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We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Coaching and play calling in the 4th quarter of all our losses has been pretty bad. Why in the world they just tried to let Russ sit back there against THAT D line makes zero sense.


    Yep. Why continue to call 5 and 7 step drops when Russell's getting killed all day. Move the pocket, roll out, quick screens, draw plays...........what's the definition of insanity? Continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

    That was our pass offense yesterday, insane.


    The thing about 5 and 7 step drops is that the 3 step only becomes conspicuously absent when there's a situation that would be apropos for using it - 3rd and less than 5. And yet, time and time again we see at least a 5 step drop and then some YAC abomination route and something that plays out less than ideal.
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  • 7 years in to his career, and they are STILL trying to make him do stuff that doesn't fit what his strengths are. Play action, rolling out, zone read etc. Meanwhile, teams are creating offenses that match their QB. Look at that Bears game in the 4th quarter, it was impressive the way they were coaching the offense.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:7 years in to his career, and they are STILL trying to make him do stuff that doesn't fit what his strengths are. Play action, rolling out, zone read etc. Meanwhile, teams are creating offenses that match their QB. Look at that Bears game in the 4th quarter, it was impressive the way they were coaching the offense.


    Russell had a lot of success from the pocket the last half of 2015. But yes, other than that stretch of games, his pocket protection and overall success from obvious passing downs has been bad.............especially against this version of the Rams with how good their front four is getting home.

    Which is my frustration. Try something else, anything.
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  • I just feel like other teams adjust and we don't. And losing games they should win, over and over again brings back bad memories.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:05 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:7 years in to his career, and they are STILL trying to make him do stuff that doesn't fit what his strengths are. Play action, rolling out, zone read etc. Meanwhile, teams are creating offenses that match their QB. Look at that Bears game in the 4th quarter, it was impressive the way they were coaching the offense.


    Russell had a lot of success from the pocket the last half of 2015. But yes, other than that stretch of games, his pocket protection and overall success from obvious passing downs has been bad.............especially against this version of the Rams with how good their front four is getting home.

    Which is my frustration. Try something else, anything.



    It just feels to me like Wilson is not fully comfortable in his role in a new Offense... also there has been no offensive line continuity... it feels like they struggle against elite competition at crucial times in which receivers are not getting open, pass protection is breaking down and there isnt the chemistry there used to be... it just takes time to come together... from the beginning of the season this is a vastly better team now and they are the best 4-5 team the NFL has ever seen...

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  • I think Aros makes a good point and Football Outsiders seem to say the same thing. In week nine, Seattle was #9 with a 11.4% DVOA. Now take consider the following. In our first nine games, Seattle has only played 3 home games TWO of which were against team in the top five (top tier) of DVOA (Rams and Chargers). I think we are a little too harsh about the way we played against the Chargers mainly because (like Seattle) the Chargers are sneaky good and haven't gotten a lot of national press for how good they really are. It was very unfortunate we had to play them. So our losses are against Chicago, Denver, Rams x2, and Chargers. Of the bunch only Denver is a bad team and we had to play them on week one before we got our faculties together and figured a few things out. Also don't forget that the line against Seattle was 10(!!) [Seattle was an easy wise-guy bet] which means the Rams were supposed to blow us out. ALL of these were close games.

    OTOH, consider our wins [Arizona, Cowboys, Detroit, Oakland]. None of these were especially in doubt nor should they haven been enough though the masses thought at the time Detroit was better.

    Now consider what we have left. The only road games left are at Carolina on Thanksgiving weekend, and at San Fran.

    We have San Fran twice, Arizona (at home). That should be three wins right there. We also have the Packers this Thursday. Rodgers is great but his team is a mess, and Green Bay on the Road is a shadow of the team it is at home. I believe we win this one too (Detroit is better than Green Bay right now). That's four. That leaves our two really tough games I see left on our schedule: Kansas City (at home) and Carolina (at home).

    Having watched Carolina, I am not impressed. I believe if Seattle plays to form (and it will be the first game after our mini-bye), we can beat Carolina. I am expecting us to lose against KC.

    My point is while being 4-5 sucks right now, if you compare us with other 4-5 teams (such as ATL), we are a lot better than our record indicates mainly because the teeth of our schedule and away games were incredibly front loaded with had an unfortunate effect with a team that is retooling this year.

    I predict that we go either 9-7 or 10-6. If we can gut out 10-6 I think we can sneak out a WC berth (not expecting much past that). 9-7 might not be enough.....but it could be.

    Just my take.
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  • Actually, we are what our record says we are. At the same time, if we can sneak into a wildcard berth, we are the team no one wants to play, because we are the team that sends division winners home one and done.
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  • seedhawk wrote:Actually, we are what our record says we are. At the same time, if we can sneak into a wildcard berth, we are the team no one wants to play, because we are the team that sends division winners home one and done.


    I respectfully disagree. I think raw record can be very deceptive depending on who a team has played and when (with all due respect to Bill Parcells). I believe this is such a case with Seattle. I am under no illusions that we are a top tier team this year, but I do think Seattle is a lot better than we seem on paper.
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  • Coaches are fired based on Wins and Losses.

    They are not fired by, "We really are a such and such record."

    Gimme a break.

    If the Seahawks are according to some a 6-3 team, the same can be said for other teams. Those other teams are really "undefeated..." blah blah blah.

    Whatever your reason is, the team is young and whatever, the truth is, coaches do not get that luxury in saying, "my team is young, so you shouldn't fire me cause I have a losing record."

    The truth all teams try to be young, talented and cheap.

    But not all teams can be, and those that aren't, generally have coaches on hot seats.

    With the Hawks appearing to be destined for new ownership, you can bet the pending owner is carefully watching the product on the field and not thinking, they're losing because they are "too young."

    In the NFL, if you don't field a collective cohesive talent, either all young, all veterans, or both, you're not gonna win consistently and your coach will probably no longer be your coach at the end of the season.

    In this league, you need talented players, either they are talented young, talented veterans and talented coaches to consistently win. The Seahawks are clearly lacking in all these areas which makes them exactly what their record is. Nothing more and nothing less.
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  • While I certainly agree that coaches are hired and fired based on wins and losses (there are other considerations usually, but I agree that's the main one), it's usually based on wins and losses for entire seasons. I suppose my main point is that judging Seattle as a 4-5 team before the rest of the season is complete makes as much sense as judging a student in a class before the term is over.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:7 years in to his career, and they are STILL trying to make him do stuff that doesn't fit what his strengths are. Play action, rolling out, zone read etc. Meanwhile, teams are creating offenses that match their QB. Look at that Bears game in the 4th quarter, it was impressive the way they were coaching the offense.

    This.

    That's why I think if you have a franchise QB, you need a good offensive minded head coach or a combo of damn good offensive coordinator/QB coach to get the most out of said franchise QB.

    Carroll will never be a great head coach to a great QB.

    Carroll (run, run, and try to play elite defense) will always be a head coach to a game manager QB.

    Carroll is held back by his own philosophy.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:12 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Coaches are fired based on Wins and Losses.

    They are not fired by, "We really are a such and such record."

    Gimme a break.

    If the Seahawks are according to some a 6-3 team, the same can be said for other teams. Those other teams are really "undefeated..." blah blah blah.

    Whatever your reason is, the team is young and whatever, the truth is, coaches do not get that luxury in saying, "my team is young, so you shouldn't fire me cause I have a losing record."

    The truth all teams try to be young, talented and cheap.

    But not all teams can be, and those that aren't, generally have coaches on hot seats.

    With the Hawks appearing to be destined for new ownership, you can bet the pending owner is carefully watching the product on the field and not thinking, they're losing because they are "too young."

    In the NFL, if you don't field a collective cohesive talent, either all young, all veterans, or both, you're not gonna win consistently and your coach will probably no longer be your coach at the end of the season.

    In this league, you need talented players, either they are talented young, talented veterans and talented coaches to consistently win. The Seahawks are clearly lacking in all these areas which makes them exactly what their record is. Nothing more and nothing less.


    So if you don't win right away you fire the coach, and then end up like the Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bills, etc.


    Great philosophy. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Packers, and you can look at the Cheifs as well sticking with Reid. are successful letting a staff build a team and supplementing pieces as needed. We are 4 - 5 and had a hell of a first half schedule and rebuilding, oops don't rebuild can't ever rebuild have to spend money on F.A. to just win now.


    That has worked well for the Redskins hasn't it.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Coaches are fired based on Wins and Losses.

    They are not fired by, "We really are a such and such record."

    Gimme a break.

    If the Seahawks are according to some a 6-3 team, the same can be said for other teams. Those other teams are really "undefeated..." blah blah blah.

    Whatever your reason is, the team is young and whatever, the truth is, coaches do not get that luxury in saying, "my team is young, so you shouldn't fire me cause I have a losing record."

    The truth all teams try to be young, talented and cheap.

    But not all teams can be, and those that aren't, generally have coaches on hot seats.

    With the Hawks appearing to be destined for new ownership, you can bet the pending owner is carefully watching the product on the field and not thinking, they're losing because they are "too young."

    In the NFL, if you don't field a collective cohesive talent, either all young, all veterans, or both, you're not gonna win consistently and your coach will probably no longer be your coach at the end of the season.

    In this league, you need talented players, either they are talented young, talented veterans and talented coaches to consistently win. The Seahawks are clearly lacking in all these areas which makes them exactly what their record is. Nothing more and nothing less.


    So if you don't win right away you fire the coach, and then end up like the Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bills, etc.


    Great philosophy. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Packers, and you can look at the Cheifs as well sticking with Reid. are successful letting a staff build a team and supplementing pieces as needed. We are 4 - 5 and had a hell of a first half schedule and rebuilding, oops don't rebuild can't ever rebuild have to spend money on F.A. to just win now.


    That has worked well for the Redskins hasn't it.


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  • There are plenty of teams in this league who are better than their record, mainly because of losing a lot of games they should have won. And are there plenty of teams who are not as good as their record, due to a crap schedule.
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  • Bigpumpkin wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:
    Whether scheme or lack of WR talent or issues with Russ, our passing attack needs changes.


    I'm thinking that Russ is beginning to slip in his skills. Yes...I know that he had a perfect game two games ago, but I'm not liking what I saw today. That final pass of the game on 4th down was way over Lockett's head....he used to be "dead on" in the past.


    Dude was planning on running moving full speed to the LOS, spotted Lockett at the last second and overthrew him. That should not be even close to "loss of skills" issue. Almost no one makes that throw. Especially 4th down with seconds to play. Gotta rein in the expectations. Wilson has missed plenty of those throws over the years, you just remember this one because it was crucial to the final nail in the coffin.
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  • Funny how people act like that was some easy throw while running forward to avoid a sack, and a corner right there. But I guess Russ is the only one who misses receivers.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Funny how people act like that was some easy throw while running forward to avoid a sack, and a corner right there. But I guess Russ is the only one who misses receivers.


    Not an easy throw at all........but a throw Russ has made, can make and SHOULD make if he thinks of himself as an elite QB in this league, and he'd tell you the same.
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  • Despite the record, I am more encouraged than discouraged this year. The Seahawks used to have the worst running game in the league and now they have the best.. The best years were when they had a top 5 running game... The last 2 years the Hawks neither had a top running game or a top defense. Now they have a top running game and Pete's specialty is defense. I would imagine the Hawks will have more cap space and draft ammunition to fix the defense in the future... not to mention you can count on future development of the young dline and secondary.
    Last edited by lukerguy on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I'm with your Largent, he usually does make that throw. Been a strange season overall, especially not finishing in all these losses.
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