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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:41 am
  • Own The West wrote:Penny’s only problem is he’s not the second coming of Barry Sanders, in week 5, of his rookie season, after missing half of training camp.

    We have a running game again! Our offense scores points again! Be happy!

    ...Or just complain some guy on our bench is not some other guy on our bench. Or that we should have drafted that one guy that’s doing well on another team in another system. Or that we didn’t have enough draft picks. Or that any of our draft picks that don’t make the pro bowl by year two are busts.

    If I wasn’t a fan of this team, I’d say let’s cut Penny so the whiners can watch him come into his own on another team, but then I suppose they’d just call our FO — that took a garbage team and turned it into a SB Winner — idiots and complain some more.

    Why is it that some people can’t draw a breath without finding something else to bitch about?
    :pukeface:


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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:46 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Not once have I said Penny was a bust or "completely written him off", and in fact I have yet to read 1 person saying they wrote him off completely. People are saying he was a poor pick for the 1st round because he is holding the bench down, appears slow and most don't believe a finger issue or missed training camp will slow a players speed down.


    Penny's pretty damn quick through the hole, it's after that I'm a little concerned.

    What makes Carson such a great back (and all good to great RB's) is his ability to break that first tackle and get to the 2nd level.

    I haven't seen Penny do this, he goes down at first contact far too often for my taste.

    Obviously very small sample size, and goes against all of his draft profile positives. Most of what I read and saw was that he was more like Lynch, physical tackle breaking type back.

    But yes, so far? Not worth a first round pick. You pick a RB in the first round, he better not only start right away, but be your primary back getting 1,000 yards a season right from the get go.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Not once have I said Penny was a bust or "completely written him off", and in fact I have yet to read 1 person saying they wrote him off completely. People are saying he was a poor pick for the 1st round because he is holding the bench down, appears slow and most don't believe a finger issue or missed training camp will slow a players speed down.


    Penny's pretty damn quick through the hole, it's after that I'm a little concerned.

    What makes Carson such a great back (and all good to great RB's) is his ability to break that first tackle and get to the 2nd level.

    I haven't seen Penny do this, he goes down at first contact far too often for my taste.


    Obviously very small sample size, and goes against all of his draft profile positives. Most of what I read and saw was that he was more like Lynch, physical tackle breaking type back.

    But yes, so far? Not worth a first round pick. You pick a RB in the first round, he better not only start right away, but be your primary back getting 1,000 yards a season right from the get go.


    Agree. Penny reminds me of "Top heavy Turbin" who had a massive upper body yet the wind of an arm wave seemed to bring him down at times. It's a balance issue, and why beast mode was who he was. He ran with a wide base and rarely could be knocked off balance by anything other than a full head of steam or square head on hit.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:41 am
  • T-Hawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Would Hernandez be that big of an upgrade? We're currently playing a back up at guard that just moved to the left side on the fly and we just ran for 190, and have 3 straight weeks with a 100+ yd rusher for the first time in 6 years.

    Our two guards are rent-a-players. Fluker, and Sweezy are career journeymen who are good at one thing: runblocking. Fluker has been highly inconsistent over his career, and Sweezy is also a journeyman who has injury issues. Procic has some promise, but aside from him we really have no young offensive lineman that are viable. All of our guys are living on borrowed time save for Britt or maybe our RT if he can pull his head out of his you know where.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:12 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    T-Hawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Would Hernandez be that big of an upgrade? We're currently playing a back up at guard that just moved to the left side on the fly and we just ran for 190, and have 3 straight weeks with a 100+ yd rusher for the first time in 6 years.

    Our two guards are rent-a-players. Fluker, and Sweezy are career journeymen who are good at one thing: runblocking. Fluker has been highly inconsistent over his career, and Sweezy is also a journeyman who has injury issues. Procic has some promise, but aside from him we really have no young offensive lineman that are viable. All of our guys are living on borrowed time save for Britt or maybe our RT if he can pull his head out of his you know where.


    And Davis is also a career journeyman, and Carson is coming off a big injury. Guard and RB were both areas of need, both were addressed, and now both are a strength.

    If we drafted Hernandez instead and he couldn't crack our starting lineup yet due to our other 3 guards outplaying him, would you write him off as a bust after 5 games?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:50 pm
  • I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:08 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?


    Mark Ingram, behind Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles as a rookie.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:23 pm
  • Steven Jackson started as technically the 4th RB, although he got the second most carries by season end. Larry Johnson was third string, got called out publicly by his coach and didn't get hardly any touches until 2 guys got injured ahead of him.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:31 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?


    Not a lot.

    Curiously I was doing my research to see if I could actually find any 1st Round Running backs that were 3rd on the Depth Chart and moved onto to be great. I couldn't find much honestly but what I found was interesting and encouraging.

    Not all running backs are created equal and many do turn out to be flops but I grabbed a few of the better known backs that were drafted in the 1st Round since 2000.

    Running backs like; Larry Johnson, Jonathan Stewart, Steven Jackson, Shaun Alexander, to name a few were drafted in the first round and all drafted fairly late, with the exception of Stewart who was taken with Pick 13. The rest, Pick 27, Pick 24, Pick 19.

    All of these backs didn't start right away and were stashed away on their rosters. In fact then coach of KC, Dick Virmiel, didn't even want to draft Larry Johnson. Each sat behind someone else. Priest Holmes to Larry Johnson. DeAngello Williams to Jonathan Stewart. Marshal Faulk to Steven Jackson. Ricky Watters to Shaun Alexander.

    Each of these young players didn't have the best performances their first year. Some had flashes and others felt like they were going to be duds, however each of them came into their own when they started their second year, most taking or given the starting job by then. Many had to sit behind the vets to learn and get their NFL legs before even performing.

    Rashaad Penny was picked 27th over all and is now a back up in waiting behind two vets. We knew coming into this season that Carson was gonna get the role of lead back and Davis has been performing.

    Now this isn't to say that Penny will develop like any of the named players. Some 1st Round backs either have it or they don't. Some hit the ground running. Some take time. Some fail. But there is a small correlation of interesting data, so who knows?

    I'm willing to let Penny sit and learn behind Davis and Carson there is no rush to get him out onto the field at this time.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:39 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?


    To address the first part of this, yes, you are right, Hernandez would probably be starting and we probably wouldn't have signed Sweezy.

    My issue is that Spin Doctor keeps trashing the Penny pick and saying Hernandez should've been drafted, but guard is actually a solid unit on our team and Hernandez wouldn't be much of an improvement. So, if we had drafted Hernandez, is our team really in a better overall state than we are currently?

    Right now we can withstand an injury to both RB and Guard. If we drafted Hernandez and not Penny, we would not be in a state to withstand an RB injury. If we went RB later, who do you want to cast off that we drafted? Keep in mind every draft pick we made is still with the team.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:22 pm
  • Hmmm. Penny is:
    -slow
    -came into camp out of shape
    -not hungry
    -used to seeing this FO blow early picks.
    -did I miss anything?

    Seems to me the, "what did I say comment" don't fly because it sounds like these comments say draft bust
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:14 pm
  • truehawksfan wrote:Hmmm. Penny is:
    -slow
    -came into camp out of shape
    -not hungry
    -used to seeing this FO blow early picks.
    -did I miss anything?

    Seems to me the, "what did I say comment" don't fly because it sounds like these comments say draft bust


    Runs a 4.4 at 220 lbs. No evidence that he was out of shape. He put on weight, but that was likely intentional. This is how false rumors begin.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:50 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Carson a 7th rounder, Davis a 4th rounder, Adrian Foster was undrafted. Mark Ingram was a first rounder also and we could go on and on and on about 1ST busts. So by your objectivity, every Receiver we bring in that is a draft pick should be able to walk in and take Baldwins spot on the roster, same can be said for every 1st round QB that we bring in or 2nd rounder since Wilson is a third rounder.


    Pete wants Penny hungry, Penny has skills, needs confidence and a chance, needs to adapt to NFL speed for his cuts, he is a different type of runner then Carson and Davis. If there is a back on the roster that resembles what Alexander did it is Penny as far as running, Penny just has a much more complete game then Alexander ever did.



    Yeah I figured no reply since you want to use one example to fit your argument but when you pull in other aspects that don't support it the Ostrich comes out.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:50 pm
  • T-Hawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?


    To address the first part of this, yes, you are right, Hernandez would probably be starting and we probably wouldn't have signed Sweezy.

    My issue is that Spin Doctor keeps trashing the Penny pick and saying Hernandez should've been drafted, but guard is actually a solid unit on our team and Hernandez wouldn't be much of an improvement. So, if we had drafted Hernandez, is our team really in a better overall state than we are currently?

    Right now we can withstand an injury to both RB and Guard. If we drafted Hernandez and not Penny, we would not be in a state to withstand an RB injury. If we went RB later, who do you want to cast off that we drafted? Keep in mind every draft pick we made is still with the team.


    Yeah, but Hernandez is a young, cheap player under club control for years. Guards also play at a higher level for longer than RBs, usually.

    Steven Jackson was great as was Larry Johnson. I'm not that high on Mark Ingram tbh, but he has been productive. I would hope Penny can be better than Ingram. I still think we should have taken a pass rusher instead, but oh well.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:21 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Not once have I said Penny was a bust or "completely written him off", and in fact I have yet to read 1 person saying they wrote him off completely. People are saying he was a poor pick for the 1st round because he is holding the bench down, appears slow and most don't believe a finger issue or missed training camp will slow a players speed down.


    Penny's pretty damn quick through the hole, it's after that I'm a little concerned.

    What makes Carson such a great back (and all good to great RB's) is his ability to break that first tackle and get to the 2nd level.

    I haven't seen Penny do this, he goes down at first contact far too often for my taste.

    Obviously very small sample size, and goes against all of his draft profile positives. Most of what I read and saw was that he was more like Lynch, physical tackle breaking type back.

    But yes, so far? Not worth a first round pick. You pick a RB in the first round, he better not only start right away, but be your primary back getting 1,000 yards a season right from the get go.

    Agree with the above.

    Would also add that all one had to do to be suspicious of his YAC hype was watch his college highlight tape on YouTube. Some outmatched lb or corner would get a finger on him around his excellent blockers and penny would go for 50. Carson and Davis have more broken tackle highlights in 2 games than penny's entire highlight reel.

    Always HATED when that YAC stat was quoted to suggest he'd fit in behind crappy blocking. Penny's only hope is our line continues to block well because he does have speed and shiftiness if he is hardly touched.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:27 am
  • hawk45 wrote:
    Always HATED when that YAC stat was quoted to suggest he'd fit in behind crappy blocking. Penny's only hope is our line continues to block well because he does have speed and shiftiness if he is hardly touched.


    Unfortunately with what I've seen so far with Penny I'd have to agree with this assessment..........which means he's more of a change of pace back, and not a primary back.

    But we'll see, many more years to see what Penny can bring. Just not very excited right now that we spent a #1 on him with so many other glaring needs on this roster.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:44 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Carson a 7th rounder, Davis a 4th rounder, Adrian Foster was undrafted. Mark Ingram was a first rounder also and we could go on and on and on about 1ST busts. So by your objectivity, every Receiver we bring in that is a draft pick should be able to walk in and take Baldwins spot on the roster, same can be said for every 1st round QB that we bring in or 2nd rounder since Wilson is a third rounder.


    Pete wants Penny hungry, Penny has skills, needs confidence and a chance, needs to adapt to NFL speed for his cuts, he is a different type of runner then Carson and Davis. If there is a back on the roster that resembles what Alexander did it is Penny as far as running, Penny just has a much more complete game then Alexander ever did.



    Yeah I figured no reply since you want to use one example to fit your argument but when you pull in other aspects that don't support it the Ostrich comes out.


    Not sure who that comment was directed towards but receivers typically take a while to get going whereas it's more common for RBs to hit the ground running so to speak.

    RBs are also much less valuable than receivers (the NFL agrees, RBs are the lowest paid of any offensive position) so spending a first round pick on an RB comes with heightened expectations because they are more replaceable.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am
  • While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact. That is when he is at his most elusive and tackle breaking. He’s a 230 lbs freight train going 20 mph, who can cut and has vision. It’s just going to take him time to put it all together.

    I and some others expected this when he was drafted and were criticized for it by people like Seymour. Now those people are parroting our criticisms but think he has no chance to improve? That’s ridiculous.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:00 am
  • I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:02 am
  • doso wrote:I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?


    Definitely. Gives Lockett a breather, as well.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:12 am
  • doso wrote:I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?


    That was Pete's plan when we drafted Penny, not sure what happened.

    Maybe Pete's worried about Penny's health returning cause he needs him in either/or Davis or Carson get hurt during a game.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:53 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.


    There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

    Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

    It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

    I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:09 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.


    There should be no learning or developing with a 1st round RB. It's probably the ONLY position where this is the case.

    Maybe some pass-pro and route running? But no, you draft a RB in the first round, he's your bell cow back, not a 3rd stringer that's not even seeing the field after 5 games.

    btw, I totally get why Pete and John picked Penny at the time of the draft. Three straight years of revolving door often injured RB's, with Carson coming off a major leg injury. So the need was there.

    Doesn't mean Penny can't be our primary back in the future, but make no mistake, where he was picked is why he and others are frustrated with his lack of production so far this season.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.


    There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

    Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

    It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

    I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.


    Carson's injury prone status has been with him since college. If I remember correctly his two first years in college were marred with injury. Rob over at Seahawksdraftblog has talked about it a few times, hence one of the reasons why Penny was drafted because Carson, though a workhorse by nature, couldn't be trusted due to his college history and what happened in 2017 with a broken leg.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:39 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:Carson isn't the exception. The history of the NFL is full of running backs that are productive as low round picks, even right away in some cases. We're seeing two of them right now in Royce Freeman and Lindsay over in Denver. Two really productive backs in last years draft were taken in the 3rd round (Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara). Our Chris Carson was also productive in the games he played as a 7th round pick. Hell, the Broncos under Shannahan regularly turned nobodies into stars, that was their MO.


    History actually tells you the higher you were selected at RB the better your success rate in the NFL will be. Plenty of studies on it.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:04 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I find it very hard to believe Hernandez wouldn't be starting over Sweezy or Fluker at one of the guard spots and they probably wouldn't even have signed Sweezy if they had Hernandez, who has been graded very well by PFF so far.

    The Melvin Gordon comparison makes sense in that he wasn't good his first year, but he was at least starting. Can anyone name a first round pick RB who was a third stringer his first year and went on to be great?


    Mark Ingram, behind Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles as a rookie.

    Pierre Thomas is not that great of a running back, he is decidedly mediocre, Mark Ingram took many years to finally come into his own, and Darren Sproles is not a traditional RB, he is a Reggie Bush type of player that rotates all around the field, not a feature back.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:09 pm
  • doso wrote:I say give him more touches returning the ball. Maybe that will get him going?

    We already tried that. He had even touches with Carson going into week three, and he looked like garbage.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:35 pm
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:While he adjusts to the speed of the game, learns to be more decisive, and continues to develop physically, the best way to use him right now would be to find plays that allow him to build up a head full of steam before initiating contact.


    There's something wrong when you have the 18th pick and this is the limited scenario you have for the player you end up selecting 1st to possibly be successful.

    Did Carson need time to develop? Time to learn to be decisive? Time to develop physically?

    It's interesting there's been double standards on this board for certain players. Many on here after just 4 games in Carson's career, labeled him "just an average back-hasn't been nor never will be a bell cow, etc" Or because he injured his ankle running hard and had an injury in HS and like many RBs had an injury in college, labeled him "injury prone" but because Penny suffered an injury, it's now "he was held behind because of the finger injury-just wait til he's healthy, etc."

    I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.


    Always loved Carson, so I wasn’t one of those people.

    Penny should not have been a first round pick. At the same time, he has the potential to develop into a very good player over time. Both of these things can be true.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:11 pm
  • I suspect and speculate the train of events were:

    1. Draft - OTA
    Penny had a lot of success in college,
    He surveyed his competitors of Carson, a 7th rounder that was 'injury prone'. Davis, a castoff from 9ers. Both sounded underwhelming. Penny assumed that he was going to be the savior for Hawks' running game if not offense.
    Penny was complacent, enjoy $ from his rookie contact, and guess what, didn't train hard and got heavy.

    2. OTA
    Penny couldn't measure up to Carson, in turns of conditioning. Coaches started pushing him, but that savior assumption persisted. OTA was OTA, come training camp? let me show Pete and Carson, he assumed.

    3. TC
    Penny still couldn't measure up to Carson and Davis, then his fingers got broken, which ended this TC early.
    Slow turn around in his savior mentality, but still guessing he will out perform Carson and Davis come game time.

    4. PS
    Didn't have much of a preseason due to injury.

    5. Season
    Frustration started! Lack of achievement led to less playing time follow with negative press. Witnessing Carson and Davis' success, Penny ought be a bit scared by now,

    SO yes, Pete is right. Penny's frustration could be VERY GOOD, if Penny is mentally tough and competitive. By now, his post draft savior mentality out to be total gone. If he can leverage his frustration into working super hard, he might, just might be lift the Hawks to a different level.

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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:49 pm
  • I think we can just face the facts; the Seahawks are not good at drafting good durable running backs and keeping them here. Below are some examples. Does not include undrafted free agents

    2017
    7th round - Chris Carson
    2016
    3rd round - C.J. Prosise
    5th round - Alex Collins*
    7th round - zac brooks
    2015 none
    2014
    7th round - kilo small
    2013
    2nd round - Christine Michael
    6th round - Spencer Ware*
    2012
    4th round - Robert Turbin*

    * released and with another team
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:48 pm
  • Saquon Barkley is first round talent according to almost everybody and he clearly is. Those same people say you run Lynch. Then there’s a very small bunch that says Penny has potential and were excited to burn a first round pick on him. These are the same people that think a pass was a good call.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:09 pm
  • Penny has an interesting style.

    He's not someone with a lot of lateral quickness and he doesn't have the leverage of a guy with a low center of gravity.

    I think his gifts are a) his size, b) acceleration from mid-to-top speed, c) soft hands, and d) his ability to pick a line.

    What I mean by d) is most of his big runs are straight or have subtle course corrections, and I don't mean that in a bad way. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. I think he has really good vision and spacial skills, and he can calculate on the fly the best trajectory for running to daylight given the distance, direction, and speed of all of the other objects in his field of vision. In college he turned good (5-10 yard) runs in to home runs with regularity. The big question now is can he still do that now that everyone else is faster.

    I personally think he's the type of runner who can rack up huge yardage numbers behind a line that can consistently get him decent yards before contact. He's a poor man's Eric Dickerson. He'll never be a guy like Marshawn who can make something out of nothing, but with good blocking I think he can rack up 100-yard games with regularity.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:37 pm
  • Where a guy is drafted means nothing Tom Brady just as one of hundreds of example's . What does matter is 4.6 YPC as long as Carson is playing at this level and Penny isn't Carson is going to start period and that's the way it should be.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:41 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:
    I for one certainly hope Penny can contribute and will improve. He's got 5 years after all. But the number of excuses for him and contradictory logic in this thread used to warrant his 1st round status is remarkable.


    There should be no learning or developing with a 1st round RB. It's probably the ONLY position where this is the case.

    Maybe some pass-pro and route running? But no, you draft a RB in the first round, he's your bell cow back, not a 3rd stringer that's not even seeing the field after 5 games.

    btw, I totally get why Pete and John picked Penny at the time of the draft. Three straight years of revolving door often injured RB's, with Carson coming off a major leg injury. So the need was there.

    Doesn't mean Penny can't be our primary back in the future, but make no mistake, where he was picked is why he and others are frustrated with his lack of production so far this season.

    Dead on with this post.

    Understood the pick, not discounting the possibility he turns into a feature back, but that position in the first round carries expectations for very good reasons and so far he's not living up to what we've seen from a much lower draft pick in Carson.

    Nobody's giving up on Penny but the frustration is 100% warranted, as is the disapproval with where he was drafted.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:14 am
  • Third year??? ru serious ???maybe they should of given the " BOZ' more time too. LOL
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:18 am
  • Carson & Davis will be a top ten RB tandem this year...Penny will be a situational RB.IMO
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:25 am
  • We have 3 healthy running backs.. Someone is going to feel like the third wheel. :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:08 am
  • Top RBs in this league don’t always come out of the gate as all pros. OJ Simpson rushed for 697, 488, and 742 yards in his first three years respectively. When he retired from football he was at the time the number 2 overall rusher behind Jim Brown.
    Shaun Alexander had 313 yards rushing in his first season and finished just shy of 10,000 yards. OJ was the overall number one draft pick and Shaun was the number 19 pick.
    Rashad Penny had an injury in preseason and missed three games. By the time he has become healthy there are two guys ahead of him who have been contributing extremely well. To write him off now is not only premature it’s shortsighted.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:08 pm
  • He was the best overall running back on the field today... looked much stronger than past weeks and is quickly acclimating to the speed of the pro game.

    Carson still has the edge in strength and knowing the running lanes, but Penny already catches the ball and runs in space better.

    The naysayers will be shutting their mouths by the end of the season and braying on about how they were on the bandwagon all along.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:15 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:acclimating to the speed of the pro game.


    This. He’s still a bit tentative in his decision-making, missing out on a few yards here and there and probably a big hitter or two. He is showing improvement and this game could be a turning point for his confidence. Once he can regain his decisiveness I think his talent will start to shine.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:15 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:He was the best overall running back on the field today... looked much stronger than past weeks and is quickly acclimating to the speed of the pro game.

    Carson still has the edge in strength and knowing the running lanes, but Penny already catches the ball and runs in space better.

    The naysayers will be shutting their mouths by the end of the season and braying on about how they were on the bandwagon all along.

    :roll: He looked like hes looked all year. Dont fool yourself with blind passion. How many people does it take to bring Penny down? One......hand. Sorry, he's still a mile behind...and he didnt look anything like the "best back on the field" today lol..Just a crazy statement
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:20 pm
  • tonyseahawk wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:He was the best overall running back on the field today... looked much stronger than past weeks and is quickly acclimating to the speed of the pro game.

    Carson still has the edge in strength and knowing the running lanes, but Penny already catches the ball and runs in space better.

    The naysayers will be shutting their mouths by the end of the season and braying on about how they were on the bandwagon all along.

    :roll: He looked like hes looked all year. Dont fool yourself with blind passion. How many people does it take to bring Penny down? One......hand. Sorry, he's still a mile behind...and he didnt look anything like the "best back on the field" today lol..Just a crazy statement


    Totally agree with tony here. Carson was by far the best RB today.

    Penny was good in his role though.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:22 pm
  • Carson is the best back on the team; it’s not close. Davis is the 2nd best back on the team. Then you have Penny, who is still developing, and possibly McKissic, who will be eligible to return in the next three weeks.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:25 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:Carson is the best back on the team; it’s not close. Davis is the 2nd best back on the team. Then you have Penny, who is still developing, and possibly McKissic, who will be eligible to return in the next three weeks.



    But, but, Prosise is a tilt the field guy and you don't even list him :stirthepot:
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:26 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Carson is the best back on the team; it’s not close. Davis is the 2nd best back on the team. Then you have Penny, who is still developing, and possibly McKissic, who will be eligible to return in the next three weeks.



    But, but, Prosise is a tilt the field guy and you don't even list him :stirthepot:


    Team could waive Prosise (probably a waived injured that would revert to IR) in the next three weeks to make room for McKissic.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:35 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Carson is the best back on the team; it’s not close. Davis is the 2nd best back on the team. Then you have Penny, who is still developing, and possibly McKissic, who will be eligible to return in the next three weeks.



    But, but, Prosise is a tilt the field guy and you don't even list him :stirthepot:


    Team could waive Prosise (probably a waived injured that would revert to IR) in the next three weeks to make room for McKissic.


    I beg to differ, I am ok with three backs, Carson, Davis and Penny. OK with Prosise to IR, then use the extra to sign a DL, we need help there.

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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:36 pm
  • I wouldn't call Penny the "best RB on the team" after today. That's just hype.

    But he did have a good game, playing in garbage time, made some good decisions, is picking up speed to NFL standards.

    Hey that screen pass was a thing of beauty. :2thumbs:

    Carson is the starter. Davis is great as a fill in back. Penny is improving. I'm happy with our RB crew right now. McKissic will add some speed when he gets back, so things are looking good.
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:47 pm
  • sutz wrote:I wouldn't call Penny the "best RB on the team" after today. That's just hype.

    But he did have a good game, playing in garbage time, made some good decisions, is picking up speed to NFL standards.

    Hey that screen pass was a thing of beauty. :2thumbs:

    Carson is the starter. Davis is great as a fill in back. Penny is improving. I'm happy with our RB crew right now. McKissic will add some speed when he gets back, so things are looking good.


    The great thing about the 4 backs you listed is all of them can do everything without tipping your play call hand, McKissic isn't a power guy but has shown the moxie to pick a gap running inside and won't make a living there but can do it, as Penny gains confidence and learns that you go all out every play and see's more NFL speed and his decisions are more decisive and become instinct we will have a nice problem on our hands and a headache for the opposition.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:51 pm
  • sutz wrote:I wouldn't call Penny the "best RB on the team" after today. That's just hype.

    But he did have a good game, playing in garbage time, made some good decisions, is picking up speed to NFL standards.

    Hey that screen pass was a thing of beauty. :2thumbs:

    Carson is the starter. Davis is great as a fill in back. Penny is improving. I'm happy with our RB crew right now. McKissic will add some speed when he gets back, so things are looking good.

    Still looked woefully underwhelming. Stat wise he looked good, but he still doesn't get it. He was playing in garbage time when the defense was worn out, through massive holes.

    Things I saw: Slow to recognize holes. Lots of hesitation. He turned what could have been big gains into five yards. The second problem is he has not demonstrated that he has the ability to make the first guy miss. On one run he had a massive hole, including blocking in the second level. A defender got one hand on him and brought him crashing down to the turf after 6 yards.

    As an NFL back you need to be able to run after contact, or make the first person miss in order to be a difference maker. Penny ran through some obviously large holes against a terrible team in garbage time, and he still didn't look the part.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:08 pm
  • Feel like I have to preface every penny post with "not giving up on him" and it's getting old, but at this moment he gives us nothing taking a hand off that Christine Michael would not give us and I'm dead serious. He is utterly mundane and he's running behind a good OL.

    He has good hands. I...expect a bit more from a first round back than being a change of pace guy at most (and I'd rather see Davis on third down).

    If we had Michaels penny would be the fourth best back on the team.
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