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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:11 pm
  • cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 pm
  • Maybe my eyes are lieing to me but Penny looks overweight and slow. Will be interesting to see this offseason if he is asked to shed some pounds for some speed.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:58 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).


    If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

    People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

    Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:13 pm
  • Penny is not overpaid. Like everybody else he is being paid based on an expectation of future production. He is the 29th highest paid RB in the league with a 2018 cap hit of $1.9m and those are fair for his potential. If players were free agents directly out of college Penny would have gotten a larger paycheck.

    The Hawks overall are just 24th in the NFL at RB spending with $4.6m total spent for Penny, Carson, Prosise, and Davis combined. For a run first team they are definitely not overpaying their RB group.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:15 pm
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).


    If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

    People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

    Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.


    Frank Clark, Dion Jordan, and Mingo (tweeter de/lb) are all first rounders. Jarran Reed is 2nd rd pick. They have plenty of DL guys who were in top of the draft. They also burned a top pick on McDowell the year prior. They have spent plenty of draft capital on the defensive side. The offense was a weakness last season, running being the weakest of it. Therefore the logic of the Penny pick. He’s a rookie and still has a big upside.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:20 pm
  • I agree RB was a need, but i said dire need. I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth. 2 or 3 positions on the OL, DL, CB and S were bigger needs imo. Too many people think that a 1st rd pick have to contribute immediately or they are a bust. Fortunately, the FO is a little more patient. If Penny would have started from day 1, I think we would see a different runner at this point in the season.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:41 pm
  • This whole bust labeling after less than a year needs to stop.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:42 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).


    If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

    People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

    Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.


    Frank Clark, Dion Jordan, and Mingo (tweeter de/lb) are all first rounders. Jarran Reed is 2nd rd pick. They have plenty of DL guys who were in top of the draft. They also burned a top pick on McDowell the year prior. They have spent plenty of draft capital on the defensive side. The offense was a weakness last season, running being the weakest of it. Therefore the logic of the Penny pick. He’s a rookie and still has a big upside.


    With losing Avril and Bennett, our lack of pass rush and ability to stop the run was a major concern entering the draft, the season and the present. Regarding Jordan-how is it we needed insurance for Carson but would rely on Jordan for health? And Clark was actually a 2nd rounder (63rd pick) not that it matters though because as we saw with our great ‘13 DL, you can never have enough quality pass rushers and DL in general. I understand your argument we needed/need a dynamic offensive playmaker-a real difference maker but impact guys like Gurley are so rare that you’re better off going the early rounds with defense-the hallmark of Pete.

    Regardless, Penny hasn’t earned anything here so far and Mike Davis has fairly beaten him out on the depth chart. That is reality and if Pete really thought Penny was better, he’d have him out there every game. If you’re good enough as a rookie on offense, Pete will play you as he did with Carson last year, Rawls in ‘15, Wilson in ‘12, Baldwin in ‘11 etc.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:25 pm
  • cheese22 wrote:I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.


    You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:14 am
  • penny looks to be shifty, yet unsure, and not yet used to the speed of the nfl game. there's a sort of, as yet untapped, 'slipperiness' about him though that is just waiting to bust out. it's tough to know how fast he'll turn out to be, because he's wrestling with the mental aspect of nfl speeds.but it looks like he'll be able to be a regular back, with 4-5 ypc for at least a couple or three seasons. it's a good thing to have him on the roster. he could end up being a hall of famer... that's probably no more outlandish than declaring him already a bust.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:12 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.


    You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

    Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

    Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

    What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:23 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).


    If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

    People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

    Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.


    Last season there were people bashing on Davis. He must have done something wrong for us to be praising him now. Or maybe it was that he has had some experience in this system and can see the holes better now. Ach...nevermind. :evil:

    Penny needs the same time to learn to see the creases and seams. They are different and he is getting there. But people will bash him because they want it all NOW. Too bad Penny was not available last season...he would have been much better this season then. :roll:
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:24 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.


    You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

    Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

    Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

    What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.


    This was not a good draft for offensive linemen.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:54 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:It's safe to say that most teams that pick a RB in the 1st rd have a dire need there. Seattle didn't which made the pick more confusing than just considering who it was. To me it looks like he's over thinking instead of cutting loose. He's too talented to not contribute.
    And all those small school commenters should remember another guy who came from that same school. Marshall Faulk had a pretty good career.


    I disagree with your opinion. I believe there was a need. Carson was coming off an injury, Prosise is never healthy and Davis, while steady, is not a featured type of back. McKissic is not a RB. The running back position was questionable at best.

    Penny graded out well at the combine. He was one of the top performers at his position. It was a good pick and I believe it still is. He's young and learning the ropes. He hasn't gotten consistent reps. He's getting 4 here, 1 there, 5 there, and so on.

    Here's Pete's quote - “He needs to just be more involved,” Carroll said on Wednesday. “I think he just needs to keep getting attempts and get out there and play. Just get accustomed to everything that’s going on around him. Big volume player (in college), lot of plays, lot of carries when he played. He’s getting spot play so it’s difficult to go and just make that commitment at this time because we have other guys that have been really effective as well. We’re just bringing him along and hoping that we can acclimate him and see him at his best. He’s got a lot to offer us that we know of and so it’s just going to be a matter of time.” (link to the full article - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/08/pete-carroll-says-rashaad-penny-has-a-lot-to-offer-seahawks-just-needs-to-be-more-involved/).


    If we really needed a RB as an insurance policy for Carson then we sure as hell didn’t need to reach for a 2nd to 3rd graded guy in the 1st round. It was a very deep draft for RBs and there were options for backs in the 3rd round and down. It sure would’ve been nice to have an improved DL but instead we get to read everyone’s slew of excuses every week for the league’s slowest and worst KR.

    People won’t admit it but it sure appears many are enthralled with draft status as opposed to objectively evaluating the talent on the team. If Mike Davis we’re averaging only 3.5 a carry and only 17.5 per kick return, people would be bashing him left and right. People apparently love “potential” and the unknown.

    Now Penny has shown to be effective on toss sweeps and catching passes in the flare-he has shown thus far he could contribute as a 3rd down back perhaps. But for those arguing he just hasn’t been given a chance, don’t forget he was given the most carries the 1st 2 games-the opportunity to be the man and he struggled poorly. He has to earn carries here on out, not be handed the torch like many of you want.


    To be fair, that is exactly what Mike Davis averaged last year here. 3.5 YPC. His first 2 years he averaged 2.0 YPC with the whiners.
    Obviously that Oline was not as good, so your point is still valid. My biggest gripe is starting every drive (after a score) on the 15 when putting nobody back there would get you to the 25. That is hurting the team just to get him touches. :pukeface:
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:09 am
  • From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

    Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
    RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:31 am
  • themunn wrote:From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

    Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
    RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.


    Last year Cable was still ruining the offensive line. The love child of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders couldn't have run behind that line.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:56 am
  • You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:04 am
  • edogg23 wrote:You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...


    Agree on not passing the eye test. Could he possibly make someone miss....just once even? In both his runs, and kick returns, he cannot make anyone miss! He gets touched and he's going down. No matter what. That is not something you will see from any very good running back. Hell even Wilson who was slower out of College then Penny makes people miss all the time.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:20 am
  • Jeremy517 wrote:
    themunn wrote:From week 5 onwards last season, Seattle running backs averaged less than 60yog COMBINED. Seattle rbs ran for 200 yards LESS than the 31st ranked team over the season. They were by far the worst unit in the league.

    Chris Carson was a 2nd year player with 208 yards and a season ending injury to his name. Remember Thomas Rawls?
    RB was 100% our biggest priority going into the draft.


    Last year Cable was still ruining the offensive line. The love child of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders couldn't have run behind that line.


    Lynch did.

    Carson did, before he was injured.

    The RB matters. It's not all about the offensive line and the few remaining people who insist we keep blowing first-round picks on nothing but OL need to examine the stats more carefully. QB/RB play are both heavily influential on the running game. It's not just "OL can make anyone better".
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:37 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    edogg23 wrote:You don’t need a ton of carries to see if a player is running fast or not. I don’t get why but he appears to be running slower than in college. There is a noticeable drop off in burst between him and Carson and Davis, when he should theoretically be the quickest of the 3. I don’t get it...


    Agree on not passing the eye test. Could he possibly make someone miss....just once even? In both his runs, and kick returns, he cannot make anyone miss! He gets touched and he's going down. No matter what. That is not something you will see from any very good running back. Hell even Wilson who was slower out of College then Penny makes people miss all the time.


    Agreed. There's a big difference between game speed and combine speed. Some guys are equally fast, others are gamers and elevate their quickness and entire level of play in games. Others like Penny thus far are far less fast than their clocked times.

    Some players are instinctive amd decisive while others look like they're panicking. Penny appears to have a lack of confidence in his game, is hesitant, goes down on 1st contact as you said and per the eye test lacks NFL high level acceleration. Hopefully he improves.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:12 pm
  • We fired our O-line coach because he sucked. We fired our OC because he sucked

    We said that the biggest issues with our O-line was because of coaching

    We saw AC go to Baltimore and show he was a competent NFL runner

    We had several RBs on our roster that was probably (they were) looking worse because of all the above

    We blew our first round year before on a D-line player because we were in dire need of pass rush

    We lost Avril and Bennett

    Our primary need was NOT a RB and everything the organization had done up to the draft agreed with that
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:48 pm
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    xray wrote:He got his chance with Carson out....11 yards on 4 carries...1st round bust...IMO

    He was at 4.7 ypc till the 4th run where Hunt blew his assignment and Penny was tackled as he got the handoff.

    Let’s be real....
    1)you didn’t watch the game.
    2)Penny hasn’t been given a chance
    3)to say bust and anyone that does instantly proves their opinion wrong and level of NFL knowledge low.

    I approve of this message.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:48 pm
  • mikeak wrote:We fired our O-line coach because he sucked. We fired our OC because he sucked

    We said that the biggest issues with our O-line was because of coaching

    We saw AC go to Baltimore and show he was a competent NFL runner

    We had several RBs on our roster that was probably (they were) looking worse because of all the above

    We blew our first round year before on a D-line player because we were in dire need of pass rush

    We lost Avril and Bennett

    Our primary need was NOT a RB and everything the organization had done up to the draft agreed with that


    I guess you know the team more then Pete & John...Last year Wilson lead the team in rushing...Seem like a logical choice to draft a RB. Remember we turn our 17th pick into 27th pick & also 3rd round pick got RB & our futrue Bennett Replacement with Green.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:40 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    cheese22 wrote:I don't think you spend your 1st on a position that just needs depth.


    You do when your offensive scheme is as reliant on the run as Pete Carroll's is.

    Not necessarily. The offensive line is far more important to the success of the running game, as well as the ability to execute those long developing passing plays that Pete loves. We had the chance at a REALLY good lineman and took a running back instead.

    Now, I'm sure people are going to chime in and say "but our line is playing well now!". I'd counter that rebut that claim by pointing out that D.J Fluker, and J.R Sweezy have had trouble staying healthy. Furthermore, J.R Sweezy and DJ Fluker have ranged from very good, to poor in play last season, especially in pass blocking. I do not believe that they are tenable solutions for the future going forward due to durability and consistency issues in their pasts. I think Sweezy in particular is living on borrowed time with his back problems. Our LT is also an issue that we must address some time in the near future. Brown is at the age that players start declining and start becoming ineffective and injury prone. Best case scenario is he plays for three more years like Walt did. Our line is going to need some retooling soon, or we'll go back to the same garbage we had in 2017. We could have locked down that left guard spot for YEARS.

    What did we do instead? We drafted a running back in the first round, in a class that was considered particularly deep at the position. He got beat out by a 7th round pick, and a career journeyman. What is worse is the fact that right now Penny is being out performed by both the backs picked before and AFTER him. There are several backs that have performed worse, but most of them have out performed Penny thus far. Now, people may say "BUT IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE" I have to say, I don't believe it is ever wise to draft a running back in the first unless you believe he is going to have an immediate impact. There have been some backs that have done well after lackluster first years, but I don't think redshirting/sitting is what the teams had in mind for these players when they drafted them in the first.


    This was not a good draft for offensive linemen.

    There was one right where we picked... If turns out he is also the best lineman in the draft thus far. That player would be Hernandez.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:36 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Lynch did.

    Carson did, before he was injured.

    The RB matters. It's not all about the offensive line and the few remaining people who insist we keep blowing first-round picks on nothing but OL need to examine the stats more carefully. QB/RB play are both heavily influential on the running game. It's not just "OL can make anyone better".


    I don't think you even looked at the context of the post that I made. His point was that the pick was justified because he said that RB was the biggest position of need, but you bring up that we had a good running back already on the roster? That would make his point even more wrong. You think Carson is a good RB. Guess what? So do I. RB was nowhere near the biggest position of need.

    Regarding last year's line:
    I'm not sure if you're arguing that the line wasn't crap last year? Also:
    Lynch never ran behind last year's line. He has been gone for three years.
    Carson's sample size from last year is too small to draw any conclusions. 15% of his yards last year came on one run. Without that one run, he would have been at 3.7 ypc. Way too small of a sample size. But again, are you really arguing that the line last year was good?

    I did not say we needed to spend more first-round picks on OL. With regards to the OL, we did what we needed to do: get rid of Cable. There are positions other than RB and OL, though, and many of those were positions of need.

    RB matters, absolutely it does, but RB is also one of the easiest positions to get in later rounds, and RBs almost always get used up (physically) relatively young. People that say that you shouldn't draft a RB in the first round don't mean that RB isn't important or that any RB can be good behind the right OL. So many good RBs come from later rounds or even undrafted. Part of judging a draft pick is where the pick was made. Sebastian Janikowski has had a very good career, but drafting him 17th overall was still a dumb move by the Riaders.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:43 pm
  • It's far too soon to write Penny off. I think we all have massive hopes for a first round pick but he wouldn't be the first talented player to have a slow start, so I don't see any reason to worry but he definitely hasn't performed yet. If he looks like this at this point next year, then I'd worry but he's still adapting, so it's not a concern yet.

    The other thing to consider is that whilst the offensive line has been great to watch this year, the run blocking hasn't been brilliant. A lot of Penny's runs really are straight into a wall, and even though Carson is performing well, he's doing that by breaking tackles. Penny hasn't had it easy this year, and that's not a dig at the O-Line because I've loved watching them this year, but the run blocking could be better, I think a lot of Penny's failings has been to do with the fact he's not having lanes open to him when he's in the game.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:39 pm
  • I just looked at the stats of all RBs drafted last draft. You pretty much have to go to the bottom of the 4th round to find a RB that has sucked as bad as Penny. Then there are some better RBs after that. A lot of us hated the pick the second it was announced. Crappy job JS and PC.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:05 am
  • BoltonWanderer wrote:It's far too soon to write Penny off. I think we all have massive hopes for a first round pick but he wouldn't be the first talented player to have a slow start, so I don't see any reason to worry but he definitely hasn't performed yet. If he looks like this at this point next year, then I'd worry but he's still adapting, so it's not a concern yet.

    The other thing to consider is that whilst the offensive line has been great to watch this year, the run blocking hasn't been brilliant. A lot of Penny's runs really are straight into a wall, and even though Carson is performing well, he's doing that by breaking tackles. Penny hasn't had it easy this year, and that's not a dig at the O-Line because I've loved watching them this year, but the run blocking could be better, I think a lot of Penny's failings has been to do with the fact he's not having lanes open to him when he's in the game.



    I agree. YPC is very average compared with other teams. I love this style of football but our line is average IMO. It feels better than it is after watching them the last few years.

    Carson has been unfortunate staying healthy going back to college.Hopefully his luck changes but i wouldnt offer him a large contract and wouldnt be opposed to drafting another RB next year as insurance against injuries or the chance people are right about Penny.

    If you are going to be a running team you need horses you can depend on.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:00 am
  • I wouldn't put money on the first year being the best indicator of success. He has good nuts and bolts and will develop with time. Was he worth a first round pick? Well, he isn't injured yet. Durability goes a long way with RBs. Let's take a look at some pros who started slow.

    1. Peyton Manning, threw almost 30 interceptions and went 3-13
    2. Arian Foster couldn't even start for the Texans and turned into a pro bowl caliber back
    3. Deuce Mcallister couldn't buy a start his first season, went on to be a total badass for the Aints
    4. OJ Simpson didn't start a single game his first year, 3.9 yards per attempt.... another badass
    5. Walter Peyton averaged 3.5yds his first season



    The list could go on and on. Patience, lets see what develops.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:28 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:I wouldn't put money on the first year being the best indicator of success. He has good nuts and bolts and will develop with time. Was he worth a first round pick? Well, he isn't injured yet. Durability goes a long way with RBs. Let's take a look at some pros who started slow.

    1. Peyton Manning, threw almost 30 interceptions and went 3-13
    2. Arian Foster couldn't even start for the Texans and turned into a pro bowl caliber back
    3. Deuce Mcallister couldn't buy a start his first season, went on to be a total badass for the Aints
    4. OJ Simpson didn't start a single game his first year, 3.9 yards per attempt.... another badass
    5. Walter Peyton averaged 3.5yds his first season

    The list could go on and on. Patience, lets see what develops.



    This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Players develop at their own pace, some jump right out of the gate, some kick in down the straight. Penny is trailing bunch of other backs drafted after him, no doubt about that, can he pull a Sea biscuits down the straight? let's see.

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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:43 pm
  • Like ifedi. Like others, fans need to let players settle in.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:54 pm
  • There are far far more examples of players that came in, sucked off the bat and then were out of the league. To cherry pick the exceptions doesn’t make Penny likely to be one.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:55 pm
  • Jeremy517 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Lynch did.

    Carson did, before he was injured.

    The RB matters. It's not all about the offensive line and the few remaining people who insist we keep blowing first-round picks on nothing but OL need to examine the stats more carefully. QB/RB play are both heavily influential on the running game. It's not just "OL can make anyone better".


    I don't think you even looked at the context of the post that I made. His point was that the pick was justified because he said that RB was the biggest position of need, but you bring up that we had a good running back already on the roster? That would make his point even more wrong. You think Carson is a good RB. Guess what? So do I. RB was nowhere near the biggest position of need.


    Carson is a good running back...when he's healthy. He suffered a major injury in high school, one in college, and one in the NFL, as well as getting dinged up this season. Frankly, it made good sense to draft another RB.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:08 am
  • JayhawkMike wrote:There are far far more examples of players that came in, sucked off the bat and then were out of the league. To cherry pick the exceptions doesn’t make Penny likely to be one.


    It also doesn’t stop him from being one of the all time greats. Go #20! I wanna see him break out this weekend.


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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:29 am
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:There are far far more examples of players that came in, sucked off the bat and then were out of the league. To cherry pick the exceptions doesn’t make Penny likely to be one.


    It also doesn’t stop him from being one of the all time greats. Go #20! I wanna see him break out this weekend.


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    Agreed, I think if given the opportunity Penny could shine this weekend. Carson is great, Davis is good, but haven’t seen them get that long touchdown run like other RBs in the league. Penny could be that guy.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:30 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:
    quadsas wrote:Hes nowhere near where Carson is right now. I honestly don't wanna see him in the game at all, even if he is a 1st rounder, Smack the bad tendencies out of him in practice, and when he's ready, then play him.


    You can’t say that until he is given the same opportunity. We will find out soon enough.


    Dude....He was given that chance the first 2 weeks!

    17 carries 38 yards 2.2 YPC with longest run of 10 yards!!

    Why do you ride certain RB's coat tails (Lacey and now Penny) when the are covered in cow dung?

    The whole team blew chunks the 1st 2 games and to suggest that was his chance is a weak viewpoint.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:09 am
  • LudwigsDrummer wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:
    quadsas wrote:Hes nowhere near where Carson is right now. I honestly don't wanna see him in the game at all, even if he is a 1st rounder, Smack the bad tendencies out of him in practice, and when he's ready, then play him.


    You can’t say that until he is given the same opportunity. We will find out soon enough.


    Dude....He was given that chance the first 2 weeks!

    17 carries 38 yards 2.2 YPC with longest run of 10 yards!!

    Why do you ride certain RB's coat tails (Lacey and now Penny) when the are covered in cow dung?

    The whole team blew chunks the 1st 2 games and to suggest that was his chance is a weak viewpoint.


    Carson vs Denver 7 carries 51 yards 7.3 avg, 3 catches 28 yards
    Carson vs. Chicago 6 carries 24 yards 4.0 avg
    Yep, he sure "blew chunks" and Penny received the most carries those 2 games. And this is what Carson did his 1st 2 games as a rookie last year with a porous OL:
    At GB: 6 carries 39 yards 6.5 avg, 1 catch 10 yards
    vs SF 20 carries 93 yards 4.5 avg, 1 catch 7 yards

    I also find it interesting some people are critical of Carson and Davis because they "haven't broken a long TD" (as if this was a requisite for success) but are conversely sure Penny is quite capable of this, based on his apparent trememdous accomplishments thus far. And for the record Carson had a 30 yard run as a rookie and Davis a 37 yarder this year. Penny has a long of 15 so definitely keep touting that argument.

    But hey, Penny had great combine #s and was a 1st rounder so that's what important. And let us not dare judge him until the end of his contract... Hey, I hope the kid does contribute. As I said earlier he looks good on quick pitches and catching passes in the flare, but why no one is rooting for our likely starter today Davis to "break out" is odd. As if Davis at just 25 can't continue to improve as well?
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:17 am
  • He will get more touches today against the Rams and may begin to show something.

    With RBs sometimes even if talented they take time to get their new roles.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:01 am
  • JayhawkMike wrote:There are far far more examples of players that came in, sucked off the bat and then were out of the league. To cherry pick the exceptions doesn’t make Penny likely to be one.



    You are right. When a team picks it represents hope not a guaranteed starter. Statistically most will fail, even at pick 27 or whatever. The truth is the smartest people in the league dont know what Penny will do. We can guess then come back and say i told you so, but thats all it is a guess or you can be hopeful. I would rather be hopeful.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:43 am
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:There are far far more examples of players that came in, sucked off the bat and then were out of the league. To cherry pick the exceptions doesn’t make Penny likely to be one.


    It also doesn’t stop him from being one of the all time greats. Go #20! I wanna see him break out this weekend.


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    This.

    Many individuals are slow starters but finish up strong. On the other hand, there are those who gallop out of the gate but reach a plateau and are then passed up.

    Put me in the camp hoping to see Penny in breakout mode today. (Or at least feeling more comfortable).
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:46 am
  • Interesting that posters in this thread are completely ignoring the FACT that Penny was injured for the vast majority of the preseason. Maybe that is a reason for his "slow start" in his very first NFL season?
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:05 pm
  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:Interesting that posters in this thread are completely ignoring the FACT that Penny was injured for the vast majority of the preseason. Maybe that is a reason for his "slow start" in his very first NFL season?


    valid point


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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:03 pm
  • I know many here consider Marshawn Lynch the greatest Seahawk RB of all time, and I would tend to somewhat agree with that consideration, however:

    (1) Lynch's first season in Seattle was in 2010, after he had 4 seasons in Buffalo where he accumulated two 1000+ seasons in his first two years, averaging 4.0 & 4.1-YPC in those seasons, much less so in his 2-nd two years in Buffalo before being traded to the Seahawks.

    (2) Lynch's first season as a Seahawk, Lynch had a stat line of:
    165 carries for 573 yds., 3.47-YPC, 6-TD's, 3-fumbles and 21 receptions for 138-yds.

    (3) Talk at the time was that Lynch was dancing way too much and once he was convinced to hit the hole fast without the dancing (hesitation) his second season as a Seahawk he went off for 285/1204-yds and 4.22-YPC, he followed that up with three 1000+ yard seasons before he started to decline after the 2014 season, largely due to injuries.

    REF: http://www.nfl.com/player/marshawnlynch ... areerstats

    My point being...…The Seahawks need to allow Rashaad Penny the chance to do something similar because...…..…

    Apples to Apples, Lynch struggled in his first Seahawk season even though he was in his 4-th NFL year and having two 1000-yd. seasons to his credit, shouldn't Penny be allowed the same opportunity? Penny is in his first ever NFL season, missed most of the preseason with his hand injury, all while moving to an unfamiliar City, learning the play book, learning how to be a better blocker and he's in a RB rotation with more experienced RB's. SDSC to the NFL is a big jump, but not an impossible jump, once the learning curve is minimized and Penny gets acclimated to the Sunday grind. All good things will come in time. I see a RB that is learning every day and eventually he'll put it all together, then watch out.

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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:51 pm
  • Hi Haters
    Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:52 pm
  • Penny looking pretty non-bust like right now. 56 yds on 2 touches and a TD.

    Let’s hope it’s a sign of things to come.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:53 pm
  • Just going to say to all the Penny haters, take a seat!
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:00 pm
  • BleuEyedHawk wrote:Just going to say to all the Penny haters, take a seat!


    They will all be wearing his jersey next year.
    Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:12 pm
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    BleuEyedHawk wrote:Just going to say to all the Penny haters, take a seat!


    They will all be wearing his jersey next year.


    I hear you
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:40 pm
  • BleuEyedHawk wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:
    BleuEyedHawk wrote:Just going to say to all the Penny haters, take a seat!


    They will all be wearing his jersey next year.


    I hear you


    Problem was he was doing to well so Pete had to pull him. I somehow knew he would see the field until the 3rd. Wouldn’t want him to get into a rhythm.
    Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.
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Re: Rashaad Penny
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:55 pm
  • Penny is a big play waiting to happen you guys will see soon. I love Carson but he is too injury prone. Penny can take to the house just needs to establish the right playing weight.
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