Would this defense be better with Kris Richard?

rjdriver · Nov 4, 2019

I wish I had the football IQ to understand scheme better to formulate an objective opinion, but I know many of you do.

I was one of the fans who were so enamored by Norton Jr. when he was our LB coach, that I was bummed to see him go to Oakland and not get our DC job. I loved his energy and thought he was a perfect fit for instilling our (then) young linebackers with the discipline and fire they need to excel.

That being said, clearly we have defensive issues. I’m not one of those “He sucks because he’s not Walter Jones” guys either. I’m not saying we have issues compared to our legendary D of a few years ago, I mean we have issues compared to anyone right now. It is very uncharacteristic for a Pete Carol coached squad.

Is our problem strictly personnel, or are we being frequently out schemed, allowing back up QB’s and average offensives to have huge days against us? I feel like our DB’s might be further along if Kris Richard were still here, but that’s nothing but an uneducated “gut feeling”.

Do you guys feel that Kris Richard (if we had retained him) would be having any more success assuming he had the exact same personnel that Norton Jr. has? Was it a mistake to let him go, or do we just not have the talent and/or playmakers regardless of who is our DC?

chris98251 · Nov 4, 2019

Defiantly think Richards ability to teach and assist with technique was a boon for us early on, we started seeing a slip when he was promoted to DC and much more evident now with him being gone.

Mad Dog · Nov 4, 2019

I think it's all "Peter Principle" at work here. People rise to their level of incompetence. Richard and Norton are supremely competent position coaches but DC is beyond their capability. I'd love to have the grouping of Richard, Norton and Quinn again with Quinn as DC, Richard and Norton as position guys.

TwistedHusky · Nov 4, 2019

Richard would have been much better.

Not SB caliber, but certainly much better than what we have.

Quinn would be an improvement even over Richard but we don't have an above average roster on D regardless. So people would be disappointed thinking that he would get the same results with this roster as he had when he had 3-4 HOF caliber players on his roster.

Sgt. Largent · Nov 4, 2019

Both run Pete's systems and schemes, so not sure why he'd be better.

Richard is doing well in Dallas running the same concepts and schemes he did here. So why is doing better than Norton? Talent. Same reason we ran Richard out of here three years ago when the defense starting stinking because of that loss of talent and production.

Amazing how good players make coordinators and coaches look good, and how everyone points to them as the problem when the players play poorly.

Bradley, Quinn, Richard, Norton.............they're all the same coordinator, and that coordinator's name is Pete Carroll.

jlwaters1 · Nov 4, 2019

I'm amused that it's "all the COACHES FAULT"... No one seems to place the blame on the players. It's always the OC or DC fault for bad play. The coaches coach,, the players have to execute and play what they've been taught.

Was it Norton's fault that Blair didn't catch the ball which ended up bouncing off into the WR hands for a lucky TD?
Was it Norton's fault for the complete miscommunication that allowed there biggest threat WIDE OPEN to catch the pass down inside the 5 on there final drive? Was it Norton's fault that Bobby made a dumb play and hit the player out of bounds that went from a FG attempt and was instead converted into a TD on the 1st drive?.

What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

The biggest problem with the defense is we aren't getting pressure or any kind of turnovers. I'm hopeful we'll see improvement throughout the rest of the season. I think we're going to need to blitz more often to get it done though.

chris98251 · Nov 4, 2019

jlwaters1":1vvoe4gv said:
I'm amused that it's "all the COACHES FAULT"... No one seems to place the blame on the players. It's always the OC or DC fault for bad play. The coaches coach,, the players have to execute and play what they've been taught.

Was it Norton's fault that Blair didn't catch the ball which ended up bouncing off into the WR hands for a lucky TD?
Was it Norton's fault for the complete miscommunication that allowed there biggest threat WIDE OPEN to catch the pass down inside the 5 on there final drive? Was it Norton's fault that Bobby made a dumb play and hit the player out of bounds that went from a FG attempt and was instead converted into a TD on the 1st drive?.

What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

The biggest problem with the defense is we aren't getting pressure or any kind of turnovers. I'm hopeful we'll see improvement throughout the rest of the season. I think we're going to need to blitz more often to get it done though.

You ALWAYS force the play inside, that's where the support is, that's where the hand off is suppose to take place to the SS or LB to clean up.

Sgt. Largent · Nov 4, 2019

jlwaters1":3fbnpmnj said:
What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

Because it was a blown coverage on the inside zone safety or DB, whoever was suppose to hand off Evans.

They both went with the outside route receiver, and left Evans alone.

Seems rudimentary in how we're playing defense, so idk. Just bad defense, par for the course this year.

DomeHawk · Nov 4, 2019

rjdriver":16db12qm said:
I wish I had the football IQ to understand scheme better to formulate an objective opinion, but I know many of you do.

I was one of the fans who were so enamored by Norton Jr. when he was our LB coach, that I was bummed to see him go to Oakland and not get our DC job. I loved his energy and thought he was a perfect fit for instilling our (then) young linebackers with the discipline and fire they need to excel.

That being said, clearly we have defensive issues. I’m not one of those “He sucks because he’s not Walter Jones” guys either. I’m not saying we have issues compared to our legendary D of a few years ago, I mean we have issues compared to anyone right now. It is very uncharacteristic for a Pete Carol coached squad.

Is our problem strictly personnel, or are we being frequently out schemed, allowing back up QB’s and average offensives to have huge days against us? I feel like our DB’s might be further along if Kris Richard were still here, but that’s nothing but an uneducated “gut feeling”.

Do you guys feel that Kris Richard (if we had retained him) would be having any more success assuming he had the exact same personnel that Norton Jr. has? Was it a mistake to let him go, or do we just not have the talent and/or playmakers regardless of who is our DC?

This defense is the result of trading down in the draft to get multiple picks hoping that some will fall through the cracks ala LOB.

It didn't happen.

knownone · Nov 4, 2019

Our issues on defense are entirely pass rush related at this point. If they could get any semblance of pressure a lot of those issues would be minimized.

The Cowboys pass defense is only slightly better than ours, so I'm not sure Richard would make a significant difference.

DomeHawk · Nov 4, 2019

knownone":1tf8h3j7 said:
Our issues on defense are entirely pass rush related at this point. If they could get any semblance of pressure a lot of those issues would be minimized.

The Cowboys pass defense is only slightly better than ours, so I'm not sure Richard would make a significant difference.

Have to agree, I wrote in a post a couple of weeks ago that our season would go as our pass rush goes.

I am going to stay with that, it has to improve.

Sports Hernia · Nov 4, 2019

jlwaters1":2ik24gyk said:
I'm amused that it's "all the COACHES FAULT"... No one seems to place the blame on the players. It's always the OC or DC fault for bad play. The coaches coach,, the players have to execute and play what they've been taught.

Was it Norton's fault that Blair didn't catch the ball which ended up bouncing off into the WR hands for a lucky TD?
Was it Norton's fault for the complete miscommunication that allowed there biggest threat WIDE OPEN to catch the pass down inside the 5 on there final drive? Was it Norton's fault that Bobby made a dumb play and hit the player out of bounds that went from a FG attempt and was instead converted into a TD on the 1st drive?.

What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

The biggest problem with the defense is we aren't getting pressure or any kind of turnovers. I'm hopeful we'll see improvement throughout the rest of the season. I think we're going to need to blitz more often to get it done though.

Sounds like you’re a coach or a former coach?

seahawks08 · Nov 4, 2019

I probably doubt it, change in scheme will always challenge our veterans who are used to playing in a system and then changing it around. Everyone seems lost as this scheme doesn't seem to be executed perfectly. If the scheme gets executed properly, we would generate consistent pressure and and would stuff the run as well. Again, just my own opinion.

bbsplitter · Nov 4, 2019

I'm a firm believer that the grass is not always greener on the other side. This is 75% lack of talent. I'm not saying Norton shouldn't shoulder some of the blame, but you give him the players that Richard had and you have different results this season than we have seen so far, I guarantee you that.

Cyrus12 · Nov 4, 2019

No Richard was terrible...funny how when he was here he got the Bevell treatment...now that hes gone hes all of a sudden considered as a good coach. Only got the job because the LOB wanted him to get it.

chris98251 · Nov 4, 2019

Cyrus12":gudo1t9m said:
No Richard was terrible...funny how when he was here he got the Bevell treatment...now that hes gone hes all of a sudden considered as a good coach. Only got the job because the LOB wanted him to get it.

He was a fantastic position coach, not a great DC. I think he was too close to the players to be honest and he used Bradley's mentality as a DC.

toffee · Nov 4, 2019

Robert Saleh was widely criticized and fans asked for his head weekly, if not daily. Now his D is one of the best, if not the best in the league this season. Either he suddenly wised up or it's the players.

sc85sis · Nov 4, 2019

Talent isn't what it was, and our pass rush isn't getting home—despite having good talent there. One of the radio guys suggested maybe the issue with pass rush is that they're all too similar in the technique they're using, specifically too much bull-rushing and not enough other approaches. I don't know enough about D-line play to have any clue whether that has merit. Has anyone noticed anything to this effect?

DomeHawk · Nov 4, 2019

chris98251":2lrc8fea said:
Cyrus12":2lrc8fea said:

No Richard was terrible...funny how when he was here he got the Bevell treatment...now that hes gone hes all of a sudden considered as a good coach. Only got the job because the LOB wanted him to get it.

Click to expand...

He was a fantastic position coach, not a great DC. I think he was too close to the players to be honest and he used Bradley's mentality as a DC.

This is a good take and it really is impossible to know if you weren't actually there but it does feel that way.

Mad Dog · Nov 4, 2019

As the saying goes, "It's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmies and Joes".

Schemes are great but if the personnel aren't right for them, then no matter of scheming will fix it.

We need a true penetrator from the tackle position and a bendy edge guy with moves. Until you get those types, you will struggle to rush the passer. We have a bunch of bull rushers.

Would this defense be better with Kris Richard?

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