What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?

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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    toffee wrote:And yet, some will still insist that Russ is too short, too white and merely an elite game manager. Sigh


    When was the last time someone called Russell too short? 2012? I only see it as a punchline on here.



    As recent as last year. When people attributed his imperfect play to his height.

    I actually think it’s funny that someone can be ignored and dismissed for years, and as soon as that person does something that can’t be ignored, we want to rewrite history as if it was always obvious


    That wasnt the point.

    People were saying that even after the Rams game, nine would be talking about Russ.

    But they were.

    And they still are.
    McGruff
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  • Hopefully Mahomes is ok, that looked really bad. And a dislocated knee cap is no joke. Sounds like x-ray's were negative and he could be out 3-4 weeks.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Mahomes will be ok.

    Reid should be pilloried for that playcall.

    I'm not sold on Watson keeping pace.

    Then again, Wilson is about to run into a murderer's row of defenses.

    The only thing standing in the way of his MVP, is the schedule, and the media's love of the 2 legacy QBs in the convo. I would say that this weekend's game is for the MVP, but I think the media will ignore Jackson just like they ignored Wilson for so long.

    In the end I think it will come down to Wilson vs Rodgers, and Wilson will have to continue to play at his current pace to have a chance. The media will continue to make excuses for Rodgers poor play "no weapons," and praise his heroics, while ignoring Wilson toiling away efficiently with a similar lack of weapons.
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  • Hard to see McCaffrey tailing off any time soon, even when Cam gets back. He basically is that offense now. I think he'll be in the race for a while.

    Lamar Jackson is going crazy lately too, and the Ravens should keep winning since their division is trash. I hope we don't further his candidacy this weekend.
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  • What the hell was Reid thinking? A QB Sneak for a guy with a bad ankle already and one of the best players in the NFL?? Next level stupid.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:What the hell was Reid thinking? A QB Sneak for a guy with a bad ankle already and one of the best players in the NFL?? Next level stupid.


    To be fair, a QB quick hit up the middle for one yard isn't the most dangerous play there is for a QB. It seems like Tom Brady does it every game and has never been injured from it. It also looks like the damage happened in the pile, which could happen on any play. Its a shame this happened even if the road for Wilson to win the MVP got easier.
    aawolf
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  • Don't like the call at all, way too much can happen. And he's already playing with a really bad ankle injury. Not worth the risk.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • MVP is now RWs award to lose. So what will it take? keep balling out and do not have a game where he craps himself and basically negates all the stats with multiple INTs or something.
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  • The biggest issue with the MVP race is often that it’s not really about who is the most valuable, despite the name of the award. It’s about who puts up stats and gets buzz on a winning team. One could argue that Russ was by far the most valuable player to his team the year he almost single-handedly accounted for the entire offensive output, yet he got little to no notice because the team had a “bad” year and he wasn’t creating crazy, fantasy football stats.
    sc85sis
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  • Rat wrote:Hard to see McCaffrey tailing off any time soon, even when Cam gets back. He basically is that offense now. I think he'll be in the race for a while.

    Lamar Jackson is going crazy lately too, and the Ravens should keep winning since their division is trash. I hope we don't further his candidacy this weekend.


    He already did last week 22/31 1,4 ypc.
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  • Well that'll likely be the end of that, fair or not. That's fine. More interested in winning games.
    Erin probably the new leader in the clubhouse. Had 5 TDs today and Packers are 6-1.
    I might add that the Saints D is actually the NFL MVP so far.
    Last edited by hawksfansinceday1 on Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • 20/41 (48.7% completions) 241 yards, 1 TD, and an ugly, ugly pick-six for a 65.2 rating.

    Imagine the talk on here if Mahomes put up a stat line like that. I was told Russ wouldn't have a bad game the entire season.
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  • Rat wrote:20/41 (48.7% completions) 241 yards, 1 TD, and an ugly, ugly pick-six for a 65.2 rating.

    Imagine the talk on here if Mahomes put up a stat line like that. I was told Russ wouldn't have a bad game the entire season.
    Last edited by MontanaHawk05 on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: knock it off
    John63
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  • ZagHawk wrote:The last time RW was brought up for the MVP conversation, he had a game or two where he played like garbage, or least NOT MVP material.



    History repeats itself. Call me superstitious but let’s end the RW MVP hype
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  • He finally had a bad game. The media is loving it. Meh, don't care one bit if he wins it.
    Just keep winning game Russ.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He finally had a bad game. The media is loving it.


    Who is reveling in him having a bad game? He may be overlooked sometimes, but I rarely see anyone in the media callously ripping on him.
    Rat
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  • It was talked about just yesterday on 710. I don't care one bit, just my opinion that some have been waiting for it. Doesn't matter, it's a select few who wait to pounce. They don't matter anyway.
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  • Rat wrote:20/41 (48.7% completions) 241 yards, 1 TD, and an ugly, ugly pick-six for a 65.2 rating.

    Imagine the talk on here if Mahomes put up a stat line like that. I was told Russ wouldn't have a bad game the entire season.


    If Mahomes put up those numbers, in non-rain weather...with Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Andy Reid as his playcaller. And an O-line that's better even with their injuries, that would be particularly pathetic. I mean, pathetic to the point where Mahomes should never be compared to Wilson again. No one ever argued Wilson wouldn't have a bad game.

    But as I said before, Wilson will have to be near perfect to win. They're already ready to prop Rodgers up as Mahomes replacement, even though Rodgers has had only one great game. People can make their arguments, but the bias is truly real
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  • Absolutely it was real. The same mediots who were saying Russ was clearly the front runner are now acting like he's way down on the list. Especially bozo's like Mike Florio, you would think they were the Redskins this week. Last week they were talking them up as a contender. It's entertaining to say the least. All because of one great game from Lord Rodgers. Meh, it doesn't matter, he's not going to win MVP and that's fine. Behind this pathetic O Line, it would take a lot for him to win it imo. And he played like crap on Sunday. Didn't see that coming, but this team just doesn't have the talent to make up for him even having just an ok game.
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  • Chiefs fans have been complaining about their O-line and defense.

    Our O-line pass block win rate is ranked 27th. Chiefs are ranked 19th even with injuries and better weapons

    No team with a winning record has given up as many points as the Seahawks, 176 points.

    The Packers are ranked #1 in pass block win rate. Packers are ranked 12 in points allowed.

    So not only is Russell playing near perfect and OUT PERFORMING Mahomes and Rodgers for the season, he's also carrying way more on his shoulders and overcoming way more. So yea, people can spare me with the Russ bias. It's not close.
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  • Andy Reid just made Matt Moore look like a top 10-15 QB
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:Andy Reid just made Matt Moore look like a top 10-15 QB



    Yeah they were talking about that and how it actually hurts Mahomess MVP/
    Last edited by John63 on Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • if only they won today. looks like erin is going to start leading soon in mvp talk. he sure loves to pad his stats.
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  • rcaido wrote:if only they won today. looks like erin is going to start leading soon in mvp talk. he sure loves to pad his stats.

    Well see. lots of season to go
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  • I think Wilson winning MVP is a fairytale at this point, just by virtue of our head coach.

    Realistically I don't think he is going to have the proper volume numbers at the end of the year to win MVP. It is just the way our head coach likes to do things. He is a big proponent of the running game, and as such Wilson won't have the same volume numbers as the other guys. In addition to that he needs to be efficient, and be heading a team that has is near the top of the NFL.

    I don't see Wilson hitting all of those criteria. Unfortunately volume stats will matter in this race. The biggest obstacle for Wilson to overcome will be his own head coach.
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  • It does seem like Pete is just WAY too afraid to go for the throat with a lead. Or, to just let Russ fling it. Clearly the Falcons couldn't stop the pass, up 24 zip there's no need to go conservative.
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  • LOL. Yea, we're just imagining the bias and lack of respect towards Russ. Nothing to see here

    Image
    Scorpion05
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Yea, we're just imagining the bias and lack of respect towards Russ. Nothing to see here

    Image

    Kirk Cousins? Seriously? Kirk freakin' Cousins!!?? OK, that's just plain pathetic to have him there and not Russ. Kirk 2-9-1 vs. .500 or better teams Cousins??!!
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • It will take a minor miracle for Russ to win MVP. I’ve been following the race pretty closely, reading lots of articles each week and everyone literally picks ANY OTHER player other than Russ when they have a good game. It’s a new flavor of the week every time for the pundits. 22/1 with a near 70% completion for Russ and has been consistent all season, but because Lamar Jackson just had a good game he’s the new front runner per an article I just read.
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  • Well Trivia buffs, Wilson has won two Championships and been to two Super Bowls and one MLS Championship. MVP is nice but Champion may be better since he can share it with his wife.
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  • Looks like Wilson is now out of the MVP race. Even if Wilson has a big game tonight, next week Lamar Jackson vs Deshawn Watson. Whoever wins that will be the MVP leader.
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  • One game at a time. Win and look real good - then keep the faith. The flame is still alive!
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  • Gotta outdo this Lamar Jackson vs Texans performance. Yikes!
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  • I know Lamar has become the new Andrew Luck and we're not allowed to admit that he's good, but damn, another great performance going against another good team. Lamar vs Russ could be fun down the stretch.
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  • Kind of look at it this way, you like looking at Marilyn Monroe versus Audrey Hepburn more, but as a actor you have to go with Audrey.

    Everyone likes what the see with Jackson, and it's working right now. The stuff that isn't flashy with Wilson is more refined and much more reliable.
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  • Lets look at the stats I will estimate for Jackson base don today's performance

    Wilson 2737 passing yards, 68.5 complt%, 8.4 ypa, 23 tds, 2 ints, 114.9 Qb rating, 256 rushing yards, 3 tds

    Jackson 2289g passing yards, 66.4 complt%, 8.1 ypa, 19tds, 5 ints, 103.4 qb rating, 702 rushign yards, 6 tds


    So by stats they are kind of close. So then it will come down to how you see them. For me I then look at schedule difficulty and consistency.

    Sea hawks had a top 5 hardest schedule, Baltimore 18th

    Then consistency

    Wilson has had 8 games with a QB rating over 100, 9 over 85, 1 below 85, 1 below 70, 0 below 60
    Jackson has had 5 games over 100, 6 over 85, 4 below 85, 2 below 70, 1 below 60

    So for me while the stats are kind of close, the difficulty and consistency goes to Wilson.

    That said even if Wilson keep it up Jackson will win, he is east cast, he is the shinny new toy, and he is more exciting than Wilson, and gets more play on the networks than Wilson. Also, their team destroys people while are style makes us barely win most games.
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  • Ravens have wins against the Patriots, Seahawks, and Texans. Not like they havn't been tested. When you win six in a row, it's about a lot more than being the "shiny new toy". In recent years, the vet players have won more than the young guys anyway. Four of the past six have been older than Russ is now.
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  • Rat wrote:Ravens have wins against the Patriots, Seahawks, and Texans. Not like they havn't been tested. When you win six in a row, it's about a lot more than being the "shiny new toy". In recent years, the vet players have won more than the young guys anyway. Four of the past six have been older than Russ is now.



    Lol does kot changebhon being the shiny new toy is not part of it. Also we have big wins also.
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  • Rat wrote:
    John63 wrote:Sea hawks had a top 5 hardest schedule, Baltimore 18th


    Do you have a link showing the Seahawks have had a top-5 hardest schedule?

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/rankin ... h-by-other 14th according to this one.

    http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/streng ... hedule.php 19th according to this one.

    Those were the first two that came up on my google search. Maybe some others rate it much harder for some reason.


    The problem is you looking at as of today, were were they at the. Beginning of the year. As to link, it was said on ESPN radio a couple of days ago.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    John63 wrote:Sea hawks had a top 5 hardest schedule, Baltimore 18th


    Do you have a link showing the Seahawks have had a top-5 hardest schedule?

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/rankin ... h-by-other 14th according to this one.

    http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/streng ... hedule.php 19th according to this one.

    Those were the first two that came up on my google search. Maybe some others rate it much harder for some reason.


    The problem is you looking at as of today, were were they at the. Beginning of the year. As to link, it was said on ESPN radio a couple of days ago.


    I'm not finding a single site showing we've played a top 5 hardest schedule based on how the teams we have played so far have performed. So, you don't have one that says otherwise?
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  • John63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Ravens have wins against the Patriots, Seahawks, and Texans. Not like they havn't been tested. When you win six in a row, it's about a lot more than being the "shiny new toy". In recent years, the vet players have won more than the young guys anyway. Four of the past six have been older than Russ is now.



    Lol does kot changebhon being the shiny new toy is not part of it. Also we have big wins also.


    Our second biggest win was against a 5-4 Rams team, and we needed their normally reliable kicker to miss a 41-yarder. Better hope they win tonight or we're down to just one win against a team with a winning record.
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  • Rat wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Ravens have wins against the Patriots, Seahawks, and Texans. Not like they havn't been tested. When you win six in a row, it's about a lot more than being the "shiny new toy". In recent years, the vet players have won more than the young guys anyway. Four of the past six have been older than Russ is now.



    Lol does kot changebhon being the shiny new toy is not part of it. Also we have big wins also.


    Our second biggest win was against a 5-4 Rams team, and we needed their normally reliable kicker to miss a 41-yarder. Better hope they win tonight or we're down to just one win against a team with a winning record.


    I don't need to hope anything the FACT is Wilson has better passing numbers period.
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  • Listening to the hype machine today it sounds like Wilson would need to be absolutely perfect every play of every game in order to even have a shot at the MVP.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:Listening to the hype machine today it sounds like Wilson would need to be absolutely perfect every play of every game in order to even have a shot at the MVP.



    And there lies the big issue, due to location, time we play, Jackson being the shinny new thing, etc it will be tough for Wilson. Thats said we will see.
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  • Please, Jackson is frontrunner for MvP. Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses? Has Jackson? Oh wait, we saw Jackson completely destroy that Patriot D secondary.

    Wilson needs to one up Jackson.
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  • Mizak wrote:Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses?


    Literally in his last game.
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  • Mizak wrote:Please, Jackson is frontrunner for MvP. Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses? Has Jackson? Oh wait, we saw Jackson completely destroy that Patriot D secondary.

    Wilson needs to one up Jackson.


    FYI Wilson just beat SF a top 2 defense. NO is top 5, So thats 2 LOL

    Now if we go by defensive DVOA then Wilson has faced SF, Pit, LAR, NO all top 10 thats 4, meanwhile Jackson has faced NE, Pit, thats onlly 2

    FYI I am not sure 163 yards passing is destroying a secondary, LOL

    Again lets look at the facts

    Wilson 2737 passing yards, 68.5 complt%, 8.4 ypa, 23 tds, 2 ints, 114.9 Qb rating, 256 rushing yards, 3 tds

    Jackson 2258 passing yards, 66.4 complt%, 8.1 ypa, 19tds, 5 ints, 103.4 qb rating, 702 rushign yards, 6 tds


    Wilson has had 8 games with a QB rating over 100, 9 over 85, 1 below 85, 1 below 70, 0 below 60
    Jackson has had 5 games over 100, 6 over 85, 4 below 85, 2 below 70, 1 below 60



    The numbers are close but it comes down to consistency Wilson ha sit. That said again East coast, shinny new thing, etc etc.


    Amazing how much different it looks with all the facts Ahh.
    Last edited by John63 on Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Rat wrote:
    Mizak wrote:Has Wilson faced any Top 10 defenses?


    Literally in his last game.


    In correct he has faced 2 and by DVOA he has faced 4.
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