What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?

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  • Shoot, I don't think he's going to get it. But it's nice that he's in the conversation, that means he's ballin' and the Hawks are winning.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • It's a Mahomes world and we are living in it.

    Russ may have to accept his fate as Dominique Wilkins to Mahome's Michael Jordan.

    Being an exceptional arm talent in a very QB friendly offensive system gives Mahomes the leg up on every QB in the league right now. Just as Brady's winning percentage was padded by having the best coach in league history runnning the X's and O's.

    Unfortunately no media person is nuanced enough to separate the system from the player and analyse beyond first gen stats.
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  • Mad Dog wrote:It's a Mahomes world and we are living in it.

    Russ may have to accept his fate as Dominique Wilkins to Mahome's Michael Jordan.

    Being an exceptional arm talent in a very QB friendly offensive system gives Mahomes the leg up on every QB in the league right now. Just as Brady's winning percentage was padded by having the best coach in league history runnning the X's and O's.

    Unfortunately no media person is nuanced enough to separate the system from the player and analyse beyond first gen stats.



    Or he could just keep doing what he is doing and see what happens. Given the media is starting to catch on
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  • Mad Dog wrote:It's a Mahomes world and we are living in it.

    Russ may have to accept his fate as Dominique Wilkins to Mahome's Michael Jordan.

    Being an exceptional arm talent in a very QB friendly offensive system gives Mahomes the leg up on every QB in the league right now. Just as Brady's winning percentage was padded by having the best coach in league history runnning the X's and O's.

    Unfortunately no media person is nuanced enough to separate the system from the player and analyse beyond first gen stats.


    Wilson as Wilkins & Mahomes as Jordan? yeesh How about Mahomes is 80s Jordan & Wilson as 90s Jordan for comparison sake. Its still way too early, i see Mahomes more as Vince Carter and Wilson as Magic Johnson.
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  • What would it take for Russ to win MVP? How about a healthy O-line?
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • Been thinking about it, The biggest road block for him winning it is not Mahomes. It is PC. Point in case we are down 2 starting oline. For PC that means be even more conservative. PC is the biggest road block by far. We know Wilson can put up the numbers if he is given the chance, but we also know PC at some point will hold back to much.
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  • To which I say, who cares?

    If it leads to wins, so be it.
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  • McGruff wrote:To which I say, who cares?

    If it leads to wins, so be it.


    I guess if you are good with 1 and done when we could be doing more don't worry about it. I dont see this as simply MVP or not, I see this as, as long as Wilson is in the hunt that means the offense is not predictable, which means we have a better chance of being more than 1 and done.
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  • So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.
    Year of The Hawk
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    Hey mahomes was 19 for 35 54% 273 3tds and 1 int , -1 rushing and qb rating of 96. You need to remember its mahomes so only yards and td count.

    I mean Wilson was 23 for 33 69% 295 yards, 2ids, another running and 31 yards rushing, 0 ints and 118 rating but some on this board will say he is still better.
    John63
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    Mahomes is good. I don't see anyone in this thread saying he should be MVP over Russ.
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    they are still back pedalling quietly, waiting for the big I told you so...same crap w Newton, kap, Griffin, luck, Winston, dak, carr, and Wentz's saying these guys were better than Wilson. Time after time he has proven them all wrong.
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  • Mahomes may be the greatest ever. Not yet though. But who anoints someone other worldy after a season and a half. We are living in such a fantasy football world now.
    Year of The Hawk
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  • rcaido wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    they are still back pedalling quietly, waiting for the big I told you so...same crap w Newton, kap, Griffin, luck, Winston, dak, carr, and Wentz's saying these guys were better than Wilson. Time after time he has proven them all wrong.


    You're acting like Mahomes has fallen flat on his face. He threw for over 5000 yards and 50 TDs as a first year starter, leading his team to a 12-4 record and the No. 1 seed in the AFC Playoffs. He has played well this year as well (leads the NFL in passing yards and is tied for first in TD passes), albeit not as well as Russ, but who is?

    Mahomes is damn good. Admitting that is no indictment on the guy we are fortunate to have.
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  • Rat wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    Mahomes is good. I don't see anyone in this thread saying he should be MVP over Russ.


    Ahh you should read it all. There are few who have said it and that Mahome is way ahead of every other QB, to include Wilson.
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  • MontanaHawk05
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  • Rat wrote:
    rcaido wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.


    they are still back pedalling quietly, waiting for the big I told you so...same crap w Newton, kap, Griffin, luck, Winston, dak, carr, and Wentz's saying these guys were better than Wilson. Time after time he has proven them all wrong.


    You're acting like Mahomes has fallen flat on his face. He threw for over 5000 yards and 50 TDs as a first year starter, leading his team to a 12-4 record and the No. 1 seed in the AFC Playoffs. He has played well this year as well (leads the NFL in passing yards and is tied for first in TD passes), albeit not as well as Russ, but who is?

    Mahomes is damn good. Admitting that is no indictment on the guy we are fortunate to have.


    No one is debating he is good or not. Just that he is not a lock for mvp or way better than everyone else like some here have said.
    Last edited by John63 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • It takes one game to tank a MVP run, Wilson is doing well, best time to talk about this is really around week 12 when games become live or die for playoff position and jockeying.
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  • chris98251 wrote:It takes one game to tank a MVP run, Wilson is doing well, best time to talk about this is really around week 12 when games become live or die for playoff position and jockeying.


    Unless you are the favorite. Then you get a few mulligans.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:


    More likely it demonstrates what this offense could be without Pete's interference. If I were Wilson, I would fry every in helmet communicator the Seahawks own.
    Last edited by JustTheTip on Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • As of right now, Wilson is THE MVP, bar none. Lots of games to be played but he still looks as good as he did his first couple of years in the league.

    Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are 2-4 team right now. He can take the team on his back and has done so, this season. Regardless of a ring or not.

    Not sure why the league or fans don't give the proper respect to Wilson. He is looking like a 1st ballot HOF QB.
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  • PackerNation wrote:As of right now, Wilson is THE MVP, bar none. Lots of games to be played but he still looks as good as he did his first couple of years in the league.

    Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are 2-4 team right now. He can take the team on his back and has done so, this season. Regardless of a ring or not.

    Not sure why the league or fans don't give the proper respect to Wilson. He is looking like a 1st ballot HOF QB.


    they'd be LUCKY to have a single win. Wilson is the reason this team has ANY success. PC is the absolute worst X and O coach in the modern NFL. He is probably great at coaching guys up, motivating, etc but on Gameday he leaves a lot to be desired. This challenge Pct (2 of 7) is terrible. Doesn't really understand complex clock mgmt moments. Russ is the Man and will win the MVP. no team is more dependent on one player.
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  • HawkerD wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:As of right now, Wilson is THE MVP, bar none. Lots of games to be played but he still looks as good as he did his first couple of years in the league.

    Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are 2-4 team right now. He can take the team on his back and has done so, this season. Regardless of a ring or not.

    Not sure why the league or fans don't give the proper respect to Wilson. He is looking like a 1st ballot HOF QB.


    they'd be LUCKY to have a single win. Wilson is the reason this team has ANY success. PC is the absolute worst X and O coach in the modern NFL. He is probably great at coaching guys up, motivating, etc but on Gameday he leaves a lot to be desired. This challenge Pct (2 of 7) is terrible. Doesn't really understand complex clock mgmt moments. Russ is the Man and will win the MVP. no team is more dependent on one player.


    I can't agree that Pete is that bad. You don't have a career like Pete has had by being that bad at the X's and O's aspect of football. You don't win a SB by being bad, either. he is clearly among the elite in the NFL and was at the college level too.

    Sorry, but I disagree. You may want a change at HC and if so, who do you want to lead the hawks at this juncture? Pete seems to be a great fit in Seattle.
    PackerNation
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  • HawkerD wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:As of right now, Wilson is THE MVP, bar none. Lots of games to be played but he still looks as good as he did his first couple of years in the league.

    Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are 2-4 team right now. He can take the team on his back and has done so, this season. Regardless of a ring or not.

    Not sure why the league or fans don't give the proper respect to Wilson. He is looking like a 1st ballot HOF QB.


    they'd be LUCKY to have a single win. Wilson is the reason this team has ANY success. PC is the absolute worst X and O coach in the modern NFL. He is probably great at coaching guys up, motivating, etc but on Gameday he leaves a lot to be desired. This challenge Pct (2 of 7) is terrible. Doesn't really understand complex clock mgmt moments. Russ is the Man and will win the MVP. no team is more dependent on one player.


    As frustrating as the gameplan looks sometimes, and as much as I yell at the tv saying "what the hell are you thinking", Wilson wouldn't be breaking records and playing like an MVP if Pete was the worst X and O coach. I think that is just simply untrue and his approach that seems so frustrating has produced more wins than many of the proclaimed X and O masterminds.

    Don't get me wrong, he has plenty of warts, but I think the whole "Pete is not an X and O guy" gets tossed around way too much especially considering the results. Perhaps he is a damn good X and O coach, and deliberately runs certain defense and offensive schemes that he feels give the best chance of winning.
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  • "What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?"

    An MVP season finish!
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  • HawkerD wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:As of right now, Wilson is THE MVP, bar none. Lots of games to be played but he still looks as good as he did his first couple of years in the league.

    Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are 2-4 team right now. He can take the team on his back and has done so, this season. Regardless of a ring or not.

    Not sure why the league or fans don't give the proper respect to Wilson. He is looking like a 1st ballot HOF QB.


    they'd be LUCKY to have a single win. Wilson is the reason this team has ANY success. PC is the absolute worst X and O coach in the modern NFL. He is probably great at coaching guys up, motivating, etc but on Gameday he leaves a lot to be desired. This challenge Pct (2 of 7) is terrible. Doesn't really understand complex clock mgmt moments. Russ is the Man and will win the MVP. no team is more dependent on one player.

    Just curious, what % constitutes a good challenge rate, in your opinion?
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  • HawkerD wrote:This challenge Pct (2 of 7) is terrible.

    Do you know how two successful challenges stacks against the rest of the NFL?

    HawkerD wrote:Wilson is the reason this team has ANY success. PC is the absolute worst X and O coach in the modern NFL.

    I honestly don't follow this thought process. Wilson is having a fantastic season and rather than look at that as a huge win for the collective group the reaction is somehow to assume he is doing it in spite of everybody else rather than in coordination with them. I guess it's just a way of talking him up further which is laudable but silly.

    You should also know that Pete is highly regarded as a defensive X and O coach. There's a reason why teams keep hiring off our defense trying (and failing) to get their own version of him and it isn't because they want to copy his rah-rah motivational approach.
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  • Was watching ESPN this morning, and they're said it's a "Four way race between McCaffrey, Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson. And that McCaffrey leads the race." LOL

    So Mahomes was far and away leading the MVP race, it wasn't close. But now that Mahomes has come back down to earth, it's "close" and McCaffrey is up there. As I've argued before, Wilson is getting his respect but I'm not seeing the undisputed, wall to wall coverage of love I've saw with Mahomes and that I've seen with Manning, Cam Newton, etc. in the past.

    And I'm sorry but Pete has made some objectively bad coaching decisions lately, and our defense has given up a lot in spots. It is not unreasonable to argue Russell is 80% of the reason we're 5-1. We also have a very young team.
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:Was watching ESPN this morning, and they're said it's a "Four way race between McCaffrey, Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson. And that McCaffrey leads the race." LOL

    So Mahomes was far and away leading the MVP race, it wasn't close. But now that Mahomes has come back down to earth, it's "close" and McCaffrey is up there. As I've argued before, Wilson is getting his respect but I'm not seeing the undisputed, wall to wall coverage of love I've saw with Mahomes and that I've seen with Manning, Cam Newton, etc. in the past.

    And I'm sorry but Pete has made some objectively bad coaching decisions lately, and our defense has given up a lot in spots. It is not unreasonable to argue Russell is 80% of the reason we're 5-1. We also have a very young team.



    McCaffrey he of the 22 carries and 31 yards? LOL

    I guess for ESPN as long as it is not Wilson they are happy.

    Lets see

    McCaffery
    618 yards (1st), 4.9 ypa (10), Tds(3)

    Wilson 1704 yards (7), YPA 9(2nd), TDs(2), Td/INT (1), QB Rating (1) Complt% (2)

    Mahomes 2104 (1), YPA (1), Tds (2), td/int (2), Qb rating (2), Complt% (21)

    Watson 1644(11), YPA(5), TDs(6), Td/Int (12), Qb rating (4), Complt% (8)

    Seems to me it should be

    Wilson
    McCaffery
    Watson
    Mahomes
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  • Russ is balling. Most important is the wins and wins are what i want most as i am sure russ is same way. Id rather have a SB chip then russ winning mvp as would russ.

    I cant say same for some of you.
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  • @John63 Yep. And ESPN all day has been debating who's a better MVP candidate, Mahomes or Watson. No mention of Wilson lol. It's pathetic
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:@John63 Yep. And ESPN all day has been debating who's a better MVP candidate, Mahomes or Watson. No mention of Wilson lol. It's pathetic



    Of course you need to remember back when Wilson was drafted the ESPN talking heads said he would never make it. They dont like to admit they are wrong.
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  • Was just coming on to post about him being the favorite among oddsmakers.

    But, in term of number of bets placed, he ranks outside the top 12, behind the likes of Baker Mayfield (shrug), and Mitch Trubisky. Yes, Mitch f...... Trubisky.

    Facepalm.
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  • Image

    Degree of difficulty.

    I will continue to hammer this point home. No one does what Wilson does consistently. Year in and year out, behind horrible pass pro.

    You're not supposed to put up those kind of numbers behind a 29th ranked Pass Blocking Unit! :shock:




    Insane.


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  • From NFL.com.

    It's too bad Russell continues to be ignored by the national media.
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  • The rest . . .
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  • Fade wrote:Image

    Degree of difficulty.

    I will continue to hammer this point home. No one does what Wilson does consistently. Year in and year out, behind horrible pass pro.

    You're not supposed to put up those kind of numbers behind a 29th ranked Pass Blocking Unit! :shock:




    Insane.




    And yet, some will still insist that Russ is too short, too white and merely an elite game manager. Sigh


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  • toffee wrote:And yet, some will still insist that Russ is too short, too white and merely an elite game manager. Sigh


    When was the last time someone called Russell too short? 2012? I only see it as a punchline on here.
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  • Mahomes injury could be serious. Sitting out half a game or more will be a big setback for him. I think this may end up coming down to Wilson vs Watson.
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  • toffee wrote:
    Fade wrote:Image

    Degree of difficulty.

    I will continue to hammer this point home. No one does what Wilson does consistently. Year in and year out, behind horrible pass pro.

    You're not supposed to put up those kind of numbers behind a 29th ranked Pass Blocking Unit! :shock:




    Insane.




    And yet, some will still insist that Russ is too short, too white and merely an elite game manager. Sigh

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Yeah, not sure where you are getting that from.

    Are you still using Alta Vista to search the internet?
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  • McGruff wrote:From NFL.com.

    It's too bad Russell continues to be ignored by the national media.



    Mahomes gets round the clock coverage because of his play: “Well it’s because he’s playing so well!”

    Wilson gets 30% of the coverage despite outplaying every other MVP candidate: “Look! Wilson is getting national attention! Why are you complaining?”

    Meanwhile, while you’re trying really hard to win an argument, the media is busy talking about whether Watson, McCaffrey, and Wentz deserve time be in the mvp discussion. Funny how that argument didn’t exist when Mahomes was in the lead.

    By the way, how much ESPN coverage of Wilson have you seen lately?
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  • Rat wrote:
    toffee wrote:And yet, some will still insist that Russ is too short, too white and merely an elite game manager. Sigh


    When was the last time someone called Russell too short? 2012? I only see it as a punchline on here.



    As recent as last year. When people attributed his imperfect play to his height.

    I actually think it’s funny that someone can be ignored and dismissed for years, and as soon as that person does something that can’t be ignored, we want to rewrite history as if it was always obvious
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  • Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.

    So much this! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
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  • Seahwkgal wrote:
    Year of The Hawk wrote:So where is the golden child now? I am not anti Mahomes but I am tired of people putting the new kids up on high pedestals above players who have actually performed at a high level consistently for over a longer period of time than one season.

    So much this! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:



    Well the ability to stay on the field is important too.
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  • John63 wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:Was watching ESPN this morning, and they're said it's a "Four way race between McCaffrey, Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson. And that McCaffrey leads the race." LOL

    So Mahomes was far and away leading the MVP race, it wasn't close. But now that Mahomes has come back down to earth, it's "close" and McCaffrey is up there. As I've argued before, Wilson is getting his respect but I'm not seeing the undisputed, wall to wall coverage of love I've saw with Mahomes and that I've seen with Manning, Cam Newton, etc. in the past.

    And I'm sorry but Pete has made some objectively bad coaching decisions lately, and our defense has given up a lot in spots. It is not unreasonable to argue Russell is 80% of the reason we're 5-1. We also have a very young team.



    McCaffrey he of the 22 carries and 31 yards? LOL

    I guess for ESPN as long as it is not Wilson they are happy.

    Lets see

    McCaffery
    618 yards (1st), 4.9 ypa (10), Tds(3)

    Wilson 1704 yards (7), YPA 9(2nd), TDs(2), Td/INT (1), QB Rating (1) Complt% (2)

    Mahomes 2104 (1), YPA (1), Tds (2), td/int (2), Qb rating (2), Complt% (21)

    Watson 1644(11), YPA(5), TDs(6), Td/Int (12), Qb rating (4), Complt% (8)

    Seems to me it should be

    Wilson
    McCaffery
    Watson
    Mahomes


    I think Russ should be #1 as you have, but looking at those stats how in the actual hell do you have Watson above Mahomes?
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  • Wilson might have won it tonight assuming he can keep this up. Mahomes will likely miss at least a few games.
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  • HawkSince87 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:Was watching ESPN this morning, and they're said it's a "Four way race between McCaffrey, Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson. And that McCaffrey leads the race." LOL

    So Mahomes was far and away leading the MVP race, it wasn't close. But now that Mahomes has come back down to earth, it's "close" and McCaffrey is up there. As I've argued before, Wilson is getting his respect but I'm not seeing the undisputed, wall to wall coverage of love I've saw with Mahomes and that I've seen with Manning, Cam Newton, etc. in the past.

    And I'm sorry but Pete has made some objectively bad coaching decisions lately, and our defense has given up a lot in spots. It is not unreasonable to argue Russell is 80% of the reason we're 5-1. We also have a very young team.



    McCaffrey he of the 22 carries and 31 yards? LOL

    I guess for ESPN as long as it is not Wilson they are happy.

    Lets see

    McCaffery
    618 yards (1st), 4.9 ypa (10), Tds(3)

    Wilson 1704 yards (7), YPA 9(2nd), TDs(2), Td/INT (1), QB Rating (1) Complt% (2)

    Mahomes 2104 (1), YPA (1), Tds (2), td/int (2), Qb rating (2), Complt% (21)

    Watson 1644(11), YPA(5), TDs(6), Td/Int (12), Qb rating (4), Complt% (8)

    Seems to me it should be

    Wilson
    McCaffery
    Watson
    Mahomes


    I think Russ should be #1 as you have, but looking at those stats how in the actual hell do you have Watson above Mahomes?



    That was an error Mahomes should have been 3, though as of now 4 is right
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1676
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


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