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We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:24 pm
  • 4-5.

    Nope. I refuse to accept that paradigm. Yes we are 4-5 but this team is not a 4-5 team. I totally get if you disagree and I have no dog in this fight so take your argument elsewhere...

    This is a scrappy, YOUNG team learning to find their way. It's maddening at times. They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.

    Today's game's lost is due to the defense and Russell Wilson. Would love to hear other's thoughts.
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  • We're a young team on the ascendency. New system, massive player overhaul. We're getting better every game. LA might be the best team in the NFL. Making the playoffs would be a step forward from last year, even if we do it with 9 wins.

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  • Bill Parcells disagrees.
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  • Aros wrote:4-5.

    Nope. I refuse to accept that paradigm. Yes we are 4-5 but this team is not a 4-5 team. I totally get if you disagree and I have no dog in this fight so take your argument elsewhere...

    This is a scrappy, YOUNG team learning to find their way. It's maddening at times. They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.

    Today's game's lost is due to the defense and Russell Wilson. Would love to hear other's thoughts.



    I have said it before I have no expectations this year other then to see us improve and grow as the season progresses.


    Growth happens differently week to week, we saw Simmons get his first start and I never heard his name against a Division opponent that wanted to play pissed off and aggressive.


    That's a great thing, no news is good news for a O lineman and it shows we are gaining depth there, Penny Broke out this game with more carries and is over a 100 yards.



    We went to a hostile environment and played the number one offense in the league to a stalemate up to that onside kick, ( still scratching my head on that)


    We need a few more horses on defense, more time for the offense to gel and be expanded a bit, and the young guys to believe they can win anywhere at any time.


    It will come, I see a lot of good, they never quit all day long.
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  • Coaching and play calling/formations on both sides of the ball were piss poor.
    ...and don’t get me started on the onside kick decision. Doesn’t excuse the mistakes on the field by the players but the coaches crapped the bed today! Sorry if that is blunt in a “looking for a positive thread”, but it’s the facts.
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  • We have beaten the teams we should have (except Denver) and lost the ones we were expected to. The packers, Vikings and panters will shed some light. 2-1 and we are ascending. So far the sample size as to how we are doing is limited. You can’t say we suck because we lost to the rams twice and San Diego. You also can’t say it’s 2012 based upon wins over the raiders, lions and cards. I really think these 3 upcoming games are true measuring sticks.
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  • We need a few more horses on defense.....



    Two more horses on defence to be exact. Someone to step in and make up for the Michael Bennet sacks(we literally have no-one) and someone to step in and fill the Richard Sherman vacancy.
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  • I agree. Tough start to open the season but 4 and 3 since with all 3 losses being one score losses to playoff bound teams. Got to get back to .500 with a win on Thursday and then find a way to close the last 6 strong. Favorable schedule although tough with 4 of last 6 at home. There are a lot of 500 teams in the playoff hunt right now and Seahawks have some teams that are in the thick of it on their schedule so they have some control of their destiny. Packers game is a must win.
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  • We are about what most everyone expected this season. Good teams will win more of these close games. Average teams will lose more of them. We're a year or 2 away. We're a little outclassed at times-we need an infusion of more talent on D.

    Our running game is coming together, OL is indeed improved but our D has serious holes. Giving up more 3rd and long plays, pass rush frequently non-existent, average to poor corner play. And back on O, our passing game seems limited to play action. Whether scheme or lack of WR talent or issues with Russ, our passing attack needs changes.
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  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    Whether scheme or lack of WR talent or issues with Russ, our passing attack needs changes.


    I'm thinking that Russ is beginning to slip in his skills. Yes...I know that he had a perfect game two games ago, but I'm not liking what I saw today. That final pass of the game on 4th down was way over Lockett's head....he used to be "dead on" in the past.
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  • They're right where I thought they'd be.

    This is a growing/learning season for the young group.

    It's time to move on from KJ Wright. Austin Calitro would've helped our defense more today.

    I'm not disappointed at all after this game, or where the team is. But this is a 4-5 team, and will finish 8-8 imo.
    hawks85 wrote:Seattle played like crap today. It’s over 5-6.
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  • I totally agree, really hard to win when defense gives up 36 points. Granted, there was that sack-strip, which for the record happened in 2.6 seconds. But this is a tough young team with growing pains.

    I'm not as down on this team as others. This isn't a SB team, we're a border line playoff team that SHOULD make a major jump next year with more familiarity for Russ and this offense
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  • There are 4-5 teams that have been blown out. No one has blown us out. Not even. Bone head qb play and shitty refs are why we’re 4-5. I think we go as Russell goes.
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  • After today we're running the table and ending up 11-5. Maker my words...
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  • As Pete remarked in the post-game, they didn't take the ball away. The last two games the team has come frustratingly close to getting a tip, a pick, turnovers, but were just off in position enough to have the ball hit the ground.

    Law of averages says this will change. Just hope it changes in the next 4 days....
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  • 4-5 is exactly who we are so far. We cant beat a good team yet and its going to take a year or so.
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  • I still think the Hawks are a 9-7 or 10-6 at the end of the year.
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  • We are one good pass rusher away from the defense taking it to the next level. I will say they are an exciting 4-5 team. Frustrating at times but exciting all the same. If they get another good edge pass rusher and start attacking the middle of the field instead of always throwing for the sidelines, this team will take off IMHO. Was excited to see Penny start to play up to his potential. I expect him to have 3 more games like that the rest of the season. That would be a successful rookie year for Penny.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:4-5 is exactly who we are so far. We cant beat a good team yet and its going to take a year or so.


    Yeah

    Id say its closer to "we are better than the record... or better than many thought"


    But the team is 4-5 for good reasons.

    Im encouraged but still no idea what to expect heading into next week or next year
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  • If you started the season over today I think we are 6 and 3. The first two games were winnable be we hadn't figured things out yet, we were horrible in week 1 and 2 yet were still in those game. Run those back today and I say we win no problem.
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  • If you're not what your record says you are, then where exactly does it say what you really are?

    The play on the field? The play on field says the Seahawks are a .500 team at best.

    The players play the game but the coaches are equally responsible for the product on the field.

    The Seahawks are exactly what their record is. Not the best team, and not the worst.
    Last edited by TheLegendOfBoom on Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I see at least a couple games, including this last one, as failure to close. With this one, not even the onside kick, but the last drive.

    We are not a bad team, like Raiders bad. We just need to close in the 4q.
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  • I don't see this as a team that go can go into Super Saiyan mode, where they are 100x better than they are, which makes them exactly as their record says they are.

    1) The homefield mystique is pretty much gone. When we had some average teams under Holmgren, we still dominated home games.

    2) The Houdini come-back-from-behind fourth quarter miracle act is gone.

    3) The coaching/play calling has pretty much gotten stale and predictable. I like some of the new wrinkles this season, and I love the smash mouth, impose-your-will, run game as much as the next guy, but that style really needs a top notch defense as others have pointed out. We've whiffed too much in the talent acquisition department in recent off seasons. And while their development is encouraging, it's not where we need to be at this particular point in time to be legit contenders.

    4) Wilson, as much as I love what he has done for franchise, has pretty much peaked talent wise. He still throws a sexy deep ball, but there are other times where his play makes me cringe. His fundamentals are lacking and he's not playing as care-free as when he first started. His play is not what I expect from a top tier veteran QB, but maybe it's just my expectations, so don't knock me too much for that. I still like Wilson a lot.

    5) This is still a fun and competitive team to watch. They are pretty much in every game. The scheming leaves something to be desired, and they're not bottom feeders, but they simply don't have the make up, to be considered anything better than an average team at this point.
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  • Defense can't stop good teams fact . O-line can't block good defenses fact. Wilson struggles to see over the middle and get the ball out quickly fact. We are what our record says we are.
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  • I am drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to how much growth we have seen out of this young team. Did any of us expect to be number one in rushing and top 5-6 in defense halfway through the season? I sure as hell didn't.

    Still, you can clearly tell this team is going through growing pains. They are good, trying to learn how to be great. That will take another season or two.

    If I am to be critical, I would put my attention on Russell and the lack of pass rush. Russell can be so money at times, yet mind-boggingly average - or worse - at crucial times which really bothers me. How much of that is Russ trying to fit into the new Schotty Scheme and how much of that is on Russ just not playing to his potential?

    The lack of pass rush is easier to diagnose. We just don't have the horses. We need to draft more pass rushers period. Frank is getting lost out there in double teams and nobody else seems to be stepping up.

    Game of inches. We say it every year. We should be 6-3 not 4-5.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:After today we're running the table and ending up 11-5. Maker my words...


    Love your attitude!!!

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  • It's been entertaining to watch this year for the most part. Earl going down was a huge turning point for this team. A very tough schedule ahead and I still see the team finishing anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 depending on health. A few areas to improve on moving fwd but a much better team to watch than last year.
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  • Aros wrote:I am drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to how much growth we have seen out of this young team. Did any of us expect to be number one in rushing and top 5-6 in defense halfway through the season? I sure as hell didn't.

    Still, you can clearly tell this team is going through growing pains. They are good, trying to learn how to be great. That will take another season or two.

    If I am to be critical, I would put my attention on Russell and the lack of pass rush. Russell can be so money at times, yet mind-boggingly average - or worse - at crucial times which really bothers me. How much of that is Russ trying to fit into the new Schotty Scheme and how much of that is on Russ just not playing to his potential?

    The lack of pass rush is easier to diagnose. We just don't have the horses. We need to draft more pass rushers period. Frank is getting lost out there in double teams and nobody else seems to be stepping up.

    Game of inches. We say it every year. We should be 6-3 not 4-5.


    I'll say this when I saw that empty backfield late in the fourth against that pass rush I new it would end horribly that wasn't Wilson's fault .However after every game played this year i'm more and more convinced Wilson is holding back our passing game.
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  • I agree with most of your comment except the play by Russell Wilson. For the most part, I thought he was pretty good.

    He had few great moments (the thread the needle touchdown pass) and the play action to the right sideline (while narrowly escaping).

    However, the absence of BJ Fluker allowed Donald and Suh to pressure and sack Wilson in addition to the strip-sack. This didn't look good on Russell.

    Just like a tripod is off balance if missing a leg, the O-line needed Fluker. If he had played, then maybe the story would read differently.

    Remember the last time we played the Rams, Fluker 'Pancaked Suh'? He was able to neutralize two dominant players.
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  • BleuEyedHawk wrote:I agree with most of your comment except the play by Russell Wilson. For the most part, I thought he was pretty good.

    He had few great moments (the thread the needle touchdown pass) and the play action to the right sideline (while narrowly escaping).

    However, the absence of BJ Fluker allowed Donald and Suh to pressure and sack Wilson in addition to the strip-sack. This didn't look good on Russell.

    Just like a tripod is off balance if missing a leg, the O-line needed Fluker. If he had played, then maybe the story would read differently.

    Remember the last time we played the Rams, Fluker 'Pancaked Suh'? He was able to neutralize two dominant players.



    Mmmm....Look, everybody knows I am a huge Russ fan, (fanboy some would say and I could give a rip), I think the world of him as both a player and human being. But if we are being perfectly honest, I would say Russ is off this year. Not horribly off, but off. Yes he will still have his 200+ yards passing and 2-3 TD average per game but it's the critical errors at the most critical times that has my attention.

    His pocket presence is terrible when it comes to the pass rush. It's one step, two steps, three steps, four steps...OH SHIT!

    SACK.

    It gets old. What happened to the Russ of old that would diagnose a play, get out of trouble and make positive yards out of nothing? That was his forte man! It just feels and looks like he is thinking too much instead of reacting and using his God-given ability to make magic out of nothing.

    I love Russ. I still want to pay the man top dollar. But he needs to step up and be that player we all know he is.
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  • This does feel like a 4-5 team to me though. Like, beat some scrubs, come up short against good teams. I'd be kinda mad if I thought they were just flat out bad or playing way below their level.
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  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Aros wrote:I am drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to how much growth we have seen out of this young team. Did any of us expect to be number one in rushing and top 5-6 in defense halfway through the season? I sure as hell didn't.

    Still, you can clearly tell this team is going through growing pains. They are good, trying to learn how to be great. That will take another season or two.

    If I am to be critical, I would put my attention on Russell and the lack of pass rush. Russell can be so money at times, yet mind-boggingly average - or worse - at crucial times which really bothers me. How much of that is Russ trying to fit into the new Schotty Scheme and how much of that is on Russ just not playing to his potential?

    The lack of pass rush is easier to diagnose. We just don't have the horses. We need to draft more pass rushers period. Frank is getting lost out there in double teams and nobody else seems to be stepping up.

    Game of inches. We say it every year. We should be 6-3 not 4-5.


    I'll say this when I saw that empty backfield late in the fourth against that pass rush I new it would end horribly that wasn't Wilson's fault .However after every game played this year i'm more and more convinced Wilson is holding back our passing game.



    Holding back our passing game? In a new offense that he's learning after 7 years? You do also realize he changes run plays at the line of scrimmage, and defenses still account for him, hence a large part of the offense's success?

    I understand that there's more of a microscope in Wilson's limited opportunities, but he's making efficient and tight window throws in this offense. Seems a bit over the top and overly critical. Especially since we're losing to teams so far that are way more talented from top to bottom. Your logic sounds like basically, Russell has to play perfect to be considered "good"

    Every high fly offense in this league has a lot of what we don't. Wilson and Tyler Lockett for that matter are impressive in this offense in the sense that they only get about 20 attempts a game
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  • Aros wrote:
    BleuEyedHawk wrote:I agree with most of your comment except the play by Russell Wilson. For the most part, I thought he was pretty good.

    He had few great moments (the thread the needle touchdown pass) and the play action to the right sideline (while narrowly escaping).

    However, the absence of BJ Fluker allowed Donald and Suh to pressure and sack Wilson in addition to the strip-sack. This didn't look good on Russell.

    Just like a tripod is off balance if missing a leg, the O-line needed Fluker. If he had played, then maybe the story would read differently.

    Remember the last time we played the Rams, Fluker 'Pancaked Suh'? He was able to neutralize two dominant players.



    Mmmm....Look, everybody knows I am a huge Russ fan, (fanboy some would say and I could give a rip), I think the world of him as both a player and human being. But if we are being perfectly honest, I would say Russ is off this year. Not horribly off, but off. Yes he will still have his 200+ yards passing and 2-3 TD average per game but it's the critical errors at the most critical times that has my attention.

    His pocket presence is terrible when it comes to the pass rush. It's one step, two steps, three steps, four steps...OH SHIT!

    SACK.

    It gets old. What happened to the Russ of old that would diagnose a play, get out of trouble and make positive yards out of nothing? That was his forte man! It just feels and looks like he is thinking too much instead of reacting and using his God-given ability to make magic out of nothing.

    I love Russ. I still want to pay the man top dollar. But he needs to step up and be that player we all know he is.


    Fair opinion however, I'm willing to be that if you time his sacks today, he was not given much to work with. On the strip sack fumble, Fowler beat Brown in 2.6 seconds. In other words, Russ looks in that moment like a QB that lacks presence when really he was trying to get rid of the ball quickly while hanging in the pocket.

    Other than that, in a low pass volume offense where EVERY throw is focused on, I think Wilson is doing about as well as most QBs would do, especially in a new offense. I don't know if he's off, I just don't think he looks completely comfortable yet
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  • Aros wrote:4-5.

    Nope. I refuse to accept that paradigm. Yes we are 4-5 but this team is not a 4-5 team. I totally get if you disagree and I have no dog in this fight so take your argument elsewhere...

    This is a scrappy, YOUNG team learning to find their way. It's maddening at times. They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.

    Today's game's lost is due to the defense and Russell Wilson. Would love to hear other's thoughts.


    I agree with what you are saying only I have a different take...I think the Hawks are just not making the clutch plays when it counts... I'm reminded of Kerse...That guy always found a way to get open and Wilson always found a way to get him the ball in a critical situation... That's not happening this year this is apparent in everyone of their losses...

    Im not discouraged in this loss... This team can play with anyone in the NFL...If they just keep working hard and believing they are going to bust lose...If This team makes the playoffs watch out! the way I see it, they can afford to lose one maybe 2 more... This is a championship run... If they can just make the playoffs they will be tough to beat because of this schedule.. I'll say it again this is a championship run...

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  • Aros wrote:4-5.
    They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.



    So 4-5 sounds about right then. Gotcha.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:36 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:
    Aros wrote:4-5.
    They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.



    So 4-5 sounds about right then. Gotcha.


    Nope.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:03 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Aros wrote:4-5.

    Nope. I refuse to accept that paradigm. Yes we are 4-5 but this team is not a 4-5 team. I totally get if you disagree and I have no dog in this fight so take your argument elsewhere...

    This is a scrappy, YOUNG team learning to find their way. It's maddening at times. They are capable of greatness, yet capable of dog crap on the same breath.

    Today's game's lost is due to the defense and Russell Wilson. Would love to hear other's thoughts.



    I have said it before I have no expectations this year other then to see us improve and grow as the season progresses.


    Growth happens differently week to week, we saw Simmons get his first start and I never heard his name against a Division opponent that wanted to play pissed off and aggressive.


    That's a great thing, no news is good news for a O lineman and it shows we are gaining depth there, Penny Broke out this game with more carries and is over a 100 yards.



    We went to a hostile environment and played the number one offense in the league to a stalemate up to that onside kick, ( still scratching my head on that)


    We need a few more horses on defense, more time for the offense to gel and be expanded a bit, and the young guys to believe they can win anywhere at any time.


    It will come, I see a lot of good, they never quit all day long.


    :ditto:
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:09 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:4-5 is exactly who we are so far. We cant beat a good team yet and its going to take a year or so.


    Yeah

    Id say its closer to "we are better than the record... or better than many thought"


    But the team is 4-5 for good reasons.

    Im encouraged but still no idea what to expect heading into next week or next year


    I'm actually optimistic for the future. While the team is missing a few pieces that enable them to hit that next level, it appears they might be on the cusp.

    Some of those coaching decisions though,,,,,,,urgh.
    Last edited by pittpnthrs on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:13 pm
  • Aros wrote:
    BleuEyedHawk wrote:I agree with most of your comment except the play by Russell Wilson. For the most part, I thought he was pretty good.

    He had few great moments (the thread the needle touchdown pass) and the play action to the right sideline (while narrowly escaping).

    However, the absence of BJ Fluker allowed Donald and Suh to pressure and sack Wilson in addition to the strip-sack. This didn't look good on Russell.

    Just like a tripod is off balance if missing a leg, the O-line needed Fluker. If he had played, then maybe the story would read differently.

    Remember the last time we played the Rams, Fluker 'Pancaked Suh'? He was able to neutralize two dominant players.



    Mmmm....Look, everybody knows I am a huge Russ fan, (fanboy some would say and I could give a rip), I think the world of him as both a player and human being. But if we are being perfectly honest, I would say Russ is off this year. Not horribly off, but off. Yes he will still have his 200+ yards passing and 2-3 TD average per game but it's the critical errors at the most critical times that has my attention.

    His pocket presence is terrible when it comes to the pass rush. It's one step, two steps, three steps, four steps...OH SHIT!

    SACK.

    It gets old. What happened to the Russ of old that would diagnose a play, get out of trouble and make positive yards out of nothing? That was his forte man! It just feels and looks like he is thinking too much instead of reacting and using his God-given ability to make magic out of nothing.

    I love Russ. I still want to pay the man top dollar. But he needs to step up and be that player we all know he is.


    I dont see much difference. He is just slower and game film has been out on his escape plans. Im shocked on how much people have switched on Russ as a player. He has been consistent for the most part as a qb minus his running.

    We had the D and RB before Russ and our offense PPG was 23rd. Russ is a top 10 qb. He has cost us a cpl games this yr but today wasnt one of em.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:15 pm
  • I think with another pass rusher and Kendrick back the team is 6-3 rn at worse. Im excited for rest of yr and next yr.
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Re: We Are Not What Our Record Says We Are
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:18 pm
  • Aros wrote:I am drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to how much growth we have seen out of this young team. Did any of us expect to be number one in rushing and top 5-6 in defense halfway through the season? I sure as hell didn't.

    Still, you can clearly tell this team is going through growing pains. They are good, trying to learn how to be great. That will take another season or two.

    If I am to be critical, I would put my attention on Russell and the lack of pass rush. Russell can be so money at times, yet mind-boggingly average - or worse - at crucial times which really bothers me. How much of that is Russ trying to fit into the new Schotty Scheme and how much of that is on Russ just not playing to his potential?

    The lack of pass rush is easier to diagnose. We just don't have the horses. We need to draft more pass rushers period. Frank is getting lost out there in double teams and nobody else seems to be stepping up.

    Game of inches. We say it every year. We should be 6-3 not 4-5.


    I think it's the offense, Wilson is suppose to read and know who 1 - 5 options are and what the hot read is, Schotty holds him accountable for this, Schotty's offense is not black and white in this regard as well. These are the hiccups I think by seasons end will get better as he reads faster and the ball comes out faster which will eliminate the holding the ball sacks a lot more.
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    chris98251
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  • Nope, this team is real close to being very good again. They will start winning these games at end and be right back in the mix. You are seeing improvement, especially in the running game.
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    SoulfishHawk
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  • The records speaks for itself. We are a young, scrappy .500 team.

    But, wasn’t this the case in 2011? I really like what I see with this team and with a couple of good breaks, we can win 10 games.
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  • As I said in another thread, this team is good, but we're good to the point where we can stay in games and give teams a hard time. There's something missing, and I agree, Russ has been off. The past two games, he's missed four wide open receivers on throws that he usually makes.

    I'm kinda looking towards next season already, because I know playoffs are out of the question. I'm moving on from KJ, I haven't liked what I've seen from him, and I'm hoping Kendricks doesn't get much jail time, so we can re-sign him.

    We're a good team, and we'll be in a bunch of games, but playoffs are out of the question. Next year is when the fun should begin.
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  • I think our record is exactly who we are right now. This is a transition year. I think we finish 7-9 or the dreaded 8-8.
    Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.
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    ImTheScientist
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  • Well, imo we are better than the record says. But I'm just a homer, and damn proud of it.
    Doesn't feel like a 4-5 team to me. But, we knew this would be an up and down season all year, and we are seeing it. The running game and being in the mix in every game is a surprise though.
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    SoulfishHawk
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  • Seahawks are definitely a younger team on the rise. We got spoiled watching peak LOB operate. Those guys could practically read each other minds which is why they were elite.

    This squad has the talent but is still not playing like a cohesive unit. Chalk it up to youth and inexperience.
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    12thbrah
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  • Our record is about where I thought we'd be this year, but the team overall is further along then I'd thought it'd be.

    The lack of depth and playmakers on defense is our Achilles heal right now, especially along the D-line. Just not getting those big plays at key times of the game in order to win these close games.

    Fowler's strip sack of Russell? That used to be us, as soon as our D can do that? We'll be back in the mix.
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    Sgt. Largent
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  • Coaching and play calling in the 4th quarter of all our losses has been pretty bad. Why in the world they just tried to let Russ sit back there against THAT D line makes zero sense.
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    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Coaching and play calling in the 4th quarter of all our losses has been pretty bad. Why in the world they just tried to let Russ sit back there against THAT D line makes zero sense.


    Yep. Why continue to call 5 and 7 step drops when Russell's getting killed all day. Move the pocket, roll out, quick screens, draw plays...........what's the definition of insanity? Continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

    That was our pass offense yesterday, insane.
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