Clowney vs Frank Clark

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Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:35 am
  • What I love about Clowney's game is the havoc he creates on a whole lot of plays and how he gets in the QB's and OL's heads so they always have to account for him in some abnormal way. I hate how sacks are this metric for D linemen because is so under represents their contribution. Sure Frank Clark got to the QB. but other than that he wasn't a big factor. How many of those sacks came on critical downs vs garbage time? You don't really know by just looking at sacks.

    Clowney's game is much more dynamic. Great run stopper and pursuer. Gets that big body in the QBs face. Played an unreal game last night but has been doing all of that stuff all year with literally ZERO help for the most part. JS saw a lot of this and that why Clark is in KC. Sorry JS but you are going to have to PAY Clowney. I hope your cap guy has a plan.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:54 am
  • There is no comparison for me, Clowney's a game wrecker..........down in an down out. When healthy Frank can definitely get after the QB, but that's really the extent of his effectiveness. Which isn't to be diminished, obviously pass rush is important.

    But if I'm the GM and handing out 20M+ to a DE? Clowney, all day, every day. He's a MUCH better all around player and as we saw last night in the run, pass, it didn't matter, he singlehandedly wrecked the Niners offense.

    I just hope Clowney likes it here in Seattle enough to give us first crack at signing him.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:57 am
  • Clowney LOVES him some Russell Wilson. I firmly believe he will be a Seahawk for the rest of his career.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:05 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:There is no comparison for me, Clowney's a game wrecker..........down in an down out. When healthy Frank can definitely get after the QB, but that's really the extent of his effectiveness. Which isn't to be diminished, obviously pass rush is important.

    But if I'm the GM and handing out 20M+ to a DE? Clowney, all day, every day. He's a MUCH better all around player and as we saw last night in the run, pass, it didn't matter, he singlehandedly wrecked the Niners offense.

    I just hope Clowney likes it here in Seattle enough to give us first crack at signing him.



    Clowney is potentially the second best DL Seattle has ever had. I love his game, but 20 million a year is a lot. With Jarran Reed finally showing up, he sure do shine like a superstar.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:05 am
  • ivotuk wrote:Clowney LOVES him some Russell Wilson. I firmly believe he will be a Seahawk for the rest of his career.

    You say that like it would be a good thing.

    Oh wait, it would!

    :twisted:
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:09 am
  • jeremiah wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:There is no comparison for me, Clowney's a game wrecker..........down in an down out. When healthy Frank can definitely get after the QB, but that's really the extent of his effectiveness. Which isn't to be diminished, obviously pass rush is important.

    But if I'm the GM and handing out 20M+ to a DE? Clowney, all day, every day. He's a MUCH better all around player and as we saw last night in the run, pass, it didn't matter, he singlehandedly wrecked the Niners offense.

    I just hope Clowney likes it here in Seattle enough to give us first crack at signing him.



    Clowney is potentially the second best DL Seattle has ever had. I love his game, but 20 million a year is a lot. With Jarran Reed finally showing up, he sure do shine like a superstar.


    20M is a lot, but as you saw last night, he'd be worth every penny, especially on this mediocre D-line that's desperate for playmakers.

    QB
    LT
    DE

    Those are your three most important positions on your team, so if you want to compete you've got to have quality in all three of those positions to win.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:20 am
  • I don't like to make comparisons, especially on this board where such things are typically based on one game.

    JC is a great player however and I think he's going to let it all hang out for the rest of the year and get himself a nice big fat contract.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:58 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jeremiah wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:There is no comparison for me, Clowney's a game wrecker..........down in an down out. When healthy Frank can definitely get after the QB, but that's really the extent of his effectiveness. Which isn't to be diminished, obviously pass rush is important.

    But if I'm the GM and handing out 20M+ to a DE? Clowney, all day, every day. He's a MUCH better all around player and as we saw last night in the run, pass, it didn't matter, he singlehandedly wrecked the Niners offense.

    I just hope Clowney likes it here in Seattle enough to give us first crack at signing him.



    Clowney is potentially the second best DL Seattle has ever had. I love his game, but 20 million a year is a lot. With Jarran Reed finally showing up, he sure do shine like a superstar.


    20M is a lot, but as you saw last night, he'd be worth every penny, especially on this mediocre D-line that's desperate for playmakers.

    QB
    LT
    DE

    Those are your three most important positions on your team, so if you want to compete you've got to have quality in all three of those positions to win.



    20 Million is a lot? Based on his season so far, I would sign him. IF he continues to improve those around him. He plays fine, but it is time for others to shine, which will form the basis of a great DL. Poona and others must now push the middle. IN THE FACE pressure, to drive them to Clowney.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:01 pm

Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:36 pm
  • Just curious, did they change Clowney's position up front?
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:50 pm
  • It was awesome to see how far he got into carapollios head. Dude looked scared. He pretty much shut down that Niners offense. I mean, a lot of great plays all over last night for sure but clowney singlehandedly wrecked that offense. Just threw off their whole plan.

    He looked like he did in college. That was phenomenal. He had a better game than Bosa and I NEVER saw that coming.

    Work noting Shaq had a fantastic game as well.

    Meanwhile Sherman was completely invisible and getting worked by our nobody receivers.

    Makes me smile just thinking about it.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:42 pm
  • I was never big on Clark, and didn’t flinch once we let him go. Clark padded his stats against bad teams. Clowney is far and away better, and I felt that way before last night.

    People think rushing the passer is just straight forward, but as Carroll said Clowney is starting to pick his spots in this scheme
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 pm
  • I love me some Frank Clark, dude did awesome for us when he was here, and did even more awesome for us with the draft picks we got when he left. Gave his all on every play I ever saw him in, solid teammate and leader.

    That said, Clowney is a massive upgrade over Clark. JS, just pay the man.

    IMO it's pointless to dog Clark for any stats or lesser impact he might have at KC. While in Seattle, Pete & Co. figured out how best to use Clark and take advantage of his skillset, while minimizing his flaws. I just think that KC hasn't quite figured out how best to use Clark just yet, and/or doesn't have the complementary players that set up Clark's best games. For instance, Jarran Reed. We saw last night how much a fully-fit Jarran Reed can elevate Clowney's impact. No doubt JReed helped improve Clark's status and impact also. I'll always root for Frank Clark to do great whether he's in KC or elsewhere.

    But Clowney... now that Carroll and Norton are starting to figure out how best to use him, and Clowney is understanding the defensive schemes... WOW. Makes all our DBs so much better.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:28 am
  • Loved Clark. Attitude. Growth. Production. Impact. He blossomed as a team leader at a time where the team invoked a leadership vacuum on the defensive side.

    Loved the Clowney move even when it was merely a possibility. Been pretty candid about his value the entire time.

    I feel we're fortunate to have been able to have Clowney fall into our laps given the circumstance. I don't think it's necessary to compare them or throw shade on Clark. He was every bit the quality player and leader that measured with his new contract. We were fortunate to have him. And ultimately, he gave us great value both while here and in his departure.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:40 am
  • I concur with the no need to throw shade on Clark sentiment. To me there are significant differences in Clowney's game and Clark's game. I really don't warm up to these comparison exercises about players who never actually compete one on one against each other.

    The good news is Clowney is receiving significant recognition this week.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:13 pm
  • Clowney proved he can take over the game. Clark never has shown he can do that. Plus Clowney has made those around him better. The guys like Jefferson, Ford, Jackson, and Green have all benefitted from Clowney. He's unstoppable 1on1 but is also a disruptive when he's taking on 2-3 blockers. Clark, Martin, and Mingo didn't offer any of that. Clark is a good player but Clowney is a special, one of kind athlete. Glad he's a Seahawk. He's a must re-sign.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:24 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:Clowney LOVES him some Russell Wilson. I firmly believe he will be a Seahawk for the rest of his career.

    Clowney isn't going anywhere. He has already stated is loves it here. Clowney will be getting paid next year. Thats a good thing. I'm thinking 16-20mil a year.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:29 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:It was awesome to see how far he got into carapollios head. Dude looked scared. He pretty much shut down that Niners offense. I mean, a lot of great plays all over last night for sure but clowney singlehandedly wrecked that offense. Just threw off their whole plan.

    He looked like he did in college. That was phenomenal. He had a better game than Bosa and I NEVER saw that coming.

    Work noting Shaq had a fantastic game as well.

    Meanwhile Sherman was completely invisible and getting worked by our nobody receivers.

    Makes me smile just thinking about it.

    I never liked Sherman. Yeah is good but overrated IMO. Dudes got a big mouth very big. I really think he benefited from Earl And Kam.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:21 pm
  • Before last week his stock was considerably lower than what it's at today. Also I fear that once he's paid his production could drop as the incentive of a contract year is now gone.

    Really good player but buyer beware for me.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 am
  • The reason why we care about getting good value out of cheap contracts in the first place is so that we can afford to pay the star players who are difference makers on the field.

    What would you rather spend the money on then a great DE? We can't keep everybody but we should keep the best. We get a ton of value out of cheap contracts as it is.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:43 am
  • hawks85 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:It was awesome to see how far he got into carapollios head. Dude looked scared. He pretty much shut down that Niners offense. I mean, a lot of great plays all over last night for sure but clowney singlehandedly wrecked that offense. Just threw off their whole plan.

    He looked like he did in college. That was phenomenal. He had a better game than Bosa and I NEVER saw that coming.

    Work noting Shaq had a fantastic game as well.

    Meanwhile Sherman was completely invisible and getting worked by our nobody receivers.

    Makes me smile just thinking about it.

    I never liked Sherman. Yeah is good but overrated IMO. Dudes got a big mouth very big. I really think he benefited from Earl And Kam.


    Sherman was incredible at his peak. They wouldn’t even throw his direction. I remember a game against GB where Rodgers didn’t throw his direction once. Sherman was a shutdown corner for a few years.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:51 am
  • Hollandhawk wrote:Sherman was incredible at his peak. They wouldn’t even throw his direction. I remember a game against GB where Rodgers didn’t throw his direction once. Sherman was a shutdown corner for a few years.


    Yup, I remember that game. Rodgers had 40+ attempts but none in Sherm's direction, then after the game, wouldn't admit that he was avoiding him. He was the best cornerback in the league for 3-4 years.

    Sherman changed in the last couple of years he was with us. He was a lot moodier, called out teammates, etc. Once he injured his Achilles, his antics became less tolerable so we cut bait. I agreed with the decision.

    To the OP, even though Clowney has fewer sacks than Clark had, he's a lot more disruptive than Clark ever was. If there's a defensive player within our grasp that we can afford to sign to a long term deal, it's Clowney. At 26, he's at the peak of his career and can be expected to maintain this level of play for another 3-4 years.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:28 pm
  • HawkerD wrote:Sure Frank Clark got to the QB. but other than that he wasn't a big factor. How many of those sacks came on critical downs vs garbage time? You don't really know by just looking at sacks.


    Actually I remember quite a few coming in crucial moments. He struck me as a Bruce Irvin plus - didn't have the pure numbers behind him, but had a habit of closing games here and there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, though.

    AgentDib wrote:What would you rather spend the money on then a great DE?


    This - combo of great player and cornerstone position. LB? WR? RB? Probably not. But defensive end? There's only one position MORE worth the money if he attains greatness, than defensive end. Gotta keep him.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:08 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    HawkerD wrote:Sure Frank Clark got to the QB. but other than that he wasn't a big factor. How many of those sacks came on critical downs vs garbage time? You don't really know by just looking at sacks.


    Actually I remember quite a few coming in crucial moments. He struck me as a Bruce Irvin plus - didn't have the pure numbers behind him, but had a habit of closing games here and there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, though.

    AgentDib wrote:What would you rather spend the money on then a great DE?


    This - combo of great player and cornerstone position. LB? WR? RB? Probably not. But defensive end? There's only one position MORE worth the money if he attains greatness, than defensive end. Gotta keep him.


    Didn't Frank get a big percentage of his sacks and pressures in the Oakland game? Like a 3-4 sack game? He was a solid player but not worth the money someone like Clowney gets which is what the Chiefs gave him. He's actually been a negative for them this year when he cost a lot to get.

    Clowney is all around a superstar, 26 years old, and has accounted for something like 40% of the pressures this year. You throw big money at a guy like him who is definitely revived playing in Seattle.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:16 am
  • Clowney is the more disruptive pass rusher and a better all around player. Frank is a better pure pass rusher.

    I mentioned this when the trade was made, Frank is not worth more than 16M/year. Clowney, on the other hand, can give you 95% of what Khalil Mack gives you, so he is probably worth 20M+/year.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 am
  • Clooney only hits guys in uniform, so, that's an upgrade.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:01 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:I was never big on Clark, and didn’t flinch once we let him go. Clark padded his stats against bad teams. Clowney is far and away better, and I felt that way before last night.

    People think rushing the passer is just straight forward, but as Carroll said Clowney is starting to pick his spots in this scheme

    Why the hate on Clark he was a great Seahawk played hard and produced. Prior to the 49er game I was not sure if Clowney was better, however I never saw Clark dominate like that. More strong performances will get Clowney paid more than the $20,800,000.00 that Clark deservedly received. Remember the Hawks chose to trade Clark he wanted to stay. To my knowledge he has not spoken ill of the team.
    Last edited by tersal on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:30 pm
  • Typical .NET overreaction posts based on one game.

    JC is a very good player but it seems only a couple of games ago everyone was ragging on him.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:34 am
  • JC's impact has been very noticable even before the 49er game. Since the majority only like results that lead to numbers, here's some numbers.

    Passer rating while on the field: 80.3
    Passer rating while off the field: 110.1

    Pressure rate while on the field: 26%
    Pressure rate while off the field: 16.9%

    Completion % while on the field: 61.1%
    Completion % while off the field: 70.9%

    INT while on the field: 7
    INT while off the field: 1

    Link
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:25 am
  • JGreen79 wrote:JC's impact has been very noticable even before the 49er game. Since the majority only like results that lead to numbers, here's some numbers.

    Passer rating while on the field: 80.3
    Passer rating while off the field: 110.1

    Pressure rate while on the field: 26%
    Pressure rate while off the field: 16.9%

    Completion % while on the field: 61.1%
    Completion % while off the field: 70.9%

    INT while on the field: 7
    INT while off the field: 1

    Link



    Quality $h!t right here! :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am
  • Well, we should be very happy we have Clowney. And I'm sure the Chiefs are happy to have Clark. Even though he isn't worth that contract imo. Wouldn't have been worth it here either.
    No real need to dwell on former players.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:59 pm
  • Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:47 pm
  • Subzero717 wrote:Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.


    I disagree. With the current rules, DB's can no longer dominate receivers like they used to. The era of "shutdown corners" is gone. You win the passing game battle by getting to the QB and forcing bad throws. Penetrating DT's and great rushing DE/OLB are the cornerstones to passing defense.

    I'd pay my DL second most after QB.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:54 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, we should be very happy we have Clowney. And I'm sure the Chiefs are happy to have Clark. Even though he isn't worth that contract imo. Wouldn't have been worth it here either.
    No real need to dwell on former players.


    Clark has been mediocre at best this season for the money hes being paid. hes been playing hurt though
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

    The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:38 pm
  • I need to see how the rest of the year plays out.

    A) If he continues to play somewhat like, but not quite like he played against SF, then I would evaluate him at $22.5M APY on the open market.

    B) If he explodes and goes on an absolute tear, and he rips it up in the playoffs, then the price is going to go up to $25M APY on the open market.

    C) If he goes somewhat quiet, and finishes the year with 7 sacks, and doesn't have a great playoffs, then the price will be $18M-$20M APY on the open market.

    D) If he gets injured, then he is signing a prove it contract with incentives, ranging from $14M-20M dollars on the open market.

    Forecasting with the information we have now. I would say "A" is most likely.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:58 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.


    I disagree. With the current rules, DB's can no longer dominate receivers like they used to. The era of "shutdown corners" is gone. You win the passing game battle by getting to the QB and forcing bad throws. Penetrating DT's and great rushing DE/OLB are the cornerstones to passing defense.

    I'd pay my DL second most after QB.


    Then you wouldnt be paying JC.

    The two work in tandom but without coverage...

    New England for example lets "edge rushers" walk before paying them insane money. They choose to pay their DBs. At our most succesful run we had three DBs msking the top of theur position $s. You can create pass rush through draft, blitz, cap casualty vets.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 am
  • knownone wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

    The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.


    I got to the second paragraph and saw enough. He is spot on. A sack is tangible. Its a negative play.

    There is no way to measure the affect of a hurry or a pressure. Quite frankly its a participation ribbon. Good QBs eat pressure. Elite QBs never feel it.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:35 am
  • Subzero717 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

    The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.


    I got to the second paragraph and saw enough. He is spot on. A sack is tangible. Its a negative play.

    There is no way to measure the affect of a hurry or a pressure. Quite frankly its a participation ribbon. Good QBs eat pressure. Elite QBs never feel it.


    I hope many GM's feel as you guys do, and that helps keep the hype for Clowney down in the off season so we can sign him to a moderate long term deal.

    It's why Houston chose Watt over Clowney, some don't see the value in disruption and pressure, and only with tangible metrics.

    IMO that's shortsighted, and anyone who's watched our games this year can plainly see that Clowney's a game wrecker week in and week out, and I have NO problem paying him 20M a year.......especially since we've literally got no other elite DE's.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:42 am
  • People are WAY too fascinated with stats. Like many players around the league, stats do zero justice to how good Clowney is. He's flat out disruptive and teams have to double him every game. So he doesn't get a bunch of sacks, big deal.
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:44 am
  • I think that most fans tend to work with 5 year old cap numbers in their heads. Contract inflation seems to run faster than most fans' opinion of what is "too much."

    And as usual, hardly anybody is worried about Russ's "biggest contract in NFL history" any more. :twisted:
    sutz
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:24 am
  • VERY good point. Today's massive contract is a bargain or average in a couple years.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:34 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

    The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.


    I got to the second paragraph and saw enough. He is spot on. A sack is tangible. Its a negative play.

    There is no way to measure the affect of a hurry or a pressure. Quite frankly its a participation ribbon. Good QBs eat pressure. Elite QBs never feel it.


    I hope many GM's feel as you guys do, and that helps keep the hype for Clowney down in the off season so we can sign him to a moderate long term deal.

    It's why Houston chose Watt over Clowney, some don't see the value in disruption and pressure, and only with tangible metrics.

    IMO that's shortsighted, and anyone who's watched our games this year can plainly see that Clowney's a game wrecker week in and week out, and I have NO problem paying him 20M a year.......especially since we've literally got no other elite DE's.



    Having no other options is a huge issue and I have been extremely critical of Schneider because of it.

    That said I still cant reconcile handing a guy with that injury history and other questions that amount of money.

    I also think it ammusing/not a coincidence that the masses have turned to "we need Clowney resigned now" after what many have said was the best game of his career. I at keast never saw any of this after the Atl game. Baltimore? New Orleans?
    Subzero717
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 am
  • I think those games you mentioned he was double teamed the entire way and nobody else took up the slack. Last week he got Jefferson back and Reed found his mojo. Clowney is #1 in the league being double teamed yet is still disruptive and that's rare.
    Largent80
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 am
  • Subzero717 wrote:
    That said I still cant reconcile handing a guy with that injury history and other questions that amount of money.


    Clowney hasn't been hurt since what, 2014? 2015?

    Tell you what, he's been a hell of a lot more durable than Watt, so IMO the Texans kept the wrong dude. Watt's broken.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:54 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:
    That said I still cant reconcile handing a guy with that injury history and other questions that amount of money.


    Clowney hasn't been hurt since what, 2014? 2015?

    Tell you what, he's been a hell of a lot more durable than Watt, so IMO the Texans kept the wrong dude. Watt's broken.


    I dont disagree with that.

    Clowney had played 16 games once in his career.

    My point is paying one guy on the defense spefically on the line is a mistake. Im not anti Clowney. Im anti a huge chuck of cap to one guy. Look at the top paid guys. Most arent are providing a huge impact in terms of win/loss. A lot arent in their original team.
    Subzero717
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:01 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:People are WAY too fascinated with stats. Like many players around the league, stats do zero justice to how good Clowney is. He's flat out disruptive and teams have to double him every game. So he doesn't get a bunch of sacks, big deal.

    Sacks are actually a VERY big deal. They typically end drives. A silent game with two sacks can often be more impactful than a very active game with none. You can cause incompletions and make plays in the run game, and the offense can overcome those. But it is more difficult to overcome sacks. Now, if we get the 49ers Clowney often, forgettaboutit, but if we get the guy that is on pace for 5 sacks, effort disappears often,etc, i'd rather have a guy that gets double-digit sacks, even if they are less impressive in other facets.
    Tical21
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:06 pm
  • Subzero717 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:
    That said I still cant reconcile handing a guy with that injury history and other questions that amount of money.


    Clowney hasn't been hurt since what, 2014? 2015?

    Tell you what, he's been a hell of a lot more durable than Watt, so IMO the Texans kept the wrong dude. Watt's broken.


    I dont disagree with that.

    Clowney had played 16 games once in his career.

    My point is paying one guy on the defense spefically on the line is a mistake. Im not anti Clowney. Im anti a huge chuck of cap to one guy. Look at the top paid guys. Most arent are providing a huge impact in terms of win/loss. A lot arent in their original team.


    I'd agree with you if this was last year and we were talking about a edge rusher only like Clark.

    But IMO Clowney's one of the best 4-5 all around DE's in the league, a three down effective disruptor in both pass and run.......and those guys are hard to find.

    Now if he and his agent get crazy and demand 25M? Then I'm out. But if he's willing to sign a 3-4 year deal around 20M? That's fine with me. We've got the cap space, and he's worth it IMO.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Clowney vs Frank Clark
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:27 pm
  • He changes the game with his disruptive play, and being doubled all the time. He creates sacks for OTHER players. It happened a couple times in the Niners game. So, someone else got the sack, oh well, Clowney forcing pretty boy to pull the ball back gave a sack to his teammate. A sack is a sack regardless where it comes from. Sometimes you get one, sometimes you create one. I don't see effort vanishing, that guy plays hard.
    SoulfishHawk
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