Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?

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Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 11:09 am

Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 11:30 am
  • Well.........I don't think it was a coincidence that we drafted two MLB's this year, and it wasn't just to add depth to special teams.

    I do think John and Pete want to keep Bobby, especially with how young the defense has gotten the past two years. But this potentially be another Clark situation where the market prices out what we have Bobby's value at.

    So like Clark, yes we can afford it. But WILL we pull the trigger on 17M a year +?

    This is right at the top of what I hate most about sports. Some other idiot GM overpays for players, and it screws every other team trying to negotiate. Thanks Mike Maccagnan, no wonder you got fired.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 11:44 am
  • Yes, they will.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 11:49 am
  • Wagner is key part of the Seahawks team and is part of their plans going forward..

    The team has the cap space next season to sign him to a major contract. The negotiations will continue as to the amount of such a contract but reality is that Wagner is if not the top 4-3 MLB or at least one of the best at his position in pro football and is healthy and engaged with seeing his team succeed.

    Any contract the team and he reach will not involve any side breaking down or capitulating to demands but will involve an agreement between the parties. I believe a deal will get done in time.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 12:04 pm
  • Depends on his health .
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 12:19 pm
  • I could see doing $17 million a year on just a two year contract.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 12:41 pm
  • A smart team does not base an entire top contract on 1 other bad contract made by a GM that got fired over it. :177692: I hope Wagner is smart enough to see that. Pay him equal at maximum, or even 100K over for bragging rights, but 2+ million over would be a kiss of death for a 30 year old LB. Love ya Bobby....but don't be a boob!!
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 12:57 pm
  • At this point we probably can't afford to let him go.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Thu May 23, 2019 12:59 pm
  • They can always tag him as well for less than what he probably wants out of a contract. Actually the Seahawks would be stupid not to. He isnt going anywhere for 3 years regardless unless we trade him.
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  • Does it help or hurt our negotiations with Bobby that he's representing himself?

    He says he's a big boy and can take the nasty back and forth of a contract negotiations, but there's a reason players pay agents to do the dirty work. For not only negotiating the complex ins and outs of the contract, but to absorb the negative things GM's may say trying to get the price down.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Does it help or hurt our negotiations with Bobby that he's representing himself?

    He says he's a big boy and can take the nasty back and forth of a contract negotiations, but there's a reason players pay agents to do the dirty work. For not only negotiating the complex ins and outs of the contract, but to absorb the negative things GM's may say trying to get the price down.

    I think it hurts. Sherm and Okung did that IIRC and both are gone. :229031_shrug:
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  • sutz wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Does it help or hurt our negotiations with Bobby that he's representing himself?

    He says he's a big boy and can take the nasty back and forth of a contract negotiations, but there's a reason players pay agents to do the dirty work. For not only negotiating the complex ins and outs of the contract, but to absorb the negative things GM's may say trying to get the price down.

    I think it hurts. Sherm and Okung did that IIRC and both are gone. :229031_shrug:


    I don't think either was gone because they were trying to negotiate on their own, I think both were gone for different reasons. John and Pete were ready to move on from Okung, and ready to move on from Richard's mouth and overpriced contract to save cap space.
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  • Okung was about money and emphasis, where Sherm and the other defensive players were recipient of such decision making. Sherm was about both injury AND buy in.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Okung was about money and emphasis, where Sherm and the other defensive players were recipient of such decision making. Sherm was about both injury AND buy in.


    For sure, and I do think it probably hurts the player more than the team.

    I get wanting to save the 2% agent fee, but it's hard to imagine Bobby can negotiate a better deal (or even the same deal) as a good agent to make that savings worthwhile. Seems like every player that's tried to do their own negotiations has gotten a bad deal.

    Plus you live in WA Bobby, no income tax. You're already getting more of your contract then you would in CA, NY or other income tax states.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Okung was about money and emphasis, where Sherm and the other defensive players were recipient of such decision making. Sherm was about both injury AND buy in.


    For sure, and I do think it probably hurts the player more than the team.

    I get wanting to save the 2% agent fee, but it's hard to imagine Bobby can negotiate a better deal (or even the same deal) as a good agent to make that savings worthwhile. Seems like every player that's tried to do their own negotiations has gotten a bad deal.

    Plus you live in WA Bobby, no income tax. You're already getting more of your contract then you would in CA, NY or other income tax states.


    I always thought it was in the realm of 10% which being your own agent can be helpful. For 2% it could be worthwhile having an agent. Bobby would likely have his attorney look the deal over to ensure he isn't going to get screwed in some way. But you pay a one time hourly fee for that.
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  • He'll be a Seahawk until he retires
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  • Yes, they can afford to keep Bobby Wagner.

    And yes, Bobby wants Mosley money. I want Mosley money too.

    But the market for LBs is Kuechly, not Mosley. I'm sure Bobby realizes that.

    My guess is he signs a deal in the $13M/yr range with guaranteed money drying up in year 3.
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  • No one is going to give that kind of money to Keuchly. He's one hit away from retirement and in no way sets the market.
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  • Interesting how there is zero bashing of Bobby for wanting to have a top tier contract.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Fri May 24, 2019 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: Stay on topic
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Interesting how there is zero bashing of Bobby for wanting to have a top tier contract. Yet, when Russ did it he was and still is being bashed for it and called "selfish"
    Go Hawks

    First, Bobby Wagner is the best linebacker and arguably the best defensive player on the planet.


    If he really wants Moseley money, he'll get franchised twice. Without that stupid contract, this is probably already done @13-14 APY. But he has every right to want more. He's a better player. Now, the FO has to convince him, not an agent, to take less. Good luck.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Fri May 24, 2019 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: Stay on topic
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  • Screw the Jets for that dumb assed contract. This will never end. Players are simply going to and have said, I want to "beat" that contract.

    Wagner deserves to be paid well but dayum, where does it ever end?
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  • The J-E-T-S have been a punchline for years. Amazing that they paid that guy even close to what he got.
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  • Own The West wrote:Yes, they can afford to keep Bobby Wagner.

    And yes, Bobby wants Mosley money. I want Mosley money too.

    But the market for LBs is Kuechly, not Mosley. I'm sure Bobby realizes that.

    My guess is he signs a deal in the $13M/yr range with guaranteed money drying up in year 3.


    Kuechly was the market, now it's unfortunately Mosely.

    I keep having this argument with people, it doesn't regress, it's next man up. That's how Clark got paid, that's how Russell got paid...........and that's how Bobby's going to get paid.

    He's the best MLB in the league, he's not going to settle for making 4-5M less than Mosley. Again, blame the idiot Jets for setting a ridiculous precedent for absolutely no reason other than they're incompetent. But now it is the precedent.

    My hope is that Bobby will accept less per year but more guaranteed money than Mosely on a longer deal. MLB's can play well into their mid 30's, so no reason Pete and John should shy away from a 5-6 year deal with more guaranteed money and a longer deal so the per year is more cap friendly.
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  • Good point, it's really all about the guarantee for many guys, which makes total sense. So often you hear about a huge deal that in the long run ends up not being even close to what the player gets overall. But getting that huge guarantee changes everything.
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  • If the ridiculous Mosley contract didn't happen Bobby would probably already be signed.

    It really does throw a monkey wrench in to things.

    At this point I would focus on getting Reed signed, and keep the franchise tag open for Bobby. It's a business.
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  • The Problem we have is that their are a lot of Stupid GM's on other teams and Owners that will spend money like Kids in a Penny Candy store for players and it affects the rest of the league skewing balance of position they play.

    I am sure we budget a certain amount for positions and offense and defense, when you get guys like Clark and Wagner that are competing for the next contract with other players and a GM ups the anti by ten million or so from the previous contracts that ripple effect creates roster chaos through out the league as teams have to shuffle to rebalance and rethink who they can sign and resign again.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 11:09 am
  • I think you have to on a shorter term deal- like 3 years. Pay him the top of the market but for a condensed term.

    Bobby is too good to let go at 30. Also, he's such a smart LB, those guys age well. Lastly, he's extremely durable thus far in his career.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 11:18 am
  • lukerguy wrote:I think you have to on a shorter term deal- like 3 years. Pay him the top of the market but for a condensed term.

    Bobby is too good to let go at 30. Also, he's such a smart LB, those guys age well. Lastly, he's extremely durable thus far in his career.


    Why would you condense the term when you can spread out the signing bonus and guaranteed amount for 1-2 more years on a 5-6 year deal?

    I do think this gets done before the season starts. Bobby is the model for what Pete and John want in a player.

    - bought in
    - plays his ass off
    - never complains
    - team leader

    IMO it'd be extremely damaging to the culture of Pete's team to allow Bobby to walk or trade him. It undermines literally everything Pete preaches and wants from his players.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 am
  • No doubt about it. Has always carried himself with class, has never ruffled feathers, total team leader. He has a lot left in the tank. I like the idea of a 4 or 5 year deal where you can spread that bonus out a little. He's the most important player on the D, period. And right up there with Russ as far as importance to the team and leadership. That C on his jersey is there for a reason.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 11:28 am
  • Okung just jumped offsides for including his name in this conversation.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 11:53 am
  • ? another false start.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 12:33 pm
  • Prosise hurt his ankle, wrist, and hamstring just reading this.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Fri May 24, 2019 12:59 pm
  • HawkGA wrote:I could see doing $17 million a year on just a two year contract.


    Why would he agree to that?
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  • This will sound strange, but Bobby is unlikely to get C. J. Mosley's contract on the open market. The guaranteed portion of Mosley's contract will expire before he's the same age as Bobby is right now. Realistically, a smart agent would tell Bobby to take a front-loaded contract that puts him higher than Mosley in the short term with less APY overall.
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  • They can afford it quite comfortably. They have the most projected 2020 cap space in the NFL.


    The actual question should be, is it worth it?



    For me I'm still salty over not signing him to a 6 yr extension. These 4 years deals Seattle has done are stupid, and just end up costing you more money. He should still be on the books for 2 more years at $10M per.

    I will keep pointing this out every chance I get, as I still can't get over how dumb it is to sign a perennial all-pro in his mid twenties to just a 4 yr extension. The Seahawks do a great job overall managing their cap, but this is the area where they must correct going forward, or this will continue to happen. First Thomas, now Wagner.

    Ultimately I would not extend him. I would instead pursue a Jarran Reed 6 yr extension. Then use the Franchise Tag on Wagner next off-season, and look to trade him, or let him play out the season, and get a 3rd round comp pick, which ever value is greater.
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  • I totally get your angst about 4 year deals and agree. However, it takes 2 to come to a deal and perhaps Wagner only wanted to sign for 4 so he could get a bigger shot of guaranteed money.

    The negotiations on these deals are rarely publicized so it's hard to fairly comment. 4 seasons ago was when the cap crunch began for the team and it's hard to know if the team wanted to make a longer deal than 4 years with Wagner.

    Suspect the team will sign Wagner and franchise Reed but only if he has a good season this year.
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  • Rat wrote:
    HawkGA wrote:I could see doing $17 million a year on just a two year contract.


    Why would he agree to that?


    To get the $17 million per year, presumably. Make it fully guaranteed. Might be enticing, but if I'm the Seahawks, I'm not risking the salary gap beyond 2, maybe 3 years.
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  • Fade wrote:They can afford it quite comfortably. They have the most projected 2020 cap space in the NFL.


    The actual question should be, is it worth it?



    For me I'm still salty over not signing him to a 6 yr extension. These 4 years deals Seattle has done are stupid, and just end up costing you more money. He should still be on the books for 2 more years at $10M per.

    I will keep pointing this out every chance I get, as I still can't get over how dumb it is to sign a perennial all-pro in his mid twenties to just a 4 yr extension. The Seahawks do a great job overall managing their cap, but this is the area where they must correct going forward, or this will continue to happen. First Thomas, now Wagner.

    Ultimately I would not extend him. I would instead pursue a Jarran Reed 6 yr extension. Then use the Franchise Tag on Wagner next off-season, and look to trade him, or let him play out the season, and get a 3rd round comp pick, which ever value is greater.


    I agree with this. I love Bobby but what we did with Clark was Franchise changing move. Bobby could net us multiple picks and save so much. I'm a big BBK believer and Barton may be legit too. I think good LB's can be had so cheap and Bobby may hit a wall or have a major injury any time. He is great but not sure he is Ray Lewis great and KJ who has been almost as good is less than half the price.

    I want Bobby to stay but if he wants to be the top MLB at age I will not be mad of JS moves on.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Sat May 25, 2019 11:02 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:They can afford it quite comfortably. They have the most projected 2020 cap space in the NFL.


    The actual question should be, is it worth it?



    For me I'm still salty over not signing him to a 6 yr extension. These 4 years deals Seattle has done are stupid, and just end up costing you more money. He should still be on the books for 2 more years at $10M per.

    I will keep pointing this out every chance I get, as I still can't get over how dumb it is to sign a perennial all-pro in his mid twenties to just a 4 yr extension. The Seahawks do a great job overall managing their cap, but this is the area where they must correct going forward, or this will continue to happen. First Thomas, now Wagner.

    Ultimately I would not extend him. I would instead pursue a Jarran Reed 6 yr extension. Then use the Franchise Tag on Wagner next off-season, and look to trade him, or let him play out the season, and get a 3rd round comp pick, which ever value is greater.


    I agree with this. I love Bobby but what we did with Clark was Franchise changing move. Bobby could net us multiple picks and save so much. I'm a big BBK believer and Barton may be legit too. I think good LB's can be had so cheap and Bobby may hit a wall or have a major injury any time. He is great but not sure he is Ray Lewis great and KJ who has been almost as good is less than half the price.

    I want Bobby to stay but if he wants to be the top MLB at age I will not be mad of JS moves on.


    Wright is a injury away from Retirement at this point, in fact he may not make it thru the season with his re occurring Knee issue. Wagner is at a point I think that he is do to start getting the Dings that players get with a lot of Mileage, we have seen it over and over. Sherman, Kam, Avril, Thomas, Bennett, Wright, Baldwin all that nucleus of a defense and key person on offense. They had a lot of extra playing time with our playoff games. More physical also. That piles up and odds catch up with you.

    As a Business you have to hedge your bets on a big contract and longevity. Wagner wants one long because this may be his last one, Team wants short but will pay good dollars I am thinking.
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Re: Can They Afford top Keep Bobby Wagner?
Sat May 25, 2019 12:15 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:They can afford it quite comfortably. They have the most projected 2020 cap space in the NFL.


    The actual question should be, is it worth it?



    For me I'm still salty over not signing him to a 6 yr extension. These 4 years deals Seattle has done are stupid, and just end up costing you more money. He should still be on the books for 2 more years at $10M per.

    I will keep pointing this out every chance I get, as I still can't get over how dumb it is to sign a perennial all-pro in his mid twenties to just a 4 yr extension. The Seahawks do a great job overall managing their cap, but this is the area where they must correct going forward, or this will continue to happen. First Thomas, now Wagner.

    Ultimately I would not extend him. I would instead pursue a Jarran Reed 6 yr extension. Then use the Franchise Tag on Wagner next off-season, and look to trade him, or let him play out the season, and get a 3rd round comp pick, which ever value is greater.


    I agree with this. I love Bobby but what we did with Clark was Franchise changing move. Bobby could net us multiple picks and save so much. I'm a big BBK believer and Barton may be legit too. I think good LB's can be had so cheap and Bobby may hit a wall or have a major injury any time. He is great but not sure he is Ray Lewis great and KJ who has been almost as good is less than half the price.

    I want Bobby to stay but if he wants to be the top MLB at age I will not be mad of JS moves on.


    Wright is a injury away from Retirement at this point, in fact he may not make it thru the season with his re occurring Knee issue. Wagner is at a point I think that he is do to start getting the Dings that players get with a lot of Mileage, we have seen it over and over. Sherman, Kam, Avril, Thomas, Bennett, Wright, Baldwin all that nucleus of a defense and key person on offense. They had a lot of extra playing time with our playoff games. More physical also. That piles up and odds catch up with you.

    As a Business you have to hedge your bets on a big contract and longevity. Wagner wants one long because this may be his last one, Team wants short but will pay good dollars I am thinking.

    That's kind of how I view the situation. I'm sure Seattle would gladly give Bobby a raise this year and 18+ for two aditional years, but I can't see them garuanteeing anything significant past 2 years.
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  • Best middle backer in the league, but 17 million is steep.

    I would sign him, but make about a third of it guaranteed and only get him to 17 million through incentives. Basically, if he plays like the best in the business, with the numbers and accolades to back it up, he gets the big payday. Otherwise, he gets high end journeyman salary.
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  • If all you have to offer is year to year, two year contracts...you're going to end up with players that fit those terms (not a Bobby Wagner).

    Hope the Hawks make a respectable offer. If they don't and he bounces, no one to blame but themselves.
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  • I don't think the Hawks have to jump to a decision. All the data isn't in. The Hawks could have him for two years. In two years Barton may be ready to go. Let a 32 year old MLB test the market in 2021. If he doesn't like his offers the Hawks could possibly get him back. He could demand a trade before 2021. If Barton is ready they can make that happen.
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  • Comforting comments from KJ but this IS the NFL. It sure is going to be an interesting story to watch.
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  • Sure they can afford him ..Look at our huge cap space next year and the cap keeps going up so we
    can spend it like crazy :sarcasm_on:
    Seriously we can afford him RW is only getting 19 million this year and with Kam off
    the books..I'm sure we can cover two years easy ..
    Give him a four year deal ..BWags is the best and deserves it..
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  • IndyHawk wrote:Sure they can afford him ..Look at our huge cap space next year and the cap keeps going up so we
    can spend it like crazy :sarcasm_on:
    Seriously we can afford him RW is only getting 19 million this year and with Kam off
    the books..I'm sure we can cover two years easy ..
    Give him a four year deal ..BWags is the best and deserves it..


    Agreed. This isn't a FA coming off an injury. He's not a guy that had one great season a few years ago and the Hawks are looking at transitioning him into a productive player.

    It's Bobby Wagner. How does one even contemplate NOT giving him a multi-year deal after his consistent performance and dedication to this team?

    Same for the RW naysayers. Inject some realism back into the equation. You keep guys like this.

    Now if you're a Giants fan....disregard.
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  • It's scary. He's 28. He looks like there is no doubt he will be an all-pro caliber player for 2-3 years. But that's the thing about 30 year olds. They just get a weird random injury, kind of don't make it back to their level that year, and then their play drops off, seemingly instantly. It's a game of roulette the Seahawks have lost over and over again. There have been a lot of great MLBs (Urlacher, Thomas etc.) who were all-world at 29 and off the cliff at 30. I will not give an opinion either way here. I don't envy them. My thought is two franchise tags. He's in your control until 31. But that will piss him off. He's your leader and you want him IN. Also, we are down to Russ, KJ and Bobby from the Super Bowl team. KJ will be gone soon. Are you perhaps well served to just clean house and start totally fresh? Let someone else lead the next Super Bowl run?
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  • They had better. Few players have deserved it more than Bobby to be able to retire a Seahawk. His experience and work ethic (apart from his ROH and HOF play) will serve our future LB's very well.
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