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O Line

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O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:59 pm
  • Watch this then imagine next week against a team loaded with talent on their D line.



    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.
    hugecanoli
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Re: O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:59 pm
  • hugecanoli wrote:Watch this then imagine next week against a team loaded with talent on their D line.



    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.



    YeH been trying to fix that for 8 years, HC doesn't care about pass blocking.
    John63
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Re: O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:06 pm
  • One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.
    Jville
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Re: O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:50 pm
  • Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    They just said on tv Wilson was hit, hurried or sacked on 12 of his first 15 drop backs. We were ranked 24th in pass blocking going into today. Fyi our 2nd best behind 20th.
    John63
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Re: O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    They just said on tv Wilson was hit, hurried or sacked on 12 of his first 15 drop backs. We were ranked 24th in pass blocking going into today. Fyi our 2nd best behind 20th.


    What does any of that have to do with a response to a specific tweet or the team's upcoming truth-the-truth session.
    Jville
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Re: O Line
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:54 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    They just said on tv Wilson was hit, hurried or sacked on 12 of his first 15 drop backs. We were ranked 24th in pass blocking going into today. Fyi our 2nd best behind 20th.


    What does any of that have to do with the team's upcoming truth-the-truth session.


    What
    John63
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:01 am
  • John ........ I don't believe you can see beyond Russell Wilson. For you, the rest of the team is but a cast of extras.

    And that's ok. It's your choice.
    Jville
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:10 am
  • Jville wrote:John ........ I don't believe you can see beyond Russell Wilson. For you, the rest of the team is but a cast of extras.

    And that's ok. It's your choice.



    Lol yeah that's it, has to be could not be I have a point. Benne watching, playing or coaching over 50 years. I see the whole team better than most of you. I see a team not prepared, not disciplined. Not built around it's best player, relying on last 2nd heroics to win games. Un Willing to go with what works, adjust, undisciplined, unwilling g to fix pro lems that have existed for years. Winning regular season games but never really a contender. That's what they have become. Which is a shame because they could be more if we did what good teams do and adjust to what we have, rather than doing what they want.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:34 am
  • That has got to be one of the dumbest decisions I have seen a player make, in any position, it's right up there with the butt fumble... actually it's worse.

    Instead of blocking Chandler Jones coming right at him, he decides to let him run free and block his own lineman. Did JJ smoke some of Gordons weed before that play? I really can't imagine what he was thinking.

    On top of that, the oline is blocking 5 on 2 in the middle, yet #58 still gets through. Wtf. This coaching staff is a big fail. I have watch injured olines on other teams at least hold their own a little and play smart.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:49 am
  • Pretty funny to see the outrage over a backup missing on a protection. Jones has minimal experience at left tackle in the NFL, played just 35 snaps over the last seven weeks, and had a guy with 15 sacks lining up across from him all day. He messed up a couple of times.

    Would it have been nice for our expensive starting left tackle to be healthy instead? Of course.

    Do most teams have a better backup left tackle than Jamarco Jones? I doubt it.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:30 am
  • Football 101; O Line is the foundation of your offense. Build around the QB if you want to, but you better do a good job of it.
    Appyhawk
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:55 am
  • Why does it take PC an entire football game of his QB getting slammed to admit that he should probably use Fant in that position? So he can save him for a few plays at TE? Gimme a break.

    Fant should have started from the first snap. I just don't get how in-game adjustments seem to elude our coaching staff, at times.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:17 am
  • hugecanoli wrote:
    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.


    Sometimes I don't think you guys watch any other football. All backups suck, that's why they're backups............especially O-linemen. They have limited skillsets, they're undersized, they're old, they're rookies, on and on. Again, that's why they're not starters.

    Very few teams can sustain serious O-line injuries and still have the offense function successfully.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:21 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hugecanoli wrote:
    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.


    Sometimes I don't think you guys watch any other football. All backups suck, that's why they're backups............especially O-linemen. They have limited skillsets, they're undersized, they're old, they're rookies, on and on. Again, that's why they're not starters.

    Very few teams can sustain serious O-line injuries and still have the offense function successfully.


    Most other teams at least have offensive scheme changes that will mitigate the damage done by getting rid of the ball quickly or using rollout and play action to offset the pass rush. We just keep pounding on the brick wall then going deep with Pete ball madness.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:26 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hugecanoli wrote:
    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.


    Sometimes I don't think you guys watch any other football. All backups suck, that's why they're backups............especially O-linemen. They have limited skillsets, they're undersized, they're old, they're rookies, on and on. Again, that's why they're not starters.

    Very few teams can sustain serious O-line injuries and still have the offense function successfully.


    Most other teams at least have offensive scheme changes that will mitigate the damage done by getting rid of the ball quickly or using rollout and play action to offset the pass rush. We just keep pounding on the brick wall then going deep with Pete ball madness.


    Pete tried, he went to quick throws and screens yesterday when the run game was getting stuffed late in the 3rd quarter. But when the defense is attacking downhill and blitzing all 8-9 guys in the box and your O-line can't hold their blocks for even a second or two, that fails as well.

    I said it in another thread, Pete and John's scheme philosophy of drafting and acquiring ONLY certain types of personnel, it can't succeed outside of those schemes.

    You can't succeed in what you don't practice, preach or draft/acquire personnel to do.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:30 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hugecanoli wrote:
    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.


    Sometimes I don't think you guys watch any other football. All backups suck, that's why they're backups............especially O-linemen. They have limited skillsets, they're undersized, they're old, they're rookies, on and on. Again, that's why they're not starters.

    Very few teams can sustain serious O-line injuries and still have the offense function successfully.


    The Cowboy offense has struggled mightily when hit by all their injuries to the offensive line.

    The Ram's offense is another that fell off with all their injuries to the offensive line.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:48 am
  • Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    One snap?? Not sure what you are watching, or possibly choosing to ignore but here are the real facts over the last 8 years.

    Wilson has never had better than #20th in pass blocking his ENTIRE CAREEER in Seattle!!!

    Let me re-phrase that. Russell Wilson has never even had AVERAGE pass blocking his entire career in Seattle.

    We can no longer blame just Cable as the evidence is clear this is now a Pete Carroll issue with emphasis (obsession) with running game blocking.

    Here are the numbers Seattle has been ranked in pass blocking Russ's entire career.

    2012 20th
    2013 32nd
    2014 24th
    2015 30th
    2016 25th
    2017 25th
    2018 30th
    2019 25th

    Average that out folk!!!

    We average the # 5.6 worst pass blocking olines over an 8 year period.


    Time to take the blinders off and quit giving Pete and John passing grades on oline problems because this is destroying our #1 most expensive asset, the franchise QB. No other franchise qb has anywhere near that piss poor support from his coaching staff, NONE!

    Not even close!! :pukeface:
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:48 am
  • RockinHawks wrote:Why does it take PC an entire football game of his QB getting slammed to admit that he should probably use Fant in that position? So he can save him for a few plays at TE? Gimme a break.

    Fant should have started from the first snap. I just don't get how in-game adjustments seem to elude our coaching staff, at times.


    That's an easy one. Because our coaching staff sucks.. including our head coach...
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:01 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Let me re-phrase that. Russell Wilson has never even had AVERAGE pass blocking his entire career in Seattle.
    [/color]:


    Why would you draft, acquire and develop the personnel for a good pass blocking O-line when your entire offensive philosophy is predicated on running the football.

    I get it, we'd all love Pete to be more creative, flexible and versatile when it comes to how he builds, develops and how he schemes. But dude's the oldest coach in the league, that's not going to happen.

    When healthy, this team can compete with anyone, and that's the good news. Bad news? When this team's not healthy and hitting on all cylinders? We get destroyed by much better coaches, even with inferior personnel.

    That's on Pete, no question about it.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:03 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    One snap?? Not sure what you are watching, or possibly choosing to ignore but here are the real facts over the last 8 years.

    Wilson has never had better than #20th in pass blocking his ENTIRE CAREEER in Seattle!!!

    Let me re-phrase that. Russell Wilson has never even had AVERAGE pass blocking his entire career in Seattle.

    We can no longer blame just Cable as the evidence is clear this is now a Pete Carroll issue with emphasis (obsession) with running game blocking.

    Here are the numbers Seattle has been ranked in pass blocking Russ's entire career.

    2012 20th
    2013 32nd
    2014 24th
    2015 30th
    2016 25th
    2017 25th
    2018 30th
    2019 25th

    Average that out folk!!!

    We average the # 5.6 worst pass blocking olines over an 8 year period.


    Time to take the blinders off and quit giving Pete and John passing grades on oline problems because this is destroying our #1 most expensive asset, the franchise QB. No other franchise qb has anywhere near that piss poor support from his coaching staff, NONE!

    Not even close!! :pukeface:


    It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

    One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:09 pm
  • Jville wrote:It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

    One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>


    It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

    1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

    That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:14 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

    One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>


    It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

    1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

    That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:


    Your posts are so confused. I'll decline to attempt to make any sense out of it.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:17 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Let me re-phrase that. Russell Wilson has never even had AVERAGE pass blocking his entire career in Seattle.
    [/color]:


    Why would you draft, acquire and develop the personnel for a good pass blocking O-line when your entire offensive philosophy is predicated on running the football.

    I get it, we'd all love Pete to be more creative, flexible and versatile when it comes to how he builds, develops and how he schemes. But dude's the oldest coach in the league, that's not going to happen.

    When healthy, this team can compete with anyone, and that's the good news. Bad news? When this team's not healthy and hitting on all cylinders? We get destroyed by much better coaches, even with inferior personnel.

    That's on Pete, no question about it.


    Because it's only 50% of it and needs to be considered possibly?

    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?:

    Reason Pete does and needs Russ is because Russ IS his Oline when he runs. Now he doesn't run and the whole thing blows up in Pete's face.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:23 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

    One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>


    It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

    1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

    That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:


    Your posts are so confused. I'll decline to attempt to make any sense out of it.


    Nope, just you seem confused.
    Let me simplify this for you. You say 1 out of 50 to refute that this is NOT the norm. I posted stats saying and proving this IS THE NORM.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:25 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:34 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.


    Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

    Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:50 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.


    Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

    Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:


    There are very few QBs who could have had the success Wilson has had behind this oline, in this system. This system is built around the run and for the run PC has said it, the fact Wilson is performing at the levels he is given that and the pathetic pass blocking is incredible. There are few Qbs who could have done as good.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:52 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.


    Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

    Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:


    That's how the Rams rolled last year..........build an elite O-line to block for your mediocre QB, and it fell apart this year quicker then a K-Mart deck chair.

    So sorry, I can't buy not paying an elite QB to mask for your offense's deficiencies over trying to build an elite O-line year after year.

    Because the reality is if you have an elite QB we've always got a chance to win, every game, every year. Pumping money and development into five guys is much much harder than one if you can find that elite QB.

    You can't just say "well we can find another good QB, why pay Russell?" There are 25 teams currently trying to do what you're proposing, and not successfully.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:58 pm
  • Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

    Average would be awesome!
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:10 pm
  • Seymour wrote:Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

    Average would be awesome!


    What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

    Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:43 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.


    Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

    Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:


    That's how the Rams rolled last year..........build an elite O-line to block for your mediocre QB, and it fell apart this year quicker then a K-Mart deck chair.

    So sorry, I can't buy not paying an elite QB to mask for your offense's deficiencies over trying to build an elite O-line year after year.

    Because the reality is if you have an elite QB we've always got a chance to win, every game, every year. Pumping money and development into five guys is much much harder than one if you can find that elite QB.

    You can't just say "well we can find another good QB, why pay Russell?" There are 25 teams currently trying to do what you're proposing, and not successfully.


    Again given how long they have had, even back when Wilson was paid below market value they could have built an Avg pass blocking oline, but they have CHOSEN not to. PC has said he puts a premium on run blocking not pass blocking
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:50 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

    Average would be awesome!


    What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

    Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
    .


    Wrong!!

    Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

    We pass 53.4% of the time this season. The niners run more than we do yet they pass protect far better (#9 in pass blocking)
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:57 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

    Average would be awesome!


    What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

    Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
    .


    Wrong!!

    Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

    We pass 53.4% of the time this season.


    I am looking for a ON to be creative with the pass play we run. Our pass system is generic as hell, my 12 year old neive can tell what's coming. Early on when the run game was struggling we have layer routes, short, int, long, we had check downs. Then when our run game started going we went back to the run run throw long. Last game we needed 4 yards and yet every Wr went 20+. There is nothing wrong with 5-6 yards pass and first downs, well except to PC who has said he does not like that. But guess what that forces them to creep up and then you can go over the top.

    We no longer do anything to get guys open like picks or crossing routes, we are back to the old run and send everyone long and then hope Wilson can make magic.

    Run a real NFL caliber passing attack, that is not too much to ask.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:13 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

    Average would be awesome!


    What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

    Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
    .


    Wrong!!

    Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

    We pass 53.4% of the time this season. The niners run more than we do yet they pass protect far better (#9 in pass blocking)


    Yes, that's good for 28th in the league, and you're comparing us to the Niners who have had a bajillion first and 2nd round picks to build their entire roster, with what, three first rounders on their line?

    IMO we'd have to be in the 60-65% pass ratio before I'd agree with you...........and you know it's totally OK Seymour to just have discussions with people on here without being a complete condescending ass with each and every post.

    No need to stick an eye roll emoji into every post, or put exclamation points on every sentence like someone just slapped your mom and you're incensed.

    You can totally just type out responses like an well mannered adult. That's totally allowed. We're all on the same team bro.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:44 pm
  • The eye roll won't go away with this topic and you going clear back to when you defended Cable to the end. One for the road. :roll:

    :twisted:
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:50 pm
  • I heard Joe Thomas was on his way to Seattle!
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:53 pm
  • Seymour wrote:The eye roll won't go away with this topic and you going clear back to when you defended Cable to the end. One for the road. :roll:

    :twisted:


    Wouldn't expect anything more. On brand.
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:15 pm
  • Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.
    Last edited by Tamerlane on Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Tamerlane
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:44 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Jville wrote:John ........ I don't believe you can see beyond Russell Wilson. For you, the rest of the team is but a cast of extras.

    And that's ok. It's your choice.



    Lol yeah that's it, has to be could not be I have a point. Benne watching, playing or coaching over 50 years. I see the whole team better than most of you. I see a team not prepared, not disciplined. Not built around it's best player, relying on last 2nd heroics to win games. Un Willing to go with what works, adjust, undisciplined, unwilling g to fix pro lems that have existed for years. Winning regular season games but never really a contender. That's what they have become. Which is a shame because they could be more if we did what good teams do and adjust to what we have, rather than doing what they want.

    Pete's way got us our first Lombardi, so I'm STILL choosing Pete over you.....It's his credibility that aces you out.
    scutterhawk
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:04 pm
  • Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.

    This is a GREAT rundown of the problems that has been smothering Pete & ALL his Coaches, ^^ and NOT JUST in yesterdays game either. :irishdrinkers: to you Tamerlane.
    scutterhawk
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:09 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.

    This is a GREAT rundown of the problems that has been smothering Pete & ALL his Coaches, ^^ and NOT JUST in yesterdays game either. :irishdrinkers: to you Tamerlane.



    Great post. Great points.
    justafan
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:09 pm
  • Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.



    the olien has never anke dhigher than 20th in pass blocking in the PC era that is th epoint, they have showed not real willingness to fix it. Every Fa, or Pick was done with them ssaying he is a good run blocker. That is the point of all this and has been for 8+ years.
    John63
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:06 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .


    Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

    That's why.


    I think you're pretty close to the overall truth. Bottom line is Russ is getting older and less elusive. In order for him to continue to make a large difference in wins they are going to have to improve on the numbers Seymour posted. Whether Pete is willing or not..... Trading for Duane Brown was a step in the right direction.
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:20 pm
  • Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.

    Can we have a word limit on posts in here ? or is it established at 50,000 words already ?
    xray
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:16 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Jville wrote:One snap out of 50 plus. Never-the-less, that's going to be a moment of acknowledgement for Jamarco Jones on tell the truth Tuesday or Wednesday on what ever day that review is scheduled.


    They just said on tv Wilson was hit, hurried or sacked on 12 of his first 15 drop backs. We were ranked 24th in pass blocking going into today. Fyi our 2nd best behind 20th.


    What does any of that have to do with a response to a specific tweet or the team's upcoming truth-the-truth session.

    You seem to be implying that this play was an outlier, and not representative of Jones' or the Line's overall performance.

    If that's not what you're trying to convey then what is your point?

    Jones had an abysmal game even if you subtract this play. This calls in to question a few things:

    1) Why did we play Jones over Fant at LT? Should we play Fant at LT next game?

    2) Could we have schemed better to prevent Jones from getting isolated against the NFL sack leader who ended up with FOUR SACKS in the game?

    3) Does Jones have a future at T or is he limited to playing inside? His pre-draft measurables were extremely poor for an outside pass protector (or for an OL to be honest).
    A-Dog
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:05 pm
  • BREAKING NEWS- A bad Oline has bad back ups.
    Subzero717
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:55 pm
  • xray wrote:
    Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.

    Can we have a word limit on posts in here ? or is it established at 50,000 words already ?


    Need to take your Adderall meds for more focus obviously, thought it was a great post,
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:02 pm
  • Tamerlane wrote:Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

    The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

    Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

    The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

    However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

    I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

    NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.



    Ahh we did not abandon the run till we had to. As to rest some good, some bad, so misguided but at least a well thought out post.
    Last edited by John63 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
    John63
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Re: O Line
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:18 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hugecanoli wrote:
    Wow. Backups or not this position group has sucked or been barely mediocre for years.
    k

    Sometimes I don't think you guys watch any other football. All backups suck, that's why they're backups............especially O-linemen. They have limited skillsets, they're undersized, they're old, they're rookies, on and on. Again, that's why they're not starters.

    Very few teams can sustain serious O-line injuries and still have the offense function successfully.

    Yeah but even when the starting 5 are in, they still mostly suck.
    HawkerD
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Re: O Line
Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:14 am
  • Jville wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

    One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>


    It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

    1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

    That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:


    Your posts are so confused. I'll decline to attempt to make any sense out of it.

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :snack:
    IndyHawk
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