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Is this Pete's Best Coaching Performance?

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  • 1. Hardest strength of schedule in the NFL
    2. Most injuries sustained in league
    3. 11-5 record
    4. Divisional Round
    5. 7-1 road record

    I know we like to praise coaches when they win SB's, and rightly so. But IMO what sets the great coaches apart from just good coaches is what they do when adversity strikes, and no one can deny that we've had more than our fair share of adversity this year with injuries and how hard our schedules been.

    Yet here we are, elite eight and still standing..........and after year two of a 80% roster turnover.

    Is this Pete's best coaching job since he was hired?
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:1. Hardest strength of schedule in the NFL
    2. Most injuries sustained in league
    3. 11-5 record
    4. Divisional Round
    5. 7-1 road record

    I know we like to praise coaches when they win SB's, and rightly so. But IMO what sets the great coaches apart from just good coaches is what they do when adversity strikes, and no one can deny that we've had more than our fair share of adversity this year with injuries and how hard our schedules been.

    Yet here we are, elite eight and still standing..........and after year two of a 80% roster turnover.

    Is this Pete's best coaching job since he was hired?


    The last game, yes. At last, Pete unleashed Russ to run. He wasn't overly concerned with putting Lynch in. His time management was good.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • It is a valid question that's for sure. You really could argue that this is even more impressive than the 2 Super Bowl years. Look what he has had to work with vs. back then. Not to mention, winning what 11 one score games?
    And his ability to get the most out of players is incredible. Especially backups. Sure, his time management has been painful. But as far as getting the most out of less...…..this is quite possibly his best coaching job yet.
    You don't go 8-1 on the road by accident, and I don't care WHO they played.
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:1. Hardest strength of schedule in the NFL
    2. Most injuries sustained in league
    3. 11-5 record
    4. Divisional Round
    5. 7-1 road record

    I know we like to praise coaches when they win SB's, and rightly so. But IMO what sets the great coaches apart from just good coaches is what they do when adversity strikes, and no one can deny that we've had more than our fair share of adversity this year with injuries and how hard our schedules been.

    Yet here we are, elite eight and still standing..........and after year two of a 80% roster turnover.

    Is this Pete's best coaching job since he was hired?


    The last game, yes. At last, Pete unleashed Russ to run. He wasn't overly concerned with putting Lynch in. His time management was good.


    But not the first 16 games?

    I don't think Pete unleashed Russell. I just think Russell did what Russell does, an amazing job of escaping pressure and either finding an open receiver, or running for positive yards. Just so happens there were 3-4 times during the Eagle's game that there was a LOT of real estate for Russell to run.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • We have a thread on this forum entitled "Pete Carroll needs to go" and you're asking if this is his best ever Seahawks coaching job. I'm so confused.



    (It may well be Sgt)
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:We have a thread on this forum entitled "Pete Carroll needs to go" and you're asking if this is his best ever Seahawks coaching job. I'm so confused.



    (It may well be Sgt)


    LOL. I can only post objective opinions based on being a fan since 1976..........unfortunately I can't control insane knee jerk fans that have obviously only been fans since like 2010 starting ridiculous threads about firing the most successful coach this team's ever had, that's STILL successful.

    How many other owners would pull a hamstring running to Pete Carroll if we fired him? 28? 29?

    Perspective. What it be.
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  • Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.
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  • Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    Pete's never been good at all the criticisms you mention here, so what year would you say he coached and managed the roster better?
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  • Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    I agree with Seymour 1000%. Russ has played out of his mind this season except for the very end and I do believe most of our success is due to him. Pete has shown his usual gaffes this year as mentioned above.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    Pete's never been good at all the criticisms you mention here, so what year would you say he coached and managed the roster better?


    What year is better? 2015 when he finally turned Russ lose and went 10-6 after what would have crippled most teams with the SB 49 ending. He also trashed Harvin which took balls but needed to happen.

    Also, the last 2 years ONLY have we started to lose more home games and that is a team preparation issue.

    Yes Pete has always had clock management issues....BUT they are getting worse!!
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  • Meh, I think it's a great question really. To me, part of how well a coach does is what he has to actually work with. This team has been held together with Duct tape. Just sayin
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    Pete's never been good at all the criticisms you mention here, so what year would you say he coached and managed the roster better?


    What year is better? 2015 when he finally turned Russ lose and went 10-6 after what would have crippled most teams with the SB 49 ending. He also trashed Harvin which took balls but needed to happen.

    Yes Pete has always had clock management issues....BUT they are getting worse!!


    I certainly can't argue with the clock management or in-game decisionmaking gaffs, drives me insane.

    And I can't argue with 2015, another great coaching accomplishment..........but IMO that team still had far more talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and were in a division with only one other good team. Both the Rams and Niners stunk that year.

    Let's have this weekend as the tie breaker Seymour. If we win, it's this year........if we lose, I'll concede 2015.
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  • I find it interesting that many of our fans can't draw a distinction between being a good coach and having faults.

    Pete makes mistakes, but: Any team in the divisional round of the playoffs, with a season as injury riddled as this one, that was already thin to begin with, has a coach doing a fantastic job. Period. End of story.
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  • yes, for sure. I vastly over estimated our defensive talent. I think our DC isn't very good either. Every single expert picked us to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league.
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  • Hawkpower wrote:I find it interesting that many of our fans can't draw a distinction between being a good coach and having faults.

    Pete makes mistakes, but: Any team in the divisional round of the playoffs, with a season as injury riddled as this one, that was already thin to begin with, has a coach doing a fantastic job. Period. End of story.


    I find it interesting you interpret that as saying he is NOT a good coach?

    Not what I said. I said Russ is the #1 reason for our 2019 record and I think 2015 was better. Yes Pete is a very good coach, no it's not his best year IMO.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    Pete's never been good at all the criticisms you mention here, so what year would you say he coached and managed the roster better?


    What year is better? 2015 when he finally turned Russ lose and went 10-6 after what would have crippled most teams with the SB 49 ending. He also trashed Harvin which took balls but needed to happen.

    Yes Pete has always had clock management issues....BUT they are getting worse!!


    I certainly can't argue with the clock management or in-game decisionmaking gaffs, drives me insane.

    And I can't argue with 2015, another great coaching accomplishment..........but IMO that team still had far more talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and were in a division with only one other good team. Both the Rams and Niners stunk that year.

    Let's have this weekend as the tie breaker Seymour. If we win, it's this year........if we lose, I'll concede 2015.


    Fair enough. That would be Pete's first win in Lambeau so I would give it to him if he pulls off a W against a 13W mud Packers team. :2thumbs:
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  • Lately, or this year?

    You know we lost to the Cardinals at home in a must win game, right?

    Of course this is not his best year. And in hindsight, no way our schedule was actually nearly as tough as ranked. We played 5 backup QBs.

    Ultimately, to answer this question you have to decide how much credit you want to give Wilson for these wins vs Carroll. There are a # of games that look like Wilson balled out while outside of the playbook.

    However, if we win this next playoff game, then yes you have to concede that outside of the SB years it potentially could be one of Carroll's better performances. For now, we do have an 11 win season but we had a near cakewalk in 1/3 of our games. We have a wildcard win, but we've been a wildcard team for some time. Injuries have hit hard this year, so he did a good job juggling - but a # of our wins have come against teams with key injuries themselves.

    For now, it feels like the answer to this question is: 'We will see after the Green Bay game".
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  • Um, they are 12-5 and playing in the 2nd round of the playoffs. But I get it, the Hawks win but...…...pretty much all you hear this season. Downplay it all you want. They are 12-5, and while having one of the most injured teams in the entire league.
    Why not break down other teams with so called "easy schedules" and or going against backup QB's etc.
    You play who is in front of you, and the Hawks are one of 8 teams remaining in the league. They are 8-1 ON THE ROAD FFS.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I mean .... the delay of game still ticks me off --- but overall he's done a remarkable job.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Um, they are 12-5 and playing in the 2nd round of the playoffs. But I get it, the Hawks win but...…...pretty much all you hear this season. Downplay it all you want. They are 12-5, and while having one of the most injured teams in the entire league.
    Why not break down other teams with so called "easy schedules" and or going against backup QB's etc.
    You play who is in front of you, and the Hawks are one of 8 teams remaining in the league. They are 8-1 ON THE ROAD FFS.


    And by the time we kickoff we will be "even better" as we will be 1 of just 5 teams left!

    :lol: :irishdrinkers:
    Seymour
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  • This is positively his best year. People comparing 2013, 2014, or 2015 need to look at the roster. Those teams had the #1 Scoring defense 4 years in a row because of John Schneider and Pete Carroll's talent evaluation and promotion skills.

    But, you can't keep those teams together forever, and once Russell got paid, we had to let a lot of those players go, not to mention a plethora of injuries.

    Lately he's been at a disadvantage with all of the injuries we got hit with (Kam, Sherman, ET, Avril, ADB, etc, etc,) and the fact that there were some players who were agitating within for their own personal reasons. We have a HUGE turnover and yet Pete still produces 1000 yard rushers, and a decent defense with who in the secondary? Who on the DLine?

    Yet people are laser focused on a few time management glitches, and timeout issues that have always been Pete's weaknesses. If he's not perfect, they're not happy and will "pooh pooh" any success he has.

    This has been a PHENOMENAL year by Pete, and John. We should feel very fortunate to be on this decade long ride. But just like Patriot fans, some are ready to bail as soon as there's the first sign of trouble. How many times over the past 10 - 15 years have we seen headlines in Boston when NE struggles to start "Is the Dynasty Dead?" :thcoffee:

    So keep picking at those tiny little scabs, while this team continues to win 1 score games on the road, with the toughest Strength of Schedule, in the East Coast Time Zone.

    Me, I'll be basking in the glow of having Pete Carroll as my Head Coach, and John Schneider as my General Manager.

    Oh, and Russell always turns up the running in the playoffs. If you haven't noticed this, you haven't been paying attention. Pete has not been telling Russell "don't run!" "Okay, now you can run!" Wilson is smart enough to figure the risk equation out on his own.

    Carson Wentz is not. That's why he keeps getting injured.

    Cam Newton was not, that's why he has an injury shortened career.

    Aaron Rodgers has made some poor decisions, and now he can't complete a pass beyond 10 yards.
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  • Good point Seymour, I love how we get to finish the weekend. Plus we will already know who and where we play if we win this game.
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  • Hawkstorian wrote:I mean .... the delay of game still ticks me off --- but overall he's done a remarkable job.


    Which one? ;)
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  • 12-5, yet another season with a playoff win, 2 wins from the Super Bowl...…...again.
    Do you Pete, you might drive us nuts, but you're still one hell of a coach.
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  • How many times have we heard it?

    Pete has to go

    Pete is too old

    The game has past Pete up.

    Etc etc etc.



    It’s a great time to be a Seahawk fan.

    # neverforget The lean years.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Lately, or this year?

    You know we lost to the Cardinals at home in a must win game, right?


    In the words of Inigo Montoya, I do not think this word means what you think it means. A "must win" game means just that, if you don't win you're out of the playoffs.........and we still lost the Niners, so even if we beat the Cardinals all it would have meant is we had a better chance of getting the #1 seed IF we beat the Niners, which we didn't.

    Of course this is not his best year. And in hindsight, no way our schedule was actually nearly as tough as ranked. We played 5 backup QBs.".


    The strength of schedule metrics take into account all of this, so yes we still played the toughest schedule.

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/rankin ... h-by-other
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  • Pete gets credit for building and developing those great defenses.

    There were a # of 2nd day picks or FAs that became studs under him.

    I don't think you can say he has done a better job since his SB years. Because that dominance was the product of Pete's vision and work then. THOSE were examples of his best coaching performances.

    An 11 win season, with an easy path paved by the injuries to opposing key players is not comparable. However, any additional win in the playoffs this year automatically vaults him forward because since the SB loss he could never overcome that hurdle.

    Doing that would make this year one of his greatest accomplishments as a Seahawk coach.
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  • 12 WIN SEASON, they have 12 wins right now. MANY of these teams with good records had an "easy path" with their schedule. Why are you not downplaying their records?

    Did Pete pee in your cereal or something? :lol:
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  • Some of us count regular season wins and post season wins separately.

    That said, in terms of most enjoyable, greatest Seahawk seasons? This one is up there.

    Some of the most amazing games I have seen watching as a Seahawk fan ever. This was a great season to watch as a fan.

    But that doesn't make it the equal of some of Pete's other great seasons. Pete has done a far better job coaching before, he got us to 2 SBs. And that was before Wilson really spread his wings.
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  • That's cool, all in how you look at it. But the talent on the Super Bowl teams vs. now? It's not even close.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:That's cool, all in how you look at it. But the talent on the Super Bowl teams vs. now? It's not even close.


    And that’s a fair statement.

    What about a coach that wins with less talent?


    I get frustrated too but I can’t really complain about Pete, even when I want to.
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  • I'm grateful for Pete and John TOGETHER. Without one or the other this wouldn't be what it is.

    My biggest problem with him is his game time MGT. He has sucked at it for years and there is no improvement.

    I Knew we would win last Sunday when he actually won a challenge but his management of timeouts leaves a lot on the table.
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  • pmedic920 wrote:
    What about a coach that wins with less talent?.


    This is my point. Along with the difficult schedule and #1 in injuries, hard to argue this wasn't Pete's best coaching year.

    And we haven't even scratched the surface of what he did to re-energize the culture of the locker room and roster. KJ just talked about it today, how this is the most positive and enjoyable locker room and season he's had since he's been here.
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  • Before the season, I think many of would have gladly signed up for an 11-5 team that wins a road playoff game (only for 4th in team history) and is playing GB for a chance at the NFC Championship.
    Win or lose this weekend, this has been a really fun season. I won't be surprised with a loss, but I certainly think we have a real shot in this game. Win or lose, I'm pretty happy with this season.
    That being said, the Super Bowl is the goal always, but I certainly am not gonna' consider this a crap season if they don't make it all the way. And NO, that doesn't make me less of a fan and/or "satisfied with losing"

    Sad that has to actually be stated before the bashing begins :lol:
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  • Winning last week auto bypasses any "crap season" talk.

    "I'm grateful for Pete and John TOGETHER. Without one or the other this wouldn't be what it is."
    Bingo Largent. As long as that team is intact we'll be in the game.
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  • Clock management is on the players as much as it is on the coaching staff. People get on Pete about delay of game penalties, but those fall squarely on Russ and the rest of the offense. It’s his job to watch the play clock as QB.
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  • Barry Switzer could have won the Super Bowl with the 2013 team. That was probably Pete's worst coachign job since that team should have gone undefeated.

    Coaching the 2010 team to a division championship and playoff win was probably his best coaching performance. Next best was getting a Super Bowl loser back to the playoffs in 2015. Look at how the Panthers, Falcons and Rams crashed and burned after losing the SB.

    This season is probably his 3rd best given how tough the schedule was and how injured we were at the end.
    We are down a LT1, LG1, C1, C2, TE1, TE2, RB1, RB2, RB3, WR3 on offense. We are down DT2, DE2, SAM1 on defense. And we never had a legitimate CB3 all year. We just got back injured FS1 and DE1. It's absurd the number of crucial injuries.
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  • sc85sis wrote:Clock management is on the players as much as it is on the coaching staff. People get on Pete about delay of game penalties, but those fall squarely on Russ and the rest of the offense. It’s his job to watch the play clock as QB.

    John63 incoming in 5-4-3...........
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  • I think he is doing a real good job. But he always does a good job. He is an excellent coach. Carroll is somewhat under appreciated on here I have seen. Like the fire Pete Carroll threads and such. LOL. Some of your fans don't know what you have. You have a really excellent coach. He has done well with your injuries and still pulled together a pretty good season so far. There is nothing wrong with what you achieved. Lots of teams would love to be 11 - 5, in the playoffs, with 1 playoff win so far and still alive. There are more teams sitting at home watching than teams in that situation.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Is clock management, decision making, and getting the team prepared for HOME games a function of coaching?

    No, this is not Pete's best, but possibly Wilson's best considering what he has to work with in pass protection and now running backs. Wilson doesn't care, he just becomes the lead RB if needed.


    Pete's never been good at all the criticisms you mention here, so what year would you say he coached and managed the roster better?


    What year is better? 2015 when he finally turned Russ lose and went 10-6 after what would have crippled most teams with the SB 49 ending. He also trashed Harvin which took balls but needed to happen.

    Also, the last 2 years ONLY have we started to lose more home games and that is a team preparation issue.

    Yes Pete has always had clock management issues....BUT they are getting worse!!

    2015 was a disaster from a coaching standpoint for Carroll. Seattle only had 10 wins yet they had a top 10 offense in yards (8), even higher in scoring as well as the number one defense in DVOA, number one defense in scoring, number 2 in total yardage. In the playoffs our good old friend, Blair Walsh gifted the Seahawks a win in a game they were about to lose. We under achieved quite a bit that year, and while we released Wilson at times we reverted to our old style of play. On top of that we had one of the best rushing offenses to pair with that defense and one of the most efficient passing games. 2015 was not a coaching success, we under achieved by a large margin that year.

    This year I don't think it was any magical feat that Carroll pulled. Our record is a function of Wilson playing out of his mind. Russell Wilson is also tied for the most 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives at five. Our Quarterback is carrying this years squad. When we started losing we went back to our old fuddy duddy 70s style offense with long developing deep routes which plays right into where our offense is weak -- the offensive line. We're not doing Wilson any favors here.
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  • Seymour wrote:I said Russ is the #1 reason for our 2019 record and I think 2015 was better.


    I have never understood this "QB has bailed out the head coach" logic on ANY team. No head coach gets the look or mismatch he wants on every offensive play. None of them. If you want to go anywhere as an NFL quarterback, you will have to be able to improvise on at least some plays.

    Wilson has the reputation of a greater improviser because his improvisations are more dramatic (i.e. running around like a chicken with his head cut off).

    It's an illusion. Every QB is doing this - just without running - and it's just that most fans wouldn't recognize an improvisation from the pocket if it bit them on the ass. You know those epic 3rd down plays where the QB stands for five seconds and eventually slings it to someone? That was an improvisation. Anything after three seconds was probably improvisation. Every QB has done it; they just do it from the pocket more often and make it look intentional. I guarantee that a lot of the NFL's most dramatic plays were total deviations from what the OC called.

    Now throw in announcers' annoying habit of going "Russ is running for his life" when he leaves the pocket without being pressured, and yeah, you get the illusion that Wilson is bailing Pete and Schotty out. The truth is, he probably isn't bailing his coach out THAT much more than most coaches do. I admit Pete's strength has never been clock management. But there are a lot of elements contributing to the impression fans have (that Pete couldn't gameplan his way out of a paper bag while Russ is defeating his incompetence every other play) that don't actually say that at all. If Pete were as klutzy as most people believe, we just wouldn't be on our 7th divisional-round appearance.

    Also, 2015 wasn't better. It was a win less than 2019.
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  • Great subject. I think he did an amazing job this year. People dont appreciate the winning culture he built. They focus on the faults.
    Wilson was better than any QB we faced, but I rarely saw a roster of an opposing team and thought we were so much better. He usually has his team up up for teams that I do think have more talent. Every great coach and team have upsets its aggravating but it happens.
    Last edited by justafan on Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    justafan
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  • Forget all that ^^^^^^^^ and remember that we were coming off the most devastating SB loss in history!

    Look at other SB losers for what to expect from that type of a loss and that is where I say we beat all odds.
    And also finally turning Russ lose was actually a pleasure to watch a game for the better part of the year. :2thumbs:

    Your points on the ending I agree with, but I'm looking at the bigger picture for that entire season personally.
    Seymour
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  • sc85sis wrote:Clock management is on the players as much as it is on the coaching staff. People get on Pete about delay of game penalties, but those fall squarely on Russ and the rest of the offense. It’s his job to watch the play clock as QB.


    I agree the players are accountable -- but it's the coaches job to hold them accountable and as a fan I hold the coach responsible. Errors like this have nothing to do with talent it's all situational awareness which is why it's so frustrating. I'm literally sitting in my seat in section 335 screaming THE %$^#$ CLOCK IS RUNNING!!
    Hawkstorian
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I said Russ is the #1 reason for our 2019 record and I think 2015 was better.


    I have never understood this "QB has bailed out the head coach" logic on ANY team. No head coach gets the look or mismatch he wants on every offensive play. None of them. If you want to go anywhere as an NFL quarterback, you will have to be able to improvise on at least some plays.

    Wilson has the reputation of a greater improviser because his improvisations are more dramatic (i.e. running around like a chicken with his head cut off).

    It's an illusion. Every QB is doing this - just without running - and it's just that most fans wouldn't recognize an improvisation from the pocket if it bit them on the ass. You know those epic 3rd down plays where the QB stands for five seconds and eventually slings it to someone? That was an improvisation. Anything after three seconds was probably improvisation. Every QB has done it; they just do it from the pocket more often and make it look intentional. I guarantee that a lot of the NFL's most dramatic plays were total deviations from what the OC called.

    Now throw in announcers' annoying habit of going "Russ is running for his life" when he leaves the pocket without being pressured, and yeah, you get the illusion that Wilson is bailing Pete and Schotty out. The truth is, he probably isn't bailing his coach out THAT much more than most coaches do. I admit Pete's strength has never been clock management. But there are a lot of elements contributing to the impression fans have (that Pete couldn't gameplan his way out of a paper bag while Russ is defeating his incompetence every other play) that don't actually say that at all. If Pete were as klutzy as most people believe, we just wouldn't be on our 7th divisional-round appearance.

    Also, 2015 wasn't better. It was a win less than 2019.


    No illusion.

    Name another QB that can win under that kinda of pass rush year after year! :177692:

    You should watch and compare our pass rush the oline puts on our QB compared to other top QB's sometime. Wilson pays the price and bails out Pete and his inability to put competent pass protection together year after year. :pukeface:
    Seymour
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  • Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I said Russ is the #1 reason for our 2019 record and I think 2015 was better.


    I have never understood this "QB has bailed out the head coach" logic on ANY team. No head coach gets the look or mismatch he wants on every offensive play. None of them. If you want to go anywhere as an NFL quarterback, you will have to be able to improvise on at least some plays.

    Wilson has the reputation of a greater improviser because his improvisations are more dramatic (i.e. running around like a chicken with his head cut off).

    It's an illusion. Every QB is doing this - just without running - and it's just that most fans wouldn't recognize an improvisation from the pocket if it bit them on the ass. You know those epic 3rd down plays where the QB stands for five seconds and eventually slings it to someone? That was an improvisation. Anything after three seconds was probably improvisation. Every QB has done it; they just do it from the pocket more often and make it look intentional. I guarantee that a lot of the NFL's most dramatic plays were total deviations from what the OC called.

    Now throw in announcers' annoying habit of going "Russ is running for his life" when he leaves the pocket without being pressured, and yeah, you get the illusion that Wilson is bailing Pete and Schotty out. The truth is, he probably isn't bailing his coach out THAT much more than most coaches do. I admit Pete's strength has never been clock management. But there are a lot of elements contributing to the impression fans have (that Pete couldn't gameplan his way out of a paper bag while Russ is defeating his incompetence every other play) that don't actually say that at all. If Pete were as klutzy as most people believe, we just wouldn't be on our 7th divisional-round appearance.

    Also, 2015 wasn't better. It was a win less than 2019.


    No illusion.

    Name another QB that can win under that kinda of pass rush year after year! :177692:

    You should watch and compare our pass rush the oline puts on our QB compared to other top QB's sometime. Wilson pays the price and bails out Pete and his inability to put competent pass protection together year after year. :pukeface:

    Offensive line isn't even the biggest problem, it's the scheme. If you're running deep crossing routes it takes time for the play to develop. Russell Wilson has consistently held onto the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. There have been some years where we changed that up, see 2015 and the beginning of this season and all of the sudden Russell Wilson has the ball for less time, and his numbers go up. Short routes are vital to most NFL offenses, yet there are times where we decide to abandon them all together. Those short timing routes can also be used to set up the run. If you're able to spread the defense out, it is harder for them to stack the box. When teams cheat up that is when you hit them with a deep bomb. We keep going away from what works with our offense, I don't think playing rope-a-dope and relying on improvisation to slam a long pass is a sound offensive philosophy.

    Excuse my language but we're skipping the foreplay and going in dry. That is not a smart offensive philosophy.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:I said Russ is the #1 reason for our 2019 record and I think 2015 was better.


    I have never understood this "QB has bailed out the head coach" logic on ANY team. No head coach gets the look or mismatch he wants on every offensive play. None of them. If you want to go anywhere as an NFL quarterback, you will have to be able to improvise on at least some plays.

    Wilson has the reputation of a greater improviser because his improvisations are more dramatic (i.e. running around like a chicken with his head cut off).

    It's an illusion. Every QB is doing this - just without running - and it's just that most fans wouldn't recognize an improvisation from the pocket if it bit them on the ass. You know those epic 3rd down plays where the QB stands for five seconds and eventually slings it to someone? That was an improvisation. Anything after three seconds was probably improvisation. Every QB has done it; they just do it from the pocket more often and make it look intentional. I guarantee that a lot of the NFL's most dramatic plays were total deviations from what the OC called.

    Now throw in announcers' annoying habit of going "Russ is running for his life" when he leaves the pocket without being pressured, and yeah, you get the illusion that Wilson is bailing Pete and Schotty out. The truth is, he probably isn't bailing his coach out THAT much more than most coaches do. I admit Pete's strength has never been clock management. But there are a lot of elements contributing to the impression fans have (that Pete couldn't gameplan his way out of a paper bag while Russ is defeating his incompetence every other play) that don't actually say that at all. If Pete were as klutzy as most people believe, we just wouldn't be on our 7th divisional-round appearance.

    Also, 2015 wasn't better. It was a win less than 2019.


    No illusion.

    Name another QB that can win under that kinda of pass rush year after year! :177692:

    You should watch and compare our pass rush the oline puts on our QB compared to other top QB's sometime. Wilson pays the price and bails out Pete and his inability to put competent pass protection together year after year. :pukeface:

    Offensive line isn't even the biggest problem, it's the scheme. If you're running deep crossing routes it takes time for the play to develop. Russell Wilson has consistently held onto the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. There have been some years where we changed that up, see 2015 and the beginning of this season and all of the sudden Russell Wilson has the ball for less time, and his numbers go up. Short routes are vital to most NFL offenses, yet there are times where we decide to abandon them all together. Those short timing routes can also be used to set up the run. If you're able to spread the defense out, it is harder for them to stack the box. When teams cheat up that is when you hit them with a deep bomb. We keep going away from what works with our offense, I don't think playing rope-a-dope and relying on improvisation to slam a long pass is a sound offensive philosophy.

    Excuse my language but we're skipping the foreplay and going in dry. That is not a smart offensive philosophy.


    These are questions of scheme, not incompetence. If Wilson improvising is an intentional quality that Pete picked out on purpose, then Wilson isn't bailing him out - he's bailed himself out, with a great QB pick.

    And no, "but he didn't pick him until the third round" or "John deserves all the credit for Wilson" will not be entertained here. Not unless you want to look like you're grinding an axe. The draft card doesn't get submitted without Pete's ok, and Pete had every prerogative to act on reservations about Wilson's unorthodox profile.

    As far as incompetent offensive linemen, Pete fired the coach responsible.
    MontanaHawk05
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  • I am not here to piss in anyone's cheerios, but I am going to have to inject some reality into this thread.

    2010 was his best coaching performance. When he brought real innovations to the league, and had a team playing way over it's head to upset the defending Superbowl Champion Saints in the playoffs.

    His innovations were playing big corners, when everyone was drafting 5-11'' corners with sprinter's speed. Pete was going after big corners who weren't as fast, but where physical, and could contest big WR's. Also in the secondary he went big at SS, when the league was going with smaller safeties that could cover. Pete drafted a guy that looked like Lawrence Taylor to play SS. Teams around the league also laughed at the Seahawks for extending Kam, and making him the 2nd highest paid SS in the league back in 2013. They weren't laughing by 2015. At that point every team was looking for a Kam. Eventually the league caught up to what the Seahawks were doing and implemented it into their bag of tricks.


    Wilson is carrying dead bodies over the finish line right now.

    They are, and have been bad on defense, bad on special teams, bad on the O-Line, getting out-schemed most games, falling behind in analytics. Even the dinosaur, Mike McCarthy, is hiring a 14 man analytics team to bring with him to Dallas.

    2 missed 40 yard FGs away from being 1-5 in the Division. Where Pete was thoroughly out coached in divisional games. Bumbled it on the 1 yard line once again, costing the franchise a division title.

    I am thankful for some of the lucky bounces they have had this season to give them an inflated record, and Wilson showing once again he can put the franchise on his back, but Pete needs to be better. Build a defense, get his QB an O-Line, understand what to do in short yardage situations in enemy territory, figure out how to play Sean McVay's offense, etc, etc. or they are going to spoil their best chance at winning a Super Bowl with a Franchise QB in his prime in the upcoming years.

    So as they ran their little RB, right behind little Joey Hunt, going against Fletcher Cox, for loss after loss. Thus forcing Wilson to consistently make magic happen, converting 2nd and longs, 3rd and longs, all game long, which are crazy hard to convert btw, on scramble plays none the less, what ran through y'alls head was, that's great coaching? ...Interesting.

    I will give him credit though, as he learned from last year's playoff debacle, losing to Jason Garrett, and let Russ cook.

    Wilson is carrying dead bodies over the finish line, and am wondering if he could actually carry them to the NFC championship. That is some John Elway ish right there, back when he had no help.

    2010 was Pete's best coaching performance and it really isn't close. He brought innovations to the game that forced other teams to copy. And took Tim Ruskell players to the playoffs, and upset the double digit favored Saints.
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  • pmedic920 wrote:# neverforget The lean years.

    THIS.

    Remember when Kelly Stouffer was going to be the savior, our franchise QB?
    Then it was 1st round pick Dan McGwire who was going to be the QB to save us.
    And then it was Stan Gelbaugh actually playing.

    We had the Great Chuck Knox for a few good years. Then he was gone, but it was OK, because before long, we got a Super-Bowl winning coach, Tom Flores, running the team now, for sure he can lead the Seahawks to the Promised Land.
    Nope. It was beat-down after beat-down after humiliating loss in the Tom Flores years, then Ken Behring packed up the Seahawks to move the team to California. Paul Allen saved the team from that.

    The Holmgren years were pretty good overall, but really tailed off near the end, I think Holmgren's last year was 4-12. While I won't say the team quit on Holgrem that last 4-12 season, something was very dysfunctional and it was sure hard to watch. Maybe it was all the "high-character" but "low-talent" players Ruskell saddled Holmgren with. I'd blamed Holmgren for the SBXL loss, for having zero depth at strong safety, and putting man-off-the-street Etric Pruitt out there after Marquand Manuel got injured in the second quarter. Now I realize it was as much or more on Tim Ruskell. IIRC, the Seahawks, have TWO coaches that have a road playoff win to their credit, Knox and Carroll. (not Holmgren)

    Pete Carroll is easily the best coach the Seahawks have ever had. Let's appreciate him while we still have him!

    And yes, this season has been one of Carroll's best coaching performances. And one of Scheider's top GM performances. Clowney, Diggs trades, drafting DK. Sometimes it's hard to evaluate a single year, because it's the overall longer-range plan that resulted in the improvement of the team, involving tasks like jettisoning high-priced or divisive, underperforming players. Pete and John re-shaped the roster the last couple seasons, and it looks like it will get even better from here.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:12-5, yet another season with a playoff win, 2 wins from the Super Bowl...…...again.
    Do you Pete, you might drive us nuts, but you're still one hell of a coach.

    Totally on the money post..
    PC is unlike any HC you'll ever see..It's insane but it works a lot.
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