Passing Progression

nwHawk

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Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?
 

Seymour

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nwHawk":2ts5bqog said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

Didn't use to. Russ used to really spread it around, but this year he really seemed to especially the 2nd half. Moore and Brown both did a disappearing act. I'm wondering if Schotty coached him into going there first to reduce the time holding the ball?
 
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nwHawk

nwHawk

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Definitely a possibility. I can't help but wonder if this has been going on longer than just this year, but masked to not appear so. Our passing game l, and run game, would be better if several WRs touched the ball so that the opposing defense didn't have the ability to "lock down" one guy (Baldwin or Lockett).

Do you think bnb it was talent, or play design?
 

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I like Moore, I think he’s a great raw talent. But I’d ask the same question that I asked about Bevell/Cable. What other competent teams want them? We do a lot of hand wringing over who’s at fault, but Moore, Brown, and several others aren’t exactly hot commodities. That Wilson, Wagner, and Carroll can make it work with less talent is very impressive
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":29gq8vhl said:
nwHawk":29gq8vhl said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

Didn't use to. Russ used to really spread it around, but this year he really seemed to especially the 2nd half. Moore and Brown both did a disappearing act. I'm wondering if Schotty coached him into going there first to reduce the time holding the ball?

I think this has more to do with Moore and Brown being below average inconsistent and undependable route runners, more than anything Schotty or Russell were doing.

Late in the season with Doug back? Russ is going to go to who he trusts the majority of the time, and that's Tyler and Doug. It's not a coincidence that Moore's targets fell off dramatically as Doug got healthier and healthier.

For an offense that averaged less than 20 passes a game, not sure what people expect for receiver targets.
 

MontanaHawk05

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Sgt. Largent":20wsk03j said:
Seymour":20wsk03j said:
nwHawk":20wsk03j said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

Didn't use to. Russ used to really spread it around, but this year he really seemed to especially the 2nd half. Moore and Brown both did a disappearing act. I'm wondering if Schotty coached him into going there first to reduce the time holding the ball?

I think this has more to do with Moore and Brown being below average inconsistent and undependable route runners, more than anything Schotty or Russell were doing.

Late in the season with Doug back? Russ is going to go to who he trusts the majority of the time, and that's Tyler and Doug. It's not a coincidence that Moore's targets fell off dramatically as Doug got healthier and healthier.

For an offense that averaged less than 20 passes a game, not sure what people expect for receiver targets.

I'm less concerned with Moore getting catches and more concerned with not deploying route concepts that are easier to shut down and thus expose Russ to pass rush.
 

Seymour

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Sgt. Largent":29k1cj7b said:
Seymour":29k1cj7b said:
nwHawk":29k1cj7b said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

Didn't use to. Russ used to really spread it around, but this year he really seemed to especially the 2nd half. Moore and Brown both did a disappearing act. I'm wondering if Schotty coached him into going there first to reduce the time holding the ball?

I think this has more to do with Moore and Brown being below average inconsistent and undependable route runners, more than anything Schotty or Russell were doing.

Late in the season with Doug back? Russ is going to go to who he trusts the majority of the time, and that's Tyler and Doug. It's not a coincidence that Moore's targets fell off dramatically as Doug got healthier and healthier.

For an offense that averaged less than 20 passes a game, not sure what people expect for receiver targets.

Not so sure that is all of the picture there.

Brown 14 receptions 5 TD's
Moore 26 receptions 5 TD's

Those guys are scoring an incredible TD to catch rate and clearly are getting it done in the red zone (where the field shrinks).

Pretty hard to explain that away other than Russ likes the taller guys in the red zone (only though?).
 

Spin Doctor

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Sgt. Largent":3m5qq8ax said:
Seymour":3m5qq8ax said:
nwHawk":3m5qq8ax said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

Didn't use to. Russ used to really spread it around, but this year he really seemed to especially the 2nd half. Moore and Brown both did a disappearing act. I'm wondering if Schotty coached him into going there first to reduce the time holding the ball?

I think this has more to do with Moore and Brown being below average inconsistent and undependable route runners, more than anything Schotty or Russell were doing.

Late in the season with Doug back? Russ is going to go to who he trusts the majority of the time, and that's Tyler and Doug. It's not a coincidence that Moore's targets fell off dramatically as Doug got healthier and healthier.

For an offense that averaged less than 20 passes a game, not sure what people expect for receiver targets.
Moore is a fairly limited, and he is very rough as a player. I look it him in the same way I look at Penny. He is really good at one thing, and deficient in every other category. In Moore's case he is very good at playing the post, and go routes. He excels here because he is very good at catching contested balls. His route running leaves a lot to be desired, and he seems to have a hard time getting open when put in any other situation.

This is the type of player that you love to have as your 4th string receiver. A guy with a very specialized skill set that can get you out of specific situations that may arise. He still has a lot of work to do in order to be a starting caliber wideout.
 

John63

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Well lets look at it

Lockett was targetted 70 times or 16.5%
Baldwin was targetted 73 times or 17%
Moore 53 or 12.4%
Vannette 42 or 10%
Davis 42 or 10%


So lets compare to another team say Pats
Eldeman 108 or 18%
white 123 or 21%
gordon 68 12%
Gronk 72 12.6%
Hogan 55 10%


So their top target guy was at 21% our was at 17%
the next guy was at 18% ours 16.5
The rest are all within 2% or so

I would say no.
 
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nwHawk

nwHawk

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MontanaHawk05":2yqwin16 said:
I'm less concerned with Moore getting catches and more concerned with not deploying route concepts that are easier to shut down and thus expose Russ to pass rush.

I'm not concerned about anyone one WR getting targets, and how do we know the the routes are simpler than before? There were numerous times the past few years that we saw 5 wides that ran 10 yards and stopped (which never worked).
 

Mad Dog

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nwHawk":2cpnsil1 said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

What I'm seeing is a rudimentary intermediate passing scheme. It was a problem all year. The game plans were simply run the ball and use that to lead into play action deep shots or one on ones on the outside.

I really would like to see a lot more creativity on the 6-10 yard stuff. Getting the ball to guys in space. Our YAC was terrible. Using the TE's more creatively.

What we did worked and I love a great run game as much as anyone. But the pass game was so limited at times. It seemed anytime we were 2nd and 14 we'd run for 3 yards rather than pass for 9 to set up a manageable 3rd.
 

John63

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Mad Dog":22vhkutv said:
nwHawk":22vhkutv said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

What I'm seeing is a rudimentary intermediate passing scheme. It was a problem all year. The game plans were simply run the ball and use that to lead into play action deep shots or one on ones on the outside.

I really would like to see a lot more creativity on the 6-10 yard stuff. Getting the ball to guys in space. Our YAC was terrible. Using the TE's more creatively.

What we did worked and I love a great run game as much as anyone. But the pass game was so limited at times. It seemed anytime we were 2nd and 14 we'd run for 3 yards rather than pass for 9 to set up a manageable 3rd.


Agreed, little to no imagination in our passing, games instead of relying on Wilson to make magic. Proof of that is Wilson leading the league in tight window throws.
 

chris98251

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We have a crew of Slot receivers that play bigger then they are and a guys that is speed in Lockett. We don't have a Marshall or Rice in their prime. That's what's missing, we have been trying like hell since Pete got here to find one, but they are all either not talented enough to stick or to far past their prime and or injured. Schotty's offense in the passing game works best with one of those types and the TE's. We have the TE's and we have the slots and RB's, we need the big guy on the edge that can also post up CB's etc and spread the field.

I think they hope Darboh can be that kind of guy, but he seems fragile and not tough enough physically based on his short time in the league and on IR most of it.
 

MontanaHawk05

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Mad Dog":32xglfa3 said:
nwHawk":32xglfa3 said:
Is it just me, or does Seattle seem to lock into a 2 receiver progression more so than other teams? What are you guys seeing?

What I'm seeing is a rudimentary intermediate passing scheme. It was a problem all year. The game plans were simply run the ball and use that to lead into play action deep shots or one on ones on the outside.

That's been a problem during Carroll's entire tenure, including when they got to the Super Bowl twice.
 
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