How stout will our front 7 be in 2019?

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How stout will our front 7 be in 2019?
Thu May 09, 2019 10:27 pm
  • Comming off a wonderful draft where we made whole season changes to our WR core and strengthed our defensive back field,and now have our DE position filled out, I'm feeling a whole lot better about our chances in 2019.

    We have two young DT's that go better then 340 lbs, which tells me that we are getting serious about stopping the run. This team that JS and PC have assimilable could be they finest work thus far as GM and coach.

    I never worry about our offense with Russ running the show, but it takes a stout defense to get to the top.

    I was just wondring how do you feel about how far our defense can take us this year?
    Cheers
    Last edited by Chawker on Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Chawker
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Re: How stout will are front 7 be in 2019?
Thu May 09, 2019 10:51 pm
  • Our LB corps now looks amazing, but I don't think they are finished adding veterans to the defensive line. We have 15 players competing for 9 spots and will likely add more between now and cut downs. I also wouldn't be surprised if we traded a late pick next year for somebody.
    AgentDib
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  • Collier,Reed,Woods,Ansah
    Wright,Wagner,Kendricks

    Now I'm liken what we got! :0190l:
    Chawker
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  • AgentDib wrote:Our LB corps now looks amazing, but I don't think they are finished adding veterans to the defensive line. We have 15 players competing for 9 spots and will likely add more between now and cut downs. I also wouldn't be surprised if we traded a late pick next year for somebody.


    I agree with this. I don't see them relying on a rookie or 2nd year guy at the DE spot opposite Ansah. Not as the starter at least without beating out a veteran. That's not a slight on Collier or Green at all, it's just lineman don't normally realize their potential until the 3rd year. I expect a veteran 5T to be brought in for competition at the very least. McCoy would be amazing if they could get him, or a guy like Wilkerson would be a good fit imo.
    DJrmb
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  • Meder and Woods are both stout run defenders. If McCoy gets cut I can see the Hawks chasing him. Other than that the DL looks like it is ready for camp.
    Seafan
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  • Seafan wrote:Meder and Woods are both stout run defenders. If McCoy gets cut I can see the Hawks chasing him. Other than that the DL looks like it is ready for camp.


    Who do you play at 5T DE opposite Ansah then?
    DJrmb
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  • DJrmb wrote:
    Seafan wrote:Meder and Woods are both stout run defenders. If McCoy gets cut I can see the Hawks chasing him. Other than that the DL looks like it is ready for camp.


    Who do you play at 5T DE opposite Ansah then?


    Jefferson, Naz or Green
    Mad Dog
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  • DL -2018

    Starters
    Frank Clark (Replaced by Ansah)
    Jarran Reed
    Shamar Stephen (Replaced by Woods)
    Dion Jordan (Replaced by Collier)

    Rotational players
    Jacob Martin
    Quinton Jefferson
    Poona Ford

    On roster
    Naz Jones
    Raheem Green
    Branden Jackson

    The starters are set. We can add Marsh to the rotation.

    That leaves 2 spots on the DL and these guys fighting for it.
    Naz Jones
    Raheem Green
    Branden Jackson
    Jamie Meder
    Demarcus Christmas
    Bryon Mone
    Jay-Tee Tiuli

    Instill think the team may add another DT and Edge player because signing a vet doesn’t mean he’ll be on the 53...remember Tom Johnson?
    truehawksfan
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  • It has been said numerously and often cliche, the defensive front 4 has a lot of potential.

    Reed did not have breakout season until they let him play more.

    That's always the case, you have to play them in order to develop them and see what they can do.

    I think Reed can be that example for the younger players.

    Ansah sincerely seems like he is grateful and motivated to show what he can do. This bodes well.

    If Collier is the player Carroll thinks he can be, this front 4 can be "surprising" to other teams.

    I hope Green can take his game to the next level, that's what I'm hoping to see with more snaps!

    We'll see but I am very excited for this season, more so than I was last year.

    Let's do it! I feel the Seattle defense is underrated and will "outperform" their "expectations."

    If so, you really need to commend the coaching staff.

    I'm excited!

    Go Hawks!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:
    Seafan wrote:Meder and Woods are both stout run defenders. If McCoy gets cut I can see the Hawks chasing him. Other than that the DL looks like it is ready for camp.


    Who do you play at 5T DE opposite Ansah then?


    Jefferson, Naz or Green


    That group doesn't give me confidence. All of them are decent rotation guys but right now I don't see a starter in any of them.
    DJrmb
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  • truehawksfan wrote:DL -2018

    Starters
    Frank Clark (Replaced by Ansah)
    Jarran Reed
    Shamar Stephen (Replaced by Woods)
    Dion Jordan (Replaced by Collier)

    Rotational players
    Jacob Martin
    Quinton Jefferson
    Poona Ford

    On roster
    Naz Jones
    Raheem Green
    Branden Jackson

    The starters are set. We can add Marsh to the rotation.

    That leaves 2 spots on the DL and these guys fighting for it.
    Naz Jones
    Raheem Green
    Branden Jackson
    Jamie Meder
    Demarcus Christmas
    Bryon Mone
    Jay-Tee Tiuli

    Instill think the team may add another DT and Edge player because signing a vet doesn’t mean he’ll be on the 53...remember Tom Johnson?


    Rasheem Green is making the team. He is only 21 years old still (turns 22 on the 15th), they drafted him knowing they were going to have to red shirt him for a year, and let him physically mature and get stronger before making him a permanent rotational player.

    He did flash a little bit in his limited playing time. I am expecting a big jump for him in 2019.

    Top 8 D-Lineman

    5T Jefferson
    1T Ford
    3T Reed
    Leo Ansah

    Collier
    Woods
    Green
    Martin

    --------

    Bubble

    Marsh - Should make it for special teams, and can also play a little Sam if necessary. A Nick Perry type of signing could put his roster spot in question. Because I don't see them cutting any of the guys in the Top 8. If Marsh were to be cut Seattle would save $1.2M. That doesn't at all mean he will be, I am just noting that he could be the odd man out if Seattle signs another vet pass rusher.

    Naz Jones - After an uninspired 2nd season, he needs to light it up in August if he wants to make the team.
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  • Lets don't forget that we signed Nate "The great" Orchard. :snack:
    Chawker
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  • Chawker wrote:Lets don't forget that we signed Nate "The great" Orchard. :snack:


    Jville
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  • I think it is too soon to give up R Green, he was 20 when they drafted him... I mean he is almost two years younger than LJ Collier. Green will play this year at 22 years old .. while LJ will be 24 during the season.

    Rasheem tested close to most categories when compared to Nick Bosa and better in a few .. despite being about 10 pounds heavier.

    They are just prospects still at this point .. but some people think just get a couple more Power forward types like those two and have four big, fairly athletic guys playing bully ball with the pass rush. I like a variety and deff not hating on speed rushers but I hope they keep drafting these type of guys ..

    Having said that .. man and I will move on and am happy with the draft .. but damn .. Montez Sweat .. at Leo .. when John said .. I will tell you the story of the first round in 10 years .. during his post first day press conference .. I wonder if they were ok with his heart condition and hoping he would fall to them at 29.

    4.41 .. 260, long arms with a motor is a lot to work with .. and awe never mind it is what it is .. but damn .. I got to get over that ..

    Please don't misunderstand .. I really like LJ and that type of D lineman just saying.

    Anyway yah Green man .. we will see but there is alot to work with there and hopefully we start seeing him becoming a factor .. once camp opens .. he is an exciting prospect.

    Too many cool stories with the front seven .. this post would have chapters .. but .. yes. I will make a post about Poona .. because if your looking for guys that could .. become factors .. he is a legit candidate.

    Edit.... Even with Ziggy signed .. which I love I am still having a bit of Frank Clark withdraw ... so that is the whole Montez Sweat .. nonsense that I brought up .. after I posted .. if they draft Montez at 21 ... who do you leave out that you drafted? and while some of them may not have the upside .. a lot of times Superbowl teams .. have stars but complete rosters with important role players that make the difference. It really does take a bunch of guys that gel together, just click and play for one another .. not just one high upside player... anyway enough about that.
    JPC4Days
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  • People say starters, at our best we had a consistent rotation keeping guys fresh, I think at one time we had 11 DL on the active roster and 8 O lineman, it's when we had to start locking guys in for a lot of plays things started to have issues, they never wanted Bennett to play as much as he did nor Avril. Injuries reduced the effectiveness of being able to move guys around like they wanted and more injuries piled up.
    chris98251
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  • Pretty high on this group. I think the pass rush is going to be weaker, but I still think this is going to be the best depth we've had in a long while if Ziggy pans out. One area that we're going to be much better is run defense, which was a huge issue in 2018.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:Pretty high on this group. I think the pass rush is going to be weaker, but I still think this is going to be the best depth we've had in a long while if Ziggy pans out. One area that we're going to be much better is run defense, which was a huge issue in 2018.


    Stopping Todd Gurley has to be a priority if we want to reclaim the NFC West. Many of our newest front seven additions seem to be geared to stopping the run. In our 33-31 loss to the Rams last year Gurley had 77 yds & 3 TDs. 11/11/18 at Rams we lose 36-31, Gurley 120 yds, 7.5 avg, 1 TD. Gurley in 2018 was 3rd in yardage and 1st in TDs (17), 4.9 avg per carry for the season.
    Seahawker76
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  • Pete Carroll on Green:
    [*“Our expectation is that we’re going to play him at 5-technique (end), play him at defensive end, and use him as an inside rusher as well in nickel situations, then we’ll see what that brings us, but that’s the thought right now,” Carroll said. “We need a little help there, so it’s a good get for us… (His versatility) is very important for us. We’ll definitely have some options here. He’s really young, he’s a 20-year-old kid, and he’s from a great school down there, Serra High School. He’s got a lot of potential to grow. We’ll move him all around and figure it out.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Pete Carroll on Collier
    [“He’s going to play five technique for us," Carroll told reporters. "He’s very flexible and can move around. The guy that I saw pop up on the TV that he’s a lot like is Michael Bennett. He has the versatility and the style and the penetration ability, he’s really slippery. He has terrific pass rush makeup and so we’re going to fit him right in the scheme in that regard and look forward to that. You could see it early on that he had that kind of stuff to him. He’s really long and has good length to him, [he has] a really nice pass rush bag of tricks. He’s got all the stuff. We think we have something really special in him and I fell in love with the fact that he had a big chip on his shoulder and he wanted to prove it and all that too. He really fit in.”*]
    https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/sea ... e-seahawks

    Previous injuries - Green
    [*“The only reason he fell is because he had a little bit of a medical downgrade with an issue,” Schneider said. “We brought him in, our doctors were able to put their hands on him twice, give him a great exam here. He was able to spend some extra time with our coaches—we got to know him a little bit even better than we did. I’m sure he thought he was going to go higher. We like guys like that… It’s interesting, we have an orthopedic medical grade then we have a durability grade we use as well with our sports science guys, and he has a very solid durability grade. We’re excited about that.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Both of these guys are redundant. Why draft Collier in the first round when you drafted Green last year?

    With Greens injury history -which popped up last year- my initial thought is the Hawks cannot rely on the guy. IMHO, Green's injury history, cannot rely on him, redundant players put this guy on the bubble.

    However, Chris912.., made me think for a moment. Why not keep both, keep them fresh, and rotate these guys throughout the game? And, the team kept CJ Prosise for how many years so if they're willing to keep Prosise why not Green if he suffers another injury this year?

    All that being said, it makes sense to keep both, rotate these guys because PC always says you never have enough pass rushers.
    truehawksfan
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  • It seems the plan is to bolster the DL rotation with strong players at every position and depth, rather than rely on a superstar or two. It paid off well in 2013, iirc. The current roster I believe has the potential to be a very effective rotation, if a couple of the development guys (Green, Jones, Martin) make a solid showing and Ansah gets and stays healthy
    Grahamhawker
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  • truehawksfan wrote:Pete Carroll on Green:
    [*“Our expectation is that we’re going to play him at 5-technique (end), play him at defensive end, and use him as an inside rusher as well in nickel situations, then we’ll see what that brings us, but that’s the thought right now,” Carroll said. “We need a little help there, so it’s a good get for us… (His versatility) is very important for us. We’ll definitely have some options here. He’s really young, he’s a 20-year-old kid, and he’s from a great school down there, Serra High School. He’s got a lot of potential to grow. We’ll move him all around and figure it out.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Pete Carroll on Collier
    [“He’s going to play five technique for us," Carroll told reporters. "He’s very flexible and can move around. The guy that I saw pop up on the TV that he’s a lot like is Michael Bennett. He has the versatility and the style and the penetration ability, he’s really slippery. He has terrific pass rush makeup and so we’re going to fit him right in the scheme in that regard and look forward to that. You could see it early on that he had that kind of stuff to him. He’s really long and has good length to him, [he has] a really nice pass rush bag of tricks. He’s got all the stuff. We think we have something really special in him and I fell in love with the fact that he had a big chip on his shoulder and he wanted to prove it and all that too. He really fit in.”*]
    https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/sea ... e-seahawks

    Previous injuries - Green
    [*“The only reason he fell is because he had a little bit of a medical downgrade with an issue,” Schneider said. “We brought him in, our doctors were able to put their hands on him twice, give him a great exam here. He was able to spend some extra time with our coaches—we got to know him a little bit even better than we did. I’m sure he thought he was going to go higher. We like guys like that… It’s interesting, we have an orthopedic medical grade then we have a durability grade we use as well with our sports science guys, and he has a very solid durability grade. We’re excited about that.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Both of these guys are redundant. Why draft Collier in the first round when you drafted Green last year?

    With Greens injury history -which popped up last year- my initial thought is the Hawks cannot rely on the guy. IMHO, Green's injury history, cannot rely on him, redundant players put this guy on the bubble.

    However, Chris912.., made me think for a moment. Why not keep both, keep them fresh, and rotate these guys throughout the game? And, the team kept CJ Prosise for how many years so if they're willing to keep Prosise why not Green if he suffers another injury this year?

    All that being said, it makes sense to keep both, rotate these guys because PC always says you never have enough pass rushers.


    Good post, except for the part about "Green's injury history." I keep hearing this, and my question is, "What injury history?"

    In High School he tore an ACL that he had repaired, and they did a clean up at USC. An MRI at the combine showed the new ACL to be "wavy," but Seattle doctors got their own MRI and it showed otherwise. The left knee is just fine.

    I think his biggest problem is just his youth, and he's still growing in to that monstrous body. He's got to figure out how to make it move the ways he wants it to move, and that will take reps. Several draft sites thought the Green should have stayed another year in order to be a Top 10 pick. But fortunately for us, he came out when he did, and we got a steal!

    This guy is an athletic freak, and is going to be a monster for us. I have half an idea that this DLine is going to shock the shit out of a lot of people, and pundits will be all over Clint Hurtt, who will deserve a lot of credit. But if this line succeeds like I think it can, it will all be down to the genius of John Schneider.
    ivotuk
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  • It was said above. When we won the SB it was with a rotation of many DE and DT. Bennett and Avril didn’t play the entire game. We lost that recently and need to go back to it. I think We are on our way. Philly replicated our model a few years later and made the SB. In recent years our 4th Qrt pass rush has dropped off and I believe it Is because we relied on a shallow rotation, rather than a constant churning of fresh legs.
    Schadie001
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  • Here are the (referenced above) snap counts for the top eight defensive linemen in 2013

    name............ defensive snaps........ percentage defensive snap......... ST Snaps

    M. Bennett............ 600.................................... 57.5% ..............................43
    C. Clemons........... 570.................................... 54.7% ..............................36
    T. McDaniel........... 528.................................... 50.6%...............................34
    B. Mebane............. 531.................................... 50.9% ..............................27
    C. Avril................... 551.................................... 52.8% ................................5
    C. McDonald.......... 530.................................... 50.8% ..............................23
    R. Bryant................ 481.................................... 46.1% ..............................44
    O. Schofield............144..................................... 13.8% ............................154
    Jville
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  • M. Bennett............ L.J. Collier
    C. Clemons........... Ziggy Ansah
    T. McDaniel........... Al Woods
    B. Mebane............. Jarran Reed
    C. Avril................... Jacob Martin
    C. McDonald.......... Poona Ford
    R. Bryant................ Quentin Jefferson / Raheem Green / Naz Jones
    O. Schofield............Casseius Marsh

    Feels like we are still a player short at edge. If Ansah doesn't pan out that will be a problem. It's also asking a lot of Martin to fill the Avril role. Ideally we get one more player (Nick Perry?) and Martin moves to the Schofield Slot.

    There are a lot of question marks at the 5T spot. Collier is not going to be Michael Bennett out of the gate. Jefferson has a pretty low ceiling, Green is unproven, and Jones has regressed. If Green can emerge as a consistent impact pass rusher that would sure help.
    A-Dog
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  • truehawksfan wrote:Pete Carroll on Green:
    [*“Our expectation is that we’re going to play him at 5-technique (end), play him at defensive end, and use him as an inside rusher as well in nickel situations, then we’ll see what that brings us, but that’s the thought right now,” Carroll said. “We need a little help there, so it’s a good get for us… (His versatility) is very important for us. We’ll definitely have some options here. He’s really young, he’s a 20-year-old kid, and he’s from a great school down there, Serra High School. He’s got a lot of potential to grow. We’ll move him all around and figure it out.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Pete Carroll on Collier
    [“He’s going to play five technique for us," Carroll told reporters. "He’s very flexible and can move around. The guy that I saw pop up on the TV that he’s a lot like is Michael Bennett. He has the versatility and the style and the penetration ability, he’s really slippery. He has terrific pass rush makeup and so we’re going to fit him right in the scheme in that regard and look forward to that. You could see it early on that he had that kind of stuff to him. He’s really long and has good length to him, [he has] a really nice pass rush bag of tricks. He’s got all the stuff. We think we have something really special in him and I fell in love with the fact that he had a big chip on his shoulder and he wanted to prove it and all that too. He really fit in.”*]
    https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/sea ... e-seahawks

    Previous injuries - Green
    [*“The only reason he fell is because he had a little bit of a medical downgrade with an issue,” Schneider said. “We brought him in, our doctors were able to put their hands on him twice, give him a great exam here. He was able to spend some extra time with our coaches—we got to know him a little bit even better than we did. I’m sure he thought he was going to go higher. We like guys like that… It’s interesting, we have an orthopedic medical grade then we have a durability grade we use as well with our sports science guys, and he has a very solid durability grade. We’re excited about that.”]
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/pete-carr ... k-ahead-to

    Both of these guys are redundant. Why draft Collier in the first round when you drafted Green last year?

    With Greens injury history -which popped up last year- my initial thought is the Hawks cannot rely on the guy. IMHO, Green's injury history, cannot rely on him, redundant players put this guy on the bubble.

    However, Chris912.., made me think for a moment. Why not keep both, keep them fresh, and rotate these guys throughout the game? And, the team kept CJ Prosise for how many years so if they're willing to keep Prosise why not Green if he suffers another injury this year?

    All that being said, it makes sense to keep both, rotate these guys because PC always says you never have enough pass rushers.

    I wouldn't read too much into their post draft analysis on Green's position. Green is 2ish years younger than Collier and he's a bit of a freak athlete. If I remember correctly they expect him to play at 290-300 pounds. If he developes physically he'll be able to play anywhere on the line. He's still probably a year away though, and Collier seems to be one of the more pro ready prospects this year.
    knownone
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  • Given the way they've paid attention to defensive tackle (Jamie Meder and Al Woods--nose tackles that occupy space), I suspect that they think that Jarran Reed and Poona Ford will continue their progress as penetrators and situational three-techniques. Hopefully they're right, and the pass rush inside improves. This team misses Bennett shooting gaps inside.

    So much depends on the progress of really young players like Ford, Green, Martin, and Shaqueem. I suspect they are going to try to make Shaqueem a LEO / situational pass rusher. Otherwise, I think they'd have signed Nick Perry or someone like him.
    nanomoz
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  • I suspect our run defense will improve with Al Woods, rushing still questionable, defends on Ziggy's injury recovery, Collier's readiness to start, Green's progress; quite a few IFs.
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  • A-Dog wrote:M. Bennett............ L.J. Collier
    C. Clemons........... Ziggy Ansah
    T. McDaniel........... Al Woods
    B. Mebane............. Jarran Reed
    C. Avril................... Jacob Martin
    C. McDonald.......... Poona Ford
    R. Bryant................ Quentin Jefferson / Raheem Green / Naz Jones
    O. Schofield............Casseius Marsh

    Feels like we are still a player short at edge. If Ansah doesn't pan out that will be a problem. It's also asking a lot of Martin to fill the Avril role. Ideally we get one more player (Nick Perry?) and Martin moves to the Schofield Slot.

    There are a lot of question marks at the 5T spot. Collier is not going to be Michael Bennett out of the gate. Jefferson has a pretty low ceiling, Green is unproven, and Jones has regressed. If Green can emerge as a consistent impact pass rusher that would sure help.


    I agree completely. I would like to see them bring in a veteran for competition, more of a known commodity and if the young guys beat him out then you know they're ready. If not then you have a safety net for a year.
    DJrmb
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  • DJrmb wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:Our LB corps now looks amazing, but I don't think they are finished adding veterans to the defensive line. We have 15 players competing for 9 spots and will likely add more between now and cut downs. I also wouldn't be surprised if we traded a late pick next year for somebody.


    I agree with this. I don't see them relying on a rookie or 2nd year guy at the DE spot opposite Ansah. Not as the starter at least without beating out a veteran. That's not a slight on Collier or Green at all, it's just lineman don't normally realize their potential until the 3rd year. I expect a veteran 5T to be brought in for competition at the very least. McCoy would be amazing if they could get him, or a guy like Wilkerson would be a good fit imo.


    Collier is similar to Bennett in that his hand usage is outstanding for coming out of college. Hand fighting is one of the hardest thing to learn for DLmen and most rookies aren't great at it. He'll be productive.

    I think our pass rush will be average this year. I worry a bit about Safety, Nickle CB and rush DE. I don't think Ansah will be all that great. Our run defense will be great and interior pass rush decent. Lber looks pretty damned good. Overall I think we're at least as good as last year and potentially better.
    Hawks46
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Re: How stout will are front 7 be in 2019?
Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 am
  • Hawks46 wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:Our LB corps now looks amazing, but I don't think they are finished adding veterans to the defensive line. We have 15 players competing for 9 spots and will likely add more between now and cut downs. I also wouldn't be surprised if we traded a late pick next year for somebody.


    I agree with this. I don't see them relying on a rookie or 2nd year guy at the DE spot opposite Ansah. Not as the starter at least without beating out a veteran. That's not a slight on Collier or Green at all, it's just lineman don't normally realize their potential until the 3rd year. I expect a veteran 5T to be brought in for competition at the very least. McCoy would be amazing if they could get him, or a guy like Wilkerson would be a good fit imo.


    Collier is similar to Bennett in that his hand usage is outstanding for coming out of college. Hand fighting is one of the hardest thing to learn for DLmen and most rookies aren't great at it. He'll be productive.

    I think our pass rush will be average this year. I worry a bit about Safety, Nickle CB and rush DE. I don't think Ansah will be all that great. Our run defense will be great and interior pass rush decent. Lber looks pretty damned good. Overall I think we're at least as good as last year and potentially better.


    Michael Bennett wasn't really productive until his 3rd season even with his excellent hand fighting skill-set. He played in 7 games his first year and came away with 1 sack and 3 tackles. The next year he got 1 sack and 15 tackles in 13 games. Finally in his 4th year he had 4 sacks and 39 tackles over 14 games. Rookie D-lineman just aren't what you want to rely on if you're really serious about making a championship run (which seems to be the goal this year). I don't see any way Collier is ready to fill that Michael Bennett role in his rookie season at 500-600 snaps.
    DJrmb
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  • Although Poona Ford saw limited action last year, he received the 10th-highest rating for a defensive tackles from Pro Football Focus and allegedly made San Francisco's center cry because he was unable to block him. Don't discount his presence in the middle.
    KiwiHawk
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  • Ask me in a few months when the rest of UFAs and cuts are signed.
    lukerguy
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