs to ever play the game?

    The point, of my rambling post, is at this stage we don’t know what we have. Wilson could be Joe Montana or Steve Dils, Tom Brady or Todd Husak and Flynn could be Brett Favre or Jeff Lewis, Drew Brees or Scott Mitchell. What we do know is Pete and John haven’t mortgaged the franchise in their search for our own Holy Grail, they haven’t wasted precious first round capital year after year, and they haven’t searched in vain for decades….YET.

    So can I get behind Russell Wilson, absolutely, he may end up being a Joe Montana or maybe just a Dave Krieg in the making and I (the fans and most likely this franchise) could live with that and be happy.

    And if Matt Flynn is a Kurt Warner waiting in the wings, well I can live with that as well. Can you?
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:24 am
  • FidelisHawk wrote:One can go through and highlights Russell’s progress toward being a poor,average, good, or elite quarterback and (depending which side of the fence you want to stand on) find plenty of evidence to bolster a claim for any of the above. In reality though, we’re comparing what he does to what we think Matt may do. That’s probably not fair, but being fair isn’t a requirement to post on this or any other board.

    The search for a franchise QB is the Holy Grail quest of every team in the NFL. We all want that elusive “guy” that can carry a team when things look the darkest, who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, who’s very presents can will a team to win, or insert any other cliché you want. The point is the search goes on every day, on every team, for as long as they plan on being competitive in the NFL.

    Some teams get “lucky” in the draft, some mortgage their futures, some trade for backups buried deep in the depth charts of other teams who already have “the one”, some are so bad one falls into their laps, and some are destined search for decades. The strange thing is though; you never know you’ve found your pot of gold before it happens.

    Who knew when Miami took the sixth and last QB in the first round of the famous ’83 draft they had a future HoFer, only the most optimistic fan could have believed that. Or San Diego would trade away TWO future MVPs and still end up with their QBOTF? Or when NE traded away their “number one pick in the draft franchise QB”, to start a little known sixth rounder; they would be at the beginning of a dynasty? Or when Green Bay gave up a second round pick for Steve Miller’s backup they would have one of the best QBs to ever play the game?

    The point, of my rambling post, is at this stage we don’t know what we have. Wilson could be Joe Montana or Steve Dils, Tom Brady or Todd Husak and Flynn could be Brett Favre or Jeff Lewis, Drew Brees or Scott Mitchell. What we do know is Pete and John haven’t mortgaged the franchise in their search for our own Holy Grail, they haven’t wasted precious first round capital year after year, and they haven’t searched in vain for decades….YET.

    So can I get behind Russell Wilson, absolutely, he may end up being a Joe Montana or maybe just a Dave Krieg in the making and I (the fans and most likely this franchise) could live with that and be happy.

    And if Matt Flynn is a Kurt Warner waiting in the wings, well I can live with that as well. Can you?


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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:08 am
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:What rookies would those be? Out of curiosity.


    To name two in the last couple of years - Weeden and Gabbert.


    It's time you stopped hating on Weeden. After that first week, he's been looking pretty good. On an even slightly better team he'd be winning. So stop it.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:22 am
  • In fairness Peaches you're an Oklahoma State fan. It's not the most objective debate is it?

    I saw some of the Giants game on red zone and don't think it warrants a change of tact. He'd be doing better in a superior team than Cleveland, but he was drafted to be good quickly - quicker than most rookies given he's approaching 29. And he isn't. That's always been my point.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:16 am
  • I'll get 100% behind Wilson when I see solid evidence he is a better QB then Flynn (this team, this O, this year). Our goal was to improve at the QB position from TJack. Please go look at the numbers, we still haven't done that after 5 games, so our objectives in making changes have not been met.

    Nice to get the W and to see some improvement, but that is not enough given the weakness of the opponents D.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:29 am
  • The haters said he wasn't going downfield. This time he completed several pretty downfield passes, perfectly placed.
    The haters said he couldn't see over the line. This time he appeared to have no sight line problems.
    The haters said he couldn't score in the red zone. This time he completed a 13 yd TD pass in the zone.
    The haters said he couldn't convert on 3rd down. This time he was 7 for 14 on third down.

    I thought it looked just fine. Sit Breno for the first Qtr against the Pats.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:34 am
  • Daddy Love wrote:The haters said he wasn't going downfield. This time he completed several pretty downfield passes, perfectly placed.
    The haters said he couldn't see over the line. This time he appeared to have no sight line problems.
    The haters said he couldn't score in the red zone. This time he completed a 13 yd TD pass in the zone.
    The haters said he couldn't convert on 3rd down. This time he was 7 for 14 on third down.

    I thought it looked just fine. Sit Breno for the first Qtr against the Pats.


    THIS.

    If I came on this site without watching yesterdays game, I swear I would have thought we lost and Wilson threw 3 picks. The pick six was on him, no doubt, but the amount of criticism being put on him right now is bordering on ridiculous. Did ANYONE see the 60 yard bomb he threw right into the hands of Tate? Or his 76% completion percentage? Or his near perfect day throwing on 3rd down?

    Once our offense stops shooting themselves in the foot, this team will be SPECIAL. Y'all are a bunch of negative nancies.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:39 am
  • truehawksfan wrote:I guess we all have our opinions, and he can look at thin gs differently. Is RW makng progress? I think so and I hope he continues to improve because he missed a wide open Baldwin in the endzone that cost the team a TD. And he missed a wide open Tate crossing the middle. Sheesh, the announcers said this and the replays showe, but oh well, if you want to ignore that or dismiss it....hey, it's your choice.

    I, tho, will not.

    Sorry.

    Yes and Newton didnt see wide open receivers, and Rogers didnt see a wide open receiver and Brees did not see a wide open receiver and Rivers didnt see wide open recievers in the end zone. Man you make it sould like only RW doesnt see someone. Nobody is ignoring it. But he doesnt do it any more than any other QB in the league.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:44 am
  • Sorry but I am just not buying that performance as impressive considering how bad Carolina's D is. Wilson needs to start generating touchdowns instead of field goals in the red zone consistently and he will have my support, but until then, we will keep barely winning games that we should win in blowouts and losing to many of the good teams we play. He simply does not impress me with his play, and I am very confident that the team would look better if Flynn was playing.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:53 am
  • Sorry but I am just not buying that performance as impressive considering how bad Carolina's D is.





    That's all I'm sayin'
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:22 am
  • We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack. Now we know TJack couldn't have gotten any better. I hated getting him, but I respect what he did here. Still, Wilson is a rookie and we've taken a step BACK with Wilson under center. The upside is that - and while there is no guarantee - I think we ALL agree that Wilson will one day be much better than TJack ever could be.

    So we took a step backwards this season, when we have the No 1 defense and a top 10 rushing attack, in order to groom Wilson to be the QBOTF. That decision cost us being 5-0 because with TJack's extra 60 yards passing per game after 5 games last year, we'd have beaten both AZ and the Rams. The GB game wouldn't have been as close either. Nor would the Carolina game.

    What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack. That it is quite possible Wilson won the starting job due to Matt Flynn's tendinitis. That TJack was always gone from this team unless either Wilson or Flynn totally flopped, because both QB's have more upside than TJack ever will.

    So, since Flynn was much better than Tjack and TJack would have done better than Wilson these first five games due to Wilson being a rookie, it is pretty much nondebatable that we DO KNOW that Flynn would have been better than Wilson these first five games had he started. And if TJacks 60 yards of extra passing a game would have made us 5-0, then it's safe to say had we started Flynn right now we'd be 5-0.

    Not that what we think will possibly matter. It's all moot now. It's Wilson's job to lose.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:31 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack. Now we know TJack couldn't have gotten any better. I hated getting him, but I respect what he did here. Still, Wilson is a rookie and we've taken a step BACK with Wilson under center. The upside is that - and while there is no guarantee - I think we ALL agree that Wilson will one day be much better than TJack ever could be.

    So we took a step backwards this season, when we have the No 1 defense and a top 10 rushing attack, in order to groom Wilson to be the QBOTF. That decision cost us being 5-0 because with TJack's extra 60 yards passing per game after 5 games last year, we'd have beaten both AZ and the Rams. The GB game wouldn't have been as close either. Nor would the Carolina game.

    What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack. That it is quite possible Wilson won the starting job due to Matt Flynn's tendinitis. That TJack was always gone from this team unless either Wilson or Flynn totally flopped, because both QB's have more upside than TJack ever will.

    So, since Flynn was much better than Tjack and TJack would have done better than Wilson these first five games due to Wilson being a rookie, it is pretty much nondebatable that we DO KNOW that Flynn would have been better than Wilson these first five games had he started. And if TJacks 60 yards of extra passing a game would have made us 5-0, then it's safe to say had we started Flynn right now we'd be 5-0.

    Not that what we think will possibly matter. It's all moot now. It's Wilson's job to lose.


    That "transitive property" crap you're peddling is nothing but speculation.

    Wilson is passing for fewer yards than Jackson did through 5 games last season, yeah. It helps that Jackson was in charge of a no-huddle offense that went pass happy in Weeks 4 and 5 last season. If you compare the first three games of each season to each other, it's a hell of a lot closer. Plus, Wilson is attempting 10 fewer passes per game than Jackson did at the start of last season. Put Wilson in a no-huddle and give him more attempts per game, and sure, you might see his numbers improve.

    But that doesn't seem to be the kind of offensive identity that the team wants to adopt, and last year's performances bear that out. The team didn't start stringing together wins until it abandoned the pass-happy, big yardage offense and switched to a run-heavy offense that limited the passing attempts and yardage. Look at the stretch last season when Seattle won 5 of 6. The most passing yardage in any of those games? 226. And the attempts per game ranged from 16 to 34, with the average being well below the 35 attempts per game in the first 5 games of the season.

    This obsession with yards per game is retarded.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:32 am
  • Did anyone else notice he threw behind his receivers on those interceptions? I think he did but will have to watch again to be sure.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:43 am
  • Terpdragon wrote:Did anyone else notice he threw behind his receivers on those interceptions? I think he did but will have to watch again to be sure.


    Yes, clearly. People can refer to it as a"fluke", but the Lynch int. (although should have been caught), was behind him off his back hip into tight coverage. This will happen to every QB in the league from time to time...and they all count.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:46 am
  • JSeahawks wrote:100% agree. I would love to put all the QB debate behind us. Unfortunatly I dont think its going to happen.


    The debate will never be behind us until Wilson plays consistently well each and every week.

    I love my Hawks, but it's very frustrating to watch our offense when our defense is so damn good.........and I know it's not all on Wilson. Stupid penalties, poor pass blocking, WR's that can't beat one on one coverage, dropped passes. There's a lot of blame to go around. But the bottom line is if we want to make the playoffs, the offense has to pick it up. We can't keep trying to eek out wins on the last drive. This team has to start putting other teams away, not let bad teams hang around.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:06 am
  • Verndog wrote:
    Terpdragon wrote:Did anyone else notice he threw behind his receivers on those interceptions? I think he did but will have to watch again to be sure.


    Yes, clearly. People can refer to it as a"fluke", but the Lynch int. (although should have been caught), was behind him off his back hip into tight coverage. This will happen to every QB in the league from time to time...and they all count.


    Actually agree with you, Sugarpants. That Lynch fumble had alot to do with RW making a bad decision. However, it's only bad decision BECAUSE the RB's, WR's and TE' are still learning how to play with RW. Lynch wan't expecting it, but he will now.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:15 am
  • Wilson showed improvement for sure and a lot of his big plays were negated by penalties but I’m not back to drinking the Wilson coolaid just yet. He owes this win to Brandon Browner, or we would be talking about how he’s not the immediate answer for this offense, this year. Many missed opportunities. 3 pts in the red zone when we have a very good running game is not going to cut it against a team like the Pats. The 3-2 record means nothing because that would be the baseline record with our #1 Defense, with any other quarterback including TJack.

    Now this week is going to be a tough task. The Patriots have a quick passing attack and a solid RB in Ridley. Our D’s weakness may be the quick passing game. As the top offense in the NFL, they’re going to get their points. If Wilson can at least keep this game close, we’ll talk about getting behind him 100%. If not, the controversy continues.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:51 am
  • This obsession with yards per game is retarded.


    +1
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:58 am
  • Daddy Love wrote:
    This obsession with yards per game is retarded.


    +1


    I'm not obsessed with yards, I'm obsessed with points........as in Wilson has a hard time scoring them.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:07 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack.

    What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack.

    Do you know what else we KNOW? Flynn couldn't take the job in open competition and beat the rookie when it counted.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:15 am
  • geez, the Lynch fumble should have been a reception for positive yards, saying anything else is just saying Lynch is a second rate varsity type player, he knows he had that ball, it happens
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:22 am
  • BlueTalon wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack.

    What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack.

    Do you know what else we KNOW? Flynn couldn't take the job in open competition and beat the rookie when it counted.


    Don't confuse the word didn't with couldn't. ;)

    Flynn is capable, make no mistake. He clearly beat out Tjack, and much can be said about his numbers vs Wilsons numbers, who they played, and with what receivers and running game...ect.

    All that is water under the bridge at this point though, and what now is important is who gives us the best chance TODAY. There is no clear answer, so this WILL continue.

    This goes way beyond yards. Look at all the numbers, points, int's, QB rating, 1st downs, ect...TJack was better through 5 games with a worse Oline. Ohh...and we beat the SB champ Giants in game 5 last year.

    People need to quit comparing Wilson to other rookies and start comparing him to who he is replacing, and who is on the bench...otherwise they are the ones being "retarded".
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:36 am
  • Verndog wrote:
    BlueTalon wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack.

    What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack.

    Do you know what else we KNOW? Flynn couldn't take the job in open competition and beat the rookie when it counted.


    Don't confuse the word didn't with couldn't. ;)



    Flynn could've beat out Aaron Rodgers for the starting spot as the GB QB, but didn't. Hypothetical limits are fun, aren't they? Except where they meet reality, of course.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:41 am
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Flynn could've beat out Aaron Rodgers for the starting spot as the GB QB, but didn't. Hypothetical limits are fun, aren't they? Except where they meet reality, of course.


    Sample size of 4 full seasons vs 3 halves pre season games is worth this comment?...Please. :roll:
    I made a valid point...you sir did not.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:41 am
  • For those pleased with the offense improvement, let me ask one question. Did you see the Giants play the Panthers in Carolina on Thursday Night? The Panthers Defense was getting absolutely destroyed by backup receivers on the Giants. The game was so bad that they took Manning out in the 4th quarter. It looked like at times the Panthers had 9 guys on the field. Now this same Pather D came out against our fully healthy offense and held us to 1 TD and scored a defensive TD.

    This offense is still a problem, it was just less apparent against this mediocre D. I am done on this subject for the week so mods no need to send me PMs for being negative...
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:43 am
  • Verndog wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Flynn could've beat out Aaron Rodgers for the starting spot as the GB QB, but didn't. Hypothetical limits are fun, aren't they? Except where they meet reality, of course.


    Sample size of 4 full seasons vs 3 halves pre season games is worth this comment?...Please. :roll:


    Only because you and the rest of the Flynnatics take the for granted your assumption that Flynn is the better of the two QBs.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:49 am
  • edogg23 wrote:This offense is still a problem, it was just less apparent against this mediocre D. I am done on this subject for the week so mods no need to send me PMs for being negative...


    Not according to Carrolls comments today. "Wilson played a fantastic game".

    Wow...we are in REAL trouble if he believes that. :179422:
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:50 am
  • edogg23 wrote:For those pleased with the offense improvement, let me ask one question. Did you see the Giants play the Panthers in Carolina on Thursday Night? The Panthers Defense was getting absolutely destroyed by backup receivers on the Giants. The game was so bad that they took Manning out in the 4th quarter. It looked like at times the Panthers had 9 guys on the field. Now this same Pather D came out against our fully healthy offense and held us to 1 TD and scored a defensive TD.

    This offense is still a problem, it was just less apparent against this mediocre D. I am done on this subject for the week so mods no need to send me PMs for being negative...


    Let me ask you one question. Do you think that those who are pleased at the improvement do not desire further improvement and are perfectly content for the offense to remain at this level of production forever and ever?

    Or, perhaps, do you think they appreciate seeing progress - a step forward from last week to this week - and anticipate that continued experience and work will lead to more progress?

    Okay, so maybe that was two questions.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:53 am
  • I don't know why y'all try with these guys, its never going to register for them.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:55 am
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Only because you and the rest of the Flynnatics take the for granted your assumption that Flynn is the better of the two QBs.


    Lies. You should read twice and post once.

    Verndog wrote:... what now is important is who gives us the best chance TODAY. There is no clear answer, so this WILL continue.


    What did I just assume again?? :?:
    All I've asked for is what is wrong with giving him a shot.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 pm
  • Verndog wrote:All I've asked for is what is wrong with giving him a shot.


    I'll answer.

    Putting Flynn in takes development time away from Wilson, and Wilson has shown more potential with THIS team than Flynn has - in practice and on the field.

    I do not believe for a second that Flynn would put up even remotely similar numbers with THIS team that he did in one game against Detroit, playing with an outstanding WR corps in Green Bay.

    I do not believe for a second that Carroll and Bevell would give Flynn a more wide-open passing game than they're giving Wilson. They would clamp down on him the same way they did with Wilson, and the same way they did with Jackson, and the same way they did with Hasselbeck.

    In other words, I do not believe - at ALL - that putting Flynn in the lineup would result in a vastly improved passing game or a more explosive offense.

    What I DO believe is that putting Flynn in would signal to the team, its fanbase, and everyone watching that Seattle is second-guessing itself and that it can't commit to one guy at the most crucial position on the team. It would signal a lack of faith in a guy they hand-picked. And yes, I believe that Wilson was a hand-picked potential franchise QB while Flynn was a fallback option in case the FO didn't get the guy they wanted. I believe that Wilson's work ethic, arm, and mobility all outrank Flynn's, and that those things are all reasons why Wilson won the starting job in the first place.

    I also believe that Wilson needs experience to become a bonafide top-flight starting QB, and that putting Flynn in prevents this without giving us any value in return. I believe that 2013 is where Seattle's SB window is truly and fully open - with more experience for the O-line and perhaps a playmaker at WR - and that this year is crucial for Wilson to gain experience so the offense hits on all cylinders next season. Please don't, however, think that I'm talking about throwing this season away. I think we can still make a run, since anything can happen on any given Sunday. But I think we're better situated for 2013, and that we must get our franchise QB the necessary experience for that to happen. Plus, I disagree that Flynn would be any sort of upgrade, so a developing Wilson is still the top QB on the team.

    THAT is what's wrong with giving Flynn a shot.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:12 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Verndog wrote:I do not believe for a second that Flynn would put up even remotely similar numbers with THIS team that he did in one game against Detroit, playing with an outstanding WR corps in Green Bay.


    I don't think anyone's saying Flynn would put up similar numbers.

    What some of us are saying is that RIGHT NOW, in 2012 Flynn gives the passing offense a better chance of succeeding over a rookie that's finding his way in the league.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:13 pm
  • Verndog wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Only because you and the rest of the Flynnatics take the for granted your assumption that Flynn is the better of the two QBs.


    Lies. You should read twice and post once.

    Verndog wrote:... what now is important is who gives us the best chance TODAY. There is no clear answer, so this WILL continue.


    What did I just assume again?? :?:
    All I've asked for is what is wrong with giving him a shot.


    This is a disingenuous argument as your assumption is a constant undercurrent in the past 4 weeks of your posts.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:15 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Verndog wrote:I do not believe for a second that Flynn would put up even remotely similar numbers with THIS team that he did in one game against Detroit, playing with an outstanding WR corps in Green Bay.


    I don't think anyone's saying Flynn would put up similar numbers.

    What some of us are saying is that RIGHT NOW, in 2012 Flynn gives the passing offense a better chance of succeeding over a rookie that's finding his way in the league.


    Why? Because of his massive experience? Because of his outstanding arm? Because the coaching staff would suddenly have a change of heart and say, "Go sling it, kid" to Flynn when they haven't demonstrated that willingness with ANY other QB they've EVER had on the roster?
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:22 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:In other words, I do not believe - at ALL - that putting Flynn in the lineup would result in a vastly improved passing game or a more explosive offense.

    What I DO believe is that putting Flynn in would signal to the team, its fanbase, and everyone watching that Seattle is second-guessing itself and that it can't commit to one guy at the most crucial position on the team.


    1) There does not need to be "vast' improvement to turn those 2 losses to W's. Minor improvement is all that is needed, with potentially better vision and better reads/ reacts that could be done. Also not being scared to throw a tight pass in the redzone may help. :idea:

    2) Why would Carroll say he thinks the QB competition continues over and over. His whole theme of compete every game and every week, best man plays gets over ruled to develop a rookie QB? Wilson doesn't have an expiration tag...not for 4 years at least...there just is NO hurry.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:25 pm
  • Verndog wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:In other words, I do not believe - at ALL - that putting Flynn in the lineup would result in a vastly improved passing game or a more explosive offense.

    What I DO believe is that putting Flynn in would signal to the team, its fanbase, and everyone watching that Seattle is second-guessing itself and that it can't commit to one guy at the most crucial position on the team.


    1) There does not need to be "vast' improvement to turn those 2 losses to W's. Minor improvement is all that is needed, with potentially better vision and better reads/ reacts that could be done. Also not being scared to throw a tight pass in the redzone may help. :idea:

    2) Why would Carroll say he thinks the QB competition continues over and over. His whole theme of compete every game and every week, best man plays gets over ruled to develop a rookie QB? Wilson doesn't have an expiration tag...not for 4 years at least...there just is NO hurry.


    1. I do not think Flynn represents minor improvement. I don't think he represents an upgrade in any way.

    2. Carroll may talk competition, but he has demonstrated that he will stick with his starting QB unless injury forces his hand. Hasselbeck in 2010 and Jackson in 2011 had some stretches of bad play, but we never saw the backup come in.

    Oh, personally, I think the best man IS playing.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:27 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:This is a disingenuous argument as your assumption is a constant undercurrent in the past 4 weeks of your posts.


    Really? So I didn't really jump on the Wilson bandwagon as accused? :?
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:28 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Why? Because of his massive experience? Because of his outstanding arm? Because the coaching staff would suddenly have a change of heart and say, "Go sling it, kid" to Flynn when they haven't demonstrated that willingness with ANY other QB they've EVER had on the roster?


    No, and yes.

    Flynn is more experienced, which means he knows how to read defenses better. He knows how to work through progressions faster. He knows when to change plays at the line better..........and yes this all means that more of the playbook would be used for Flynn.

    Here's the deal. All Carroll is asking out of his QB right now is to manage games, which translates to "don't screw up, make a couple plays and let your defense dominate." So which QB right now is better at managing the game? Certainly not a rookie.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:31 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Why? Because of his massive experience? Because of his outstanding arm? Because the coaching staff would suddenly have a change of heart and say, "Go sling it, kid" to Flynn when they haven't demonstrated that willingness with ANY other QB they've EVER had on the roster?


    No, and yes.

    Flynn is more experienced, which means he knows how to read defenses better. He knows how to work through progressions faster. He knows when to change plays at the line better..........and yes this all means that more of the playbook would be used for Flynn.

    Here's the deal. All Carroll is asking out of his QB right now is to manage games, which translates to "don't screw up, make a couple plays and let your defense dominate." So which QB right now is better at managing the game? Certainly not a rookie.


    Bollocks. Flynn has 4 years of bench sitting. Where has Jim Sorgi's long bench sitting behind Manning gotten him?
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:35 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:Oh, personally, I think the best man IS playing.


    They thought the same thing in Arizona after naming Skelton the starter.

    Go have a look at Kolb's numbers...I'll be some are thanking us for getting their #2 in there. ;)
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:35 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Bollocks. Flynn has 4 years of bench sitting. Where has Jim Sorgi's long bench sitting behind Manning gotten him?


    Well if you can't realize that a 4th year QB coming from arguably the best QB'ing team in the NFL is more adept at the nuances of the position like reading defenses and knowing where to go with the ball over a rookie with zero experience in those areas, then this conversation is over.

    I'm not denying that Wilson has a better upside. But NOW, in 2012 he is not more equipped to run this offense over someone like Matt Flynn. Period.
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Re: Time to GET BEHIND Russell Wilson
Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:36 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Bollocks. Flynn has 4 years of bench sitting. Where has Jim Sorgi's long bench sitting behind Manning gotten him?


    Well if you can't realize that a 4th year QB coming from arguably the best QB'ing team in the NFL is more adept at the nuances of the position like reading defenses and knowing where to go with the ball over a rookie with zero experience in those areas, then this conversation is over.

    I'm not denying that Wilson has a better upside. But NOW, in 2012 he is not more equipped to run this offense over someone like Matt Flynn. Period.


    Unles he is, because of the very first sentence in the bolded part.
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