Remember when USA Today predicted 4 wins for the Seahawks?

hawknation2018 · Nov 18, 2018

So much for that... :lol:

Seattle Seahawks (4-12): Ex-LOBer Richard Sherman nailed it when he said, "They’ve lost their way." Russell Wilson could generate 100% of the offense this year, and it won't be enough for a roster that's crumbling around him.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 794037002/

Shanegotyou11 · Nov 18, 2018

You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

hawknation2018 · Nov 18, 2018

Win #5 and we’re still alive.

semiahmoo · Nov 18, 2018

Shanegotyou11":1vubar6x said:
You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

Disagree - sort of.

Biggest difference is the O-Line and run game this season which has taken a ton of pressure off of Russ and the defense.

Not sure how much credit Pete gets for those two huge improvements which frankly should have come along several seasons earlier, the fault of which might fall mostly on Pete's shoes.

KiwiHawk · Nov 18, 2018

semiahmoo":38yubpk1 said:
Shanegotyou11":38yubpk1 said:

You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

Click to expand...

Disagree - sort of.

Biggest difference is the O-Line and run game this season which has taken a ton of pressure off of Russ and the defense.

Not sure how much credit Pete gets for those two huge improvements which frankly should have come along several seasons earlier, the fault of which might fall mostly on Pete's shoes.

Hrm, I'm curious about this "several seasons earlier". In my book, one season is "one", two is "a couple" and three can be either "a few" or the beginning of "several", but generally "several" is 4 or more.

Four seasons ago would be the 2014 season. We were the first team in a long time not to suffer a Super Bowl hangover and almost managed a repeat. We showed ominous problems on offense primarily in the first half of that Super Bowl, but the fact we were there tends to obfuscate the need to fire anyone at that point.

Three seasons ago was 2015. Lynch was injured for a lot of it but Rawls looked quite good and we piled up over 2000 rushing yards at 4.5 per carry, and as team produced over 30 points in 7 of our regular-season games. We ended our season against Carolina in the Division game. It's hard to fire someone for a lack of rushing performance when you're rushing for 4.5 per attempt, and your main back (Rawls) was at 5.6 per attempt. That actually seems fairly successful even if the slow-starting offense was often frustrating.

Two years ago the OL looked pretty rough in pre-season and started the season the same way. At the time we thought it may have something to do with us facing the league's best defensive lines week in and week out to start the season, and then Wilson got hurt. Rawls' production fell off a cliff, and Christine Michael proved to be every bit of a draft bust. However, because Wilson was hurt and everyone knew we had to run to protect him, our opponents focused on the run. Still, we ran for over 1500 yards at 3.9 per carry. Not where we wanted to be, but not hideous, either. Toward the end of the season the line seemed to get better, and we once again finished in the Divisional round of the playoffs, having a record 1/2 game better than the previous season. At this point do you fire people for 3.9 a carry? Hard to say. Yes, the line started terribly, but it was improving by the end of the year. You could argue this is the handwriting on the wall for at least Cable if not the both of them, but you have to ask if it was an anomaly or a new status quo, and given the second-half improvement in the OL, you might be forgiven in thinking things may right themselves next year.

Last year it was more obvious things were falling apart. Wilson was back healthy, but while a promising rookie flashed early, we struggled to piece a rushing game together. Rushing figures looked "ok" on the surface at 4.0 per carry and over 1600 yards, but most of the good was Wilson, and most of the bad were our running backs. The next 3 were 2.6, 3.5, and 2.7 YPC respectively, before we come to Carson's standout 4.2 YPC season-before-injury. It was now obvious and without mitigation that the OL was problematic and the offensive production simply not up to the job. To me, it is at this point the firings were beyond doubt, and this is where the firings happened.

There were certainly indications we had difficulties on offense all along. I don't think we've ever been truly happy except during a 3-game stretch in 2012 where we were the hottest thing in the NFL. But the litmus test here is were they worth firing guys who helped to build the 2013 and 2014 teams.

At "Several" seasons ago, I would say no. At "A few", I still say no, but with some doubts around the edges. At "a couple" I could see it if not for the upswing - there was certainly need for improvement. After last season it was of course obvious.

Now, I would love to be one of those guys who gets everything right so I can stand here hand-on-heart and say that even when we were playing in the Super Bowl that we needed to fire people, but I'll be honest; I can't say that, and I didn't say that until last year.

Keep in mind we have a QB who goes off-script so often that it's hard to tell what was planned vs what was executed, making it even more difficult to pin a given outcome as being definitely the result of the OC or the OL coach. Pete is closer to it so obviously knows more what was supposed to happen.

hawknation2018 · Nov 18, 2018

KiwiHawk":3bymu65o said:
semiahmoo":3bymu65o said:

Shanegotyou11":3bymu65o said:

You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

Click to expand...

Disagree - sort of.

Biggest difference is the O-Line and run game this season which has taken a ton of pressure off of Russ and the defense.

Not sure how much credit Pete gets for those two huge improvements which frankly should have come along several seasons earlier, the fault of which might fall mostly on Pete's shoes.

Click to expand...

Hrm, I'm curious about this "several seasons earlier". In my book, one season is "one", two is "a couple" and three can be either "a few" or the beginning of "several", but generally "several" is 4 or more.

Four seasons ago would be the 2014 season. We were the first team in a long time not to suffer a Super Bowl hangover and almost managed a repeat. We showed ominous problems on offense primarily in the first half of that Super Bowl, but the fact we were there tends to obfuscate the need to fire anyone at that point.

Three seasons ago was 2015. Lynch was injured for a lot of it but Rawls looked quite good and we piled up over 2000 rushing yards at 4.5 per carry, and as team produced over 30 points in 7 of our regular-season games. We ended our season against Carolina in the Division game. It's hard to fire someone for a lack of rushing performance when you're rushing for 4.5 per attempt, and your main back (Rawls) was at 5.6 per attempt. That actually seems fairly successful even if the slow-starting offense was often frustrating.

Two years ago the OL looked pretty rough in pre-season and started the season the same way. At the time we thought it may have something to do with us facing the league's best defensive lines week in and week out to start the season, and then Wilson got hurt. Rawls' production fell off a cliff, and Christine Michael proved to be every bit of a draft bust. However, because Wilson was hurt and everyone knew we had to run to protect him, our opponents focused on the run. Still, we ran for over 1500 yards at 3.9 per carry. Not where we wanted to be, but not hideous, either. Toward the end of the season the line seemed to get better, and we once again finished in the Divisional round of the playoffs, having a record 1/2 game better than the previous season. At this point do you fire people for 3.9 a carry? Hard to say. Yes, the line started terribly, but it was improving by the end of the year. You could argue this is the handwriting on the wall for at least Cable if not the both of them, but you have to ask if it was an anomaly or a new status quo, and given the second-half improvement in the OL, you might be forgiven in thinking things may right themselves next year.

Last year it was more obvious things were falling apart. Wilson was back healthy, but while a promising rookie flashed early, we struggled to piece a rushing game together. Rushing figures looked "ok" on the surface at 4.0 per carry and over 1600 yards, but most of the good was Wilson, and most of the bad were our running backs. The next 3 were 2.6, 3.5, and 2.7 YPC respectively, before we come to Carson's standout 4.2 YPC season-before-injury. It was now obvious and without mitigation that the OL was problematic and the offensive production simply not up to the job. To me, it is at this point the firings were beyond doubt, and this is where the firings happened.

There were certainly indications we had difficulties on offense all along. I don't think we've ever been truly happy except during a 3-game stretch in 2012 where we were the hottest thing in the NFL. But the litmus test here is were they worth firing guys who helped to build the 2013 and 2014 teams.

At "Several" seasons ago, I would say no. At "A few", I still say no, but with some doubts around the edges. At "a couple" I could see it if not for the upswing - there was certainly need for improvement. After last season it was of course obvious.

Now, I would love to be one of those guys who gets everything right so I can stand here hand-on-heart and say that even when we were playing in the Super Bowl that we needed to fire people, but I'll be honest; I can't say that, and I didn't say that until last year.

Keep in mind we have a QB who goes off-script so often that it's hard to tell what was planned vs what was executed, making it even more difficult to pin a given outcome as being definitely the result of the OC or the OL coach. Pete is closer to it so obviously knows more what was supposed to happen.

Good post. I had wanted an offensive coaching change for a while (around 2014), but it’s a hard decision to move on from influential assistant coaches who are popular with your players — when you have already won a Super Bowl, been to two Super Bowls, and are still competing for a Super Bowl season after season (five-straight years of playoffs wins).

It was a hard decision for a head coach to have to make. Carroll deserves credit, not just for making a change, but for making the right change.

Mad Dog · Nov 18, 2018

semiahmoo":32t7e21c said:
Shanegotyou11":32t7e21c said:

You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

Click to expand...

Disagree - sort of.

Biggest difference is the O-Line and run game this season which has taken a ton of pressure off of Russ and the defense.

Not sure how much credit Pete gets for those two huge improvements which frankly should have come along several seasons earlier, the fault of which might fall mostly on Pete's shoes.

Pretty sure it was Pete that fired Cable and hired Solari. Pretty sure Pete was the driver for the Carson and Penny picks. Pretty sure Pete listened to Solari when he vouched for Fluker.

Pretty sure you're just mad we aren't winning KC style and just want Pete gone so we can hire an offensive guru that wins in the regular season and loses in January.

I agree that Cable should have been fired a year earlier. But sometimes patience is rewarded and sometimes it isn't. If FO's listened to every angry fan they'd be out of a job soon enough. Maybe the Cleveland Browns might not be in the state they are today if they'd shown a bit more patience with Belichek.

Don't think Pete has ever lost in double digits with any team. I certainly know Wilson hasn't. So a 4 win prediction for this team was foolhardy at best

GeekHawk · Nov 18, 2018

I'm pretty sure 'mainly-a-yahoo' just wants a coach that can deliver the fantasy football points so he doesn't keep looking like a rube. Screw the real-world results.

sdog1981 · Nov 18, 2018

Mad Dog":1mvb0u3z said:
Pretty sure it was Pete that fired Cable and hired Solari. Pretty sure Pete was the driver for the Carson and Penny picks. Pretty sure Pete listened to Solari when he vouched for Fluker.

Pretty sure you're just mad we aren't winning KC style and just want Pete gone so we can hire an offensive guru that wins in the regular season and loses in January.

I agree that Cable should have been fired a year earlier. But sometimes patience is rewarded and sometimes it isn't. If FO's listened to every angry fan they'd be out of a job soon enough. Maybe the Cleveland Browns might not be in the state they are today if they'd shown a bit more patience with Belichek.

Don't think Pete has ever lost in double digits with any team. I certainly know Wilson hasn't. So a 4 win prediction for this team was foolhardy at best

Oh, man dude you are all over the place here. Let's get to the things you just completely screwed up.

Pete lost 10 games with the Jets before he was fired.

The Browns moved and fired Belichick. So it was the Ravens that fired him and they won a Superbowl 4 years later.

Now onto Tom Cable

The black mark on Pete's whole time here will be hiring Tom Cable and keep him on the staff. Cable is the worst coach in organized football and is in the running for being the worst coach in sports history. That's right Cable is one of the worst coaches in the history of organized sports, yes any sport.

Tom Cable gutted the Seahawks he wasted over 30 draft picks form every round of the draft. He somehow made players worse the more he coached them. He had the teams first pick 3 different times and screwed it up every time. Do you know why the 49ers had a chance to win the game at the end of the NFC title game? Because Cables pathetic online failed on the goal line and gave the ball back to the 49ers. His pathic anti-coaching showed up in Superbowl 49 too, time and time again in short yardage situations the Patriots were able to stuff Marshawn on 3rd and short. The Seahawks had to throw the ball on second down because Pete knew they could not score from one yard out. After 49 all the defensive player knew that Bevell and Cable had to go but Pete kept them and we all saw how that turned out.

Cable cost the Seahawks 2 Superbowls. At a minimum with the talent, the 2012-2016 Seahawks had they should have won 2 out of 3 super bowls with the potential of winning three straight from 2012-2014. The 2013 Seahawks should have been 19-0 every loss in 2013 is linked directly to Cables pathetic anti-coaching.

With Pete's philosophy, Lynch should have had a 2000 yard rushing season along with multiple 20 TD seasons.

If the NFL was a regular business Pete would have been fired for hiring Cable. But the NFL is not a regular business and Pete can get a new group of players in the building, with none of them knowing anything about Cable. That is good because Pete is a damn fine coach the only problem is he made one massive mistake in keeping Cable on the staff.

RolandDeschain · Nov 18, 2018

Bevell's stupidity was evident even in our Super Bowl-winning season. Several is correct, IMO. We won in spite of him, not because of him.

semiahmoo · Nov 18, 2018

RolandDeschain":1uath2ph said:
Bevell's stupidity was evident even in our Super Bowl-winning season. Several is correct, IMO. We won in spite of him, not because of him.

Correct.

And one season of Russ getting the crap banged out of him game after game after game is 'several' seasons too many. You don't pay a guy like that and then leave him hanging to stay loyal to an OC and line coach who should have been booted long ago.

All those who said Cable had to go were proven right. The difference in this team is night and day vs recent previous season and those who think Wilson can lead the team back to the SB have to be particularly happy.

Those who want to say Russ is great but then hesitate to criticize Pete for not launching Cable and Bevell out of Seattle sooner are subject-dyslexic.

Carry on....

sdog1981 · Nov 18, 2018

RolandDeschain":12aegxh5 said:
Bevell's stupidity was evident even in our Super Bowl-winning season. Several is correct, IMO. We won in spite of him, not because of him.

I don't know that anymore. The one time the team had a decent working Oline in 2015 the team was a bit of an offensive juggernaut. Bevell doesn't have a job so that is a huge red flag. Jeremy Bates doesn't have a job either soooooo yeah...

scutterhawk · Nov 18, 2018

semiahmoo":1qkqj1hl said:
Shanegotyou11":1qkqj1hl said:

You got Pete? Check.

You got russ? Check.

We will never have 4 or less imo.

Click to expand...

Disagree - sort of.

Biggest difference is the O-Line and run game this season which has taken a ton of pressure off of Russ and the defense.

Not sure how much credit Pete gets for those two huge improvements which frankly should have come along several seasons earlier, the fault of which might fall mostly on Pete's shoes.

Read the "Nail In The Coffin" thread, as it pretty much dispels a lot of this horse shit. ^^

doso · Nov 19, 2018

I swear some people are so negative, even if we make the playoffs we’ll still be doubted by our own fans. Same guys booing at the stadium... smh

toffee · Nov 19, 2018

hawknation2018":6qdtps5q said:
So much for that... :lol:

Seattle Seahawks (4-12): Ex-LOBer Richard Sherman nailed it when he said, "They’ve lost their way." Russell Wilson could generate 100% of the offense this year, and it won't be enough for a roster that's crumbling around him.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 794037002/

Click to expand...

and .... Sherman can kiss my a**.

Palmegranite · Nov 19, 2018

Here's another Nostradumbass prediction for the 5-5 Colts.

Indianapolis Colts (2-14): Even ifAndrew Luck has made a complete recovery, his supporting cast hasn't — crippling in a once-downtrodden division that's transformed in Luck's absence.

Ha Ha.

Palmegranite · Nov 19, 2018

The team that really has good reason to be offended?
The 9-1 Kansas City Chiefs.

USA Today's prediction was a losing record.

Kansas City Chiefs (7-9):

truehawksfan · Nov 19, 2018

Ah, can we stay on topic?

While the development of the Oline and emergence of the best run game is impressive, the national media had commented on the defense....saying it’s possibily one of the best coaching jobs PC has done in his career. We lost, Sherm, Cam, BMax, Sheldon Richardson, MB, and Avril. K.J. Wright was out for the first seven games and we lost ET too.

Thats a lot of multi-All Pro/Pro Bowl players yet the defense is in the Top Ten statistically. And I don’t care who the GM is, no team will have a ready made pro bowl player as a back up. Which is why this is so impressive.

I like the direction this team is heading.

SoulfishHawk · Nov 19, 2018

Yep, plenty of "experts" had us at 4 or 5 wins. Wrong, as usual.

Sox-n-Hawks · Nov 19, 2018

truehawksfan":18wms4vz said:
Ah, can we stay on topic?

While the development of the Oline and emergence of the best run game is impressive, the national media had commented on the defense....saying it’s possibily one of the best coaching jobs PC has done in his career. We lost, Sherm, Cam, BMax, Sheldon Richardson, MB, and Avril. K.J. Wright was out for the first seven games and we lost ET too.

Thats a lot of multi-All Pro/Pro Bowl players yet the defense is in the Top Ten statistically. And I don’t care who the GM is, no team will have a ready made pro bowl player as a back up. Which is why this is so impressive.

I like the direction this team is heading.

Spot on. Pete Carroll is a great Coach and leader. I think one of his faults is not staying 100% true to his Always Compete mindset. Meaning, as a player or coach works longer for him, he overlooks some things. Pete’s flaw? Loyalty. Boy it’s hard to fault someone for being Loyal.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Remember when USA Today predicted 4 wins for the Seahawks?

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