What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?

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  • Mizak wrote:Please, Jackson is frontrunner for MvP. Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses? Has Jackson? Oh wait, we saw Jackson completely destroy that Patriot D secondary.

    Wilson needs to one up Jackson.


    You act as though Jackson single handedly beat the pats. He has a great team, in all phases, around him. He has a very good oline. He has an offense taylor made to accentuate his quickness and speed. Wilson has done more with less. They both have the same record, yet Wilson has dealt with much more adversity.

    Switch the QBs around. Who looks better, Wilson on the Ravens or Jackson on the Seahawks. Put them on just about any team together and Wilson is the starter. Let's see if Jackson can be the world beater he is when defenses scheme that offense or when he loses speed
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  • cymatica wrote:
    Mizak wrote:Please, Jackson is frontrunner for MvP. Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses? Has Jackson? Oh wait, we saw Jackson completely destroy that Patriot D secondary.

    Wilson needs to one up Jackson.


    You act as though Jackson single-handed beat the pats. He has a great team, in all phases, around him. He has a very good oline. He has an offense Taylor made to accentuate his quickness and speed. Wilson has done more with less. They both have the same record, yet Wilson has dealt with much more adversity.

    Switch the QBs around. Who looks better, Wilson on the Ravens or Jackson on the Seahawks. Put them on just about any team together and Wilson is the starter. Let's see if Jackson can be the world beater he is when defenses scheme that offense or when he loses speed



    Good points lets look at that for a minute

    Seattle defense ranking by yards- 28th, by points-23, by DVOA-22nd
    Baltimore by yards-11, by points-14, by DVOA-14

    Hmm all Baltimore

    Oline
    Baltimore ranked 6th for run, 17th for pass
    Seattle ranked 20th run, 20th pass

    Again Baltimore

    RBs
    Seattle 10
    Balt 6

    Hmm, Baltimore!

    Special Teams
    Seattle 28th

    Balt 5th

    Hmm Baltimore

    QB
    Stats have been listed so DVOA
    Seattle 3
    Balt 9

    Hmm Seattle

    So Basically Balt has the advantage in every category except QB HMMM

    All stats' courtesy of ESPN and footballoutsiders
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  • Vegas odds are interesting, and more or less express a two-man race:

    Lamar 7-5
    Russ 2-1
    Rodgers 9-1
    Mahomes 10-1
    Prescott 10-1
    Cousins 15-1
    McCaffrey 20-1
    Watson 20-1

    Keep in mind, these are Vegas odds, not a current analysis of who they think deserves it. These are just to make money, but still interesting. If I HAD to put money on something, that Cousins at 15-1 is a little intriguing if the Vikings finish strong.
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  • Rat wrote:Vegas odds are interesting, and more or less express a two-man race:

    Lamar 7-5
    Russ 2-1
    Rodgers 9-1
    Mahomes 10-1
    Prescott 10-1
    Cousins 15-1
    McCaffrey 20-1
    Watson 20-1

    Keep in mind, these are Vegas odds, not a current analysis of who they think deserves it. These are just to make money, but still interesting. If I HAD to put money on something, that Cousins at 15-1 is a little intriguing if the Vikings finish strong.


    IF both Jackson and Wilson perform as expected, even though both teams will have the same record, and Wilson will have the better stats. Jackson will win. He is east coast and most of the voters are east coast. The last time Wilson was in the running most admitted they had only seen a couple of our games, while they saw all of the winners games. Like ti or not their is an east coast bias if for no other reason then when the games are on.
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  • Every time it’s someone new to try to place over Wilson. Before it was Mahomes, then it was Christian McCaffrey. Now it’s Lamar Jackson. Even though Lamar Jackson’s O-line is ranked near the top, and Seattle’s is ranked near the bottom.

    But, what did you expect. Nothing Wilson has ever done is enough to gain respect.
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  • Rat wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Ravens have wins against the Patriots, Seahawks, and Texans. Not like they havn't been tested. When you win six in a row, it's about a lot more than being the "shiny new toy". In recent years, the vet players have won more than the young guys anyway. Four of the past six have been older than Russ is now.



    Lol does kot changebhon being the shiny new toy is not part of it. Also we have big wins also.


    Our second biggest win was against a 5-4 Rams team, and we needed their normally reliable kicker to miss a 41-yarder. Better hope they win tonight or we're down to just one win against a team with a winning record.


    Didn’t Meyers miss a FG that game? Didn’t we fumble like twice.

    Hilarious how all the mistakes by the other team, but not our mistakes, makes the Seahawks lucky. Never the other way around
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  • Jackson has pretty much already won it, the way he's being talking about 24/7. Sounds like the media will likely get what they want. Shoot, I love watching the guy play, he's damn good. But Russ has never once received an MVP vote, not once. :roll:
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Jackson has pretty much already won it, the way he's being talking about 24/7. Sounds like the media will likely get what they want. Shoot, I love watching the guy play, he's damn good. But Russ has never once received an MVP vote, not once. :roll:


    Agreed but we will see what happens next week. It only takes 1 bad game for everything to change. Also remember Wilson did not play last week so there is no counter narrative.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Jackson has pretty much already won it, the way he's being talking about 24/7. Sounds like the media will likely get what they want. Shoot, I love watching the guy play, he's damn good. But Russ has never once received an MVP vote, not once. :roll:


    During and after the 9ers game, there was a lot of discussion around RW and the MVP race.

    Their is already a narrative around Wilson, and the understanding that this is his best year so far. It doesn't get the traction of Jackson or Mahomes for obvious reasons.. Wilson already had his breakout years.

    It's no conspiracy or campaign, just simple marketing
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  • I'll believe it when I see it. Not gonna' let myself assume anything. JS not winning exec of the year once is next level stupid. Let alone Pete not getting COY once. But hey, Arians Nation got it twice :roll:
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  • What would it take? 31 other teams to have their QB go down, Wilson could lead the league in yards and touchdowns and win the Super Bowl and would not win it. Just as John will never get Executive nor Pete Coach or the year. The writers hate us or discount us and that's where a lot of the push comes from. Voting by peers all three would have a legitimate shot at something.
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  • It's unfortunate that awards are more of a popularity contest than anything. Lame
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I'll believe it when I see it. Not gonna' let myself assume anything. JS not winning exec of the year once is next level stupid. Let alone Pete not getting COY once. But hey, Arians Nation got it twice :roll:



    You're assuming he will lose...

    We've seen a Seahawk win MvP.. it's not unprecedented.
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  • we will see, the interesting part is going to be, the voters will get a list of facts and stats. This will include defensive ranking of teams played, of their own team, offensive rankings, etc. They will have a clear picture. If both go as expected, the stats will be Passing Wilson, Running Jackson, combined close. Then the other facts better defense Jackson, Better Oline Jackson, Better run game Jackson, tougher schedule Wilson, the combakc wins Wilson. Then they will need to decide if the excitement of Jackson counters the consistency, and lack of support of Wilson. Now if Jackson does set the new record for rushing by a QB that could change things, but if Wilson throws at least 1 td in every game that would also be a record.

    We will see. All that aside I am guessing one or both will have at least 1 more less then stellar game.
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  • It's just my opinion. He certainly deserves it and I hope he does. But we've been down this road before. He's my favorite player in the league, needless to say I'll be plenty pissed if he doesn't win it. I just see so much hype on the flavor of the week out in Baltimore, I'm starting to think he's going to win it instead of Russ. Not assuming anything, just guessing. And NO, I do NOT think the league is against the Hawks :roll:
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • My own opinion is that time in the league should mean something. There are probably two or three solid contenders every year; a player who is consistently in the discussion should get a little more consideration in a tight race. Certainly that shouldn't decide it if a player is head and shoulders above the competition, but it should be sort of a tie breaker.
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  • I can't imagine any player who is more VALUABLE to his team than Russ. That's not a homer opinion, that's just reality. If you're gonna' call it Most Valuable Player, it should be just that.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I can't imagine any player who is more VALUABLE to his team than Russ. That's not a homer opinion, that's just reality. If you're gonna' call it Most Valuable Player, it should be just that.


    Exactly, they can give the Offensive Player of the Year to Lamar or Mccaffrey. MVP should be Wilson.
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  • Or Lamar can have MVP of the league and Russ can have MVP of the Super Bowl.....in a victory over the Ravens :lol:
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  • Aaaaaand this morning I heard Rich Eisen floating the idea of Dak for MVP.


    :pukeface: :pukeface: :pukeface:
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Aaaaaand this morning I heard Rich Eisen floating the idea of Dak for MVP.


    :pukeface: :pukeface: :pukeface:


    An MVP for a team whose coach is likely to be fired? Doesn't sound likely.
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  • Torc wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Aaaaaand this morning I heard Rich Eisen floating the idea of Dak for MVP.


    :pukeface: :pukeface: :pukeface:


    An MVP for a team whose coach is likely to be fired? Doesn't sound likely.



    Not to mention he just had an awful game
    John63
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  • I don't know how you can watch Sunday's game, and tonight's game, and legitimately claim that Wilson should be MVP.

    Jackson is simply at another level. Not a sustainable one, but his speed, read, and precision are on another level.

    I truly hate how this league has become about meaningless stats, but Jackson is phenomenal.
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  • bigskydoc wrote:I don't know how you can watch Sunday's game, and tonight's game, and legitimately claim that Wilson should be MVP.

    Jackson is simply at another level. Not a sustainable one, but his speed, read, and precision are on another level.

    I truly hate how this league has become about meaningless stats, but Jackson is phenomenal.

    At this point he's definitely leading imo. But there are 5 games to play and Russ has 2 prime time games plus possibly a flex to Sunday night week 17. Jackson's leading but it ain't over yet.
    More importantly, just win Russ. Accolades are nice, but rings matter much, much more.
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  • Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.
    Rat
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  • As of this moment: putting a hit on LJ.
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  • Lamar is #1 right now. Russ is #2 since his last two games were sub par. Id rather win SB then mvp.
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  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:Lamar is #1 right now. Russ is #2 since his last two games were sub par. Id rather win SB then mvp.


    why not both
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  • Gotta agree. I super-duper hope RW plays well enough to earn the award, but Jackson is just killing it in all phases. These are the two finalists IMO, but after this week, LJ has to be the front runner, and deservedly so.
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  • Lamar Jackson is mvp. Any other argument is wishful thinking for Wilson. Jackson makes every single play a total mind-£€¥[ to defend.
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  • rcaido wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:Lamar is #1 right now. Russ is #2 since his last two games were sub par. Id rather win SB then mvp.


    why not both



    Sure i agree.
    Shanegotyou11
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  • LJ is in a much more dynamic situation, Wilson means more because we play close and don't blow out teams with keeping the pressure on with our offense and have our bend not break defense. We were at our best with an attacking defense that Quinn implemented with basically the same scheme.

    The fact that I have seen players ask Pete if we can score more tells me about the conservative aspect of our offense.
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  • Lamar was not in the lead for MVP before tonight. Now he is.

    He’s leading Russell by two touchdowns though. Before, Russell led the entire league in touchdowns. While some of you were still arguing Russell wasn’t in the lead.

    Lamar’s amazing game tonight will have the media and public raving. Again, he’s only leading by two touchdowns, but they’ll say Lamar is “running away with it.”

    Do I still believe Russ has had a better overall season? Yes, Russ is playing the Qb position the best it’s been played in years. In a tougher division, worse O-line, and had to overcome more obstacles the first 9 games than Lamar. Doesn’t matter though. MVP is as much a popularity/narrative award as it is a stats award. Lamar, FINALLY, took the lead in stats
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  • Rat wrote:Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.



    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though
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  • Zero chance after tonight, unless Lamar gets caught murdering a hooker. His running is so reckless, I don't see him making it through another season without getting a serious injury. Being a reckless runner is making defenses have to respect him more, which is making it easier for him to throw, but that can't last forever.
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.



    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though


    Good point. Mahomes was propped up so much last year by Kansas City being in Delaware.
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  • I told you guys back in post #10 of this thread, in answer to the thread title -
    "Seattle would have to move south by at least 500 miles and east by at least 1000 miles."
    And, it's still true.
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  • Wilson is probably the best passer there is this season, but he's getting smoked as a pure playmaker by Jackson. I don't know why you guys do this to yourselves. You can argue all sorts of things and stats and $h!t, but the NFL is about money. If the average fan across the nation is going to watch a given player not on their team, then they watch the most entertaining player out there that puts up tons of points and huge plays. This, coincidentally, is also what makes the league money, which rules the friggin world.

    So you can say all sorts of tin foil hat crap about whatever, but live in the real world and follow the money. The player that lights up the scoreboard gets the ratings and makes the league money.
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  • I want Russ to win the MVP as much as anyone, but right now Jackson is playing out of his freakin' mind. The only hope I see for Russ to reclaim the front-running position is if Jackson gets injured. I would never wish injury on any player but it's worth noting the dude looks 190 pounds wet with twigs for legs.

    Just. Sayin'.

    :stirthepot:
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  • I think Lamar Jackson is the MVP. But Russell Wilson is playing awesome also and is well deserving of it too. It's a vote and a popularity contest to some extent. So who knows who the real MVP is ever? But at least Wilson is playing outstanding and your team is doing really good. He is always a great QB. But this year he seems to be playing at an even higher level.
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  • Many say Wilson plays Hero ball, he does, we just have a guy that's playing Super Hero ball right now in the same season.
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  • After last nights game it’s Jackson’s to lose. There’s no way with all the East coast bias, hype and their current record that he loses it unless they lose out.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:I told you guys back in post #10 of this thread, in answer to the thread title -
    "Seattle would have to move south by at least 500 miles and east by at least 1000 miles."
    And, it's still true.


    No, it's not. Jackson is unstoppable right now and it's not east coast bias. Wilson has had a couple of "meh" games in a row (2 TDs, 2 INTs) one of which was on primetime, and a bye. Over that stretch of three weeks, pure passing numbers Jackson has had 12 TDs and zero interceptions. It's your Seahawk goggles clouding your judgement here. Wilson can get back in it if he tears it up from here on out and Jackson comes back to earth a bit.

    Besides, did I miss when the Seahawks moved south 500 miles and east 1000 miles back in 2005?
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  • Its Lamar's to lose at this point, last two games weren't great for Russ
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  • Jackson has taken a clear step ahead after this weekend, but has a tough game ahead against the 49ers, while Wilson is at home to the Vikings. Now, Wilson had one of his all time worst games last year against the Vikes, so it's' no gimme, but he has an opportunity to take a leap back in front if Jackson falters and he plays well.

    If Wilson connects with Metcalf and Hollister for those 2 TDs they're probably still level in the MVP race, so I don't think there's that much between them still. If Lockett is back to full speed and Carson can go 60 minutes without a fumble then I think Wilson has a good chance to wrestle it back to himself.
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  • Rat wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.



    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though


    Good point. Mahomes was propped up so much last year by Kansas City being in Delaware.


    That’s adorable. But at some point you’re going to have to actually use logic and reason. Or not, being snarky is cool too, though it doesn’t say much about your reasoning skills.

    Although, I get that pretending media bias doesn’t exist works for you. Doesn’t change the round the clock media coverage and hype Russ has never gotten. Compared to Mahomes, Rodgers, and Lamar at different points over the years. Pay objective attention to the coverage this week.
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.



    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though


    Good point. Mahomes was propped up so much last year by Kansas City being in Delaware.


    That’s adorable. But at some point you’re going to have to actually use logic and reason. Or not, being snarky is cool too, though it doesn’t say much about your reasoning skills.

    Although, I get that pretending media bias doesn’t exist works for you. Doesn’t change the round the clock media coverage and hype Russ has never gotten. Compared to Mahomes, Rodgers, and Lamar at different points over the years. Pay objective attention to the coverage this week.


    Can you blame the media for all the coverage on Mahomes last year? I don't think it was over the top considering it was basically his rookie year and he threw 50 TDs. 50. If Russ has done that in his rookie year, I guarantee you he would have received just as much coverage.
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Damn east coast bias causing another good game for Lamar.



    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though


    Good point. Mahomes was propped up so much last year by Kansas City being in Delaware.


    That’s adorable. But at some point you’re going to have to actually use logic and reason. Or not, being snarky is cool too, though it doesn’t say much about your reasoning.


    Being a paranoid broken record that whines non-stop about media coverage, and putting your fingers in your ears when the outlets do talk him up is hardly "logic" and "reasoning".
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I can't imagine any player who is more VALUABLE to his team than Russ. That's not a homer opinion, that's just reality. If you're gonna' call it Most Valuable Player, it should be just that.

    Absolutely on the money. :2thumbs:
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  • Seanhawk wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:

    East coast bias is the reason you’ll see hype and Mahomes like media coverage Russ didn’t get from weeks 1-9 :lol:

    Stick to your talking points though


    Good point. Mahomes was propped up so much last year by Kansas City being in Delaware.


    That’s adorable. But at some point you’re going to have to actually use logic and reason. Or not, being snarky is cool too, though it doesn’t say much about your reasoning skills.

    Although, I get that pretending media bias doesn’t exist works for you. Doesn’t change the round the clock media coverage and hype Russ has never gotten. Compared to Mahomes, Rodgers, and Lamar at different points over the years. Pay objective attention to the coverage this week.


    Can you blame the media for all the coverage on Mahomes last year? I don't think it was over the top considering it was basically his rookie year and he threw 50 TDs. 50. If Russ has done that in his rookie year, I guarantee you he would have received just as much coverage.


    In addition to those 50 TDs, Mahomes also had more than 5000 passing yards, considerable rushing yards, and led his team to a 12-4 record and the No. 1 seed in the AFC, but no, it was because he was the "shiny new toy" (forgetting that 4 of the past 6 MVPs were older than Russ is now, with the exceptions being Mahomes and a man who posted a 45 TD season for a 15-1 team), and because of all the "east coast bias" his AFC West squad received.

    Oh wait, that was me not using "logic" or "reasoning" again. What I meant was "bUt tHe MeDiA!!!!".
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