Interesting - from Hawkblogger

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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:47 pm
  • Bunch of grumpy britches!

    :229031_shrug:
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:51 pm
  • AgentDib wrote:I have to agree with Scott that still frames are not persuasive on two counts.

    1. No QB in the league keeps track of all of his receivers all of the time, instead they go through a series of progressions planned ahead of time. This would be extremely valuable if it was video showing the reads Wilson was making, what coverage he was looking at, and where he should have gone with the ball. Any decent analysis does just that. We have heard a few breakdowns where Wilson made the wrong read and so it is likely a real issue, but nothing in these stills is a smoking gun.

    2. Every WR in the NFL will get open after a few seconds unless they completely give up on the play. The typical NFL pocket is supposed to last for just 2.5 seconds and what matters is whether the receiver is open in the single moment when the QB is looking his way.


    Listen to what Millen has to say while looking at the stills. It's pretty awesome analysis.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 pm
  • Yet more evidence that nothing is ever Wilson's fault. The anti-T-Jack effect.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 pm
  • bestfightstory wrote:Yet more evidence that nothing is ever Wilson's fault. The anti-T-Jack effect.


    :mrgreen:
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:06 pm
  • Hey Folks,

    I had one goal when I started the article: make up my own mind whether receivers are getting open or Wilson is suffering due to no options

    I consciously decided not to insert my own analysis into each play. I encourage all of you that have access to NFL Rewind to go back and watch as many of these plays as you can by yourself, and make up your own mind. Those that believe the stills are out of context, may very well be surprised by what they see. I have a full-time job, so breaking down each play with multiple shots or video just was not feasible. The stills gave me the evidence I needed (after watching the film) to make up my mind.

    When I hear people defending Wilson (or any player) by pointing the finger elsewhere, I always try to come to my own conclusion instead of accepting it blindly. If people have solid evidence that indicates the receivers are the major problem in the passing game, please let me know. I welcome alternative points of view, but prefer that they are backed up with evidence. It is easy to pick apart an argument, but much harder to build one.

    Thanks for reading. Truly appreciate it.

    Go Hawks!
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    Last edited by hawkblogger on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:09 pm
  • hawkblogger wrote:Hey Folks,

    I had one goal when I started the article: make up my own mind whether receivers are getting open or Wilson is suffering due to no options

    I consciously decided not to insert my own analysis into each play. I encourage all of you that have access to NFL Rewind to go back and watch as many of these plays as you can by yourself, and make up your own mind. Those that believe the stills are out of context, may very well be surprised by what they see. I have a full-time job, so breaking down each play with multiple shots or video just was not feasible. The stills gave me the evidence I needed (after watching the film) to make up my mind.

    When I hear people defending Wilson (or any player) by pointing the finger elsewhere, I always try to come to my own conclusion instead of accepting it blindly.

    Thanks for reading. Truly appreciate it.

    Go Hawks!
    Brian


    Thank you.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:15 pm
  • drdiags wrote:It doesn't pay well for sponsors I suppose but having one of those "Knox Talks Hawks" reviews of plays on an hour show would be worth gold to me. Knox drove me crazy with that damn clicker though.


    Ha! I remember those (yes on the clicker. God yes).
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:16 pm
  • hawkblogger wrote:Hey Folks,

    I had one goal when I started the article: make up my own mind whether receivers are getting open or Wilson is suffering due to no options

    I consciously decided not to insert my own analysis into each play. I encourage all of you that have access to NFL Rewind to go back and watch as many of these plays as you can by yourself, and make up your own mind. Those that believe the stills are out of context, may very well be surprised by what they see. I have a full-time job, so breaking down each play with multiple shots or video just was not feasible. The stills gave me the evidence I needed (after watching the film) to make up my mind.

    When I hear people defending Wilson (or any player) by pointing the finger elsewhere, I always try to come to my own conclusion instead of accepting it blindly. If people have solid evidence that indicates the receivers are the major problem in the passing game, please let me know. I welcome alternative points of view, but prefer that they are backed up with evidence. It is easy to pick apart an argument, but much harder to build one.

    Thanks for reading. Truly appreciate it.

    Go Hawks!
    Brian


    It was excellent, thank you. And I couldn't agree more with your statement above.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:17 pm
  • bestfightstory wrote:Yet more evidence that nothing is ever Wilson's fault. The anti-T-Jack effect.

    Nah, Wilson is making a ton of mistakes. I am just saying that we could post still frame shots from every QB and say he misses open receivers. The Green Bay game, I saw a few posted after the game that showed Rodgers missing open guys. Still frames of all 22 have little context most of the time.
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Re: Interetsing - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:24 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

    All due respect, but you don't necessarily know that. The pictures show good plays and some bad reads. Why shouldn't Miller not be accountable for that? I'm not one of the people shouting for his head, mind you.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:03 pm
  • OK, so here is the deal. No one who posts on the internet in regards to these offensive problems knows what the play calls were. No one knows who the ball is supposed to be going to or whether Wilson has the freedom to make multiple reads. Jackson was not making multiple reads and everyone wanted Charlie. Charlie wasn't making multiple reads and everyone wanted his head. Hass was not making multiple reads early in his season with Pete and everyone knew that Pete wasn't trusting Hass to do what Hass does.

    Carroll has admitted that this is his fault, and all the conspiracy theorists are saying that Pete is simply taking the heat for his rookie QB. Maybe just maybe Pete is telling the truth.

    I have been the only I have seen so far to bring up the fact that we have had four different line combinations in four games. This is a team sport more than any other in the fact that you need to know where your teammates are and how they are handling their assignment. Until Wilson actually has a little stability in the lineup around him, he shouldn't be thrown under the bus. He is a rookie and there will be growing pains. The lack of patience from the fans brought about the Dilfer chants and the Charlie chants, and neither of them were the right thing to do.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:09 pm
  • bestfightstory wrote:Yet more evidence that nothing is ever Wilson's fault. The anti-T-Jack effect.


    Exactly.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:11 pm
  • BASF wrote:Carroll has admitted that this is his fault, and all the conspiracy theorists are saying that Pete is simply taking the heat for his rookie QB. Maybe just maybe Pete is telling the truth.


    So Carroll is bailing into pressure, missing open receivers, not moving the chains on 3rd down, and throwing as many ints as TD's??

    Damn...I knew it couldn't have anything to do with starting a rookie. :?
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:19 pm
  • That is pretty interesting......the receivers are open more than I though they would or have been.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:29 pm
  • BASF wrote:OK, so here is the deal. No one who posts on the internet in regards to these offensive problems knows what the play calls were. No one knows who the ball is supposed to be going to or whether Wilson has the freedom to make multiple reads. Jackson was not making multiple reads and everyone wanted Charlie. Charlie wasn't making multiple reads and everyone wanted his head. Hass was not making multiple reads early in his season with Pete and everyone knew that Pete wasn't trusting Hass to do what Hass does.

    Carroll has admitted that this is his fault, and all the conspiracy theorists are saying that Pete is simply taking the heat for his rookie QB. Maybe just maybe Pete is telling the truth.

    I have been the only I have seen so far to bring up the fact that we have had four different line combinations in four games. This is a team sport more than any other in the fact that you need to know where your teammates are and how they are handling their assignment. Until Wilson actually has a little stability in the lineup around him, he shouldn't be thrown under the bus. He is a rookie and there will be growing pains. The lack of patience from the fans brought about the Dilfer chants and the Charlie chants, and neither of them were the right thing to do.

    Any QB worth his salt will make multiple reads, one simply does not survive in the NFL by making only one read, and then bailing on the play. Manning, Brady, and yes even guys like Andrew Luck always have their heads moving around. Not going through progressions is not a flaw in the system, it is a flaw in the player. I notice guys like Brady rarely have their first option open unless it is on a quick hit play. If a player does not learn to go through his progressions he won't succeed in the NFL, period.

    I feel with Wilson his main problem is his stature in this regard. I noticed he has trouble seeing the middle of the field, and a few other areas depending on where he is in the pocket. This is something that can be migated, but only by one thing, and that is pocket presence. I would say 80% of Drew Brees's successs comes from his ability to manipulate the pocket. He is always aware of where the pass rushers, and where his blockers are. He uses this knowledge to not only clear defenders, but read defenses, and if you notice he is always moving around the pocket, but in subtle ways. If Wilson wants to be succesful in the NFL this is the only way he will do it.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:31 pm
  • Blitzer88 wrote:That is pretty interesting......the receivers are open more than I though they would or have been.


    It's been that way all year.

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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:34 pm
  • Great read and the audio's are very good listening. Of the two I like the info that Millen presented. Moon really seemed like he was wanting to pull a Zanary and blame anyone but Wilson and Moon definitely sounds way to in love with Wilson to be unbiased.

    I think the thing about Moon that has been a turn off for me lately is he doesn't even come off as a fan of the Seahawks and there has been some examples of that recently talked about in these forums. Kind of the Zanary affect again, to hung up on the player to even consider he "could" be the problem.

    Millen's breakdown of how perfect Wilson will have to be (comparing him to Brees) is an eye opener as to why it may have been a better idea to let him learn from the sidelines for a little while instead of forcing him into a nearly no win situation. That being based on expectations of perfection as a rookie.

    I have a feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:39 pm
  • That blog proves the point that the kid is not ready for the NFL. Flynn may not be far better, but i guarantee you he would have found tose open WR's...jesus, a blind person could find them. Wilson size is an issue, even though people don't want to admit it. The kid has it all, but when your depending on throwing lanes and can't see the whole field, you are doomed to fail. No matter how good yoou are. Look at Tebow, he is a proven winner, he is a stud. But my grandmother can throw a better pass.
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Re: Interetsing - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:40 pm
  • MysterMatt wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

    All due respect, but you don't necessarily know that. The pictures show good plays and some bad reads. Why shouldn't Miller not be accountable for that? I'm not one of the people shouting for his head, mind you.


    Do you mean Wilson?
    I can't stand Hugh Millen, but he was actually having a fair moment today when he said you could watch the all 22 as see Drew Brees miss open guys all the time.

    Hawkblogger is trying to disprove something people say, but don't quantify. When people say Seattle's receivers don't get open, they cannot possibly mean all the time. That would be stupid. Proving them wrong when they are overstating a comparative statement proves very little.

    I want to win just as much as anybody. If Pete benches Wilson, I am fine with that. This particular blogger has been extremely vocal in his opposition to our current starter. If Flynn does become the starter, I would expect these same still shots. I am willing to go out on a limb right now and say they would look very similar.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:50 pm
  • kmedic wrote:Take a listen to Hugh Millen break down the last interception when McCoy slipped while looking at the stills that Hawkblogger provides. Everyone has been saying it wasn't Wilson's fault that McCoy slipped and he didn't deserve the INT but after listening to this breakdown and looking at the stills, Wilson clearly made the wrong read and throw. Baldwin was WIDE OPEN down the middle!!

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/10/3/344 ... arren-moon

    I'm willing to endure Wilson for a few more games but if he continues to make level 101 mistakes like these that lead to bad losses like last week then I really think we need to get Flynn in there.



    Wait a minute... HUGH MILLEN was being negative about Russell Wilson?

    No way man... that's impossible.

    I definitely haven't heard THAT kind of analysis before. Give me a second so I can run over to the radio and listen to these golden words of wisdom.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:59 pm
  • A picture says 1000 words. This Pic taken at camp shows the difference in height to 6-2 Flynn 6-2 Jackson 5-10 5/8 Wilson. Flynn is a bit behind and Jackson a bit in front. Somewhere between is what Wilson gives up to a "short" 6-2 QB.

    So, you take Carrolls command to stay and step up into pocket and now you have a short QB even closer to the obstacle blocking his vision with less lateral movement possible to find the lane. This is not good.

    This is a big reason Wilson needs to slide, and bails often. It worked great for him in college and he was very successful. You restrict his movement...and everything changes. They need to roll him more, play action to freeze more, and turn him loose if they want the most from him IMO.

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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:07 pm
  • Is this really what it's come to on Seahawks.net? Really?

    Here's a novel idea - let's support the guy who's starting and hope the team wins on Sunday. HOW ABOUT THAT???
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:13 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Is this really what it's come to on Seahawks.net? Really?

    Here's a novel idea - let's support the guy who's starting and hope the team wins on Sunday. HOW ABOUT THAT???


    You mean like the way you did Hasselbeck?

    Yeah I guess hypocritical works better when it serves your agenda.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:13 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Is this really what it's come to on Seahawks.net? Really?

    Here's a novel idea - let's support the guy who's starting and hope the team wins on Sunday. HOW ABOUT THAT???



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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:14 pm
  • Verndog wrote:A picture says 1000 words. This Pic taken at camp shows the difference in height to 6-2 Flynn 6-2 Jackson 5-10 5/8 Wilson. Flynn is a bit behind and Jackson a bit in front. Somewhere between is what Wilson gives up to a "short" 6-2 QB.

    So, you take Carrolls command to stay and step up into pocket and now you have a short QB even closer to the obstacle blocking his vision with less lateral movement possible to find the lane. This is not good.

    This is a big reason Wilson needs to slide, and bails often. It worked great for him in college and he was very successful. You restrict his movement...and everything changes. They need to roll him more, play action to freeze more, and turn him loose if they want the most from him IMO.

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    It also highlights another huge problem - Carroll's damn QB circus and the lack of reps Wilson got with his WRs.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:15 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Is this really what it's come to on Seahawks.net? Really?

    Here's a novel idea - let's support the guy who's starting and hope the team wins on Sunday. HOW ABOUT THAT???


    I'll remember that in 2 weeks when Flynn starts and you say ANYTHING negative on his performance. ;)

    They are all being payed, and are part of the team, why not support them all and attempt to find solutions to problems?
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:17 pm
  • Verndog wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Is this really what it's come to on Seahawks.net? Really?

    Here's a novel idea - let's support the guy who's starting and hope the team wins on Sunday. HOW ABOUT THAT???


    I'll remember that in 2 weeks when Flynn starts and you say ANYTHING negative on his performance. ;)

    They are all being payed, and are part of the team, why not support them all and attempt to find solutions to problems?


    Because it doesn't serve his agenda, Duh!! Are you new or sumpin!!! :sarcasm_off:
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:22 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:I feel with Wilson his main problem is his stature in this regard. I noticed he has trouble seeing the middle of the field, and a few other areas depending on where he is in the pocket. This is something that can be migated, but only by one thing, and that is pocket presence. I would say 80% of Drew Brees's successs comes from his ability to manipulate the pocket. He is always aware of where the pass rushers, and where his blockers are. He uses this knowledge to not only clear defenders, but read defenses, and if you notice he is always moving around the pocket, but in subtle ways. If Wilson wants to be succesful in the NFL this is the only way he will do it.


    Umm, nope. Brees will admit he cant see 50% of what's going on. His receivers know this and run to spots, like spots within a few inches.

    Brees also misses ALOT of receivers that taller QB's would hit. ALOT.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:45 pm
  • Thanks for checking in Hawkblogger! Unfortunately there will be those that remember only what serves them. I personally have read most of your posts over the last several months and agree you have been very supportive of Wilson...once the shock wore off. ;)

    Keep up the great work. Really liked your "improved" team power ranking formula, pretty creative.

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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:01 pm
  • Ha! The shock was about the decision, not the player. Lots of assumptions were made about why I was so angry. Unfortunately, it's not something I can share, but next time I will avoid venting publicly. Lesson learned.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:07 pm
  • Lol someone REALLY posted Hugh Millen audio?

    The same guy where if hasselbeck threw a pick it was the receivers fault 100% of the time? Same dude who thought the world of Jim Mora? FOH

    edited, autocorrect can die
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:12 pm
  • Ya, the way the whole thing came down seemed awful sudden...but Wilson put up the numbers in G3 that were hard to dispute. What I don't get is it seemed that Flynn was clearly the front runner coming out of camp, and all the sudden the decision after the hot game. I wonder still how much was "injury" related. Is there any way to know the scoring of the competition, and who was leading what and when, and how close they were?

    Interested in just how this worked.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:36 pm
  • Great discussion. I think both sides are right. Wilson is missing reads, but even great QBs miss reads all the time, so it's hard to tell exactly how good/bad Wilson is in this regard. I also think it's accurate to say that our WRs are not abysmal. Separation is not the main culprit, and fairly often our receivers are wide open and not targeted.

    I also think that this particular Hawkblogger post was not trying to push agenda of any kind. I for one am thankful for the extra information.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:46 pm
  • Just listened to Hugh Millens take on Wilson. Thank you for posting it for the rest of us to enjoy. I don't like that way some here are attacking Millen because he is down on WIlson. The guy made sense, i used game rewind to watch everything he was talking about and this guy was spot on. For example, everyone is truly saying that 3rd int was not Wilson's fault. Watch the damn tape. Baldwin was open over the middle for an easy first down. Wilson went to the TE and we all know how that turned out. Wilson made the wrong read. It may be he couldn't even see Baldwin. So that is a major issue. Had it been Flynn in that game he would have hit Baldwin for the first down. I know this because i watched him play the Lions last yr and he made that exact over the middle throw. The problem here is that everyone is in love with WIlson. Even Millen uses him to motive his own children. Everyone loves the kid, but it is looking more and more likely with every game he plays that his size is a much bigger issue then anyone wants to admit. We need to accept the fact that this kid is probably the next Seneca Wallace and move on with Flynn. This team is ripe for a winning season now. Top Defense, Top running game. We have wr's who ARE getting open as the tapes show. That was why we where all so pissed at Tjack, the guy couldn't get the ball to the wr's even when they where open. Now we go get one who can in Flynn and we are trying to make some kind if miracle happen. It isn't going to end well. It is a fairytale ending everyone is looking for that can't happen. It isn't Wilson's fault he can't see the field of play in front of him. It is what it is and it is time we move on with Flynn. At least give Flynn a shot. I will tell you this. The next time we are losing a game and Wilson has 2+ int's (which will happen many times this yr) we need to put in Flynn and see how well he moves the chains. I said it before, i will say it again. Flynn had more yards, T'd and less Int's in one game last year then Wilson has in 4 games. Why some are down on Flynn is a mystery to me. Also stop bring up the pre-season. What a joke that was, they give Flynn no one to throw to but that loser TO who dropped everything thrown his way over 2 games. That is not a fair accessment of Flynn's ability. WHile at the same time everyone went crazy over what WIlson did. Yet Wilson did it against 3rd and 4th string players. The KC games a was a fluck. It will always be that until he can repeat it in realtime, real games that count.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:50 pm
  • any discrepancies towards Wilson must come from the top, not the media, experts, or blogs, only they know exactly what Wilson was supposed to do at any given moment, anything else is pure speculation
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:55 pm
  • I would rather listen to a Hall of Fame QB.. Bottom line.. Not sure how to put this but bluntly... Wilson is the best QB on the roster. That HAS been established by the coaches (not just pete). He won the competition. So we can live in fantasy land and cheer for Flynn (ala Charlie Whitehurst) or get behind our starting QB. Sorry to put it so bluntly but this is getting ridiculous. Hawksblogger, hogbloger i don't care. Listen to Warren Moon.. He is with the team on daily basis and he seen both and clearly Wilson is THE man for this team. Hasselbeck was clearly the MAN but it took awhile so untie your panties and get a grip.. lol
    end of rant..

    BTW Millen is a hack.. He was saying Flynn had the release of Dan Marino in the preseason. Come on really? how could you say that with a straight face. Miami passed on Flynn. Nothing against Flynn but he is what he is.. a very nice back up. Millan is trying to save face now.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:35 am
  • kmedic wrote:Take a listen to Hugh Millen break down the last interception when McCoy slipped while looking at the stills that Hawkblogger provides. Everyone has been saying it wasn't Wilson's fault that McCoy slipped and he didn't deserve the INT but after listening to this breakdown and looking at the stills, Wilson clearly made the wrong read and throw. Baldwin was WIDE OPEN down the middle!!

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/10/3/344 ... arren-moon

    I'm willing to endure Wilson for a few more games but if he continues to make level 101 mistakes like these that lead to bad losses like last week then I really think we need to get Flynn in there.


    Something Hugh Millen said was very interesting. He was quoting Drew Brees who told people in New Orleans:

    "Don't give me a hard time about guys being wide open, I'm going through my progressions. But the wide receivers have to be precise and in the right position at the correct time.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:48 am
  • ivotuk wrote:
    kmedic wrote:Take a listen to Hugh Millen break down the last interception when McCoy slipped while looking at the stills that Hawkblogger provides. Everyone has been saying it wasn't Wilson's fault that McCoy slipped and he didn't deserve the INT but after listening to this breakdown and looking at the stills, Wilson clearly made the wrong read and throw. Baldwin was WIDE OPEN down the middle!!

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/10/3/344 ... arren-moon

    I'm willing to endure Wilson for a few more games but if he continues to make level 101 mistakes like these that lead to bad losses like last week then I really think we need to get Flynn in there.


    Something Hugh Millen said was very interesting. He was quoting Drew Brees who told people in New Orleans:

    "Don't give me a hard time about guys being wide open, I'm going through my progressions. But the wide receivers have to be precise and in the right position at the correct time.


    A very important point - if getting open was all that mattered, you would just tell WRs to go out and "get into space" and let the QB find them. Instead, they run plays which rely on the QB and WR being on the same page at all times, the WR might be wide open 6 seconds into the play, but if he was supposed to be wide open 4 seconds into the play and wasn't, then the QB is going to move onto his next read.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:08 am
  • Brees also said it needs to be perfect in every fashion. That is something that is extremely difficult to learn so add that to the rookie learning curve and you have a recipe for disaster. It is exactly why many here and everywhere else waned to let Wilson acclimate part of the game from the bench. Learn to read defenses and gain chemistry over time with his receivers.

    Millen makes an excellent point about how difficult Brees job is and why we should expect significant time for that type of play.

    I believe Wilson can get there but it won't be for several years and in the mean time we are throwing games away waiting. This team is ready now with the exception of QB. I don't want to see us blow our window waiting for the possibility that Wilson will become the next Brees when everything we have seen so far say's it may not even happen.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:17 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:You mean like the way you did Hasselbeck?

    Yeah I guess hypocritical works better when it serves your agenda.



    I only ever argued that we shouldn't re-sign Hasselbeck, so I guess it actually works better to make things up when it serves your agenda.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:35 am
  • pehawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I feel with Wilson his main problem is his stature in this regard. I noticed he has trouble seeing the middle of the field, and a few other areas depending on where he is in the pocket. This is something that can be migated, but only by one thing, and that is pocket presence. I would say 80% of Drew Brees's successs comes from his ability to manipulate the pocket. He is always aware of where the pass rushers, and where his blockers are. He uses this knowledge to not only clear defenders, but read defenses, and if you notice he is always moving around the pocket, but in subtle ways. If Wilson wants to be succesful in the NFL this is the only way he will do it.


    Umm, nope. Brees will admit he cant see 50% of what's going on. His receivers know this and run to spots, like spots within a few inches.



    exactly, everyone working together, aka team work, breeze also gets plenty of protection and thats something you cant say about Seattle's QB..

    give RW protection and give him open receivers and lets see what he can do, I suspect he is going to hit them, long and hard, he's got an arm and an eye, all he has to do is point and shoot but at the moment theres too much pocket management that needs to be addressed if not straight out abandoned for him to just step up pick a receiver and throw the ball..

    man, what game are some people watching?
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:18 pm
  • Twisted wrote:
    give RW protection and give him open receivers and lets see what he can do, I suspect he is going to hit them, long and hard, he's got an arm and an eye, all he has to do is point and shoot but at the moment theres too much pocket management that needs to be addressed if not straight out abandoned for him to just step up pick a receiver and throw the ball.


    The receivers definitely aren't making it easy on Wilson right now. Teams are just stacking the box with 8 or 9 defenders and blitzing the hell out of Wilson on passing downs. This all means our receivers HAVE to beat one on one coverage and run good, clean routes. Neither of which they're doing well.

    If we start burning teams downfield, then it'll stop the blitzes.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:15 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Twisted wrote:
    give RW protection and give him open receivers and lets see what he can do, I suspect he is going to hit them, long and hard, he's got an arm and an eye, all he has to do is point and shoot but at the moment theres too much pocket management that needs to be addressed if not straight out abandoned for him to just step up pick a receiver and throw the ball.


    The receivers definitely aren't making it easy on Wilson right now. Teams are just stacking the box with 8 or 9 defenders and blitzing the hell out of Wilson on passing downs. This all means our receivers HAVE to beat one on one coverage and run good, clean routes. Neither of which they're doing well.

    If we start burning teams downfield, then it'll stop the blitzes.

    What if they are getting open and Wilson just isn't seeing them? These same receivers were a lot more productive with Jackson under center, could they really have regressed THAT much? Of course Carroll doesn't help either... I'm not seeing many jump balls thrown which is odd since Edwards, and Rice specialize in those kind of plays. I noticed our short passing game is lacking too -- we're having Wilson take 5-7 step drops (probably because of his size) and the ball isn't getting out fast enough. I want to see more plays where our receivers are in position to make YAC, why aren't we getting the ball to Tate in space? Why aren't we utilizing the shotgun more often -- without 5 receiver empty set. Where is Miller? He is a probowl player.. before he came to the Seahawks he was considered one of the best young TEs in the game. Good players dont just "regress" like Miller has.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:20 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:These same receivers were a lot more productive with Jackson under center, could they really have regressed THAT much?


    Where is this idea coming from? I've been seeing it a lot lately, and I'm not sure where it's coming from.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:56 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:These same receivers were a lot more productive with Jackson under center, could they really have regressed THAT much?


    Where is this idea coming from? I've been seeing it a lot lately, and I'm not sure where it's coming from.

    Well, Sidney Rice through 4 games last year had 17 receptions for 264 yards with a 17.1 average and he had 1 TD. Also bear in mind that WHITEHURST was QB for one of these games.

    In 4 games this year Rice has 12 receptions for 132 yards with a 11.0 average and one TD.

    Doug Baldwin had 88 yards through 2 games (i'm using his first two) for 1 TD with an average of 12.4, this year he has 4 receptions for 23 yards with a 5.8 average and zero TDs.

    Golden Tate had 35 yards for a 5.3 average and a TD, this year he has 113 yards for 16.1 yards with 2 TDs. Tate was our 5th receiver on the depth chart at this point.

    Zach Miller had 62 yards for 8.5 while this year he has 90 yards for 10.1. I won't comment on how many times he goes out to catch a pass this year vs. last because I don't know.
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Re: Interesting - from Hawkblogger
Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:56 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:These same receivers were a lot more productive with Jackson under center, could they really have regressed THAT much?


    Where is this idea coming from? I've been seeing it a lot lately, and I'm not sure where it's coming from.

    Well, Sidney Rice through 4 games last year had 17 receptions for 264 yards with a 17.1 average and he had 1 TD. Also bear in mind that WHITEHURST was QB for one of these games.

    In 4 games this year Rice has 12 receptions for 132 yards with a 11.0 average and one TD.

    Doug Baldwin had 88 yards through 2 games (i'm using his first two) for 1 TD with an average of 12.4, this year he has 4 receptions for 23 yards with a 5.8 average and zero TDs.

    Golden Tate had 35 yards for a 5.3 average and a TD, this year he has 113 yards for 16.1 yards with 2 TDs. Tate was our 5th receiver on the depth chart at this point.

    Zach Miller had 62 yards for 8.5 while this year he has 90 yards for 10.1. I won't comment on how many times he goes out to catch a pass this year vs. last because I don't know.


    More of this? First, lets be accurate. Rice missed the first two games last year and had 11 catches in next two. So, after 4 games, he had, not 17, but 11 receptions.
    In those 4 games, Tarvaris had 136 attempts to Wilson's 100, and was playing from behind in 3 of those 4 games. Second, TJ and Rice WERE TEAMMATES in Minnesota, I hope they had some continuity together.
    Other pertinent stats: TJ had more turnovers after 4 games, almost twice as many sacks, and we were all wondering if we were going to be picking Luck first in the draft.

    Results based analysis means nothing unless you consider the process as well.
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