Great article from the Ringer-Seahawks run

StouffersPizza

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1/6/ ... card-round

NFL teams ran less in 2018 than any other season in NFL history. Rushing attempts per team per game dipped below 26 for the first time since at least 1936, when stats started being tracked. Meanwhile, teams also scored 23.3 points and gained 352.2 yards per team per game, the second-highest mark of all time for each category. These two stats are related. Passing is more efficient than running, and the entire NFL is running less and scoring more.

You’d never know it from watching the Seahawks, who fell to the Dallas Cowboys 24-22 on Saturday night because of a stunningly conservative game plan. Head coach Pete Carroll and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer stuck to the run despite MVP-caliber quarterback Russell Wilson idling in the backfield like an unused getaway Ferrari in a bank robbery. Seattle followed up its only playoff-less season of Russell Wilson’s career in 2017 with something worse in 2018: a playoff loss that could have EASILY been a win had the Seahawks bothered to let their All-Pro QB Wilson you know...actually throw the ball and play quarterback.

^^^Just a taste. Complete article linked above. It is a pretty honest, objective take.
 

Fade

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
5,454
Reaction score
2,988
Location
Truth Ray
StouffersPizza":11wochfk said:
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1/6/18168786/seattle-seahawks-dallas-cowboys-wild-card-round

NFL teams ran less in 2018 than any other season in NFL history. Rushing attempts per team per game dipped below 26 for the first time since at least 1936, when stats started being tracked. Meanwhile, teams also scored 23.3 points and gained 352.2 yards per team per game, the second-highest mark of all time for each category. These two stats are related. Passing is more efficient than running, and the entire NFL is running less and scoring more.

You’d never know it from watching the Seahawks, who fell to the Dallas Cowboys 24-22 on Saturday night because of a stunningly conservative game plan. Head coach Pete Carroll and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer stuck to the run despite MVP-caliber quarterback Russell Wilson idling in the backfield like an unused getaway Ferrari in a bank robbery. Seattle followed up its only playoff-less season of Russell Wilson’s career in 2017 with something worse in 2018: a playoff loss that could have EASILY been a win had the Seahawks bothered to let their All-Pro QB Wilson you know...actually throw the ball and play quarterback.

^^^Just a taste. Complete article linked above. It is a pretty honest, objective take.

So true.
 

idle Eric

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Location
England
Ignorant, lazy, pathetic article. Typical national press take on the Seahawks. I read it before you posted it and it annoyed me more than any other article. As you can probably tell I couldn't disagree more with this piece of so called journalism BS.
 

Scorpion05

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
10
Great article. A team has to be able to adapt. We’re one of the few run first teams in NFL history with a QB as talented. We needed leverage that balance more often. Get one more receiver, invest in O-line depth, and focus more on keeping teams guessing. No reason we couldn’t pass more with the QB we have. A QB who’s more than capable of being in a pass first offense. No less than a Brees or maybe Baker Mayfield could
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,236
Reaction score
9,684
Location
Sammamish, WA
Truth, NO reason this team can't pass a lot more when needed. The main reason they lost that game on Sunday: blatant refusal to adapt. The running game was NOT going to work in that game. Get over your "this is what we are" crap and adjust, adapt and let Russ fling it all over the yard. He has done it on many occasions. It's maddening that they don't just let him loose, and in a sense it IS wasting his talent.
 

Scorpion05

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
10
Russ can play with and without a running game. He had more overall TDs last season, although this year his efficiency was on another level. Can’t believe there are people who insist he can’t do it without a run game when he literally did it last year lol. And he accounted for all but one touchdown. No other QB would be criticized by some members of the fan base for such an effort

Seahawks tried to outlast the Cowboys but that should have been thrown out the moment we weren’t stopping them. They were dominating time of possession early and that’s usually our bread and butter. Force Dak to play from behind. Part of the reason the Patriots win so often is because they adjust their offense to whatever game plan is needed. If that means Brady throws for 150 yards but they rush for 200, so be it. We have the QB and 3/4 the personnel to be really versatile on offense
 

gammam

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Why is it that we blame the play calling when the play fails but when its successful we say the players did it? it just seems selective in trying to build an argument. Couldn't it be that the plays called were actually ok and that they players didn't execute? Why is Russel the king of passing when things go well (and he made some amazing throws) but when he can't complete on 3rd down we don't hold him accountable? Its very selective anger I am hearing.

I'm not arguing that we had a perfect game called by coaches but the bias against the play calling stinks like Bevell hangover...

game 1 and 2 we blamed the play calling too when we didn't run enough. Nobody was saying pass more then. people get angry that on 3 and 17 we run a conservative play which has little to no hope of being successful (there is more to it than that, long developing pass plays need good protection, create dangerous turnover scenarios - one we struggle with and the other we are allergic too). How about don't get in 3rd and 17 with penalties or sacks? Those down and distances do not succeed in the NFL, so playing the numbers makes sense.

We are in close games every game because of the same conservative mentality that we also complain about when it isn't successful. Its hard to lose but suddenly the heavy run game is the worst idea ever?

Dance with the girl you brought. /rant
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,236
Reaction score
9,684
Location
Sammamish, WA
Heavy run game is great. But on Saturday, it was NOT working. They chose to ignore it and chose to wait way too long, yet again to adjust to the game as it was unfolding. We have seen this time and time again.
 

HawkRiderFan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
1,900
Reaction score
759
I think it's been said by others but i have no issues with trying to establish a run or going with that philosophy. Just be willing to check out of it when it's clearly not working. I've heard of "using the pass to establish the run". Once the Cowboys were shutting down the first down run and the play action pass was working, why not keep hitting them with the play action pass until they finally started honoring that, then hitting them with the run?

I just didn't see that predictability coming. I think of the Chiefs game late where when you think we would go conservative and run on second down, Schotty called the deep shot to Lockett.
 

Elemas

New member
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
7
Stats aside, I think we squeezed as much success from this team as possible with the run first mentality. Coming into this season, we were projected to be 4-12 (by some accounts), were rebuilding, and realigning under new strategies.

With that said....the team has to adapt. Banging your head (our run game last week) against the wall (Dallas' run D) repetitively wont garner much success.

I hope we consider another receiving threat for this team and try to find some balance on the offensive end of things. We have Russ...no excuse to not let him loose.
 

mrt144

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
4,065
Reaction score
0
gammam":2tifzjyp said:
Why is it that we blame the play calling when the play fails but when its successful we say the players did it? it just seems selective in trying to build an argument. Couldn't it be that the plays called were actually ok and that they players didn't execute? Why is Russel the king of passing when things go well (and he made some amazing throws) but when he can't complete on 3rd down we don't hold him accountable? Its very selective anger I am hearing.

I'm not arguing that we had a perfect game called by coaches but the bias against the play calling stinks like Bevell hangover...

game 1 and 2 we blamed the play calling too when we didn't run enough. Nobody was saying pass more then. people get angry that on 3 and 17 we run a conservative play which has little to no hope of being successful (there is more to it than that, long developing pass plays need good protection, create dangerous turnover scenarios - one we struggle with and the other we are allergic too). How about don't get in 3rd and 17 with penalties or sacks? Those down and distances do not succeed in the NFL, so playing the numbers makes sense.

We are in close games every game because of the same conservative mentality that we also complain about when it isn't successful. Its hard to lose but suddenly the heavy run game is the worst idea ever?

Dance with the girl you brought. /rant

You dance with the girl you brought until she can't dance no more and then you switch partners? I'm trying to carry your analogy to the endzone here ;)
 

TwistedHusky

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
1,046
There is a great article on Field Gulls about why the Seahawk offense would not work in the playoffs (against better defenses).

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/7/181 ... l-defenses

I did not know it was this bad, but I realized that you were going to get a lot of artificially inflated #s playing a number of teams literally falling apart at the end of the season (Packers, Vikings, Cards, 49ers).

The thing is, this was the very indicator of what was known as 'Marty Ball'. Didn't Marty put up pretty good records regularly before flaming out regularly? Didn't he even put up a 14-2 record one year?

It works in putting together a solid record with a team that really won't be able to compete against the better teams in the Post Season.

It makes your team (and especially the defense) look better than they are, because it limits the # of opposing possessions.

So it is a great strategy if you don't have a great QB or are missing some pieces on offense. The problem for us, is we have a great QB. So we have the advantage that so many teams covet but we don't bother using it but sporadically.

Either way, this offense was not going to work against good defenses and DIDN'T work against the freaking Cardinals leading up to the playoffs. That we thought it would work against a BETTER defense while we fielded two INJURED STARTING OL in the game? That part was baffling.

Even more baffling considering Wilson has shown repeatedly that he can produce when his OL is struggling. So let's not give him the ball? Until near the end?

For some reason they relied on our offense being able to score but then our defense being able to stop them. Our defense was going to give up a score at least 1 out of 3 possessions (lazy estimate but viable for 4th qtr). Why not at least try to get enough points that you leave a cushion for when your young defense has a setback or two?
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,236
Reaction score
9,684
Location
Sammamish, WA
Yep, same record many times. No excuse for not balling out in the 1st half of games. No excuse for waiting til the 4th quarter to the let Russ do what he does. It makes no sense. But...but....we are a running team. Just stop. It was NOT WORKING, change it up. Play 4 quarters of football, change things up, keep the opponent guessing etc.
 

HawkRiderFan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
1,900
Reaction score
759
I get the dance with the girl you brought idea. However if the DJ switches to a slow dance song and you're still dancing like you did for the techno songs, you look weird
 

TwilightError

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
1,332
Reaction score
215
Seahawks played the style that gives them the best chance to win. They did all that passing offense stuff in the first games of this season and they lost. This team just was not ready for a super bowl yet, next year will be a different story.
 

Russ Willstrong

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
0
HawkRiderFan":apfhx75i said:
I think it's been said by others but i have no issues with trying to establish a run or going with that philosophy. Just be willing to check out of it when it's clearly not working. I've heard of "using the pass to establish the run". Once the Cowboys were shutting down the first down run and the play action pass was working, why not keep hitting them with the play action pass until they finally started honoring that, then hitting them with the run?

I just didn't see that predictability coming. I think of the Chiefs game late where when you think we would go conservative and run on second down, Schotty called the deep shot to Lockett.
IIRC, that was a play where Wilson said he waived off Schotty. Wilson and Lockett can improvise as they did on the 50 yr pass that set up the final td against Dallas.
I love Schotty but he's still learning his players. He has gifted RBs who can catch but not a single screen call. You want to run it then why not mix it up in the backfield with a 2 back set. We have good TE who can block and catch. Where's the POP/RPO to our TE down the seam against this aggressive front that usually works? We have enough speed to create misdirection why not use it?
 

sdog1981

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
240
The Patriots love to throw the ball. They will throw the ball 50 times a game. But in the playoffs, they shock teams with how much they run it. When they beat the Colts in the AFC title game they ran the ball 40 times and blew the Colts out, then in the Superbowl, they ran the ball 21 times and still won.

The team needs to be run first, run first will get teams to quit on you. But the team also needs to be able to quickly change once that is no longer possible.

Look at the Seahawks KC game this year. The Hawks got the ball back with a 31-28 everyone knows the running focused Seahawks were going to run the ball and grind out the game. What did the Hawks do on that drive? They threw the ball 6 times and set up a 1 yard Chris Carson TD run and a 10 point lead. They did not do anything like that against the Cowboys.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
TwilightError":k2o9487l said:
Seahawks played the style that gives them the best chance to win. They did all that passing offense stuff in the first games of this season and they lost. This team just was not ready for a super bowl yet, next year will be a different story.

If adjustments are made, yes.

I think thats most peoples concerns. The offense was so much more effective than last year while remaining very simple in nature.

Is schorty capable of taking the next step
 

DynoHawk

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
1,120
Reaction score
4
gammam":1wtb9daz said:
Dance with the girl you brought. /rant

If the girl you brought to the dance is repeatedly stuffed by the entire defensive line, time to change partners...
 

mrt144

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
4,065
Reaction score
0
DynoHawk":2963azba said:
gammam":2963azba said:
Dance with the girl you brought. /rant

If the girl you brought to the dance is repeatedly stuffed by the entire defensive line, time to change partners...

I don't know, that sounds like a fun kinky time. ;)
 

Latest posts

Top