Shaq Griffin as a DE

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Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:27 pm
  • I noticed something during the game, started to formulate a theory, wanted to see what you guys thought.

    Literally every single snap, Shaq simple ran full speed as fast as he could towards the tackles outside shoulder. Almost no swim moves, hand fighting, or any other sort of pass rush technique, which I know he has, even from just his college tape.

    Then I started to notice, this was making his tackle have to kick out EXTREMELY wide in order to deal with his speed. A lot of the plays Reed and the interior guys made seemed to stem from the fact that they had about 6 yards of open field to work with from the space Shaq's tackle vacated.

    A lot of us are complaining that Shaq contributed almost no pressure, but I am almost wondering if that was by design. PC had seen Ansah be ineffective for a long time, and if I had to guess probably knew Shaq was too small to contribute much as a traditional pass rusher. So maybe he tried something new.

    I have no idea for sure, just was curious on what your guys thoughts were or if anyone noticed a similar trend.
    bbsplitter
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:31 pm
  • I noticed that too but sucks cuz once a lineman touched him it was over.
    Shanegotyou11
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:36 pm
  • You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.
    sutz
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:43 pm
  • sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.


    For sure it will probably be figured out, but then again keeping the RB in the backfield is one less underneath route our linebackers need to deal with, and those have gouged us for big yards in the past.

    Not necessarily saying they should stick with it, but if it was their intention, not a bad in-game wrinkle scheme adjustment for the 1 game.
    bbsplitter
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:47 pm
  • bbsplitter wrote:
    sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.


    For sure it will probably be figured out, but then again keeping the RB in the backfield is one less underneath route our linebackers need to deal with, and those have gouged us for big yards in the past.

    Not necessarily saying they should stick with it, but if it was their intention, not a bad in-game wrinkle scheme adjustment for the 1 game.


    He'd also match up better with a RB and can then use those moves you spoke of with speed
    EmbattleTheeHawks
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:50 pm
  • bbsplitter wrote:I noticed something during the game, started to formulate a theory, wanted to see what you guys thought.

    Literally every single snap, Shaq simple ran full speed as fast as he could towards the tackles outside shoulder. Almost no swim moves, hand fighting, or any other sort of pass rush technique, which I know he has, even from just his college tape.


    I saw two times he tried to stunt inside as well, so it wasn't just trying to speed rush.

    He's too small to be effective against NFL guards and especially tackles, with just pure speed rushes. To be a great, or even good DE, it takes everything.........size, speed, burst, technique and leverage.

    Quem's got speed and burst, and that's just not enough. But I applaud Pete for trying, we gotta figure something out at the other DE. Cause right now it's dead weight.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:59 pm
  • It looked like he had some juice for sure. It also looked like the RT held/tackled him a few times.
    kobebryant
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:15 pm
  • Love this guy as a excellent special team player. Will always have a role on this team as that
    theseahawkguy
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:28 pm
  • sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.

    Maybe so, but even at that, he's forcing Offenses to HAVE to designate a player in the lineup to account for him & his speed, thus, freeing someone else up on the Defensive attack.
    With Ziggy's ineffectiveness due to not playing @ 100%, Queem seems to be a nice speedy alternative.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:08 pm
  • FinNasty
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:16 pm
  • FinNasty wrote:



    Great find! "Tackled 4 times." I believe somebody above posted the same thing.

    I think he could be effective as an alternate pass rusher. He can be a decoy, he can stunt and look for a hole where a Guard's lumbering feet would be ineffective. We've seen lots of DBs and LBs be effective at this over the years. And Shaquem was good at it in College. So with some time, he could be a weapon to keep OL on their tippy toes.
    ivotuk
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:31 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:
    FinNasty wrote:



    Great find! "Tackled 4 times." I believe somebody above posted the same thing.

    I think he could be effective as an alternate pass rusher. He can be a decoy, he can stunt and look for a hole where a Guard's lumbering feet would be ineffective. We've seen lots of DBs and LBs be effective at this over the years. And Shaquem was good at it in College. So with some time, he could be a weapon to keep OL on their tippy toes.


    Pretty much this. Sgt. Largent seems to by focused on a silver bullet DE solution that fits all needs but that just isn't realistic. It's all about finding different mixes and rotations to fit situations. Quem isn't the solution, but he might be part of a solution.
    HawkGA
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:56 pm
  • Dude has hops. Anyone else see him almost deflect passes 12 feet up in the air? I think he has some fire.
    Sealake80
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:32 pm
  • People on here have been begging FOREVER for Pete to put him in as a pass rusher. Finally got our wish! Pete was a little late to the party, but maybe Norton or a D QC coach reads this board, and put the bug in Pete's ear. .NET, FTW, once again!
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:21 am
  • It's been almost 2 years since he really got to rush the passer. Has a little bit of rust to shake off there and get back in his groove... but he definitely showed some promise.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:38 am
  • FinNasty wrote:It's been almost 2 years since he really got to rush the passer. Has a little bit of rust to shake off there and get back in his groove... but he definitely showed some promise.


    Maybe. I think Griffin is just too small, as Pete alluded to yesterday in his presser to just line up off the edge in obvious passing downs to rush the QB.

    IMO the ideal situation for Griffin would be in a blitzing capacity from the LB position, like we do with Kendricks or Bobby...........but that would entail Griffin being trusted at that LB spot. But that IS the position he could do some damage with his speed, on delayed blitzes where he can find a crack in the line and explode to the QB.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:50 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FinNasty wrote:It's been almost 2 years since he really got to rush the passer. Has a little bit of rust to shake off there and get back in his groove... but he definitely showed some promise.


    Maybe. I think Griffin is just too small, as Pete alluded to yesterday in his presser to just line up off the edge in obvious passing downs to rush the QB.

    IMO the ideal situation for Griffin would be in a blitzing capacity from the LB position, like we do with Kendricks or Bobby...........but that would entail Griffin being trusted at that LB spot. But that IS the position he could do some damage with his speed, on delayed blitzes where he can find a crack in the line and explode to the QB.

    All true, and it was a different era, but I think 'Queem is the same size as Rufus Porter. ;)

    It's been a feel good story, but perhaps it is time for him to prove he really belongs on the field. I'm pulling for him, and I'll admit that is more emotional than "football value" speaking, but those demanding he needs to prove his worth are not totally wrong. Going down the stretch here, we'll need all the talent we can get on the field. Hopefully he can contribute.

    Bottom line, though, he didn't cost all that much draft capital, and he contributes a lot on special teams (40% of snaps IIRC). Even if that's all he ever is, he's overcome a lot to get where he is.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:02 am
  • sutz wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FinNasty wrote:It's been almost 2 years since he really got to rush the passer. Has a little bit of rust to shake off there and get back in his groove... but he definitely showed some promise.


    Maybe. I think Griffin is just too small, as Pete alluded to yesterday in his presser to just line up off the edge in obvious passing downs to rush the QB.

    IMO the ideal situation for Griffin would be in a blitzing capacity from the LB position, like we do with Kendricks or Bobby...........but that would entail Griffin being trusted at that LB spot. But that IS the position he could do some damage with his speed, on delayed blitzes where he can find a crack in the line and explode to the QB.

    All true, and it was a different era, but I think 'Queem is the same size as Rufus Porter. ;)

    It's been a feel good story, but perhaps it is time for him to prove he really belongs on the field. I'm pulling for him, and I'll admit that is more emotional than "football value" speaking, but those demanding he needs to prove his worth are not totally wrong. Going down the stretch here, we'll need all the talent we can get on the field. Hopefully he can contribute.

    Bottom line, though, he didn't cost all that much draft capital, and he contributes a lot on special teams (40% of snaps IIRC). Even if that's all he ever is, he's overcome a lot to get where he is.


    I was thinking more Fred Young, but Porter is a good comp as well.

    It's why I've said Quem would probably thrive in a 3-4 defense where he can be the outside backer covering the flat, TE's, RB's, etc................ and getting to rush and blitz without having to beat a guard or tackle one on one.

    But yes, he's cheap and a good special teams player. But the writing's on the wall with his long term success here, you don't draft BBK and Barton if you think Quem's the answer as a starting LB long term.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:03 am
  • Well if anyone can figure it out, it'll be Pete Carroll.

    A wide nine rush and nickle cover linebacker for sub package duty in a hybrid look I suppose.

    Something to keep an eye out for as it develops.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:06 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    sutz wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FinNasty wrote:It's been almost 2 years since he really got to rush the passer. Has a little bit of rust to shake off there and get back in his groove... but he definitely showed some promise.


    Maybe. I think Griffin is just too small, as Pete alluded to yesterday in his presser to just line up off the edge in obvious passing downs to rush the QB.

    IMO the ideal situation for Griffin would be in a blitzing capacity from the LB position, like we do with Kendricks or Bobby...........but that would entail Griffin being trusted at that LB spot. But that IS the position he could do some damage with his speed, on delayed blitzes where he can find a crack in the line and explode to the QB.

    All true, and it was a different era, but I think 'Queem is the same size as Rufus Porter. ;)

    It's been a feel good story, but perhaps it is time for him to prove he really belongs on the field. I'm pulling for him, and I'll admit that is more emotional than "football value" speaking, but those demanding he needs to prove his worth are not totally wrong. Going down the stretch here, we'll need all the talent we can get on the field. Hopefully he can contribute.

    Bottom line, though, he didn't cost all that much draft capital, and he contributes a lot on special teams (40% of snaps IIRC). Even if that's all he ever is, he's overcome a lot to get where he is.


    I was thinking more Fred Young, but Porter is a good comp as well.

    It's why I've said Quem would probably thrive in a 3-4 defense where he can be the outside backer covering the flat, TE's, RB's, etc................ and getting to rush and blitz without having to beat a guard or tackle one on one.

    But yes, he's cheap and a good special teams player. But the writing's on the wall with his long term success here, you don't draft BBK and Barton if you think Quem's the answer as a starting LB long term.

    Fredd Young was more of an actual LB IIRC. Rufus was never much more than a pure pass rusher. That's why I comp'd him.

    Good point about BBK and Barton, although our star LB corps is a bit long in the tooth, and long term The B's seem more like backups for them. In a year or two, one or both of them might be starters regardless of 'Queem's status.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:57 am
  • I read somewhere that Ansah is on his way out of playing time because
    Pete is getting fed up with getting nothing from him.
    So Shaq while small is super fast and used in creative ways can bring
    more than Ziggy was all season.I think the MNF game showed that but
    Pete being stubborn took awhile to go to it.
    IndyHawk
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:17 am
  • I think it's safe to say that the Seahawks are going to phase out Ziggy Ansah, if not simply remove him from the lineup all together. Pete Carroll said last week that Ansah was 10 pounds away from where he needed to be and that he still hadn't regained all the strength in his shoulder.

    So it wasn't a huge surprise to see Shaquem Griffin play his first defensive snaps of the season (13 to be exact) because, let's face it, he truly couldn't have been worse than Ansah. I'd still temper expectations from what Griffin can do as a pass rusher. He's vastly undersized at just 227 pounds, but the benefit of Griffin is that you get his motor. His work rate is far superior to Ansah's, and he's also better in coverage. That counts for something.

    Seattle tried to rotate the two on Monday, but Ansah was quickly pulled out of the game after an egregious offsides penalty on San Francisco's final drive of regulation.

    "It's really clear, more than it has been, that we might be able to build a role that could be a factor," Carroll said of Griffin on Tuesday. "We have to work at that more so just to use his speed. He's instinctively a good rusher. He's just not very big. You have to do special things with him. We'll put that together and see if we can make that a good complement to what we're doing."

    Griffin is a smart football player, and it will be interesting to see what he does with the opportunity that appears to be before him.



    https://sports.yahoo.com/fann-mail-zigg ... 35468.html
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:16 am
  • sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.


    This later thought is what I observed, Reed, Poona, Jefferson and Woods pushed the middle all game and that pressure was causing JGQ to move in the pocket or have to reset taking away from his time to look for his receivers and was pushing him towards the edge rush. Was this by design or is this a weakness of the Digit OLine the team was able to exploit? Perhaps both possibly, or a consequence of the damage being created by Clowney who was quite unblockable. Moving speed to the opposite edge and spreading their OLine opened the middle to stunts and twists from their inside protection and made combo blocks less effective. The speed of Quem created a diversion that took away their ability to roll protection to Clowney’s side.

    It was an interesting in game adjustment that was confounding the Digits ability to deal with the pressure clowney was putting on their lLT.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:59 am
  • jammerhawk wrote:
    sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.


    This later thought is what I observed, Reed, Poona, Jefferson and Woods pushed the middle all game and that pressure was causing JGQ to move in the pocket or have to reset taking away from his time to look for his receivers and was pushing him towards the edge rush. Was this by design or is this a weakness of the Digit OLine the team was able to exploit? Perhaps both possibly, or a consequence of the damage being created by Clowney who was quite unblockable. Moving speed to the opposite edge and spreading their OLine opened the middle to stunts and twists from their inside protection and made combo blocks less effective. The speed of Quem created a diversion that took away their ability to roll protection to Clowney’s side.

    It was an interesting in game adjustment that was confounding the Digits ability to deal with the pressure clowney was putting on their lLT.

    Given some time to coordinate with each other, that could be an effective long term strategy. Fans, and especially FF freaks tend to focus too much on sacks, and don't consider how the line needs to work together as a unit to take advantage of an O-line's weaknesses. Certainly, something needed to be done, and signing free agents can be a bit of a crap shoot, especially mid-season.

    Back in the day, Rufus Porter was one of those "too light" LB's that turned into a pretty effective pass rusher. Now, he was an OLB in a 3-4 set, but using Queem in a similar role could lead to some success. Porter never topped 230# IIRC, so we're talking similar body types and speed. It worked for Chuck, it could work for Pete.

    Oh, and I've noticed them dropping Clowney in coverage from time to time. Probably not a good idea.
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:14 am
  • If Shaquem can really work on his strength and balance in the offseason, I think there might be something there. Pete is always willing to set trends and go against the grain. Maybe he can become an explosive hybrid version of Poona. Or the D-lineman version of Hunt. Using his strength and leverage to win one on one.

    This is what I love about football. Anything is possible
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Re: Shaq Griffin as a DE
Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:10 am
  • sutz wrote:You may have a point, but you have to wonder how long that could last once the video gets out.

    Teams will just put an RB on him and that would go away. Did seem that we got much more interior pressure out of Reed and Co all night.


    And when they do he uses his swim moves...

    You use him differently based on who he is going up against.
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