Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!

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Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:25 pm
  • How do we keep Clowney ?

    My hope is that his comments about wanting to play in Seattle were from his heart, and he’ll be willing to negotiate a reasonable deal for both sides.

    I was stoked to get him, I’m fearful that we won’t be able to keep him.

    Hopefully last night (vs 9ers) showed everyone just what an impact player he can be.

    So, can we afford him?
    IMHO JC should be pretty high on the priority list.
    pmedic920
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Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:28 pm
  • This was meant for main page not the shack.

    Mods please move.



    Edit:
    Thank you.
    pmedic920
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:22 pm
  • Bump
    pmedic920
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:25 pm
  • We have a ton of cap space next year. We will be able to sign Clowney easily.
    HawkStrong
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:27 pm
  • We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.
    Tical21
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:30 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/9/14/20 ... owney-fant
    HawkStrong
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:57 pm
  • I'm pretty sure this year is the last year in which we are carrying the dead money contract from Kam Chancellor, since his salary was guaranteed until 2020 (I think?). I also believe the guaranteed money was around 8-9 million. So that immediately gets alleviated, which is great news.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:28 pm
  • Seahawks have $67.7 million of available cap this coming offseason, 7th most. If they want to re-sign Clowney then they will have the ability to do so. I think his play last night justifies a large contract.
    jammerhawk
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:30 pm
  • JS also has the ability to restructure other contracts favorably. He's a financial ninja in the back office, while still treating the players well.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:54 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/9/14/20 ... owney-fant



    How dare you show facts. Sarcasm off.

    Everyone knows we will have planty of cap space.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:12 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    Tical, cap numbers are not big in year 1 of new deals. Look at Frank Clark, Khalil Mack, etc, their cap number is around $10M APY in the first year. You and many others seem to think they will have a cap hit of their APY in year 1, which just isn't the case. Look at any big contract and see for yourself.

    $70M in cap space + cutting Britt & Ed Dickson isn't enough space huh? :P


    Playing with the calculator on otc.

    I cut Britt & Dickson. I tendered Seattle's ERFA's and only a couple of Seattle's RFA's in Hollister & Hunt.


    Giving the Seahawks $72M in cap space with 46 players on the roster.

    They could gain even more space if needed by cutting KJ Wright -$6M, McDougald -$4M, Fluker -$3M

    Needing to sign Clowney, Reed, & Jefferson as their big UFAs. If they even want to re-sign Reed & Jefferson.

    Seattle will be big players in Free Agency, as I could see them pursuing D-Lineman heavily to add to Clowney if they can get him done, and then looking to DB in the draft.

    If Clowney is signed away because some crazy team out there backs up the brink's truck. Best believe Seattle will pursue passrushers aggressively. Similar to what GB did this year, in spite of paying Rodgers top money. They still had plenty of room to sign the Smith brothers. and a litany of other UFAs.


    Seattle is in excellent position salary cap wise, and draft pick wise going into the off-season.


    Now go look at LA's & SF's cap situations and have a good laugh.

    SF will have $15M in space with 43 players under contract with Emanual Sanders, Arik Armstead, & Jimmie Ward set to be UFA's, and they will need to extend George Kittle.

    LA is even worse. They will have $26.6M, but a lot more big UFAs. Dante Fowler, Whitworth (probably will retire), Michael Brockers, Corey Littleton, Greg the Leg, and needing to extend Cooper Kupp, and John Johnson.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:09 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    Tical, cap numbers are not big in year 1 of new deals. Look at Frank Clark, Khalil Mack, etc, their cap number is around $10M APY in the first year. You and many others seem to think they will have a cap hit of their APY in year 1, which just isn't the case. Look at any big contract and see for yourself.

    $70M in cap space + cutting Britt & Ed Dickson isn't enough space huh? :P


    Playing with the calculator on otc.

    I cut Britt & Dickson. I tendered Seattle's ERFA's and only a couple of Seattle's RFA's in Hollister & Hunt.


    Giving the Seahawks $72M in cap space with 46 players on the roster.

    They could gain even more space if needed by cutting KJ Wright -$6M, McDougald -$4M, Fluker -$3M

    Needing to sign Clowney, Reed, & Jefferson as their big UFAs. If they even want to re-sign Reed & Jefferson.

    Seattle will be big players in Free Agency, as I could see them pursuing D-Lineman heavily to add to Clowney if they can get him done, and then looking to DB in the draft.

    If Clowney is signed away because some crazy team out there backs up the brink's truck. Best believe Seattle will pursue passrushers aggressively. Similar to what GB did this year, in spite of paying Rodgers top money. They still had plenty of room to sign the Smith brothers. and a litany of other UFAs.


    Seattle is in excellent position salary cap wise, and draft pick wise going into the off-season.


    Now go look at LA's & SF's cap situations and have a good laugh.

    SF will have $15M in space with 43 players under contract with Emanual Sanders, Arik Armstead, & Jimmie Ward set to be UFA's, and they will need to extend George Kittle.

    LA is even worse. They will have $26.6M, but a lot more big UFAs. Dante Fowler, Whitworth (probably will retire), Michael Brockers, Corey Littleton, Greg the Leg, and needing to extend Cooper Kupp, and John Johnson.

    Awesome, thanks Fade! :2thumbs:
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:24 pm
  • Plus, the bloom is off the rose on both Jared Goff and JimmyG. They are big cap hits and are a big downgrade from Russell Wilson.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple solid veterans coming over on reasonable deals, like Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett did, to be part of what looks to be a strong contending team.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:50 am
  • Fade wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    Tical, cap numbers are not big in year 1 of new deals. Look at Frank Clark, Khalil Mack, etc, their cap number is around $10M APY in the first year. You and many others seem to think they will have a cap hit of their APY in year 1, which just isn't the case. Look at any big contract and see for yourself.

    $70M in cap space + cutting Britt & Ed Dickson isn't enough space huh? :P


    Playing with the calculator on otc.

    I cut Britt & Dickson. I tendered Seattle's ERFA's and only a couple of Seattle's RFA's in Hollister & Hunt.


    Giving the Seahawks $72M in cap space with 46 players on the roster.

    They could gain even more space if needed by cutting KJ Wright -$6M, McDougald -$4M, Fluker -$3M

    Needing to sign Clowney, Reed, & Jefferson as their big UFAs. If they even want to re-sign Reed & Jefferson.

    Seattle will be big players in Free Agency, as I could see them pursuing D-Lineman heavily to add to Clowney if they can get him done, and then looking to DB in the draft.

    If Clowney is signed away because some crazy team out there backs up the brink's truck. Best believe Seattle will pursue passrushers aggressively. Similar to what GB did this year, in spite of paying Rodgers top money. They still had plenty of room to sign the Smith brothers. and a litany of other UFAs.


    Seattle is in excellent position salary cap wise, and draft pick wise going into the off-season.


    Now go look at LA's & SF's cap situations and have a good laugh.

    SF will have $15M in space with 43 players under contract with Emanual Sanders, Arik Armstead, & Jimmie Ward set to be UFA's, and they will need to extend George Kittle.

    LA is even worse. They will have $26.6M, but a lot more big UFAs. Dante Fowler, Whitworth (probably will retire), Michael Brockers, Corey Littleton, Greg the Leg, and needing to extend Cooper Kupp, and John Johnson.

    45 million before Clowney and Reed. Even with first-year cap discounts, that's 25-30 mil. If we re-sign both of them, I will bet you anything you want to bet that we are not major players in free agency. We possibly sign a tier 2/3 free agent and then a couple budget depth moves.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:57 am
  • Just a reminder, the Seahawks under JS/PC have never been major players in free agency. Available cap space is most likely going to be used on retaining/extending current players more so than big free agent splashes.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:51 am
  • In a rare oversight, Jason Fitzgerald (OTC) has yet to get back to the task of updating the numbers for Quandre Diggs as it applies to the Seahawks 2020 and 2021 projected OTA cap numbers. So cap space for both years look to be reading $5+million higher than they actually should be.

    Diggs is a potentially instructive case. He looks like he may project higher value in Seattle's system than he did in Detroit's ..... which likely precipitated the trade.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:54 am
  • Jville wrote:In a rare oversight, Jason Fitzgerald (OTC) has yet to get back to the task of updating the numbers for Quandre Diggs as it applies to the Seahawks 2020 and 2021 projected OTA cap numbers. So cap space for both years look to be reading $5+million higher than they actually should be.

    Diggs is a potentially instructive case. He looks like he may project higher value in Seattle's system than he did in Detroit's ..... which likely precipitated the trade.

    Diggs was no where near the value we got with Clowney, but it still shows how JS can find a quality player at a position of need at good cap value. Guy's a genius.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:09 am
  • Fade wrote:
    Needing to sign Clowney, Reed, & Jefferson as their big UFAs. If they even want to re-sign Reed & Jefferson..


    If I had to guess, we go hard after Clowney, and sign either Reed or Jefferson, but not both.........and yes no reason to give Fluker another deal, not with how well Jones is playing.

    Bottom line, no matter how you look at our cap for next year, there's plenty of room to do whatever you want at any position.

    All we have to hope is Clowney loves it here enough to not go elsewhere for maybe an extra 1M or 2M if someone else tries to outbid us.......and I think he does love it here, he's said so numerous times now that he loves Pete, loves the culture and loves his teammates.

    That isn't everything, obviously money talks. But it is a major factor.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:19 am
  • Lots of room.

    First, it's true we have a lot of UFAs to replace in 2020. Not all of them will be retained:

    1. Kendricks (Barton or BBK will likely replace) 4.5m
    2. Ansah (no immediate replacement) 9.5m Likely will be replaced by UFA addition as draft is weak
    3. Iupati (Haynes likely replaces) 2.5m Also very strong draft for OL in the 20-90 overall range.
    4. Ifedi (no immediate replacement) 6.8m Likely resign Fant to this figure and also add OT via draft
    5. Reed (no immediate replacement) 2.8m Probably resigns in the 8-9m range. Also DT market is LOADED in 2020.
    6. Jaron Brown (lots of options on team) 1.5m

    Truthfully, there isn't a whole lot of players that are in the resign mix. We do have a lot of ancillary players who probably either are allowed to test the market and if they go, can be equally replaced by a post June 1 type UFA.

    Additionally, you look at 2021 UFAs and you see more savings:

    1. Justin Britt (OC is typically a fungible/easy position to address) 11.66 M with only 2.9m dead money. He will be released.
    2. KJ Wright (Barton or BBK). 8.5m with 2.5m dead money.
    3. Ed Dickson (Dissly/Hollister/UFA or draft pick). 4.2m with 0.8m dead

    So we have a whole lot of 'savings' when we look at the final void years of these contracts as well. Easily over 10m just right here.

    I thought at the time we made the Barton and BBK picks, that we were prepping the roster to get out from under the Wright/Kendricks contracts. Or at the minimum get out from ONE of them in 2020. Allowing them to marinate in the system and get a couple of TCs under their belts so that they'd be ready to roll when needed at that time.

    OC should be relatively easily replaced via the draft. There is good quality in this draft at the OL position.

    Seattle has realistically more cap space than even we assume they do right now. And are already *mostly* set up to slot in replacements that are already on the roster and developing. I expect we'll hedge that with some street UFA/cap casualty UFA or general post June 1 options.

    We could offer Clowney a 'max' type deal and still have ample cash left over to address everything else. Even if it requires adding mid level (~4m per year) qualifying UFAs for a small handful of these.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:33 am
  • If we sign Clowney and Reed...we will have spent more money on our top-4 players than any team besides the Rams has spent on their top 5. We might actually spend more on our top-3 than anyone else has spent on their top 4. Then our secondary contracts of Brown, Lockett, KJ (who we obviously can't let go of after his stellar performance this season), Britt (IDK) and the safeties. LOL at thinking we're going to be cap rich. You simply haven't done the math. We're going to end up with somewhere around 10-15 million to fill a dozen slots.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:08 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:If we sign Clowney and Reed...we will have spent more money on our top-4 players than any team besides the Rams has spent on their top 5. We might actually spend more on our top-3 than anyone else has spent on their top 4. Then our secondary contracts of Brown, Lockett, KJ (who we obviously can't let go of after his stellar performance this season), Britt (IDK) and the safeties. LOL at thinking we're going to be cap rich. You simply haven't done the math. We're going to end up with somewhere around 10-15 million to fill a dozen slots.


    Iupati: 3M
    Britt: 12M
    Fluker: 3.5M
    Wright: 8.5M

    There's another 27-28M you just freed up with players we probably will cut or not resign next year.....and there are a bunch more 2nd and 3rd stringers like Moore, Brown, Prosise, etc that we're not bringing back that'll free up more cap.

    So yes, we've done the math, plenty of room to do whatever we want to do to try to snag Clowney and probably Reed, who REALLY screwed himself in his contract year by getting suspended, and we can probably get for a much lower extension then we would have had to pay him if he played in the first six games and balled out.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:39 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:If we sign Clowney and Reed...we will have spent more money on our top-4 players than any team besides the Rams has spent on their top 5. We might actually spend more on our top-3 than anyone else has spent on their top 4. Then our secondary contracts of Brown, Lockett, KJ (who we obviously can't let go of after his stellar performance this season), Britt (IDK) and the safeties. LOL at thinking we're going to be cap rich. You simply haven't done the math. We're going to end up with somewhere around 10-15 million to fill a dozen slots.


    Ok, just top 5 contracts on books for NFC teams in 2020:

    Sea 76m:

    31m Wilson
    14.7m Wagner
    12.5m Brown
    11.6m Britt (likely relieved)
    10.2m Lockett

    ATL 100m:

    33.5m Ryan
    20.4m Jones
    16m Matthews
    16m Jarrett
    15m Trufant

    Ari 67m (rookie deal QB):

    21.3m Jones
    14.2m Johnson
    13.1m Peterson
    10.5m Pugh
    10m Hicks

    Carolina 78m:

    21.1m Newton
    20.9m Short
    13.7m Kuechly
    13.3m Poe
    12.8m Turner

    Chicago 82m (rookie deal QB):

    26.6m Mack
    17.5m Fuller
    15m Robinson
    13.2m Floyd
    11.8m Hicks

    Dallas 62m (no QB under contract yet):

    21.9m Lawrence
    15m Martin
    13.5m Smith
    11.9m Frederick
    10.9m Elliott

    Detroit 84m:

    31.5m Stafford
    16.7m Flowers
    13.4m Slay
    11.9m Wagner
    11.7m Harrison

    GB 84m:

    32.6m Rodgers
    17.2m Smith
    16.6m Adams
    14.2m Bakhtiari
    13.5m Smith

    I could go on. But quite obviously we are NOT paying the top dollar for top 5 contracts. In fact in this cursory list, we're the lowest of the teams that have a QB on the second/third deal. And even then, we're right in line.

    One can easily have a 30m + 20m contract at the top 2 and still manage your cap quite easily. Seattle doesn't have a slew of pro bowl talent at ancillary positions that they have to pay 12m+ to retain. Obviously not all of these top 5 deals will still be on the book in 2020 (some will become cap casualties as we expect Britt to do). But it's pretty easy to see that other teams have top heavy composition just as we would with a Clowney deal.

    What would be worse, is if we're paying non LT/DE/QB contracts in the top 5 overall. Or more to the point, not having LT/DE/QB players WORTH top 5 overall contracts. Seattle is kind of blessed to have the option to pay for quality at those three premium positions. Most teams don't have that option if they wanted it.

    Doing the rough math (or looking at how other teams are doing it), and it's pretty clear that we can pay him without a second thought.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:57 pm
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:If we sign Clowney and Reed...we will have spent more money on our top-4 players than any team besides the Rams has spent on their top 5. We might actually spend more on our top-3 than anyone else has spent on their top 4. Then our secondary contracts of Brown, Lockett, KJ (who we obviously can't let go of after his stellar performance this season), Britt (IDK) and the safeties. LOL at thinking we're going to be cap rich. You simply haven't done the math. We're going to end up with somewhere around 10-15 million to fill a dozen slots.


    Ok, just top 5 contracts on books for NFC teams in 2020:

    Sea 76m:

    31m Wilson
    14.7m Wagner
    12.5m Brown
    11.6m Britt (likely relieved)
    10.2m Lockett

    ATL 100m:

    33.5m Ryan
    20.4m Jones
    16m Matthews
    16m Jarrett
    15m Trufant

    Ari 67m (rookie deal QB):

    21.3m Jones
    14.2m Johnson
    13.1m Peterson
    10.5m Pugh
    10m Hicks

    Carolina 78m:

    21.1m Newton
    20.9m Short
    13.7m Kuechly
    13.3m Poe
    12.8m Turner

    Chicago 82m (rookie deal QB):

    26.6m Mack
    17.5m Fuller
    15m Robinson
    13.2m Floyd
    11.8m Hicks

    Dallas 62m (no QB under contract yet):

    21.9m Lawrence
    15m Martin
    13.5m Smith
    11.9m Frederick
    10.9m Elliott

    Detroit 84m:

    31.5m Stafford
    16.7m Flowers
    13.4m Slay
    11.9m Wagner
    11.7m Harrison

    GB 84m:

    32.6m Rodgers
    17.2m Smith
    16.6m Adams
    14.2m Bakhtiari
    13.5m Smith

    I could go on. But quite obviously we are NOT paying the top dollar for top 5 contracts. In fact in this cursory list, we're the lowest of the teams that have a QB on the second/third deal. And even then, we're right in line.

    One can easily have a 30m + 20m contract at the top 2 and still manage your cap quite easily. Seattle doesn't have a slew of pro bowl talent at ancillary positions that they have to pay 12m+ to retain. Obviously not all of these top 5 deals will still be on the book in 2020 (some will become cap casualties as we expect Britt to do). But it's pretty easy to see that other teams have top heavy composition just as we would with a Clowney deal.

    What would be worse, is if we're paying non LT/DE/QB contracts in the top 5 overall. Or more to the point, not having LT/DE/QB players WORTH top 5 overall contracts. Seattle is kind of blessed to have the option to pay for quality at those three premium positions. Most teams don't have that option if they wanted it.

    Doing the rough math (or looking at how other teams are doing it), and it's pretty clear that we can pay him without a second thought.

    Wow, I hadn't even thought to look at Atlanta. So I guess we'll be second after Reed/Clowney? Probably 10million more than in third, and second only to an awful, old, overpriced team. A lot of those teams that will be somewhat close are dumpster fires that have committed suicide.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:25 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:If we sign Clowney and Reed...we will have spent more money on our top-4 players than any team besides the Rams has spent on their top 5. We might actually spend more on our top-3 than anyone else has spent on their top 4. Then our secondary contracts of Brown, Lockett, KJ (who we obviously can't let go of after his stellar performance this season), Britt (IDK) and the safeties. LOL at thinking we're going to be cap rich. You simply haven't done the math. We're going to end up with somewhere around 10-15 million to fill a dozen slots.


    Ok, just top 5 contracts on books for NFC teams in 2020:

    Sea 76m:

    31m Wilson
    14.7m Wagner
    12.5m Brown
    11.6m Britt (likely relieved)
    10.2m Lockett

    ATL 100m:

    33.5m Ryan
    20.4m Jones
    16m Matthews
    16m Jarrett
    15m Trufant

    Ari 67m (rookie deal QB):

    21.3m Jones
    14.2m Johnson
    13.1m Peterson
    10.5m Pugh
    10m Hicks

    Carolina 78m:

    21.1m Newton
    20.9m Short
    13.7m Kuechly
    13.3m Poe
    12.8m Turner

    Chicago 82m (rookie deal QB):

    26.6m Mack
    17.5m Fuller
    15m Robinson
    13.2m Floyd
    11.8m Hicks

    Dallas 62m (no QB under contract yet):

    21.9m Lawrence
    15m Martin
    13.5m Smith
    11.9m Frederick
    10.9m Elliott

    Detroit 84m:

    31.5m Stafford
    16.7m Flowers
    13.4m Slay
    11.9m Wagner
    11.7m Harrison

    GB 84m:

    32.6m Rodgers
    17.2m Smith
    16.6m Adams
    14.2m Bakhtiari
    13.5m Smith

    I could go on. But quite obviously we are NOT paying the top dollar for top 5 contracts. In fact in this cursory list, we're the lowest of the teams that have a QB on the second/third deal. And even then, we're right in line.

    One can easily have a 30m + 20m contract at the top 2 and still manage your cap quite easily. Seattle doesn't have a slew of pro bowl talent at ancillary positions that they have to pay 12m+ to retain. Obviously not all of these top 5 deals will still be on the book in 2020 (some will become cap casualties as we expect Britt to do). But it's pretty easy to see that other teams have top heavy composition just as we would with a Clowney deal.

    What would be worse, is if we're paying non LT/DE/QB contracts in the top 5 overall. Or more to the point, not having LT/DE/QB players WORTH top 5 overall contracts. Seattle is kind of blessed to have the option to pay for quality at those three premium positions. Most teams don't have that option if they wanted it.

    Doing the rough math (or looking at how other teams are doing it), and it's pretty clear that we can pay him without a second thought.

    Wow, I hadn't even thought to look at Atlanta. So I guess we'll be second after Reed/Clowney? Probably 10million more than in third, and second only to an awful, old, overpriced team. A lot of those teams that will be somewhat close are dumpster fires that have committed suicide.


    Are you talking about the awful, old Falcons team that just beat the superbowl-contending saints? Or someone else?
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:31 pm
  • :vodka:
    John63 wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:We don't "really" have a ton of cap space, as we don't have a high number of players signed through next season. If we sign Clowney AND Reed, we'll be pretty strapped afterwards, but we can quite easily sign one of the two.


    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/9/14/20 ... owney-fant



    How dare you show facts. Sarcasm off.

    Everyone knows we will have planty of cap space.


    Did you read the highlights or all the way to the end? Let me know when you read the list of players hitting FA. Hint it is towards the end. We are ok. Not in plenty of cap space land after we are done resigning our own players
    mikeak
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:38 pm
  • One thing mentioned earlier is the smaller hit of dead cap $ for the 2020 cap.
    Falling off this year is Kam $10.2M, ADB $6.3M, Malik McDowell $1.6M and Mingo $1.1M as the biggest hits totaling about $19M
    Before draft picks, FA's ect we have roughly $70M plus.
    The Q will be which of our UFA's we want to keep.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:02 pm
  • What about J. Gordon ?
    Chawker
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:44 pm
  • Big players doesn't necessarily mean bid spenders.

    See 2013 when they were big players and got Avril and Bennett.

    Best believe if they lose Clowney in FA they will be very aggressive in signing a DE.

    I think they will be aggressive anyway if then can re-sign Clowney to get another pass rusher to pair with Clowney.
    Fade
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:00 am
  • The team will let Ansah walk and sign Clowney. He'll be in demand but the Hawks will consider him a priority unlike Clark. Reed won't command the money that Clowney does. He's not in Aaron Donald's league.
    Seafan
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:21 am
  • From the quotes we've been seeing and just for common sense, I have to believe we have the inside track to re-sign Clowney even without the leverage of the Tag.

    At least I hope so. Doesn't mean I'm counting on a "home town discount" or anything, but all other things being equal, I think we have an advantage.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:15 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:How do we keep Clowney ?

    My hope is that his comments about wanting to play in Seattle were from his heart, and he’ll be willing to negotiate a reasonable deal for both sides.

    I was stoked to get him, I’m fearful that we won’t be able to keep him.

    Hopefully last night (vs 9ers) showed everyone just what an impact player he can be.

    So, can we afford him?
    IMHO JC should be pretty high on the priority list.

    Clowney isn't going anywhere. Next year I'll say 16-20 mil a year. Ansah on the other hand, I don't know if he was signed on a one year deal or multi year. If anyone goes its probably him.
    hawks85
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:52 pm
  • Give it up, everyone. Tical is still butt hurt over us re-signing RW *at all*, let alone for close to what he is worth. This has turned into his temper tantrum thread. :roll: :roll:
    GeekHawk
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:54 pm
  • I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?
    Subzero717
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:02 pm
  • Subzero717 wrote:I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?


    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/
    HawkStrong
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:12 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?


    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/


    Thanks for the link :biggthumpup:



    I'm reminded of a previous defensive end who, to this day, probably isn't fully appreciated for all that he did. He was a part time role player with limited sacks that was signed to a contract that surprised a lot of fans. Chris Clemons was a truly well rounded defensive end. Every fan's eye fully sees and acknowledges the sack. But, not so much the pressures and hurries and fumbles caused that present opportunities for turnovers. The football staff on the other hand looks at all of it.

    I also recall a famous response failure to the question ...... which would you rather have a sack or an interception return for a score. Bruce Irvin moved to Oakland the very next year. Not every player or fan gets it.

    I'm confident our staff understands it and can present appropriate contract terms.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:06 am
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?


    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/


    His teamates arent getting sacks either. Add his injury history. I'll pass.
    Subzero717
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:11 am
  • Jville wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?


    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/


    Thanks for the link :biggthumpup:



    I'm reminded of a previous defensive end who, to this day, probably isn't fully appreciated for all that he did. He was a part time role player with limited sacks that was signed to a contract that surprised a lot of fans. Chris Clemons was a truly well rounded defensive end. Every fan's eye fully sees and acknowledges the sack. But, not so much the pressures and hurries and fumbles caused that present opportunities for turnovers. The football staff on the other hand looks at all of it.

    I also recall a famous response failure to the question ...... which would you rather have a sack or an interception return for a score. Bruce Irvin moved to Oakland the very next year. Not every player or fan gets it.

    I'm confident our staff understands it and can present appropriate contract terms.


    Im not really sure how youre comparing Clemons to Clowney. Not in the sense of financial commitment thats being thrown around.

    On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.
    Subzero717
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:02 am
  • Offer Clowney 10 year/$200 million, $50 mil SB, $75 mil guaranteed. It could be structured to include game bonuses, sack bonuses, win bonuses, etc and be relatively cap friendly.
    Seafan
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:22 am
  • When we get to the off-season we will have plenty of cap room either by what we have now, or what cuts we make at that time by JS and PC. I don't know why people are worried about this round now.

    Personally , I don't give a damn about anything to do with cap space or FA signings right now, but do care a lot about this season. We are in a race to not only get the division crown, but possibly a first round bye and even HFA for the playoffs. Why is this subject even being discussed right now?

    Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!
    kf3339
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:48 am
  • kf3339 wrote:When we get to the off-season we will have plenty of cap room either by what we have now, or what cuts we make at that time by JS and PC. I don't know why people are worried about this round now.

    Personally , I don't give a damn about anything to do with cap space or FA signings right now, but do care a lot about this season. We are in a race to not only get the division crown, but possibly a first round bye and even HFA for the playoffs. Why is this subject even being discussed right now?

    Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!

    I totally agree but you know this place..There are some who worry about next season
    even if were playing in the SB lol.
    There are others who can't stop harping on the past no matter what.
    You should know you are not going to convert any of them just saying.
    IndyHawk
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:04 am
  • KitsapGuy
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:41 am
  • Subzero717 wrote:On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.


    Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

    5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

    2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

    The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.
    HawkStrong
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:40 am
  • kf3339 wrote:When we get to the off-season we will have plenty of cap room either by what we have now, or what cuts we make at that time by JS and PC. I don't know why people are worried about this round now.


    Did you read this as worried? I read it as a question. More curiosity. But also a means to help understand how cap manipulation works or might look.

    kf3339 wrote:Personally , I don't give a damn about anything to do with cap space or FA signings right now, but do care a lot about this season. We are in a race to not only get the division crown, but possibly a first round bye and even HFA for the playoffs. Why is this subject even being discussed right now?


    I don't see how the subject line was some kind of trap. Seems pretty transparent.

    kf3339 wrote:Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!


    Well, I don't think that my/our focus really has any tangible impact on how the season plays out. There are hundreds of active posters on this board and their interests in the team fall all over the spectrum.

    As fans, it's pretty easy/painless to multi task and think about multiple aspects of the team. The ability to think about/follow how the cap works, how comp pick formula works re: UFAs and the 10th week, how cap strategy works and even follow/watch CFB closely to identify next year's draft prospects, doesn't detract from enjoying the season as it unfolds.

    We all have our pet peeves. My personal bugbear is 'list season'. Usually prefaced inseason as 'MVP threads'. I don't really care how those work out or go. But I find it's just easiest to not participate in them, rather than to try and poison the thread that other fans feel passionate about or enjoy.
    Attyla the Hawk
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:51 am
  • kf3339 wrote:
    Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!


    You know none of us are on the actual team right? We can totally talk about this season, AND next season's interesting topics, and it literally affects nothing.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:55 am
  • Clowney would be the cornerstone of the line. If Reed beasts for the last 6 games and the playoffs he may price himself out regardless of his suspension. I think it would be awesome to try and get Fowler to pair with Clowney.
    Think Bennett/Avril.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:36 am
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.


    Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

    5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

    2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

    The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.


    We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:38 am
  • Largent80 wrote:Clowney would be the cornerstone of the line. If Reed beasts for the last 6 games and the playoffs he may price himself out regardless of his suspension. I think it would be awesome to try and get Fowler to pair with Clowney.
    Think Bennett/Avril.


    So Clowney gets better when Reed comes back but we need to keep Clowney and Reed leaves? Hmmmm.
    Subzero717
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:48 am
  • Subzero717 wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?


    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/


    His teamates arent getting sacks either. Add his injury history. I'll pass.



    To keep elite talent in the NFL, you have to overspend. And when you do, there will come a day where the player isn’t worth that overpay. You’re paying based on past performances more than for the future.

    This is where the article defeats its own cause. Weve done this and its backfired. Also, he didnt do it here. This isnt Bobby where we chose to WAY overpay based on sentiment for what he has meant to us. Hes had an okay season with one monster game. We dont owe him thst and frankly thsts not how championships are won.


    Take a look at the highest-paid pass rushers in the NFL, and their actual production:

    • Khalil Mack: 6 years, $141 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
    • Aaron Donald: 6 years, $135 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
    • Von Miller: 6 years, $114.1 million (4 sacks through 9 games)
    • DeMarcus Lawrence: 5 years, $105 million (4.5 sacks through 9 games)
    • Frank Clark: 5 years, $104 million (4 sacks through 8 games)
    • Fletcher Cox: 6 years, $106.2 million (2.5 sacks through 9 games)
    • J.J. Watt: 6 years, $100 million (4 sacks through 8 games before a season-ending injury)
    • Trey Flowers: 5 years, $90 million (5 sacks through 9 games)
    • Dee Ford: 5 years, $85.5 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
    • Olivier Vernon: 5 years, $85 million (3 sacks through 8 games)


    Again he is proving how dumb his point is. Outside of maybe the top 3 guys how many office are providing that value? What happens when that guy gets hurt like Watt is?

    Im fine brining Clowney back but not st the numbers being thrown around in the 20 mill plus range.
    Subzero717
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:01 pm
  • Again, there is a LOT more to the position than the amount of sacks. If people only go by sacks, they're going to be complaining about Clowney his entire career. You pay for how disruptive the guy, and he's one of the most disruptive players in the entire league, period.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 pm
  • Subzero717 wrote:We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.


    Of course. But if you're going to rebuild, you have to start with some quality parts.

    There really isn't a lot of other defensive talent on the roster that will compete with his deal on the defensive side. And it's worth understanding, that Seattle may very well be better served by adding offensive players in the draft. Particularly at WR, where we seem to have a glut of talent today. This years' class is significantly better than 2014's. Seattle would be ideally suited to adding a potential replacement for Lockett from this group. There are maybe 6 Lockett type WRs in this class to choose from that all should have top 75 overall grades. It may seem far too early to be thinking this, but remember, Lockett's second contract expires in 27 months. Adding a WR this year gives him 2 seasons to develop, which is generally about how long a WR typically requires to acclimate to the NFL.

    Additionally, there are good RB prospects in this class. For certain, Penny hasn't panned out. Also Carson is about to go UFA. Signing RBs to second deals is a very sketchy proposition. Seattle should rightly be in the market for a day 2 prospect here.

    Also, it's possible that a quality OT drops to the latter part of this draft. We will be in the market for replacing Ifedi. Certainly if an OT happens to fall into their laps, they'll almost be obligated to select him. Should that happen, it's easily conceivable that Seattle goes offense 1-2-3 in their selections.

    Right now, the talent in the class appears aligned to strongly address the offense. It's a class where going defensive is swimming against the tide of available talent. And Seattle can't hope to continue to Penny/Maglik/Pocic their drafts and remain contenders. They need to start getting quality stars from the top of their drafts. So retention of defensive talent may align better with the associated draft outlook. Staying cheap on that side of the ball allows you to spend on the other. We're much more likely to get an approximate equivalent to what we currently enjoy via the draft on that side. Whereas we're more than likely to see an LJ Collier type talent on the defensive side or worse.

    Draft class strengths should influence UFA strategy. Particularly since the UFA period precedes the draft. So it's important to understand that Clowney's potential deal doesn't exist in a vacuum. On a team with available cap space, with significant needs both imminent and on the horizon, and the understanding that resigning your own UFAs don't factor in to potential comp picks with guys we are expecting to lose -- the total value of being the highest bidder for Clowney is greater for us than for most other teams.
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