We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off

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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:57 pm
  • cymatica wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    I get your sarcasm that they aren’t the best, but trust me, I’ll take their word over a fan on a Seahawk forum.



    So you agree with the call that Wilson was down on that sack where he never stopped moving forward, when they whistled it dead seconds after he escaped? How about the no call on him getting hit when sliding?


    Yeah I agree those were awful calls. But I’m not going to act like the only bad plays went against us. Go to the Niners board, they have plenty of calls they are complaining about too. Refs just suck, they don’t call it one sided on purpose. I think some Seahawk fans honestly think that refs call games against us.


    That wasn't the point. You stated the officials know more than the guy on his couch. Well there are plenty of guys on the couch and in the stadium that see how bad some of these calls are, frequently the officials throw a flag because they think a penalty had to have happened when it didn't. I don't think any guy on the couch would have whistled Wilson down on that fake sack and almost everyone would have called a foul when 3 guys hit him on a slide. The reviews in New York have made some mistakes as well, overturning calls with insufficient evidence or vis versa.

    People on here generally don't act like they know more about the rulebook, they just recognize how bad the games are officiated and like to vent because it happens almost every game.

    And ^ another guy that gets it ^ :vodka:
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:12 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    cymatica wrote:

    So you agree with the call that Wilson was down on that sack where he never stopped moving forward, when they whistled it dead seconds after he escaped? How about the no call on him getting hit when sliding?


    Yeah I agree those were awful calls. But I’m not going to act like the only bad plays went against us. Go to the Niners board, they have plenty of calls they are complaining about too. Refs just suck, they don’t call it one sided on purpose. I think some Seahawk fans honestly think that refs call games against us.


    That wasn't the point. You stated the officials know more than the guy on his couch. Well there are plenty of guys on the couch and in the stadium that see how bad some of these calls are, frequently the officials throw a flag because they think a penalty had to have happened when it didn't. I don't think any guy on the couch would have whistled Wilson down on that fake sack and almost everyone would have called a foul when 3 guys hit him on a slide. The reviews in New York have made some mistakes as well, overturning calls with insufficient evidence or vis versa.

    People on here generally don't act like they know more about the rulebook, they just recognize how bad the games are officiated and like to vent because it happens almost every game.

    And ^ another guy that gets it ^ :vodka:



    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:30 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    Yeah I agree those were awful calls. But I’m not going to act like the only bad plays went against us. Go to the Niners board, they have plenty of calls they are complaining about too. Refs just suck, they don’t call it one sided on purpose. I think some Seahawk fans honestly think that refs call games against us.


    That wasn't the point. You stated the officials know more than the guy on his couch. Well there are plenty of guys on the couch and in the stadium that see how bad some of these calls are, frequently the officials throw a flag because they think a penalty had to have happened when it didn't. I don't think any guy on the couch would have whistled Wilson down on that fake sack and almost everyone would have called a foul when 3 guys hit him on a slide. The reviews in New York have made some mistakes as well, overturning calls with insufficient evidence or vis versa.

    People on here generally don't act like they know more about the rulebook, they just recognize how bad the games are officiated and like to vent because it happens almost every game.

    And ^ another guy that gets it ^ :vodka:



    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:51 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    That wasn't the point. You stated the officials know more than the guy on his couch. Well there are plenty of guys on the couch and in the stadium that see how bad some of these calls are, frequently the officials throw a flag because they think a penalty had to have happened when it didn't. I don't think any guy on the couch would have whistled Wilson down on that fake sack and almost everyone would have called a foul when 3 guys hit him on a slide. The reviews in New York have made some mistakes as well, overturning calls with insufficient evidence or vis versa.

    People on here generally don't act like they know more about the rulebook, they just recognize how bad the games are officiated and like to vent because it happens almost every game.

    And ^ another guy that gets it ^ :vodka:



    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:56 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote: And ^ another guy that gets it ^ :vodka:



    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:02 pm
  • Anybody know what was the ballboy's problem. During the play, it was called a 1st down and down at the 2 for the SEahawks. He wouldn't give the ball to the refs delaying the next play.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/FykXrls?nid=885666211
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:44 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.


    By the NFL rulebook, a fumble is defined as: "A fumble is any act, other than a pass or kick, which results in a loss of player possession."

    Possession is defined as: "A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds."

    No where in the rules does it state merely having contact with the ball maintains possession. We can see in the video replay and still image that DK does not maintain a firm grip on the ball.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:45 pm
  • rcaido wrote:Anybody know what was the ballboy's problem. During the play, it was called a 1st down and down at the 2 for the SEahawks. He wouldn't give the ball to the refs delaying the next play.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/FykXrls?nid=885666211


    He might have the K balls? Also could have been due to the confusion as to which team has possession? Each team uses their own set of balls.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:08 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Anybody know what was the ballboy's problem. During the play, it was called a 1st down and down at the 2 for the SEahawks. He wouldn't give the ball to the refs delaying the next play.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/FykXrls?nid=885666211


    He might have the K balls? Also could have been due to the confusion as to which team has possession? Each team uses their own set of balls.


    I just dont understand how a ballboy would deny two refs screaming for the football. It was just odd. Can you imagine if it was only a few second left of play and the offense was trying to hurry up.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:00 pm
  • rcaido wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Anybody know what was the ballboy's problem. During the play, it was called a 1st down and down at the 2 for the SEahawks. He wouldn't give the ball to the refs delaying the next play.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/FykXrls?nid=885666211


    He might have the K balls? Also could have been due to the confusion as to which team has possession? Each team uses their own set of balls.


    I just dont understand how a ballboy would deny two refs screaming for the football. It was just odd. Can you imagine if it was only a few second left of play and the offense was trying to hurry up.



    That is SF's sideline, there was obviously confusion as to who had possession at that point. Ref was signalling the runner was down, so ball boy probably realized he shouldn't give him the ball until it was signalled SF ball. Just a guess, no way to know from the video.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:16 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.



    No response?
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:51 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Notice you had no response to the picture that was posted clearly showing DK lost possession.

    Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.


    What color is the sky in your world?
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:23 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote: Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.



    No response?

    I was ready to just let you blather, but, it's obvious that you can't just leave $h!t alone, & I don't do well with 'Cocky. It's entirely possible to lose grasp on the ball, and re establish JUST AS DK DID, and because neither player was down, the ball was still live...….There's an old phrase you should learn...."Till Hell Freezes Over"
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:26 pm
  • Hockey Guy wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote: Only thing I notice, is that you're still not paying attention, HE NEVER LOST CONTACT WITH THE BALL!!! LOOK at your photo...DO YOU NOT SEE where DK STILL HAS CONTACT with his forearm, then gets his hand back on the ball BEFORE going across the GOAL LINE?????
    There was an ASSUMPTION by the Refs that because Tartt had two hands on the ball, that Metcalf had lost contact.



    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.


    What color is the sky in your world?

    Are you HawkStrong's Lap Dog? :lol:
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:35 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Please state in the rules where it says contact with the forearm denotes possession. Similar to the out of bounds player, you are arguing points that have no basis in reality.

    I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.



    No response?

    I was ready to just let you blather, but, it's obvious that you can't just leave $h!t alone, & I don't do well with 'Cocky. It's entirely possible to lose grasp on the ball, and re establish JUST AS DK DID, and because neither player was down, the ball was still live...….There's an old phrase you should learn...."Till Hell Freezes Over"


    I take it you've just been trolling because there's no way this could be a serious response.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:23 pm
  • No I think the thread should remain open here, there is a fair discussion ongoing here and the rules issue and lame refereeing is in fact Seahawks related b/c the Hawks are penalized a lot for subjective rule interpretations.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm
  • Hockey Guy wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:I'll ask you to post from the rules book that "denotes" otherwise, if you can show me this, I'll concede.



    No response?

    I was ready to just let you blather, but, it's obvious that you can't just leave $h!t alone, & I don't do well with 'Cocky. It's entirely possible to lose grasp on the ball, and re establish JUST AS DK DID, and because neither player was down, the ball was still live...….There's an old phrase you should learn...."Till Hell Freezes Over"


    I take it you've just been trolling because there's no way this could be a serious response.

    It's too late for either you or Hawkstrong to apologize, though I've been known to accept bribes.
    Look, if you don't like my opinion on this matter, you & HawkStrong are welcome to stick with your own.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:11 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    No response?

    I was ready to just let you blather, but, it's obvious that you can't just leave $h!t alone, & I don't do well with 'Cocky. It's entirely possible to lose grasp on the ball, and re establish JUST AS DK DID, and because neither player was down, the ball was still live...….There's an old phrase you should learn...."Till Hell Freezes Over"


    I take it you've just been trolling because there's no way this could be a serious response.

    It's too late for either you or Hawkstrong to apologize, though I've been known to accept bribes.
    Look, if you don't like my opinion on this matter, you & HawkStrong are welcome to stick with your own.


    I am sticking with the facts. You are sticking with an opinion not based in reality. Cheers.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:18 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote: I was ready to just let you blather, but, it's obvious that you can't just leave $h!t alone, & I don't do well with 'Cocky. It's entirely possible to lose grasp on the ball, and re establish JUST AS DK DID, and because neither player was down, the ball was still live...….There's an old phrase you should learn...."Till Hell Freezes Over"


    I take it you've just been trolling because there's no way this could be a serious response.

    It's too late for either you or Hawkstrong to apologize, though I've been known to accept bribes.
    Look, if you don't like my opinion on this matter, you & HawkStrong are welcome to stick with your own.


    I am sticking with the facts. You are sticking with an opinion not based in reality. Cheers.

    There were SEVERAL calls that were wrong >FACTUALLY<...I've seen Bang-Bang plays, where the calls went CONTRARY to the NFL Rules, and games lost because of interpretational error, and so have you.
    "FACT" -- > That play in particular (open to interpretation), could have also gone the other way.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:59 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:
    I take it you've just been trolling because there's no way this could be a serious response.

    It's too late for either you or Hawkstrong to apologize, though I've been known to accept bribes.
    Look, if you don't like my opinion on this matter, you & HawkStrong are welcome to stick with your own.


    I am sticking with the facts. You are sticking with an opinion not based in reality. Cheers.

    There were SEVERAL calls that were wrong >FACTUALLY<...I've seen Bang-Bang plays, where the calls went CONTRARY to the NFL Rules, and games lost because of interpretational error, and so have you.
    "FACT" -- > That play in particular (open to interpretation), could have also gone the other way.



    I don't disagree with what you are saying in principle. We have more than enough evidence to see this was ruled correctly, even though you don't like it. If the teams were reversed, I am sure you would it that way.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:42 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:SF is an NFL darling team. If they're having a good year they will get most calls. Makes the win even sweeter.


    Seahawks were definitely the darling team a few years back.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:24 pm
  • NINEster wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:SF is an NFL darling team. If they're having a good year they will get most calls. Makes the win even sweeter.


    Seahawks were definitely the darling team a few years back.


    Coward.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:05 pm
  • NINEster wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:SF is an NFL darling team. If they're having a good year they will get most calls. Makes the win even sweeter.


    Seahawks were definitely the darling team a few years back.


    They were, but hey, they got there the old fashioned way, "They Earned It".
    Teams with multiple SB wins are always going to be the beneficiaries of favoritism; Not to say that they didn't play good enough to earn the respect and admiration of their fans & the money media.
    What's not being taken into account, is that back in the 49rs HAYDAYS, when money was no object, team OWNERS with deep pockets could (and did) hire the best HEAD COACHES, sub Coaches, Scouts, AND PLAYERS, but NOW, Y'all got to admit that it galls ya just a little, that since the Seattle Seahawks were moved into the NFC WEST, the 9rs, & the like, are no longer able to run the unopposed table.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:12 pm
  • NINEster wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:SF is an NFL darling team. If they're having a good year they will get most calls. Makes the win even sweeter.


    Seahawks were definitely the darling team a few years back.


    Not really. The media was forced to respect them, and that quickly evaporated, they desperately wanted to make 49ers or Rams their darling team.

    It's funny, Caroll was hired, no one gave him a chance being a college coach. Then Harbaugh was hired, immediately they were gushing over him. Bruce Arians was supposed to make Arizona a contender again. Kaepernick was the new Rodgers while Wilson was snubbed. Last couple years Seattle was predicted to miss the playoffs and only get 4 wins by some. It took at least a year or 2 after Seattle was getting good around 2012 for the media to jump on the badwagon , everyone thought Denver would blow out Seattle, took a stomping to force the issue.

    Seattle was never a darling team, media "analysts" were forced to respect them in order not to look foolish, as soon as a little adversity hit, many jumped off the hype train predicting disaster.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:10 pm
  • I’m sorry but you don’t know football if you think having contact means no fumble. What if you are holding the ball, it gets knocked out of your hand and trickles down your body to your foot. The ball is always in contact even though it is at his feet now. That is a fumble. DK clearly lost the ball even though he was touching it.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:50 pm
  • Id think contact and control are very different things..
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:56 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Id think contact and control are very different things..

    Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?, and that goes for both Metcalf AND Tartt.
    Last edited by scutterhawk on Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:06 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Id think contact and control are very different things..

    Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:10 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Id think contact and control are very different things..

    Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:
    scutterhawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:13 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Id think contact and control are very different things..

    Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:



    Yep that's what I said LMAO.

    Look that would crazy if I believed 're-establish' wasn't in the rule book. Just like I would be crazy to believe you can control a football with your forearm, or that literally quoting the rulebook someone would convince them they are wrong. Just crazy crazy stuff.
    HawkStrong
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:25 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:



    Yep that's what I said LMAO.

    Look that would crazy if I believed 're-establish' wasn't in the rule book. Just like I would be crazy to believe you can control a football with your forearm, or that literally quoting the rulebook someone would convince them they are wrong. Just crazy crazy stuff.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, Metcalf DID "RE-ESTABLISH" CONTROL BEFORE GOING OVER THE GOAL LINE....PERIOD!
    scutterhawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:26 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Id think contact and control are very different things..

    Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:

    No, it's his contention that the play was called correctly on the field. You're creating a straw-man argument, which is a logical fallacy. This can be considered as an attempt to belittle, which makes the person you are discussing something with less likely to respond top you in a positive way. This eventually leads to negative feelings between posters, inhibits discussion, and increases forum toxicity, so should be avoided if your intent is to have a reasoned discussion on a topic.
    KiwiHawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:32 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:



    Yep that's what I said LMAO.

    Look that would crazy if I believed 're-establish' wasn't in the rule book. Just like I would be crazy to believe you can control a football with your forearm, or that literally quoting the rulebook someone would convince them they are wrong. Just crazy crazy stuff.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, Metcalf DID "RE-ESTABLISH" CONTROL BEFORE GOING OVER THE GOAL LINE....PERIOD!

    From what I've seen in the various angles, you are correct. DK did grasp the ball again after letting it go. However, the problem is that he let it go in the first place. The process of losing control means that the defender had sole possession of the ball making it a fumble and recovery by the defense. Then when DK re-establishes his grip on the ball he is the "defender" at that point, because the ball was fumbled and possessed by the opposing team. So simultaneous possession would now be granted to SF, not Seattle.
    DJrmb
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:36 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:



    Yep that's what I said LMAO.

    Look that would crazy if I believed 're-establish' wasn't in the rule book. Just like I would be crazy to believe you can control a football with your forearm, or that literally quoting the rulebook someone would convince them they are wrong. Just crazy crazy stuff.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, Metcalf DID "RE-ESTABLISH" CONTROL BEFORE GOING OVER THE GOAL LINE....PERIOD!


    No he didn't, because at that point someone else had control. Two people can't have control of the football at the same time, outside of a dual possession catch. Which honestly, it seems like you think that possession on a running play is subject to the same rules as possession on a passing play, which it isn't. I really suggest you read the rulebook, it would clear up a lot of your misconceptions.

    Edit: two excellent posts above mine, read them. Listen to reason instead of your emotion.
    HawkStrong
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:40 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Maybe so, but the point still remains, it was just as legitimate as REESTABLISHING CONTROL, EVEN WITH ONE HAND, BEFORE reaching across the FREAKING GOAL LINE, as the ball hit the ground in the end zone, it came loose from the grip of BOTH PLAYERS.
    Everyone seems to be okay with a player STEPPING OUT OF BOUNDS, just so long as he's making a play on the ball.
    If so, then why even have the " A Player Must Reestablish" in the Rule book?



    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:

    No, it's his contention that the play was called correctly on the field. You're creating a straw-man argument, which is a logical fallacy. This can be considered as an attempt to belittle, which makes the person you are discussing something with less likely to respond top you in a positive way. This eventually leads to negative feelings between posters, inhibits discussion, and increases forum toxicity, so should be avoided if your intent is to have a reasoned discussion on a topic.

    Look, even though Tartt (after going out of bounds) got ahold of the ball, Metcalf ALSO regained (re-established) a hold on the ball as it crossed the Goal line did he not?
    As far as the "Belittle" gig?, that's a two way street.
    scutterhawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:59 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:

    No, it's his contention that the play was called correctly on the field. You're creating a straw-man argument, which is a logical fallacy. This can be considered as an attempt to belittle, which makes the person you are discussing something with less likely to respond top you in a positive way. This eventually leads to negative feelings between posters, inhibits discussion, and increases forum toxicity, so should be avoided if your intent is to have a reasoned discussion on a topic.

    Look, even though Tartt (after going out of bounds) got ahold of the ball, Metcalf ALSO regained (re-established) a hold on the ball as it crossed the Goal line did he not?
    As far as the "Belittle" gig?, that's a two way street.


    Why does that matter? It wasn't illegal for Tartt to be out of bounds. Once Metcalf loses possession, and the defender gains possession, it doesn't matter what DK did or didn't do.
    HawkStrong
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:00 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:

    Again, please quote the rulebook on any pertinent rule that would backup literally any of your claims. You won't because you can't, and you can't because you are incorrect. But feel free to capitalize a few more random words, you just might convince someone that way.

    You have been proven wrong with textual evidence, video evidence, and still image evidence. You are free to have your opinion, it's just a bad one.

    So, it's your contention, that the word "Reestablish" isn't in the Rules book? LOL okay :34853_doh:

    No, it's his contention that the play was called correctly on the field. You're creating a straw-man argument, which is a logical fallacy. This can be considered as an attempt to belittle, which makes the person you are discussing something with less likely to respond top you in a positive way. This eventually leads to negative feelings between posters, inhibits discussion, and increases forum toxicity, so should be avoided if your intent is to have a reasoned discussion on a topic.

    Look, even though Tartt (after going out of bounds) got ahold of the ball, Metcalf ALSO regained (re-established) a hold on the ball as it crossed the Goal line did he not?

    No, because Tartt never lost control of the ball after gaining control of it. Once Tartt gained control, he had possession, so the possession rules apply to him - he has to lose it for someone else to get it.
    scutterhawk wrote:As far as the "Belittle" gig?, that's a two way street.

    And all I am saying is if you want a discussion instead of making the other person want to avoid you, don't use logical fallacies because they don't further discussion; they just piss people off. I never claimed he was being an angel, but if this discussion didn't de-escalate, the mods would shut it down, which is no good for anyone.
    KiwiHawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:18 pm
  • Also, while DK re-grasps the ball, that does not constitute "re-establishing possession". This is because there wasn't time to make a "football move" which is the third part of establishing possession (control, in bounds, and time to make a football move or act). Being that DK grasps it again a split second before it goes over the goal-line and is in the act of falling to the ground, I don't think you could say he made a football move after grasping it, meaning he technically didn't re-establish possession.
    DJrmb
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:27 pm
  • Hockey Guy wrote:The call that bothered me the most, for some reason, was the penalty for helmet to helmet on Garoppolo after Clowney blew up the play. Even Booger was like WTF was he supposed to do when JimmyG starts going down, then doesn't, putting his head right in the contact zone at the very last possible second.

    Yeah this one really pissed me off. This call is a perfect example of a situation where if a sky judge were in play, he should overrule the call. After the sky judge buzzed down, the referee would announce, "the sky judge has ruled that the QB (or ball carrier) ducked into the hit from the defensive player who was in proper strike zone tackling position therefore there is no foul on the play".
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:02 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:The call that bothered me the most, for some reason, was the penalty for helmet to helmet on Garoppolo after Clowney blew up the play. Even Booger was like WTF was he supposed to do when JimmyG starts going down, then doesn't, putting his head right in the contact zone at the very last possible second.

    Yeah this one really pissed me off. This call is a perfect example of a situation where if a sky judge were in play, he should overrule the call. After the sky judge buzzed down, the referee would announce, "the sky judge has ruled that the QB (or ball carrier) ducked into the hit from the defensive player who was in proper strike zone tackling position therefore there is no foul on the play".



    Pretty much every subjective penalty should be like this. Games might be a little longer, but it would get rid of so much BS.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:03 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:The call that bothered me the most, for some reason, was the penalty for helmet to helmet on Garoppolo after Clowney blew up the play. Even Booger was like WTF was he supposed to do when JimmyG starts going down, then doesn't, putting his head right in the contact zone at the very last possible second.

    Yeah this one really pissed me off. This call is a perfect example of a situation where if a sky judge were in play, he should overrule the call. After the sky judge buzzed down, the referee would announce, "the sky judge has ruled that the QB (or ball carrier) ducked into the hit from the defensive player who was in proper strike zone tackling position therefore there is no foul on the play".



    Pretty much every subjective penalty should be like this. Games might be a little longer, but it would get rid of so much BS.

    STRONG!!!!, It's not just THAT PLAY, there is no CONSISTENCY on calls/non calls from the Officiating across the entire board.
    It clouds the issue on ALL the crap calls, FOR INSTANCE, the ref's call on Golden Tate's TD against GB a few years back, that set the tone for my argument on DK's behalf in this game....I think Djmb's explanation of the play that I'm hung up on, makes a lot more sense than, Just accept what I'm telling you does...I don't handle smart ass responses well.
    scutterhawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:51 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:The call that bothered me the most, for some reason, was the penalty for helmet to helmet on Garoppolo after Clowney blew up the play. Even Booger was like WTF was he supposed to do when JimmyG starts going down, then doesn't, putting his head right in the contact zone at the very last possible second.

    Yeah this one really pissed me off. This call is a perfect example of a situation where if a sky judge were in play, he should overrule the call. After the sky judge buzzed down, the referee would announce, "the sky judge has ruled that the QB (or ball carrier) ducked into the hit from the defensive player who was in proper strike zone tackling position therefore there is no foul on the play".



    Pretty much every subjective penalty should be like this. Games might be a little longer, but it would get rid of so much BS.

    STRONG!!!!, It's not just THAT PLAY, there is no CONSISTENCY on calls/non calls from the Officiating across the entire board.
    It clouds the issue on ALL the crap calls, FOR INSTANCE, the ref's call on Golden Tate's TD against GB a few years back, that set the tone for my argument on DK's behalf in this game....I think Djmb's explanation of the play that I'm hung up on, makes a lot more sense than, Just accept what I'm telling you does...I don't handle smart ass responses well.



    I don't disagree with your first sentence, not sure where you think I disagreed with that idea.

    I knew you were conflating the two plays from the beginning, hence why I said you are confusing the rules between a congested catch and a fumble on a running play. Two completely different situations.

    As for Djmb's explanation helping you to understand it, great. That said, if you couldn't understand the ruling on the play based on what was posted in this thread before that point, by me and numerous other posters, that's on you. At no point did anyone say just accept it. It was laid out clearly with textual evidence and visual evidence.
    HawkStrong
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:07 pm
  • To be fair, I don't blame Scutterhawk for being confused by some of y'all's responses. You guys kept attacking singular points and making too many assumptions, assuming everyone knew what you were getting at by arguing possession. Communication goes two ways, and it shows a lack of maturity to blame one side or the other completely when there is a breakdown in communication. If someone isn't understanding what you're trying to communicate, a lot of times its because you are doing a poor job of communicating. For me when I find myself in that situation, it helps to step back and take a new approach and try to see things from their point of view and self evaluate my my own stance.
    DJrmb
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:12 pm
  • DJrmb wrote:To be fair, I don't blame Scutterhawk for being confused by some of y'all's responses. You guys kept attacking singular points and making too many assumptions, assuming everyone knew what you were getting at by arguing possession. Communication goes two ways, and it shows a lack of maturity to blame one side or the other completely when there is a breakdown in communication. If someone isn't understanding what you're trying to communicate, a lot of times its because you are doing a poor job of communicating. For me when I find myself in that situation, it helps to step back and take a new approach and try to see things from their point of view and self evaluate my my own stance.


    Read the thread back through, that's not exactly how it went down. People tried to explain it every which way, scutter was being willfully obtuse.
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:31 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:To be fair, I don't blame Scutterhawk for being confused by some of y'all's responses. You guys kept attacking singular points and making too many assumptions, assuming everyone knew what you were getting at by arguing possession. Communication goes two ways, and it shows a lack of maturity to blame one side or the other completely when there is a breakdown in communication. If someone isn't understanding what you're trying to communicate, a lot of times its because you are doing a poor job of communicating. For me when I find myself in that situation, it helps to step back and take a new approach and try to see things from their point of view and self evaluate my my own stance.


    Read the thread back through, that's not exactly how it went down. People tried to explain it every which way, scutter was being willfully obtuse.

    Obtuse?, you're calling me obtuse?, that's rich...Every which way?.You left holes in all your ATTEMPTED explanations, DJmb fills them in, and you want to claim the credit?..... yah, I don't think so. :roll:
    scutterhawk
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:07 pm
  • DJrmb wrote:To be fair, I don't blame Scutterhawk for being confused by some of y'all's responses. You guys kept attacking singular points and making too many assumptions, assuming everyone knew what you were getting at by arguing possession. Communication goes two ways, and it shows a lack of maturity to blame one side or the other completely when there is a breakdown in communication. If someone isn't understanding what you're trying to communicate, a lot of times its because you are doing a poor job of communicating. For me when I find myself in that situation, it helps to step back and take a new approach and try to see things from their point of view and self evaluate my my own stance.


    There's a photo in the thread showing lost possession, I posted the fieldgulls article showing photographic evidence and a detailed explanation. Then he sarcastically says "oh because fieldgulls said so it must be true" while trying to tell us possession isn't lost if your body touches the ball. Why should anyone step back and see things from someones point of view when they refuse to accept facts and go out of their way to walk around them? If I tell you gravity isn't real and you won't drown if you try and breathe underwater, after you show me evidence, then good luck trying look at it from my point of view
    cymatica
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Re: We Won the Game and I'm Pissed Off
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:59 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:To be fair, I don't blame Scutterhawk for being confused by some of y'all's responses. You guys kept attacking singular points and making too many assumptions, assuming everyone knew what you were getting at by arguing possession. Communication goes two ways, and it shows a lack of maturity to blame one side or the other completely when there is a breakdown in communication. If someone isn't understanding what you're trying to communicate, a lot of times its because you are doing a poor job of communicating. For me when I find myself in that situation, it helps to step back and take a new approach and try to see things from their point of view and self evaluate my my own stance.


    Read the thread back through, that's not exactly how it went down. People tried to explain it every which way, scutter was being willfully obtuse.

    Obtuse?, you're calling me obtuse?, that's rich...Every which way?.You left holes in all your ATTEMPTED explanations, DJmb fills them in, and you want to claim the credit?..... yah, I don't think so. :roll:



    I'm not claiming credit anywhere other than being one the many voices that was providing factual statements. Djmb clarified a point that I thought was already pointed out clearly. Good on Djmd seeing the exact point you were confused about.
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