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Tre Flowers

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Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:58 am
  • Looking for thoughts on Tre Flowers - I know we are all sick of seeing the big plays that are given up via DPI - but sometimes he is in the right place - would you like to see him in our future plans as CB2? Or move on?
    hawksfan35
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:04 am
  • He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately
    hawkfan68
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:07 am
  • He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

    I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 am
  • I do agree with that Sports Hernia - he always seems to be there if he just turns his head its great coverage, typically he is never totally out of position grabbing at the receiver - just always running through them!
    hawksfan35
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:10 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately


    Good point. Maybe he turns it around in year 3 like Griffin did.
    HawkRiderFan
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:12 am
  • Need a huge play but don't have an NFL caliber WR??

    Throw deep toward Flowers and you have a 50-50 at a desperate grab DPI penalty. :pukeface:
    Seymour
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:16 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

    I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”


    Which is wrong.

    If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

    DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

    Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

    Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.
    Mad Dog
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:17 am
  • I still have confidence in Tre and believe his upside is better than Griffen's.
    vigilantgrrl
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:21 am
  • He had a bad game, it happens. They won the game and he'll learn from it.
    Go Hawks, Go Tre!
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:23 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

    I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend if you cannot see the ball”


    If he figures out how to play this way he will be one of the best CB's in the league. He's fast, tall, with long arms. The long DPI yesterday could have easily been an interception. Just like if DK Metcalf improves his hands (yesterday was a break out game for him) he will be a monster. Have a good feeling about both.
    StoneCold
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:35 am
  • II think you gotta be open to looking for his replacement. I'm not a Flowers hater but I don't know that the ceiling is much higher on him. I think what you see is what you're going to get. I don't see this season as a 2nd year slump. Shaqhad a breakout rookie season, came back 2nd year thinking it's gonna be better and wasn't up to snuff physically and got worked. He got into shape and rededicated himself to being a pro and the results came. Flowers isn't doing anything differently he's just got limitations. He's never going to be fast so guys get past him and he starts chasing and loses the ball. He's also constantly playing off in short situations for the same reason, he's afraid they get past him so he keeps them in front but those short yards are almost always there. He isn't the most pressing replacement but I don't think he's got it locked down either.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:11 am
  • I may be wrong, but I believe Flowers was ranked something like 110/121 best CB and Griffin was ranked 6/121. It seems like the two flip flopped from last year, which is pretty bizarre. I really hope Flowers can be the answer at CB2, but it might be time to draft or bring in another CB.
    ttown0026
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:17 am
  • I agree that we might do well to find not just 1, but 2 new corner prospects. Having said that I really like the potential I see in Flowers. He certainly has some technique to learn, but he could be great when he does that. Unless I am mistaken corner is a new position for him since leaving college?
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:24 am
  • He's a good young player, and improving.

    He's clearly part of the team's plans going forward.

    We all should remember this player was a SS in college and has made a position change to CB. He'll have good games and bad games but the trend with him is positive.

    In case anyone wonders it is hard to make a position change and he's not doing badly for his second year.
    jammerhawk
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:30 am
  • I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:43 am
  • Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:53 am
  • Flowers will always be a fringe player in the sense of, there is just enough glimmer of talent there to keep the coaches wanting to try him out, but it's wrapped up in mistakes and bungled opportunities.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:38 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:57 pm
  • I think people forget that Pete likes his CB's to tackle almost as much as he likes them to cover wide receivers. Flowers is a solid tackler and has made some big run stops this year. That counts.

    Filling your secondary with stars isn't the best way to build your team. It's all about a stud DL. We don't need to to worry about CB2 as much as we need to worry about DE1 and DE2 and DT3.

    And to me, Flowers reminds me a lot of Brandon Browner. Physical corner that gets too many penalties. It's just Browner played when you could still grab WR's and get away with it.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:12 pm
  • HawkRiderFan wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately


    Good point. Maybe he turns it around in year 3 like Griffin did.
    This. I don’t think you move on from him until after his 3rd season if there is no improvement or a regression. We all go spoiled with Sherman here and our current DB’s are still growing.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:15 pm
  • I trust the process.

    And, Tre is only going to benefit from continued practice against a rapidly improving wide receiver corp.

    But, it's a time honored cliche to look at every year as a good year to draft a defensive back.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:17 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:15 pm
  • If the experiment at CB2 fails, could he be answer at safety?


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    toffee
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:29 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.



    I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

    How about shead?


    Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:40 pm
  • Well he's in for a tough matchup against Rogers he will be throwing his way often I would think. Initially I thought Flowers was going to turn into a good CB . I'm not sure that's the case anymore. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over . They need to have a viable alternative ready he keeps making these mistakes next season.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:41 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.


    I'd be more concerned if Flowers was getting beat deep. I see 3 areas he can improve. 1. He plays too far off underneath routes and allows them to get 7 or 8 yards. 2. When he plays tight he too often gets called for PI. 3. On deep routes he needs to get his head around and play the ball. 1 and 3 are a matter of trusting yourself, and 2 is about technique. He makes enough plays that I see the possibility he gets it in year 3. That said coaches who see him in practice everyday would truly know better than us couch mavens.
    Last edited by StoneCold on Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:41 pm

Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:45 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.



    I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

    How about shead?


    Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.


    Shead is a very good comp for Flowers, another CB that had a couple years to develop, and never did enough for us to seriously consider him the long term answer opposite our #1 CB. Thus his departure.

    Griffin never sucked. Bad example.

    CB's in Pete's defense need to be playmakers, difference makers.........Flowers is neither of those, and IMO never will be. I'm perfectly fine with him being on the roster through the rest of his rookie contract as he's a good backup and he's cheap.

    But as a starter? Nope.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:13 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawknballs wrote:I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

    My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.


    Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

    Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

    He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

    We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.


    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.


    Griffin had a huge second-year slump than had us fairly questioning his future here.

    I'd also dispute that Tre doesn't make plays. He's not Sherman, but three picks on the year and a couple of sacks are enough to keep him in the mix for me after converting to a new position in the pros.

    Believe me, I went looking for statistical evidence that Tre was bad (it was supposed to be #4 on my takeaways list) and found this instead:



    And yeah I'm well aware that this writer is your typical Fieldgulls contrarian who's usually driven more by a need to show up those dirty football peasants on the ESPN boards than anything else, but sometimes numbers speak for themselves adequately.

    He had a terrible game last week and needs to get better, but he's nowhere Hill/Tedric/King bad. I'm sure Pete will hand him a 5th-round competitor next draft. If we're talking about using high collateral to replace him, though, there are barer cupboards on this roster.
    MontanaHawk05
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:00 pm
  • I think Trufant has been coaching him.
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:01 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

    I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”


    Which is wrong.

    If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

    DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

    Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

    Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.

    We will have to agree to disagree. If you watch him, even if he’s beat he usually recovers in time to get his head turned around.
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:00 pm
  • He's hard to gauge. At times, he looks like a seasoned vet (especially against the run)

    Deep ball thrown to his side and while the ball is in the air I'm thinking DPI or catch.

    I disagree that his upside may be greater than that of Shaq. I feel like both players are far from "maturity" with Shaq likely approaching that stage next season.

    It's hard to tell at this point. But, if PC knows anything, he knows DBs.

    If we're not shopping for corners in this draft.....good enough answer for me.
    Elemas
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:53 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

    I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”


    Which is wrong.

    If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

    DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

    Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

    Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.

    We will have to agree to disagree. If you watch him, even if he’s beat he usually recovers in time to get his head turned around.


    Who’s “He”?

    Watch the corners defending DK Metcalf last night. How many got their heads turned when they were beat?
    Mad Dog
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Re: Tre Flowers
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:09 pm
  • We just need a 1 billion salary cap, then we could sign the best player as starters and depth here. But even then we would some that would be b!@ch that John was wasting cap space on someone as not worth their salary.
    chris98251
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Re: Tre Flowers
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:25 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

    Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

    Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.


    Please give me an example of a CB we've had under Pete that took over two years to be good?

    Browner, Maxwell, Sherman, Griffin, Earl, Kam, Lane, Thurmond etc............we knew within a year what we were getting with these guys.

    Conversely Hill, Thompson,Smith, Simon, etc we knew what we were getting with these guys within a year or two as well.......and it's not good.

    I'd put Flowers in the latter category, not the former. He's got some physical skills, but IMO he's never going to be more than a bottom tier DB, and that's not good enough for this defense. We can do better.



    I will give you one. Its on other side of flowers right now. He sucked last yr and was decent in year 1. He is now playing good.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... all22-tape

    How about shead?


    Ppl quit too much on players unless they are gods right away. Its why ppl wanna crown great 1st year players as goats.


    Shead is a very good comp for Flowers, another CB that had a couple years to develop, and never did enough for us to seriously consider him the long term answer opposite our #1 CB. Thus his departure.

    Griffin never sucked. Bad example.

    CB's in Pete's defense need to be playmakers, difference makers.........Flowers is neither of those, and IMO never will be. I'm perfectly fine with him being on the roster through the rest of his rookie contract as he's a good backup and he's cheap.

    But as a starter? Nope.


    Griffin was 110 out of 111 in rankings as a cb in 2018. Great example of a stat over a opinion.
    Shanegotyou11
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Re: Tre Flowers
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:36 am
  • We should and will be trying to improve every position on the roster. The real question is not whether we should be satisfied with a certain player, but whether the position they play could use more competition over the off-season. The answer is almost always yes.

    How awesome would it be if we find a CB in the off-season that pushes Griffin, let alone Flowers? You can't have enough good depth in the NFL.
    AgentDib
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Re: Tre Flowers
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:13 pm
  • Or keep drafting HOF players in the 5th and 6th rounds. Imagine Flowers with an average pass rush. Now with the 49ers pass rush. We need D line help way more than replacing Flowers. Sherman and Browner got tagged a lot for dpi but after a while it was just tough play. I'll take the dpi over getting burned any day.
    evergreen
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